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[HTK]

I get that, i just think that people buying consoles expecting them to get them closer to high end pc experiences, then complaining when compromises have to be made on new high end games, seems a little silly. Like, the ps5 pro might be killing it at first with performance comprable to a 3090 or 3080, but then a year or two after that new gpu’s might come out that moves the base line even higher. Suddenly that ps5 pro cant run every new game at 4k 60 fps with rtx. I just cant help but feel that the complexity of game visuals and performance is outpacing consoles. Like the ps5 is still a relatively new system and we have games like returnal running at 1080p, as well as forspoken and jedi survivor at sub hd resolutions. I do think that as fsr gets better it will off set alot of these issues, but fsr seems to be advancing at a snails pace compared to dlss.

None of that matters because the consoles are baseline of game development, very small % of users actually own the highest end GPUs so no game will really be developed or optimized for a "4090". PC can get advanced and ahead but if it's a small % of people and it's expensive, and games are not optimized/developed for it....who gives a shit then? Look at Jedi Survivor, 4090 can't get a consistent 60FPS like wtf?

Meanwhile and I hate the Horizon games, but that new DLC looks better than anything I've seen on any platform at this point...

 

[Umbasaborne]

None of that matters because the consoles are baseline of game development, very small % of users actually own the highest end GPUs so no game will really be developed or optimized for a "4090". PC can get advanced and ahead but if it's a small % of people and it's expensive, and games are not optimized/developed for it....who gives a shit then? Look at Jedi Survivor, 4090 can't get a consistent 60FPS like wtf?

Meanwhile and I hate the Horizon games, but that new DLC looks better than anything I've seen on any platform at this point...

Since the last patch ive been consistently well above 60 fps with everything maxed

And i agree, when sony, microsoft, and nintendo optimize for their platforms the results are pretty spectacular regardless of hardware. Horizon is the best looking thing out right now. Its lighting may not be as advanced as cyberpunk, but it does not need that because it looks so great. The problem is that most third party developers wont take the time to really optimize for those platforms like first party teams do, so at the end of the day, hardware that can brute force great results due to shear processing power will almost always have an advantage in the realm of third party titles.

 

[rofif]

I get that, i just think that people buying consoles expecting them to get them closer to high end pc experiences, then complaining when compromises have to be made on new high end games, seems a little silly. Like, the ps5 pro might be killing it at first with performance comprable to a 3090 or 3080, but then a year or two after that new gpu’s might come out that moves the base line even higher. Suddenly that ps5 pro cant run every new game at 4k 60 fps with rtx. I just cant help but feel that the complexity of game visuals and performance is outpacing consoles. Like the ps5 is still a relatively new system and we have games like returnal running at 1080p, as well as forspoken and jedi survivor at sub hd resolutions. I do think that as fsr gets better it will off set alot of these issues, but fsr seems to be advancing at a snails pace compared to dlss.

Exactly!
Leave the constant performance chase for pc and let consoles be consoles. These people can just get a pc and shut up. We already have a cacophony of modes

 

[LordOfChaos]

Where da Slim

I don't particularly feel the need for a Pro, it doesn't really feel like anything is tapping out this gen yet. I guess it could give 60fps + RT effects at higher resolution at the same time where it's a big sacrifice now.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

Exactly!
Leave the constant performance chase for pc and let consoles be consoles. These people can just get a pc and shut up. We already have a cacophony of modes

Yeah I just don't agree with you

Just because someone prefers consoles doesn't mean they shouldn't at least have the option for more power that is not forced on everyone else.

 

[diffusionx]

Where da Slim

I don't particularly feel the need for a Pro, it doesn't really feel like anything is tapping out this gen yet. I guess it could give 60fps + RT effects at higher resolution at the same time where it's a big sacrifice now.

It's always a big sacrifice. Like the devs could just as easily push out the RT and end up right back to where they started performance-wise. And they wouldn't be pushing it out to as much as you probably think because it's so resource intensive. Like you aren't going to go from "minimal RT and shitty performance" like you have now in say Jedi Survivor to "path tracing like CP2077 and 4k 60fps". The gains are not going to be huge.

 

[rofif]

Yeah I just don't agree with you

Just because someone prefers consoles doesn't mean they shouldn't at least have the option for more power that is not forced on everyone else.

But that option is going against what consoles are.
It's like "yeah I like bikes but I wish it had 4 wheels" you know.
There will be more options when ps6 comes out

 

[HTK]

If console generation was 4-5 years then I can understand the argument against it, but if it's 7, 8, or 9 years then it's needed for sure.

