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[nomis]

I was being dramatic on the first response for humor purposes rather, i guess. Never thought we'd get an actual discussion going (I still think of that audience when i look at her design though).

The discussion i was trying to have wasnt that much about this character in the game itself bur rather how out of place she feels in a series like Bioshock, and how i didnt expected that and how it could go down as an example of woman in gaming in general. Like i said i dont think her boobs are gonna change my personal experience with the game, but i still dont see the point. I just dont like watching trailers for the game with 50 youtube comments saying "dem tits", "sexy girl elizabeth *_*" and shit like that, its odd, uneasy and not necesary regarding what we know so far.

Ellis Kim said it better than I could, which is that Bioshock has inherently had character models with exaggerated features, and it's odd that you find her out of place. She's beautiful because that's the point... she's the princess locked in a tower. If she is the "object of desire" for players of the game, then it's appropriate since the player's nemesis is also single-mindedly trying to get her back.

Infinite doesn't need to break the mold of female character design, because the mold is already broken. There are plenty of female characters listed that don't all have huge breasts. They apparently have a different agenda with the design in their game, and I don't personally find it inappropriate.

 

[Discotheque]

the character looks like shit, but I like the cosplay picture quite a bit.

don't even know what to think of this game, it's got cool design (aside from that shite character) but Bioshock 1 wasn't even that special aside from the setting. Levine's best is behind him.

 

[Glass Rebel]

well idk man, i dont think there's a god, no one designs us, there's no purpose for us to look the way we do, lol. That's what i was trying to say.

Haha I know man, I'm just kidding. And I agree somewhat with you but the direction this thread has been taken (I don't blame you but it's just people getting angry at opinions at this point) might not exactly be what the OP had in mind when he created it. I don't get to decide that so I try to poke fun at it

 

[[Nintex]]

Nice cosplay they should hire her to do some ads for the game or something.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

This was to good not to post.

Source (via Reddit): http://www.flickr.com/photos/58826350@N02/6069208143/in/photostream/

God this reminds me of how much I fucking hate the Bioshock character designs. Nobody looks like a real human. Also, that girl is really hot.

 

[Salsa]

Ellis Kim said it better than I could, which is that Bioshock has inherently had character models with exaggerated features, and it's odd that you find her out of place. She's beautiful because that's the point... she's the princess locked in a tower. If she is the "object of desire" for players of the game, then it's appropriate since the player's nemesis is also single-mindedly trying to get her back.

I agree in that it could be appropiate, i just havent seen anything so far that sold me on that regard. A girl that the main character desires doesnt need those kinds of features. But sure, we are all discussing unreleased material here.



and another thing: i think they got mixed wires with their intentions there and that could be the rason. Maybe those features have their own purpose while at the same time the big eyes and face serve another one (as people mentioned her expressions and whatnot), and that's why she looks so weird and out of place. I think a more realistic women wouldnt have the same kind of impact and it wouldnt seem as "odd" with those boobs.

 

[Slayven]

Man if I ever win the lottery I am funding a Powergirl game just to watch messageboards burn.

 

[nomis]

God this reminds me of how much I fucking hate the Bioshock character designs. Nobody looks like a real human. Also, that girl is really hot.

Heaven forbid a game studio not strive for absolute photo realism. Do you carry the same "fucking hatred" of Pixar's human designs?

 

[Knox]

I somewhat agree with what you're saying Salsa, but I think it's smart design to make her this way. It's the same reason romantic interests in movies are always attractive women, it helps the audience empathize. But in games it's a lot harder to create an attractive character, especially an attractive face. So it makes sense to use a character's body to draw the player to the character in the desired way.

They could have tried another way, but in the end Irrational is a big budget game developer looking for mass appeal. Bioshock isn't Transformers, but if I was to make a movie parallel I would say Inception, and there was cleavage in that too.

 

[Sickboy007]

Brb, adding particle effects.

lol

 

[ResidentDante]

Anybody know how old this Elizabeth character is supposed to be in the game?

 

[Zeliard]

20

 

[Chinner]

WHY IS THERE NO TRISS COSPLAY?

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

Heaven forbid a game studio not strive for absolute photo realism. Do you carry the same "fucking hatred" of Pixar's human designs?

