• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

F1 fans - is Hamilton better than Schumacher?

Who's better?

  • Hamilton

    Votes: 36 28.8%
  • Schumacher

    Votes: 74 59.2%
  • One of the pre-90s greats who F1 hipsters somewhat rightly idolize. Gooo Fangio!

    Votes: 15 12.0%

  • Total voters
    125

Tschumi

Banned
Jul 4, 2020
2,559
2,968
590
Japan
So, recently Lewis Hamilton surpassed Michael Schumacher's career wins record, and is now sitting at 92 career wins - a record I'm sure he'll extend.



Prior to Hamilton grabbing this in his umpteenth season of total dominance over F1, Schumie had held the record with 91 wins for decades.

So, here's my thinking.

I don't think Hamilton is all that great, I just think we're living in an age in which single teams are somehow dominating the field for years on end - inflating the win records of whoever their top driver is. Before Hamilton it was Vettel with Red Bull and, frankly, I'm not entirely sure why Vettel didn't keep going with Red Bull after his breez'y 4 championships. (I'm sure some of you out there could tell me - I guess it had something to do with their time with Renault ceasing to bear fruit? i could be hella wrong)

Granted, Hamilton has a rep for being arguably the best racer out there at this time. Which is to say when the chips are down and it's down to getting every extra second outta your car in difficult conditions you can rely on Hamilton to come out on top - or thereabouts - relative to his peers.

But does that make him a great racer, like Schumacher or his contemporaries/exemplars? Better than the best British racers? Better than Mansel, Stewart, et al?

I think F1 in general these days is a bit bland. It's hard for me to follow it - I've said as much before - since I think the seasons are foregone conclusions by and large and even the order of the grid is relatively invariable. There might be exciting young drivers out there, but they're not in the best cars so they have no impact on results, it seems.

So, anyway, I'm asking F1 fans (who implicitly know a lot more than I do) to set me straight - is Hamilton as good as his record suggests?

ps. went a bit wild on the bold text this time, just a little messin' around, my bad xP
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: lock2k
Oct 26, 2018
17,390
24,192
795
I don't follow racing, but isn't a big part pf racing which ever driver gets the best cars? Half the job is done for you.

I remember Jacques Villabeuve in the late 90s winning and he was god here for a year. Then he left to some shitty BAR team, and half the races he didn't finish because his new team's car would bomb out mid way through the race.

Then Michael Schumacher would blow past him in his Ferrari.
 
Last edited:

godhandiscen

There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Mar 15, 2007
15,056
3,690
1,740

According to data the best driver is not the one who always wins. It looks that the last time the driver was the biggest factor, Fangio was the champion.
 

Men_in_Boxes

Member
May 31, 2020
4,373
8,636
530
I don't understand racing.

I was told only a small number of drivers can win due to funding. That their cars are literally faster than the competition. Once I heard that I lost respect for the drivers.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Tschumi

mclaren777

Member
Jan 15, 2009
7,444
38
1,095
Washington State
www.maximum-attack.com
Schumacher was obviously very talented, but he had everything handed to him on a silver platter.

Bridgestone was basically making tires for solely for Ferrari during the tire war and team orders were often employed to his advantage (including crazy things like taking the chassis from his teammates if it suited him).

Furthermore, Michael was a cheater and a poor sportsman. I actually find it disappointing when people say that he's their racing hero.
 

Can't decide

Member
Sep 11, 2018
699
1,619
430
The only way you'd be able to tell who the greatest racer is would be to get all drivers of all eras to spec race in identical machinery, I suppose Race Of Champions is as close as we'll ever get to that. I've always wished the FIA would build their own F1 car and hold a couple of spec races a year with them, then you'd get to see who's the fastest and who's the best at passing through a field of cars. May be the likes of Le Clerc, Verstappen or Russell would outperform Hamilton.

Of all of Schummy's controversies though, Hamilton has definitely been victorious at being the most insufferable bellend.
 

