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Fabricated Notch/Mojang party escort allegations; Twitter monsters spring into action

H

hamchan

Member
Misguided said:
I don't understand how people could possibly be okay with this just because, "Oh well, that always happens, that's just how it is, why fight it?" Ask yourself if that logic makes ANY sense whatsoever.
Click to expand...

Explain what's wrong with it. Why do you want to deny the chance for these women to make money? Are you also against the notion of male strippers?
 
X

xenist

Member
What? A party with pretty people being paid to be pretty and socialize?

That's every "official" party I've ever known. Club openings. Big company parties. Industry parties. Do you think everyone in the Oscars was invited there? Clubs themselves have people on payroll for exactly that reason. There are agencies for that thing. When you go to a venue to organize a party it is among the options you have. A friend of mine would do this on weekends for extra income.

Is this not a thing in the US? Why is everyone acting so shocked? It's not like Notch trawled bus stops for teenage runaways, drugged them and then threw them to a bunch of geeks.
 
F

fabricated backlash

Member
Wait what? How is this problematic?
Did they hire them to sex up the guests or to simply entertain them with smalltalk, dance and to break the ice? If the latter, wouldn't hiring a band also be morally problematic?
 
R

raphier

Banned
every single corporate/industry/entertainment party has escorts, and I should be outraged because Notch did it?
 
S

Savitar

Member
I would prefer to hear more details before breaking out the pitchforks.

Betsy (my pitchfork) deserves only righteous blood.

Torchy (my torch) will burn anyone though...bit of a dick.
 
H

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
How much were the men paid?
Ninja Kn1ght said:
It was the same in the VIP area at PAX Prime. It was pretty weird.
Click to expand...
At the Curse/Planetside 2 party last year at PAX East they had 2 pole dancers next to the DJ.

Also the OPs avatar makes me feel uncomfortable.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
SalsaShark said:
what?

it's a private party by a company. It's people hiring women who do this thing for a living, and paying them, for what they do and know how to do

they are working, they are getting paid and the people at the party are getting the other end of the service, as it happens in any other context

why is it suddenly just wrong in videogames?
Click to expand...

I don't think it's just about videogames. But obviously videogames people are having this debate in a big way at the moment.

There are other male dominated professions where stuff like this happens too. But none of them strike as being particularly open or welcoming toward women, and though it may just be one small thing, the party culture in an industry can be telling and can fuel that sense of whether women are viewed as inside or outside the culture of the industry.
 
S

syllogism

Member
Misguided said:
I don't understand how people could possibly be okay with this just because, "Oh well, that always happens, that's just how it is, why fight it?" Ask yourself if that logic makes ANY sense whatsoever.
Click to expand...
There is nothing wrong with women, or men for that matter, dancing at an event. Your actual worry seems to be that the current gaming industry pushes away and alienates women, which is an actual problem and a valid topic of discussion. It's not "beyond fucked up", however.
 
J

jerd

Member
Misguided said:
I don't understand how people could possibly be okay with this just because, "Oh well, that always happens, that's just how it is, why fight it?" Ask yourself if that logic makes ANY sense whatsoever.
Click to expand...

I think the problem is that this thread should be in the OT and discuss the topic of hiring women to "socialize" as a whole rather than just targeting a single company/individual.
 
element

element

Member
the whole thing was a shit show. i had a rsvp invite. showed up around 9:30 and they said they were only letting in VIP guests because they are at fire code capacity. I walk down to the other side of the venue and there are 100 people in line at the door for "general admission" (isn't this an industry event?), and then look across the street there are another 300 in line. Just looking at the line you could tell that 99% of the people had no freaking clue what GDC was, just that skrillex was playing.

between this and the problems at the pax prime party, notch really needs to figure out his whole party situation. perhaps throw a party for, you know game developers at GDC or pax attendees at pax. not local raver kids who want a free show and assault people.
 
Mikey Jr.

Mikey Jr.

Member
gofreak said:
I don't think the whining is out of white knighting for the women being paid to be there. I'm sure they had a good time and love that work.