If you're talking about animations with aesthetics similar to Tangled (don't know who actually made that) then yes. I think the characters look dreadful. Now my post gets quoted by 20 people booing me or whatever, I don't care. They don't have to be photorealistic, it's just that this specific dis-proportioned style looks terribad.

WHY IS THERE NO TRISS COSPLAY?

Didn't a pornstar pose nude dressed up like Triss as part of the promotion for TW2?

 

[Ellis Kim]

@SalsaShark Your issue is with the audience you associate yourself with, the very same that posts on GAF with nothing to say other than either "would" or "dat ass." Do you hold that against GAF as well?

Alyx is actually a really bad example of female representation in games, as her purpose is to essentially be a pandering and the designated love interest. She's hardly fleshed out, if at all, and the empathy you feel is designed. Not to mention the immediacy of the modding community's reflexive nature with HL2 post-leak's deluge of nude Alyx mods and poses in sexually suggestive positions.

A change in Elizabeth's design wouldn't make this behavior any different. To think like so is shortsighted.

I do agree that the developers and the actual game can turn this around, and ive clearly stated that before, so idk why youre holding that against me.

Its your lack of faith in Irrational and Levine that disturbs me.</vader>

 

[ResidentDante]

20

Then I can let my eyes fall on those sweet puppies again

 

[StuBurns]

I can't say I 'get' cosplay personally, I don't think it's impressive or anything, but that girl is hot, so there's that.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

I can't say I 'get' cosplay personally, I don't think it's impressive or anything, but that girl is hot, so there's that.

Really? I think it's like any hobby, that there are different degress of effort, and you're showing off what kind of things you can make, how far you're willing to go to look like this character you love (in most cases).
I don't see it as much different to any other hobby really.

 

[Shig]

Heaven forbid a game studio not strive for absolute photo realism. Do you carry the same "fucking hatred" of Pixar's human designs?

Cartoony designs are fine if they're done well.

BI's aren't done well. They're straddling this weird line where they want heavy stylization but won't fully commit to a leap from realism, and they've found exactly the right place in that middle ground where the result just looks off-putting and creepy. If they'd just move the slider a bit more in one direction or the other, it'd make a world of difference.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

'sup?

 

[StuBurns]

Really? I think it's like any hobby, that there are different degress of effort, and you're showing off what kind of things you can make, how far you're willing to go to look like this character you love (in most cases).
I don't see it as much different to any other hobby really.

Well she happens to have a very defined jaw line and a similar nose, she happens to be attractive, half the work here is just being naturally beautiful, most women could dedicate years to the costume and regardless of it's quality would never look similar.

I'm not saying people are wrong to take up cosplay or anything, if it's pleases them that's great, I just find it hard to judge the effort of the costume when it's ultimately so much a question of the things about the person they can't control.

 

[Ellis Kim]

^ I still claim her as my wife

If you're talking about animations with aesthetics similar to Tangled (don't know who actually made that) then yes. I think the characters look dreadful. Now my post gets quoted by 20 people booing me or whatever, I don't care. They don't have to be photorealistic, it's just that this specific dis-proportioned style looks terribad.

The sensory homunculus says hello. Tangled is one of the few caricaturized styles that fits well within the 3D animation medium for humans that don't suffer from uncanny valley.

Do you want more uncanny valley? Be my guest. Modern Warfare and Dead or Alive are waiting to be your friends.

 

[Gintamen]

But videogames arent real life, all design has a purpose, unlike.. well life.

wrong.

 

[nomis]

If you're talking about animations with aesthetics similar to Tangled (don't know who actually made that) then yes. I think the characters look dreadful. Now my post gets quoted by 20 people booing me or whatever, I don't care. They don't have to be photorealistic, it's just that this specific dis-proportioned style looks terribad.

Tangled was done by Disney Animation, but no not Pixar specifically. I haven't seen Tangled so I don't have an opinion on the extent of their designs' cartooniness.

Cartoony designs are fine if they're done well.

I agree.

BI's aren't done well.

I agree that we disagree.

 

[Ellis Kim]

There's a certain farce that hasn't been directly addressed yet surrounding this desire for a more realistically proportioned Elizabeth: Bioshock Infinite is a first person shooter with presumably very few camera-control wrenching cutscenes.