 

[Zuzu]

Is Sabin meant to be an Xbox Series X Pro? Dang, it would be wild if Sony releases a PS5 Pro but Xbox doesn’t release its own Pro equivalent.

 

[DosGamer]

I love games and I LOVE new game consoles.. but honestly, I think its a bad idea. There are still PS4 versions of games coming out now and we have had the PS5 for a while. Why jump up to another console that will have extremely limited games made for it that will actually take advantage of the power? I think I may stop getting the pro model and wait for the 6.

Imagine if Microsoft tried this???? with the way the xbox looks now, its like Sega all over again.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

With all of the issues PC ports are having a PS5 pro with proper RT would sell way better than the PS4 pro and props to Sony for potentially launching it 4 years later instead of 3 for a proper upgrade I'm getting excited can't wait for the leaks

 

[Crispy Gamer]

If console generation was 4-5 years then I can understand the argument against it, but if it's 7, 8, or 9 years then it's needed for sure.

Yeah some of us tech guys just need to buy something lol it would feel awful to use the same system for 8 years especially knowing Sony can sell us an upgrade I don't see the harm in that.

 

[Rea]

If you want this gen to go to 2028 a PS5 Pro is necessary or they will start to lose people to PC which was the whole reason for a PS4 Pro.

The whole reason for Ps4 pro is to cater 4k TV owners.

 

[NT80]

Is Sabin meant to be an Xbox Series X Pro? Dang, it would be wild if Sony releases a PS5 Pro but Xbox doesn’t release its own Pro equivalent.

But there are already 2 distinct Xbox's. I don't know how they could have a 3rd one in the same gen.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

The whole reason for Ps4 pro is to cater 4k TV owners.

What HTK said is from Sony's own mouth, it was made to stop people switching to the PC

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-explains-how-ps4-pro-may-help-keep-people-fro/1100-6443431/

 

[diffusionx]

With all of the issues PC ports are having a PS5 pro with proper RT would sell way better than the PS4 pro and props to Sony for potentially launching it 4 years later instead of 3 for a proper upgrade I'm getting excited can't wait for the leaks

What's proper RT? Because even a 4090 is hacking it for the most part, and you're not getting that with a PS5 Pro. I doubt you'd even get 3080 tier RT with it, and 3080 tier RT still kind of sucks (speaking from experience).

 

[Crispy Gamer]

What's proper RT? Because even a 4090 is hacking it for the most part, and you're not getting that with a PS5 Pro. I doubt you'd even get 3080 tier RT with it, and 3080 tier RT still kind of sucks (speaking from experience).

How about "better" RT and at higher frames

 

[Matt_Fox]

For those of us who game on both a PS5 and an XSX, a PS5 Pro is an opportunity for Sony to steal market share.

It will become the console of choice for multi plats.

 

[diffusionx]

How about "better" RT and at higher frames

How do you quantify "better" RT and how much is it worth? I'm not saying this to be an ass, I am just saying this more to outline that this is a really unclear selling point and the benefits are not visible in the same way the PS4 Pro "get this if you are playing on a 4K TV" sales pitch was.

 

[TheRedRiders]

Is Sabin meant to be an Xbox Series X Pro? Dang, it would be wild if Sony releases a PS5 Pro but Xbox doesn’t release its own Pro equivalent.

RGT did make a video on it, you can check it but personally I didn't have the attention span to make sense of his ramblings. I think Sabin was some sort of Xbox APU with a focus on ML but was canned at some point.

I think it's likely we'll see an Xbox Pro, the last thing they want is Sony to be ahead of them in the hardware space.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

For those of us who game on both a PS5 and an XSX, a PS5 Pro is an opportunity for Sony to steal market share.

It will become the console of choice for multi plats.

If Sony is indeed making a Pro (which as of right now I am 99.9% sure they are) then Xbox knows about it and highly unlikely they wont bring a pro model to market as well

Xbox knew everything about the PS5 except its final form

 

[HTK]

What HTK said is from Sony's own mouth, it was made to stop people switching to the PC

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-explains-how-ps4-pro-may-help-keep-people-fro/1100-6443431/

I knew I wasn't crazy, thanks for the source HeisenbergFX4

But of course Rea they will market the machine also for 4K because it was capable to run some games natively but majority never reached 4k native but did reach 4k checkerboarded.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

How do you quantify "better" RT and how much is it worth? I'm not saying this to be an ass, I am just saying this more to outline that this is a really unclear selling point and the benefits are not visible in the same way the PS4 Pro "get this if you are playing on a 4K TV" sales pitch was.

