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Fable might have been scaled down due to engine issues and lack of wrpg expertise. Could release later than expected.

Amiga

Member
Highlights the importance of pre-production. It could make or break a project.
Before Guerrilla Games made HorizonZD they did a lot of work in pre-production to evolve their capabilities. Going from a corridor FPS to real time action open world, and from a liner game to open world mission based with multiple quest resolution paths. They changed their structure to adapt, hiring people from CDPR and Bethsaida.
 

Ozriel

Member
Highlights the importance of pre-production. It could make or break a project.
Before Guerrilla Games made HorizonZD they did a lot of work in pre-production to evolve their capabilities. Going from a corridor FPS to real time action open world, and from a liner game to open world mission based with multiple quest resolution paths. They changed their structure to adapt, hiring people from CDPR and Bethsaida.

But Playground has done the exact same thing in hiring extensively and blending experienced outside talent with long standing Playground veterans.

You…think Fable didn’t go through pre-production?
 

sinnergy

Member
But Playground has done the exact same thing in hiring extensively and blending experienced outside talent with long standing Playground veterans.

You…think Fable didn’t go through pre-production?
Only Sony studios do this 😜🤡🤣😱 /sarcasm
 
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Amiga

Member
But Playground has done the exact same thing in hiring extensively and blending experienced outside talent with long standing Playground veterans.

You…think Fable didn’t go through pre-production?

Pre-production can be badly planned and it causes failure in almost everything that follows. GG was a specific example of success. Sony did fail in other productions like GOW Ascension, the Order, Last Guardian, Days Gone.
 
Based on nothing .. Retro studios was named a poor fit before Metroid Prime released for example … all the media was also basically against them .. just saying .

Until we see some footage and information for the game I'd say its you making ignorant and uninformed comments on why PG is a poor fit.....geez. 😉

Err the very details in the OP make it clear Playground was a poor fit.

Do you guys just never read what the thread is about before posting?

Playground is clearly having problems with the game's development. The OP directly cites it being due to them lacking experience in making RPGs; i.e. something I've been saying all along.

I'm not even arguing the studio is doomed to fail. I'm arguing as a fan of the Fable franchise that I would have preferred MS put a more experienced, seasoned RPG studio on the project.

So I'm really not sure why so many goons in this thread are getting so triggered by what to me seems like common sense. Some of you Xbox fans behave so cultish, when others don't align with the hivemind narrative. It's fucking weird, I swear.
 
This was you when Colt was pushing hyper positive rumors about xbox




Now it’s negative rumors, Colt’s show is now a great place for factual reporting 😂
Now he has a clue, and is no longer ‘the king of spreading false information’.


It’s just $299 or $499 brah.

Wasn’t that his super patch tweet?
 

Ozriel

Member
Pre-production can be badly planned and it causes failure in almost everything that follows. GG was a specific example of success. Sony did fail in other productions like GOW Ascension, the Order, Last Guardian, Days Gone.

If you drew up a list of efficient and well run Studios, Playground games would be near the top.

I don’t think there’s any basis for doubting their ability to plan properly. Not when you consider their body of work.


Err the very details in the OP make it clear Playground was a poor fit.

Do you guys just never read what the thread is about before posting?

The ‘details’ from a random YouTube ‘insider’ with no prior track record of any credibility?

Playground is clearly having problems with the game's development.

Source: “I saw someone talk about it on YouTube so it must be true” 😂


So I'm really not sure why so many goons in this thread are getting so triggered by what to me seems like common sense.

Usually when people post ‘leaks’ from unverified ‘insiders’, the caveat is to take things with a pinch of salt. Not sure why you’re talking about ‘common sense’ when the sensible thing to do isn’t to base your entire argument over a story that has a very very high probability of being nonsense.


Some of you Xbox fans behave so cultish, when others don't align with the hivemind narrative. It's fucking weird, I swear.

“I believe In sketchy rumors and state confidently that Playground games can’t make a very good Fable game” is your position here, an illogical position which seems heavily driven by a long history of downplaying anything Xbox.

I am yet to understand why some of you do this.
 

Amiga

Member
If you drew up a list of efficient and well run Studios, Playground games would be near the top.

I don’t think there’s any basis for doubting their ability to plan properly. Not when you consider their body of work.

Not judging them because game is not out, scraping things and taking steps back is much better than releasing an unfulfilled vision. Hope it works out because I want to play something great.
 
Err the very details in the OP make it clear Playground was a poor fit.

Do you guys just never read what the thread is about before posting?

Playground is clearly having problems with the game's development. The OP directly cites it being due to them lacking experience in making RPGs; i.e. something I've been saying all along.