I think it's more about industry women attending these parties, and how it feels for them when as a minority, they see other women hired in as decorative baubles to provide eye candy for the men.

I think people are a bit more sensitive about this stuff now given the debates going on about it.
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On the other hands, its a party. I am sure the gender there was extremely skewed towards the men. I'm sure its not fun for guys to dance and interact with other men at a party.....
 
S

Salsa

Member
gofreak said:
I don't think it's just about videogames. But obviously videogames people are having this debate in a big way at the moment.

There are other male dominated professions where stuff like this happens too. But none of them strike as being particularly open or welcoming toward women, and though it may just be one small thing, the party culture in an industry can be telling and can fuel that sense of whether women are viewed as inside or outside the culture of the industry.
Click to expand...

I think it's incredibly stupid to try to link something like this to any sort of "WOMEN ARE OBJECTS PROTECT LARA CROFT" argument that's going on at the moment

it's a bunch of peope in a company having a party and hiring some strippers/what have you. They hold no responsability for any of that crap and they are more than entitled to have their fun this way considering the women are willing. It's an agreement from both parties, there's nothing "shady" or anything like that.

Sleazy for this particular kind of event? sure, that's up to the opinion of whoever was there
 
M

mxgt

Banned
There is a good chance that this party was largely Male populated. I really don't see the problem providing them entertainment

Does the OP have a problem with Male dancers at largely female parties?
 
M

Misguided

Banned
hamchan said:
Explain what's wrong with it. Why do you want to deny the chance for these women to make money? Are you also against the notion of male strippers?
Click to expand...

Welp, here goes:

This way of making money is not intellectually stimulating for a person. These women could be getting a degree/making a real career out of their lives; instead they have given in to society's vision of them in order to pay the bills. It makes that person come off as slutty and stupid, and that something as artificial as money can pay for her attention. It perpetuates stereotypes about an entire gender of people that have historically been mistreated by men. It makes women who aren't there to make money feel uncomfortable, and creates a hostile environment towards women in the games/tech industry. I'm against the notion of people being paid for their sexual attractiveness, yes.
 
T

Twinduct

Member
element said:
the whole thing was a shit show. i had a rsvp invite. showed up around 9:30 and they said they were only letting in VIP guests because they are at fire code capacity. I walk down to the other side of the venue and there are 100 people in line at the door for "general admission" (isn't this an industry event?), and then look across the street there are another 300 in line. Just looking at the line you could tell that 99% of the people had no freaking clue what GDC was, just that skrillex was playing.

between this and the problems at the pax prime party, notch really needs to figure out his whole party situation. perhaps throw a party for, you know game developers at GDC or pax attendees at pax. not local raver kids who want a free show and assault people.
Click to expand...

Bleh, sounds pretty shitty. On the bright side, you didn't have to endure skrillex!
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
hamchan said:
Explain what's wrong with it. Why do you want to deny the chance for these women to make money? Are you also against the notion of male strippers?
Click to expand...

If I was a (straight) man working in a female dominated industry, and I went to party where there were male hosts being paid to dance and socialise with the women, I would probably start questioning whether this industry was really 'for me'.

I don't think this is at all about the women or men being hired and dancing or whatever. I don't think I think it's about the messaging sent to people working in an industry with a minority gender.
 
I

Impeccable

Member
Oh shit, private party conducts itself like thousands of parties around the world by women who do this specifically as a job to earn themselves a living?

Just because women in the industry is a hot topic at the moment doesn't mean people have to white knight stupid shit.
 
S

Salsa

Member
Misguided said:
Welp, here goes:

This way of making money is not intellectually stimulating for a person. These women could be getting a degree/making a real career out of their lives; instead they have given in to society's vision of them in order to pay the bills. It makes that person come off as slutty and stupid, and that something as artificial as money can pay for her attention. It perpetuates stereotypes about an entire gender of people that have historically been mistreated by men. It makes women who aren't there to make money feel uncomfortable, and creates a hostile environment towards women in the games/tech industry. I'm against the notion of people being paid for their sexual attractiveness, yes.
Click to expand...

so you are mad at the fucking strippers, not Mojang

Mojang is giving money to women who decided on that line of work and are trying to get by.