Lol I'm not trying to sell it to you "better" obviously means it can perform RT tasks better than the base PS5 I'm sure Cerny can explain that when the time comes for a reveal

 

[diffusionx]

Lol I'm not trying to sell it to you "better" obviously means it can perform RT tasks better than the base PS5 I'm sure Cerny can explain that when the time comes for a reveal

Obviously I understand it, but how do you sell it, and how does it actually end up in games? You're asking people to spend $600, maybe $700 on this new hardware to get what, slightly more accurate lighting and shadows, maybe, in some games, in some modes? Yea I don't know. And then it comes down to performance. Like I said, you could easily push out the RT and kill performance on any piece of hardware, including a 4090 where path traced RT in CP2077 runs at a whopping 16fps.

I am sure that Sony is working on this, but anyone who thinks the PS5 Pro will be giving you amazing RT and great performance is way too optimistic.

 

[onQ123]

Is Sabin meant to be an Xbox Series X Pro? Dang, it would be wild if Sony releases a PS5 Pro but Xbox doesn’t release its own Pro equivalent.

I tried to have that discussion

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/in-t...-because-there-is-already-series-s-x.1654173/.

 

[ksdixon]

656hrdvvfty5jy

 

[ksdixon]

Come of the electronics for a bit and relax

 

[-Zelda-]

I expect a PS5 slim with a bigger faster SSD but nothing else

 

[Wooxsvan]

 

[Crispy Gamer]

Obviously I understand it, but how do you sell it, and how does it actually end up in games? You're asking people to spend $600, maybe $700 on this new hardware to get what, slightly more accurate lighting and shadows, maybe, in some games, in some modes? Yea I don't know. And then it comes down to performance. Like I said, you could easily push out the RT and kill performance on any piece of hardware, including a 4090 where path traced RT in CP2077 runs at a whopping 16fps.

I am sure that Sony is working on this, but anyone who thinks the PS5 Pro will be giving you amazing RT and great performance is way too optimistic.

All of your points are valid but at this stage all we can do is wait and see right? Before the generation started nobody expected this generation to have games with RT reflections at 60 but look at Miles and Ratchet. Hopefully a mid-gen refresh will give us RTGI in more games instead of the 2 or 3 we have now and if RT still isn't feasible then we'll still have way more games targeting 120 with a Pro model

 

[AncientOrigin]

If Sony is indeed making a Pro (which as of right now I am 99.9% sure they are) then Xbox knows about it and highly unlikely they wont bring a pro model to market as well

Xbox knew everything about the PS5 except its final form

How industry Spionage?

 

[mckmas8808]

yep exactly.
The consoles are great this gen. The hardware is very good.
If devs get used to new hardware like if it was a smartphone market, then why would they ever bother optimizing if users can get a more powerful console. Look at the pc! "but it runs good 46fps on a 4090"

They will optimize for the PS5 and just scale other things up on the PS5 Pro.

 

[Shubh_C63]

What would be the point of PS5 Pro.
No way its going to be more than 4K so what would the marketing buzz word be ?

Give me cheap PS5 Slim.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

Modest increase in Tflops, significant RT hardware increase, significant increase in cache and larger RAM would go a long-long way to improve the gaming experience without putting too much strain on the developers. With the new manufacturing nodes I am not sure the cost per chip increase would be that high.

Makes a lot of sense to me.

Better VR performance being an obvious good case for the PS5 Pro to exist.

 

[SegaSnatcher]

I speak as a third-world gamer and for those of us who are not paid in dollars or euro. I really really really hate pro consoles. They defeat the whole purpose of console gaming, IMHO, that is to have a single performance target to aim and optimize for. I just bought a PS5, the console doesn't even have a steady stream of next-gen only experiences, most of its games are anchored on the last gen. It might be great for someone who can afford to buy a new console every 2/3 years, but for most of the world that is a hard pillow to swallow, you may argue that I'll be just fine having a base console, but that's not what this is about, it's like being a second class citizen where in the past you know your investment you place you in the high-end tier of the consoles for at least 5 years.

Then you must feel like a second class citizen in regards to every tech. Why single out consoles when new phones, computer parts, tablets, cameras, etc get announced and released every year? Yet, you have a huge issue with a Pro variant releasing 3 - 4 yrs after the base console, so explain to me how that is at all a reasonable take? Your PS5 won't stop working when the Pro gets released, so why do you give a crap if someone can buy a superior console? If it bothers you so much sell your current PS5, save some money and invest in the better option. If you can afford a base PS5 you can afford a freaking PS5 Pro 4 yrs later. If you were truly hurting for money you would not be wasting it on video games.