I'm not even arguing the studio is doomed to fail. I'm arguing as a fan of the Fable franchise that I would have preferred MS put a more experienced, seasoned RPG studio on the project.

So I'm really not sure why so many goons in this thread are getting so triggered by what to me seems like common sense. Some of you Xbox fans behave so cultish, when others don't align with the hivemind narrative. It's fucking weird, I swear.
You my simple friend are the one who is triggered. The thread details are without weight or merit as like I said we are yet to see the game in any shape or form. The game was announced under 2 years ago not a very long time given how long these games take to create, so stop with the bull and take a more patient approach 👍
 

Topher

Gold Member
Read the comment I responded to, it was how well organised and efficient GG are, while claiming PG have gone about this game all wrong.

Well no, that comment wasn't talking about GG at all. The one that post was responding to was so I get your point about that one. Some of us have used GG as an example of a studio who has successfully switched genres in defense of Playground.
 
Well no, that comment wasn't talking about GG at all. The one that post was responding to was so I get your point about that one. Some of us have used GG as an example of a studio who has successfully switched genres in defense of Playground.
And I think GG have and are doing an outstanding job. What's annoying me is the concern around this new Fable is pretty lightweight. Yes we have had some info which points to some problems but all games have issues. I'd rather wait to see the game before proclaiming PG aren't up to the task.
 

Topher

Gold Member
And I think GG have and are doing an outstanding job. What's annoying me is the concern around this new Fable is pretty lightweight. Yes we have had some info which points to some problems but all games have issues. I'd rather wait to see the game before proclaiming PG aren't up to the task.

100% agree. Playground has an impeccable pedigree, imo, and I think they will knock this out of the park. As I said earlier, this is just some guy regurgitating an earlier report to prop himself up as an insider. Just watching him gushing over having a "source" in the video was enough for me to dismiss him outright.
 
If you drew up a list of efficient and well run Studios, Playground games would be near the top.

I don’t think there’s any basis for doubting their ability to plan properly. Not when you consider their body of work.

The ‘details’ from a random YouTube ‘insider’ with no prior track record of any credibility?

Source: “I saw someone talk about it on YouTube so it must be true” 😂


Usually when people post ‘leaks’ from unverified ‘insiders’, the caveat is to take things with a pinch of salt. Not sure why you’re talking about ‘common sense’ when the sensible thing to do isn’t to base your entire argument over a story that has a very very high probability of being nonsense.


“I believe In sketchy rumors and state confidently that Playground games can’t make a very good Fable game” is your position here, an illogical position which seems heavily driven by a long history of downplaying anything Xbox.

I am yet to understand why some of you do this.

If the source of the rumour is untrustworthy then I'd love for it to be false and this new Fable game to be bonkers good.

On the other hand, the rumour sounds credible to me, even if the source is not. I maintain my scepticism over this game turning out to be something I wanna play, because of Playgrounds' inexperience with RPGs.

I'd love to be pleasantly surprised just as much as the next poster, however.

You my simple friend are the one who is triggered. The thread details are without weight or merit as like I said we are yet to see the game in any shape or form. The game was announced under 2 years ago not a very long time given how long these games take to create, so stop with the bull and take a more patient approach 👍

The game was announced two years ago with nothing more than a CGI trailer. That alone isn't a good sign. But yeah, MS has a conference coming up very soon so we'll wait and see.

I'll temper my expectations though.
 

Ozriel

Member
The game was announced two years ago with nothing more than a CGI trailer. That alone isn't a good sign. But yeah, MS has a conference coming up very soon so we'll wait and see.

I'll temper my expectations though.


How is it a bad sign that the game was announced with a CGI trailer?

That actually IS a great sign. Better to outsource a CGI trailer than to waste precious dev time pulling together a vertical slice for E3.

We had early CGI trailers for the likes of Death Stranding and Elden Ring. Not sure anyone would have called that a bad sign for the final release. Callisto Protocol is one of the most anticipated games of the year and it’s only getting its first gameplay trailer with half a year to release!
 
Stop making silly assumptions then.

Assuming that a studio that's only made driving games don't have the engine or toolchain setup for a completely different type of game, isn't in any way a silly assumption. It's a logical and practical one.

And you would know that if you weren't ignorant of how games developent works.
 
Assuming that a studio that's only made driving games don't have the engine or toolchain setup for a completely different type of game, isn't in any way a silly assumption. It's a logical and practical one.

And you would know that if you weren't ignorant of how games developent works.
They have been working on this game for years now, and I might add approached the powers that be at Microsoft about making a new Fable.

In your tiny world does time stand still? In the real world things progress, maybe step outside and smell the coffee sometime.
 