TGO

Member
Sep 5, 2007
10,961
10,995
1,580
UK
Can't really say, Schumacher's competitors are different to Hamilton's
In which way I don't know
Both are good is the only answer I can give 😕
 

Blitzmangoman

Member
Mar 26, 2020
455
1,124
370
The cars l are better now than before so I would think it is easier to win.
Schumi is better I guess. We will never know.
 

Mohonky

Member
Jan 19, 2007
11,902
1,717
1,585
You can debate it forever. Different eras, different cars, different competitors.

On Hamiltons side, sheer consistency and speed. It's not luck that top teams want you in their cars. You can argue all you want that Hamilton has never driven a Haas, but there's a reason for that. He has also had 3 WDC team mates and he beat 2 of them handily and matched the other one in his first year in the same car, that driver, Alonso, had also beaten Schumacher twice.......

Schumacher for all his wins, still has some blemishes on his record. To this day, it's believed the Benetton he drove had traction control all year round when it was banned. The argument that they weren't using it.....was just their word. Imagine how that would fly if they discovered tomorrow Merc had a means of activating it in Hamiltons car, people would call for blood. Schumacher was Ferrari, like there was no 'if one ahead in the Championship and the other is basically out we'll swap them' it was straight up 'Schumacher wins' as far as team orders were concerned. You also only need look at what he did to Villeneuve or his former team mate Rubens down the main straight of Hungary to know what sort of racer he was.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
Dec 9, 2013
11,633
5,498
785
It's not possible to make these comparisons, it's not a sport where everything is up to you and where the rules don't change for decades. It's also the machine you're in that's also extremely important. Hamilton and Schumacher had their successes in different eras of motorsport. One thing they have in common is that they're both unlikeable people. ;)
 

GymWolf

Member
Jun 11, 2019
14,821
21,490
615
Does hamilton has the same competition of schumacher??

I don't follow F1 anymore.
 

ruvikx

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
1,822
3,599
475
Does hamilton has the same competition of schumacher??

I don't follow F1 anymore.

Hardly anyone follows f1 anymore. It's been taken off free TV & the races themselves have been boring as hell for a long time now. Hamilton has statistics on his side & that's it. I mean who the hell will watch archive footage 20 years from now of Hamilton driving around in circles in the lead?

Schumacher meanwhile has the 1994, 95, 97, 98, 99 (yes, even with his accident where he broke a leg) & 2000 seasons where there were serious on track battles people remember. It's why Senna with his 3 titles will always be a legend, i.e. people remember the races & rivalries.

As the French idiom says, "to win without risk is to triumph without glory". That's a summary of Hamilton's 6 titles at Mercedes. Only his first title back in 2008 in the McLaren was memorable.
 

ruvikx

Banned
Jan 12, 2018
1,822
3,599
475
Schumacher had competition.

Also, Hamilton is a hypocritical BLM activist/bully (yep, pressuring other drivers to bend the knee before races) phony environmentalist social justice warrior douche who's made hundreds of millions of dollars thanks to Petronas & Mercedes Benz.

So on a human level, Schumacher crushes this guy.
 

captainraincoat

Gold Member
Nov 15, 2010
5,032
7,472
1,240
You can have a Bad driver in a great Car....or a Great Driver in a Bad car...one of these is Hamilton
Hamilton does not have that put you into the Barrier if I'm in front style that Shu did

Best driver on the grid at the moment would be Riccardo.
Best car on the grid are the Mercs
 

SaturnSaturn

Member
Oct 30, 2018
669
1,537
435
No, Hamilton is not even top 10 in skills of all time, even on todays grid you could put Gasly, Leclerc, Verstappen and Magnussen in a Merc and they would comfortably beat him 9 out of 10 times.

Hamilton also got beaten by Button and Rosberg to the championship.

The Mercedes has been unbeatable for years, its sucked all the joy out of the sport, you might then say "B..B..but the ferraris where the most powerfull" no they where not, out of Schumis time with Ferrari they had the best car maybe two years. FIA actually a effort to gimp the ferraris with the tyre change bridgestone shit in 2005, they make no such effort with Mercedes, in fact with they bend over backwards for Mercedes, just look at DAS steering that where allowed, its writen and decided that Hamilton will be a 8 time champ by Liberty media, and he will probably retire once the 2022 rule change comes that evens out the playing field, he would be utterly humiliated if he didnt.