 

[X-Wing]

It's bollocks I'm sure.

For a 2024 release of a PS5 Pro, it would mean Sony was designing this thing at a time when the semi-conductor industry was suffering severe component scarcity and they didn't even know that they'd be able to get enough components for the base PS5 to meet the demand.... yeah, right!

The past 2 yrs of supply chain chaos have all but killed any plans for a PS5 Pro or XSX1X.

It might be bollocks but your rationale is wrong. Supply constraints don’t stop them from doing research…

 

[DaGwaphics]

What makes me so confident is technology and prices. There is nothing easy to market like "4k" with ps4 pro.
The console still have to be around 200w power probably. This would be a small upgrade.
Let the devs optimize

Consoles have traditionally been in that range, but it isn't like they couldn't go 300 or 350w. You'd just end up with cooling more similar to a large GPU, with a few good size fans. I think you could build a marketing campaign around the console running games better than the base model. It would probably be a situation similar to the last-gen refreshes, where most users would continue to buy the base but performance focused users would have an option.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

It might be bollocks but your rationale is wrong. Supply constraints don’t stop them from doing research…

I don't get that sentiment of these companies just stopping R&D because of a chip shortage

At least Xbox started putting together ideas of their next console before the current one even releases.

Once the current one is going down the assembly line internally they are on to the next product

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

The former SIE president Andrew House said this back when PS4 Pro launched:

"I saw some data that really influenced me," House told The Guardian. "It suggested that there's a dip mid-console lifecycle where the players who want the very best graphical experience will start to migrate to PC, because that's obviously where it's to be had. We wanted to keep those people within our ecosystem by giving them the very best and very highest [performance quality]. So the net result of those thoughts was PlayStation 4 Pro--and, by and large, a graphical approach to game improvement."

Hopefully Jimbo and rest of the team will deliver a Pro console sooner rather than later.

 

[Desprado123]

Just like PS4 Pro was wasted this will be as well.

PS5 has seriously not been properly utilized. Giving example of UE4 port is the worst case as engine it self is very old now, UE5 already launch and no games has been launch of that.

We are still having cross gen title and not there with current gen.

 

[Nicktendo86]

Not interested in a pro, hell I still play on my ps3. I just want a cheaper, slimmer version please.

 

[DaGwaphics]

I get that, i just think that people buying consoles expecting them to get them closer to high end pc experiences, then complaining when compromises have to be made on new high end games, seems a little silly. Like, the ps5 pro might be killing it at first with performance comprable to a 3090 or 3080, but then a year or two after that new gpu’s might come out that moves the base line even higher. Suddenly that ps5 pro cant run every new game at 4k 60 fps with rtx. I just cant help but feel that the complexity of game visuals and performance is outpacing consoles. Like the ps5 is still a relatively new system and we have games like returnal running at 1080p, as well as forspoken and jedi survivor at sub hd resolutions. I do think that as fsr gets better it will off set alot of these issues, but fsr seems to be advancing at a snails pace compared to dlss.

That isn't a realistic scenario for a "pro" console though. What you describe is inevitably what happens to the base console over time. The advantage of the "Pro" system in this instance is that all the software is ultimately still constrained by the base model. So while developers could add an extra special quality mode and keep a 30fps PS5 game at 30fps while making it more beautiful, the unlocked modes we get quite often now are going to automatically run a lot better on the pro box utilizing the PS5 settings.

Last gen the refreshes kept the CPU basically in line with the base consoles, that took fps increases off the table for the most part and those systems were all about the extra detail and resolution. Those bonuses were retained throughout the entire generation. If they bumped the CPU clocks substantially along with a GPU increase, you might have a choice of getting an fps boost at similar fidelity to the base console or holding the fps for more detail/resolution/RT/etc. Whatever benefits could be offered would exist for the entire generation though.

If the PS5 is running something at 720p, than maybe the Pro model is limited to 1440p. But, it is still doing its job there, offering users a better experience than the PS5.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

It might be bollocks but your rationale is wrong. Supply constraints don’t stop them from doing research…

No. You're wrong.

The development of a PS5 Pro is not research. It's a multi-billion dollar, multi-year engineering design undertaking. For a Pro to launch in 2023/24 the design would have to have started when there was no clarity on the potential end of component scarcity. I highly doubt they would have continued with the project under the premise that they'll be potentially cannibalizing components from their base console (read: higher volume).