Kimahri

Gold Member
Yes... building out the toolset that they didn't have before that they need to make a game like Fable.... so exactly what I've been saying.

Glad we finally can agree on something.
Why not just accept that we have no clue whatsoever how far along Fable his, how potentially troubled the development, and whether or not a bunch of devs with years of experience making games have any idea what they're doing, yeah?

This need to cook soup on rusted nails is just tiresome.
 

Goalus

Member
Assuming that a studio that's only made driving games don't have the engine or toolchain setup for a completely different type of game, isn't in any way a silly assumption. It's a logical and practical one.

And you would know that if you weren't ignorant of how games developent works.
Blizzard once had only experience with real-time strategy.
And then they made Diablo, an ARPG.
And then they made WoW, a 3D MMORPG.
And then they made Hearthstone, a trading card game.
And then they made Overwatch, an FPS.

Outrageous, isn't it?

Edit:
They actually started with 2D Jump'n Runs.
How they were able to switch to RTS after that is almost inconceivable.
 
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I was watching an old video from like 2018 and the guy mentioned the rumoured fable from playground games. Made me realise how long we have known about this game, yet we know or have yet to see anything even 4 years later. Either they are really hard at work or there is trouble behind the scenes.
 

oldergamer

Member
Not sure about that. The real way to debunk it would have been showing the game and letting everyone see how good it is. Someone saying everything's fine don't worry about it isn't worth that much to me.
That is a bullshit excuse you've created to believe a bullshit rumor. You probably are more interested in negative drama then you are in the video game

The game is unfinished. Why show a game a this stage? They have no interest is quelling system warriors like yourself or a few others in this thread, but they felt there was enough bullshit on twitter to actually speak out. If it was real, they would say nothing at all.
 
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Papacheeks

Banned
Blizzard once had only experience with real-time strategy.
And then they made Diablo, an ARPG.
And then they made WoW, a 3D MMORPG.
And then they made Hearthstone, a trading card game.
And then they made Overwatch, an FPS.

Outrageous, isn't it?

Edit:
They actually started with 2D Jump'n Runs.
How they were able to switch to RTS after that is almost inconceivable.

It's like you are comparing a studio to one that created sprite, 2-3d animated games that had a top down camera system so going from lost vikings to warcraft, to starcraft to diablo was not hard. They even used the animated bubble/Box system where characters would have animated dialoge boxes on the side in warcraft/Diablo/Starcraft.

They slowly built systems on top of one another because they had a base and experience in 2d animated sprites and translated those to a different style level. They had experience in their CGI cutscenes in doing people/Characters so they had things like rigging, animations ect.

Playground literally made car simulators, so their engine and toolset is based off of non living objects with physics. So no rigging system for character animation, no animation tools, ect. Camera system also would have to drastically change. They had no experience with designing quests, let alone their engine supports such a huge change in gameplay systems.

These are not the same in scenario, but keep being delusional.
 
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Shubh_C63

Member
Currently there is "Space" phase going on.
In 1-3 years once people are bored with it, an old school Fantasy Adventure might take the hot spot again.

I say take your time. Their game will be compared to Starfield and Elden Ring worlds so good luck. Ha!
 
Blizzard once had only experience with real-time strategy.
And then they made Diablo, an ARPG.
And then they made WoW, a 3D MMORPG.
And then they made Hearthstone, a trading card game.
And then they made Overwatch, an FPS.

Outrageous, isn't it?

Edit:
They actually started with 2D Jump'n Runs.
How they were able to switch to RTS after that is almost inconceivable.
That was over multiple decades and in the end we were left with the Blizzard we have today.

It was a really slow progression for Blizzard if you think about it, including massive projects that were canceled.
 
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oldergamer

Member
Currently there is "Space" phase going on.
In 1-3 years once people are bored with it, an old school Fantasy Adventure might take the hot spot again.

I say take your time. Their game will be compared to Starfield and Elden Ring worlds so good luck. Ha!
It won't be compared to either. Fable is a different kind of rpg
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
It's like you are comparing a studio to one that created sprite, 2-3d animated games that had a top down camera system so going from lost vikings to warcraft, to starcraft to diablo was not hard. They even used the animated bubble/Box system where characters would have animated dialoge boxes on the side in warcraft/Diablo/Starcraft.

They slowly built systems on top of one another because they had a base and experience in 2d animated sprites and translated those to a different style level. They had experience in their CGI cutscenes in doing people/Characters so they had things like rigging, animations ect.

Playground literally made car simulators, so their engine and toolset is based off of non living objects with physics. So no rigging system for character animation, no animation tools, ect. Camera system also would have to drastically change. They had no experience with designing quests, let alone their engine supports such a huge change in gameplay systems.