All "good" representations of "realistic" women in games have been ones with cutscenes with directed cameras, or set cameras in third person. Elizabeth's head size/facial proportions are designed to accommodate that. Its a specific design decision that clearly intends for establishing a relationship between the player and Elizabeth even during (and especially during) hectic firefights. The visibility of her expression is obviously key in such circumstances for their design intentions.

 

[StuBurns]

All "good" representations of "realistic" women in games have been ones with cutscenes with directed cameras, or set cameras in third person.

I totally disagree. Alyx is about as good, if not better than any other faux female in gaming.

 

[Raziel]

God this reminds me of how much I fucking hate the Bioshock character designs. Nobody looks like a real human.

yeah, i think its called an "art style"

 

[Salsa]

@SalsaShark Your issue is with the audience you associate yourself with, the very same that posts on GAF with nothing to say other than either "would" or "dat ass." Do you hold that against GAF as well?

oh c'moooooooooooooooooooooooooon give me a break here hahahah

of course i post "would" or "dat ass" and i associate with those that do, im a man that likes women! we are talking about a different issue here, one that is related to games.

As far as the rest of your post, i just think we agree to disagree. All is on the table, in the end i just wanna play this damn game already. Fucking announcing it two years before release arghhh.

wrong.

how so?

 

[Chinner]

^ I still claim her as my wife

lets be honest, and i'm not going to be harsh to you because this applies to me, but if she ever met us she would just look straight through us for the men we are - emtpy, devoid and lacking any interesting quality. it'd be better for her to go out with someone who she actually liked and who is interesting than go out with us.

we're never going to be happy, take a lesson from me and don't get stuck in a dream.

 

[Tomat]

I think this has already been posted in the cosplay thread a few times.

 

[Gintamen]

how so?

Natural selection

 

[Zeouterlimits]

lets be honest, and i'm not going to be harsh to you because this applies to me, but if she ever met us she would just look straight through us for the men we are - emtpy, devoid and lacking any interesting quality. it'd be better for her to go out with someone who she actually liked and who is interesting than go out with us.

we're never going to be happy, take a lesson from me and don't get stuck in a dream.

Just don't tell her we play Magic The Gathering and we're set.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

yeah, i think its called an "art style"

Orly? And here I thought it was just Irrational's artists being incapable of drawing realistic looking people. Next you'll be telling me that Picasso was drawing people like that deliberately!

This is going to come as a huge shock, but it's possible to not only dislike an art style, but hate it. I don't mind the Art Deco stuff in the original bioshock and some of the environments looked very nice, but the characters that inhabit it look abysmal.

 

[Ellis Kim]

oh c'moooooooooooooooooooooooooon give me a break here hahahah

of course i post "would" or "dat ass" and i associate with those that do, im a man that likes women! we are talking about a different issue here, one that is related to games.

As far as the rest of your post, i just think we agree to disagree. All is on the table, in the end i just wanna play this damn game already. Fucking announcing it two years before release arghhh.

exhibit A

I just dont like watching trailers for the game with 50 youtube comments saying "dem tits", "sexy girl elizabeth *_*" and shit like that, its odd, uneasy and not necesary regarding what we know so far.

I just want you to stop having large sweeping assumptions based on nothing but fear.

I totally disagree. Alyx is about as good, if not better than any other faux female in gaming.

You see Alyx in two manners: Downtime with talking heads (lol zoom key) and silhouettes (e.g. "3rd-person" peripheral action).

 

[ResidentDante]

 

[Salsa]

I just want you to stop having large sweeping assumptions based on nothing but fear.

actual women =/= videogame women


I dont fear, i just become disappointed

the industry has much bigger issue than boob size, we can all agree on that

 

[Ellis Kim]

lets be honest, and i'm not going to be harsh to you because this applies to me, but if she ever met us she would just look straight through us for the men we are - emtpy, devoid and lacking any interesting quality. it'd be better for her to go out with someone who she actually liked and who is interesting than go out with us.

we're never going to be happy, take a lesson from me and don't get stuck in a dream.

Oh Chinner Here's a free hug, buddy.

 

[BurntPork]

Yep, I just fell in love.