 

[SlimySnake]

Looking at the fact that AMD is skipping 7800, I am not sure we are going to get 2x more performance like we did with the PS4 Pro. We might get 2x more tflops but the performance might fall short of a full 2x boost.

6600xt is a 10.6 tflops GPU. 6950xt is a 24 tflops GPU. And the 7900xt is a 40 tflops GPU that consumes over 300 watts on its own. Safe to say that it cannot be put in a console with a power budget of 200-230 watts like the PS5.

The 6950xt might be possible but it will require far more expensive vram and a more sophisticated cooling solution than the giant heatsink Sony put in the PS5. I suspect $600 for this 24 tflops console.

That said, I dont think it will be enough unless Cerny can fix AMD's RT performance. AMD Promised better RT performance in their RDNA3.0 cards but its mostly the same. Cerny was rumored to have implemented a better RT solution in the PS5 but we now know that to be a false rumor. I really hope he's rethinking AMD's design and adding some custom hardware to accelerated RDNA 3.0's RT performance even further.

Same goes for better machine learning hardware so they can use DLSS style upscaling. Cerny pioneered the use of checkerboarding in 2016 with the Pro, and I really hope hes got another Ace up his sleeve because FSR simply isnt good enough as we are seeing in Star Wars. And since FSR is upsaling star wars from 1080p, the PS5 Pro will likely upscale from 1440p offering better results but the same damn artifacts and ghosting.

 

[SlimySnake]

No. You're wrong.

The development of a PS5 Pro is not research. It's a multi-billion dollar, multi-year engineering design undertaking. For a Pro to launch in 2023/24 the design would have to have started when there was no clarity on the potential end of component scarcity. I highly doubt they would have continued with the project under the premise that they'll be potentially cannibalizing components from their base console (read: higher volume).

Multi-billion dollars? Nah, its just a bunch of engineers like Cerny cooped up in an office playing with AMD's toys piggybacking off of THEIR R&D which undoubtedly started as soon if not before they shipped the RDNA 2.0 cards in 2020. The 7000 series proves that.

Cerny took the Rx 480, made some additions to it, and put it in the PS4 Pro with near identical Jaguar CPU, cooling solution, and slightly faster clocked GDDR5. He will pick whatever he wants out of their lineup and thats where the actual costs come in, but billions? Just for that? nah.

 

[Matt_Fox]

If Sony is indeed making a Pro (which as of right now I am 99.9% sure they are) then Xbox knows about it and highly unlikely they wont bring a pro model to market as well

Xbox knew everything about the PS5 except its final form

I think it depends on how chastened the Xbox division has become since the ABK deal collapse and news of poor hardware sales in comparison to Sony.

It's clear their ambition is - or was - to dominate the subscription and cloud gaming space (and I think any smart fella realises that friction-free cloud gaming is the future of this industry, not clunky consoles and wires everywhere).

Will Microsoft still have the appetite to put out a Pro style console in 2024?

 

[ReBurn]

Just like PS4 Pro was wasted this will be as well.

PS5 has seriously not been properly utilized. Giving example of UE4 port is the worst case as engine it self is very old now, UE5 already launch and no games has been launch of that.

We are still having cross gen title and not there with current gen.

PS4 Pro was amazing. It wasn't a waste at all. It was the best way to play the later PS4 games.

What we're seeing now is probably about as good as it's going to get on current gen hardware. 6 to 8 years between console generations is just too long now with how fast GPU features are evolving. Current gen only titles still release with the performance vs. quality toggle and that's not likely to change by permanently leaving last gen behind. As more developers move to Unreal and other commercial cross-platform engines I think we're likely to see less console optimization than ever.

 

[RJMacready73]

I honestly can't see a PS5 Pro making me want to buy one based on how visually stunning games are already on the base PS5, do I need 4K/60 RT, nah I'm more than happy with 1440p-4k/40fps RT, not to mention that things gonna come out £5-600+ with no real jump in the games other than higher faster frames, now if it meant VR getting a huge boost I'd be all in but I can't see it

 

[SolidQ]

Cerny was rumored to have implemented a better RT solution

Why do you think it's Cerny solution? Maybe it's RDNA4

 

[mdkirby]

If it exists I’ll buy it. But that leak says less than nothing.

“Sony are working on a ps5 pro, and my insider knowledge says it will be more powerful than the regular ps5!!!!”