These are not the same in scenario, but keep being delusional.
You do know Playgrounds B team is basically nothing but people who work on RPGs.
The B team is effectively a whole new studio they even have their own building.
If they changed their name maybe people wouldnt be as apprehensive about Playground and Fable.

And I take it you havent played a Forza Horizon game in a while cuz you think Playground A dont know how to rig characters?
And whats this about camera systems?

Racing game chase cam is near literally exactly the same as a thirdperson follow cam.
If the game is using over the shoulder there is some difference but they are effectively the same system.
Hell when I used to dev in CryEngine I used the third person camera for a racing demo, and after implementing the camera shake and velocity blur i used the same camera system on a third person demo and it works the same.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
You do know Playgrounds B team is basically nothing but people who work on RPGs.
The B team is effectively a whole new studio they even have their own building.
If they changed their name maybe people wouldnt be as apprehensive about Playground and Fable.

And I take it you havent played a Forza Horizon game in a while cuz you think Playground A dont know how to rig characters?
And whats this about camera systems?

Racing game chase cam is near literally exactly the same as a thirdperson follow cam.
If the game is using over the shoulder there is some difference but they are effectively the same system.
Hell when I used to dev in CryEngine I used the third person camera for a racing demo, and after implementing the camera shake and velocity blur i used the same camera system on a third person demo and it works the same.

Isn't their B team something they did recently in the past couple years which was built for the sole purpose of Fable?

Also rigging systems, character animations, creature animations, combat systems all have to be built within the confides of whatever the Horizon team has.

Gureilla Games went from a shooter to a 3rd person adventure game with light questing. But shooting, character animations, facial animation tools were all there from previous projects on top of updates they made for Shadowfall for night and day.

So there was a base there in terms of rigging, camera systems, combat systems, physics for shooting based mechanics. I mean obviously a lot of stuff gets rebuilt or built 100% from scratch for a project as different like Zero Dawn. But my point is a lot was already there base wise for people based games.

Playground literally was going from a car game to a RPG. It;s like taking Motorstorm/Driveclub guys and having them make a JRPG.

Huge undertaking regardless if they have a dedicated team for it.
 
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Shubh_C63

Member
It won't be compared to either. Fable is a different kind of rpg
I would have compared Fable world building and traversal with open world of Starfield and Elden Ring. Story and environmental story telling and passable combat is what I seek in fantasy setting.
I have NOT played any Fable but didn't looked too far from Kingdoms of amalur traversal and exploration.
 

Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Isn't their B team something they did recently in the past couple years which was built for the sole purpose of Fable?

Also rigging systems, character animations, creature animations, combat systems all have to be built within the confides of whatever the Horizon team has.

Gureilla Games went from a shooter to a 3rd person adventure game with light questing. But shooting, character animations, facial animation tools were all there from previous projects on top of updates they made for Shadowfall for night and day.

So there was a base there in terms of rigging, camera systems, combat systems, physics for shooting based mechanics. I mean obviously a lot of stuff gets rebuilt or built 100% from scratch for a project as different like Zero Dawn. But my point is a lot was already there base wise for people based games.

Playground literally was going from a car game to a RPG. It;s like taking Motorstorm/Driveclub guys and having them make a JRPG.

Huge undertaking regardless if they have a dedicated team for it.
Yes the B team was made in 2016.
Well before Fable was announced.

The B team was created to work on open world games.
Said B team pitched to Microsoft that they wanted to make an openworld RPG they hired a couple extra staff members to join the B team and MS gave the greenlight to Playground to make the RPG they wanted to make.
The Fable IP was dormant so they titled their RPG Fable.

The thing is its not Playground A team making Fable.
Its the B team, a team comprised almost entirely of RPG experts.
The systems they would need to integrate wouldnt be a problem.
Playground A already brought cutscenes to the ForzaTech engine years and years ago.
Weve seen their techartists are wizards turning what would be called a pure sim engine into something much much more.

None of the systems you are mentioning are particularly hard to implement and when the team is all RPG folk the techart team can focus on getting the engine and tools ready for the developers to do what they need.
They arent starting from scratch.

While it might be Playgrounds first RPG, pretty much all the B team have shipped RPGs before.
So its not the same as saying theyve only ever done racing games because that is literally NOT true.

If Playground B team did anything but an RPG that would have been weird....why make a studio of nothing but RPG heads to NOT make an RPG?
 

Ozriel

Member
It's like you are comparing a studio to one that created sprite, 2-3d animated games that had a top down camera system so going from lost vikings to warcraft, to starcraft to diablo was not hard. They even used the animated bubble/Box system where characters would have animated dialoge boxes on the side in warcraft/Diablo/Starcraft.