Schumacher made Ferrari into a powerhouse again, the man was amazing at teambuilding, its more then you can say for Hamilton, had Schumacher stayed with Benetton in 96 he would have had 8 WC wins. Hell he would have 9 if he didnt break his leg one year. But no he went to a struggeling Ferrari and built it up with brawn and todt to a great powerhouse, thats makes him better then Hamilton no matter what.

Hamilton is a fucking whining fraud end of story.

Just look at his onboards the ammount of mistakes he makes during a race, if he was in any other car he would be a midfield driver
 
Last edited:

GeorgPrime

Bonus Member
Jan 9, 2020
2,733
3,292
550
Schumacher was a devil on the street. He even survived the Senna like crash he had back then and he lapped Mercedes so hard that Mika Hakkinen had to cry behind the lap fence once. Good times. My whole family was watching him everytime, now nobody watches it anymore because everything is boring.

Still sad that he lost everything saving a kid. A true hero. Schumacher.
 
Last edited:

SkylineRKR

Member
Jun 22, 2011
10,478
1,672
865
Holland
Hamilton is boring. Mercedes is boring. The gap is bigger than ever. Even Bottas is consistently second place, takes the odd win and mostly finishes ahead of Verstappen who is a much better driver. Hamilton always spouts the same drivel. I love this country, I love this crowd. Cardboard.

Mercedes ruining this sport, I do watch it, but always hope for a quick slip up by Mercedes which hardly ever happens anyway. I have to give it to Lewis that he's consistent. But what battles did he have? He had some great battles with Alonso when he was younger, and with Rosberg he had a team mate that actually beat him. The rest of his championships idk. Forgettable. Schumacher went to a lesser team at the time, and made them top tier again. He could stay at Benetton but he didn't. Yeah Schumi benefitted a lot from team orders, like how Rubens would let him through. But Hamilton simply gets shitty co drivers that play the second fiddle perfectly, like Bottas. He had a hard time with Rosberg, who I think isn't even a top tier driver.
 

Malakhov

Member
Jun 6, 2004
7,909
1,945
1,790
No, Hamilton is not even top 10 in skills of all time, even on todays grid you could put Gasly, Leclerc, Verstappen and Magnussen in a Merc and they would comfortably beat him 9 out of 10 times.

Hamilton also got beaten by Button and Rosberg to the championship.

The Mercedes has been unbeatable for years, its sucked all the joy out of the sport, you might then say "B..B..but the ferraris where the most powerfull" no they where not, out of Schumis time with Ferrari they had the best car maybe two years. FIA actually a effort to gimp the ferraris with the tyre change bridgestone shit in 2005, they make no such effort with Mercedes, in fact with they bend over backwards for Mercedes, just look at DAS steering that where allowed, its writen and decided that Hamilton will be a 8 time champ by Liberty media, and he will probably retire once the 2022 rule change comes that evens out the playing field, he would be utterly humiliated if he didnt.

Schumacher made Ferrari into a powerhouse again, the man was amazing at teambuilding, its more then you can say for Hamilton, had Schumacher stayed with Benetton in 96 he would have had 8 WC wins. Hell he would have 9 if he didnt break his leg one year. But no he went to a struggeling Ferrari and built it up with brawn and todt to a great powerhouse, thats makes him better then Hamilton no matter what.

Hamilton is a fucking whining fraud end of story.

Just look at his onboards the ammount of mistakes he makes during a race, if he was in any other car he would be a midfield driver
Verstappen is a much better driver than Hamilton, what he did in some races to try to stay with mercedes is unbelievable. I think he's the most talented driver out there right now as we speak
 
Last edited:

StonedRider

Member
Jan 9, 2015
385
211
470
Riga, Latvia
For me the greatest one will always be Senna.

About Ham vs Schumi, I think Hamilton is more talented driver, if we compare pure racing/quali speed. But Schumacher was a better team player and hard worker.