 

[Raziel]

Orly? And here I thought it was just Irrational's artists being incapable of drawing realistic looking people. Next you'll be telling me that Picasso was drawing people like that deliberately!

This is going to come as a huge shock, but it's possible to not only dislike an art style, but hate it. I don't mind the Art Deco stuff in the original bioshock and some of the environments looked very nice, but the characters that inhabit it look abysmal.

yes, your sarcasm is all very rich and everything, except all your initial post says is that you "fucking hate it" because they "don't look like real humans" ; which is such a simple-minded thing to express, there was really no way for me to know that you were aware of "art styles" or that one was being exhibited with bioshocks human designs.

 

[Snkfanatic]

lets be honest, and i'm not going to be harsh to you because this applies to me, but if she ever met us she would just look straight through us for the men we are - emtpy, devoid and lacking any interesting quality. it'd be better for her to go out with someone who she actually liked and who is interesting than go out with us.

we're never going to be happy, take a lesson from me and don't get stuck in a dream.

Good lord man you have horrible self esteem this is not the first post of yours like this :\

 

[SpacePirate Ridley]

The real girl is gorgeous. The character game design and the girl is a thousand times better that the character design of the first Bioshock, thank god, so im not gonna complain this time because I also really like it, I dont ee the problem with the big eyes, its only an aesthetic, and I dont think it resembles any loli anime charater in the slightest.

Its like the change from Overlord I to Overlord II with the character design, and it feels good.

 

[Ellis Kim]

actual women =/= videogame women


I dont fear, i just become disappointed

the industry has much bigger issue than boob size, we can all agree on that

That equation isn't as simple as we'd all like to believe, yourself included. The ramifications of female representation in games is undeniable, but going the polar opposite direction in the name of diversification, let alone going extremely neutral (i.e average/bland), is not the solution, and far from it.

Good lord man you have horrible self esteem this is not the first post of yours like this :\

Zelda broke his heart, man.

 

[Snkfanatic]

Two more shots of her

This is what I imagine Salsa wants to do the person who created the character

 

[Salsa]

That equation isn't as simple as we'd all like to believe, yourself included. The ramifications of female representation in games is undeniable, but going the polar opposite direction in the name of diversification, let alone going extremely neutral (i.e average/bland), is not the solution, and far from it.

The issue here is that big boobs = average/bland when it comes to gaming at this point.

Im not talking about going in the opposite direction in the name of diversficitation, im saying that going in the opposite direction is the BEST WAY to show what you're trying to do in a medium where character design is king. Fastest way to comunicate something in this medium is to see it. The point would get across more easily. Dont get me wrong, if Levine pulls it off and she becomes far, far more than eye candy and the press and audience in general can get beyond that, then im all for it. I just dont think it'll make the same kind of impression.

 

[ResidentDante]

Can I marry her? Sweet baby Jesus she is pretty!

 

[daycru]

SalsaShark's war on breasts is not one I will support. Good day.

 

[Snkfanatic]

Can I marry her? Sweet baby Jesus she is pretty!

She is on Deviantart by the way if anyone wants to see her other cosplay. Her name on there is Ormeli

 

[Data West]

The issue here is that big boobs = average/bland when it comes to gaming at this point.

Im not talking about going in the opposite direction in the name of diversficitation, im saying that going in the opposite direction is the BEST WAY to show what you're trying to do in a medium where character design is king. Fastest way to comunicate something in this medium is to see it. The point would get across more easily. Dont get me wrong, if Levine pulls it off and she becomes far, far more than eye candy and the press and audience in general can get beyond that, then im all for it. I just dont think it'll make the same kind of impression.

Those boobs aren't even that big compared to most in games... Also, you know girls willingly wear low-cut shirts all the time, right?

 

[Salsa]

Those boobs aren't even that big compared to most in games...

sure not, if those boobs were ivy-sized i think everyone would be on my side, lol.

Also, you know girls willingly wear low-cut shirts all the time, right?

Again, game design =/= life, every thing about character design has a meaning and reason behind it. This is an important character, they just dont give her big boobs and a low-cut shirt "just because", everything about the boobs and their size is completely intentional and meaning to catch your eyes. What the game is yet to prove is if there's a reason for that relating to her character and story.

 

[[Nintex]]

every thing about character design has a meaning and reason behind it.

Haha