They slowly built systems on top of one another because they had a base and experience in 2d animated sprites and translated those to a different style level. They had experience in their CGI cutscenes in doing people/Characters so they had things like rigging, animations ect.

Playground literally made car simulators, so their engine and toolset is based off of non living objects with physics. So no rigging system for character animation, no animation tools, ect. Camera system also would have to drastically change. They had no experience with designing quests, let alone their engine supports such a huge change in gameplay systems.

These are not the same in scenario, but keep being delusional.

…and they’ve extensively hired to bring the additional capability In-house. Not to mention that experienced developers can often pivot seamlessly.

Based on your logic, Double Helix should never have been able to make Killer Instinct (2013)



Not to mention Guerilla pivoting from exclusively FPS games to Horizon, within 4 years.




From the most in-depth expose on the game’s development (from the Spanish dev), development seems to be going on just fine.
 

Papacheeks

Banned
Yes the B team was made in 2016.
Well before Fable was announced.

The B team was created to work on open world games.
Said B team pitched to Microsoft that they wanted to make an openworld RPG they hired a couple extra staff members to join the B team and MS gave the greenlight to Playground to make the RPG they wanted to make.
The Fable IP was dormant so they titled their RPG Fable.

The thing is its not Playground A team making Fable.
Its the B team, a team comprised almost entirely of RPG experts.
The systems they would need to integrate wouldnt be a problem.
Playground A already brought cutscenes to the ForzaTech engine years and years ago.
Weve seen their techartists are wizards turning what would be called a pure sim engine into something much much more.

None of the systems you are mentioning are particularly hard to implement and when the team is all RPG folk the techart team can focus on getting the engine and tools ready for the developers to do what they need.
They arent starting from scratch.

While it might be Playgrounds first RPG, pretty much all the B team have shipped RPGs before.
So its not the same as saying theyve only ever done racing games because that is literally NOT true.

If Playground B team did anything but an RPG that would have been weird....why make a studio of nothing but RPG heads to NOT make an RPG?

If thats the case why are there reports saying the opposite? Why is there developers on record saying going from Horizon to Fable has its own challenges? And you say B team was built for fable and more than likely its second team that is dedicated for Fable. But then there are a bunch of hires leaked for them looking for people with questing, story narrative experience.?



An ex-Fable developer has claimed the game's lengthy development time is due to a lack of knowledge and a "doing more with less" attitude.

Back when the Fable reboot was first announced and it was revealed Playground Games is working on it, many wondered how the developer mostly known for the Forza Horizon series would be able to adapt to making an open-world RPG. It turns out quite badly at first, according to ex-developer Juan Fernandez, who was recently interviewed by Spanish outlet Vandal (translated by wccftech.)

According to Fernandez, development on Fable was slow during his time at the company, claiming that Playground Games “lacked people with knowledge” on how to actually make a slow-paced RPG.

They're very smart and they know what they're doing. They wanted to branch out with something different and they thought that what they do well is open-world racing games, [but] they lacked people with the knowledge of how gameplay is done. In an open world, how you control a character and the actions are very different from what you have in a racing game.”

Playground’s “doing more with less” mentality is another factor that has slowed development somewhat and that the development process was getting “longer and longer” as a result. However, Fernandez does explain that Playground Games has apparently been hiring more staff since he left, and it’s currently unknown whether these problems are still occurring at the developer.
In November last year, Playground’s lead engineer Tom Golton revealed that he had worked on the game for four years, yet didn’t disclose when he joined the project.

Yea sorry but if any of this has any weight it feels from the outside looking in, that they bit off more than they can chew. So until we see it, if we ever see it anytime soon we all are speculating.

But to announce the game 2018, then 4 years later have nothing to show outside of a CGI teaser. It seems the reports of it being very slow seem to be true in terms of development progress.
 

Kvally

Member
If thats the case why are there reports saying the opposite? Why is there developers on record saying going from Horizon to Fable has its own challenges? And you say B team was built for fable and more than likely its second team that is dedicated for Fable. But then there are a bunch of hires leaked for them looking for people with questing, story narrative experience.?


[/URL]



Yea sorry but if any of this has any weight it feels from the outside looking in, that they bit off more than they can chew. So until we see it, if we ever see it anytime soon we all are speculating.

But to announce the game 2018, then 4 years later have nothing to show outside of a CGI teaser. It seems the reports of it being very slow seem to be true in terms of development progress.
Those “reports” were debunked and was debunked by a head at the studio. So that is great news.
 
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