Also, Schumi had some controversial collisions with rivals in final races, while competing for a championship - 1994 and 1997. Ham is a cleaner racer. Yeah, I don't like his BLM activism, but it doesn't make him worse racer, I try to separate politics and sport.

But it's pointless to compare number of wins or championships in F1, because cars make a major difference. The only driver Hamilton should beat is his teammate, all others are irrelevant.
 

TTOOLL

Member
Mar 22, 2012
4,629
4,227
960
He's one of the most talented drivers to ever exist, but I can't stand the guy anymore because of his politics bullshit.

Comparing is hard because of different cars/regulations etc.

Anyway, in terms of talent Senna is still the number 1.
 

JimiNutz

Banned
Apr 15, 2007
12,471
5,984
1,680
London UK
I follow F1 but still don't pretend that I'm knowledgeable enough about the sport to be able to compare them properly - my understanding is that is pretty much impossible to compare properly due to advances in technology, different cars, different rules and regulations etc.

Hamilton has the records and is clearly an incredible driver. He's not particularly likeable but he holds the records and he's likely the best until someone else comes along one day and beats his records.
 
  • Like
Reactions: J-Roderton

TheMan

Member
Jul 31, 2006
8,508
1,092
1,555
As others have stated, it's really difficult to compare them directly because the rules change so much. Hell, even comparing them against their peers is hard because the cars can be so different in performance.

I'm surprised so many people find Hamilton unlikeable. What is it that irks you guys about him?
 

Gp1

Member
Sep 17, 2019
827
1,161
435
Senna and Michael definitely raced in a more contested era with better adversaries. Although both Hamilton and Schumacher drove more dominant cars (considering his rivals).

Hamilton rivals
Alonso (2 titles)
Vettel (4 titles)
Kimi (1 title)
Button (1 title)

Schumacher rivals
Hakkinen (2 titles)
Villenueve (1 title)
Alonso (2 titles)
Hill (1 title)
Senna (3 titles)

Senna rivals
Prost with FIA, Jean Marie Ballestre and the 1992 Willians (4 titles)
Mansell (2 titles)
Piquet (3 titles)
Schumacher (5 titles)

And in Senna's favor, he drove in a "dominant" car against Alain Prost and not with Barrichelo/Massa (both great drivers, but number 2 drivers nonetheless)

Senna is easily more talented than both imho, even winning less. If he had signed with Willians in 92 he would have won both 92 and 93 titles and would be a very competitive driver in 1994 after Willians "fixed" the FW16 after Imola.
The cars were much more demanding in that era, and he pulled things like the first lap in Donington 1993, Interlagos 1991 in a 1000hp monster with ONE gear and puta tacoing heel toeing the shit out of it and Monaco 1984/1988

That was straight out black magic.

Michael is second and Hamilton 3rd (both close)

It would maybe be better for the sport it they were all driving exactly the same car?
And had guns?

That would be called Nascar
 
Last edited:

UnNamed

18+ Member, acts like 12 year old console warrior
Dec 21, 2006
1,736
2,852
1,525
Somewhere in Bananaland
Schumacher took Ferrari when was in trouble and had no result, just 2 victories in 5 years, towards 5 world championships.

Without a doubt, Schumacher had higher peaks. Hamilton is much more constant, and a better human being.
 
Last edited:

xrnzaaas

Member
Dec 9, 2013
11,633
5,498
785
I wonder what a young gun like Gasly would do in Hamilton's Mercedes?
Gasly is a mystery. I don't think the explanation is that he improved heavily since he was fired from RBR. It's more likely that the way the Alpha Tauri drives suits him and that's why he's doing so well. So, in my opinion, he could be either brilliant or rubbish in a Mercedes.
 

veckrot

Member
Jan 9, 2020
600
2,548
350
Either Verstappen or Leclerc would kick his ass up and down the block with the same equipment. So, no.
 

The Hamburglar

but get my takes from clown world with Ronald
Mar 6, 2016
4,455
4,220
865
I’d love to see them compete today. Hopefully in January when shoemacker recovers