What are you personally doing to change this thing that bothers you so much?

it's a fucking legitimate job. They are doing what they want to do.
 
W

wrowa

Member
gofreak said:
I think it would probably make some other industry women at the party feel a bit uncomfortable, with the suggestion that women are there just to look pretty and make the men feel good.

This is where this whole debate stems from - there is a big debate going on at the moment about women in the industry and whether the industry is welcoming towards women or not, takes them seriously or not.
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Sounds like people are reading way too much into it imo.

I'd assume they didn't hire the women to "look pretty and make men feel good" but in order to have a more balanced gender ratio. We all know that most people in this industry are men and it's not exactly rocket science that parties work best when there's not a drastic difference between attending women and attending men.

Actually, I'm not really sure how it would make things better for the industry's women when they are attending a party where a dozen men try to hit on them.

I do agree that this is not exactly a great solution to fight that problem though, but I don't think the people who organized the party did this with sexist ideas in mind.


Misguided said:
Welp, here goes:

This way of making money is not intellectually stimulating for a person. These women could be getting a degree/making a real career out of their lives; instead they have given in to society's vision of them in order to pay the bills. It makes that person come off as slutty and stupid, and that something as artificial as money can pay for her attention. It perpetuates stereotypes about an entire gender of people that have historically been mistreated by men. It makes women who aren't there to make money feel uncomfortable, and creates a hostile environment towards women in the games/tech industry. I'm against the notion of people being paid for their sexual attractiveness, yes.
Click to expand...

They could be making a degree at night? You sure about that? I don't think so.

I think it's a pretty ignorant thing to say that all escorts or hostesses or whatever are girls without a future. Quite a few of them are actually students who finance their studies with this. It's easy and quick money after all and you aren't actually selling your body.
 
M

MormaPope

Banned
element said:
the whole thing was a shit show. i had a rsvp invite. showed up around 9:30 and they said they were only letting in VIP guests because they are at fire code capacity. I walk down to the other side of the venue and there are 100 people in line at the door for "general admission" (isn't this an industry event?), and then look across the street there are another 300 in line. Just looking at the line you could tell that 99% of the people had no freaking clue what GDC was, just that skrillex was playing.

between this and the problems at the pax prime party, notch really needs to figure out his whole party situation. perhaps throw a party for, you know game developers at GDC or pax attendees at pax. not local raver kids who want a free show and assault people.
Click to expand...

Sounds pretty lame compared to even casual designer interaction after GDC panels/events, the fact that the Notch party brings in random people and caters to them instead of actual GDC occupants is dumb.
 
AZ Greg

AZ Greg

Member
Misguided said:
Welp, here goes:

This way of making money is not intellectually stimulating for a person. These women could be getting a degree/making a real career out of their lives; instead they have given in to society's vision of them in order to pay the bills. It makes that person come off as slutty and stupid, and that something as artificial as money can pay for her attention. It perpetuates stereotypes about an entire gender of people that have historically been mistreated by men. It makes women who aren't there to make money feel uncomfortable, and creates a hostile environment towards women in the games/tech industry. I'm against the notion of people being paid for their sexual attractiveness, yes.
Click to expand...

Misguided
 
M

michaelius

Banned
gofreak said:
I don't think it's just about videogames. But obviously videogames people are having this debate in a big way at the moment.

There are other male dominated professions where stuff like this happens too. But none of them strike as being particularly open or welcoming toward women, and though it may just be one small thing, the party culture in an industry can be telling and can fuel that sense of whether women are viewed as inside or outside the culture of the industry.
Click to expand...

Yes i'm sure that there were 7 girls among 210 people on electronics faculty i were in my university because other girls passionate about electronics were being scared of party culture in the industry.

And 80-90% of girls in my high school having serious troubles with mathematics was obviously just a result of sexism and not choices of what they like learning.
 
M

mxgt

Banned
Misguided said:
This way of making money is not intellectually stimulating for a person. These women could be getting a degree/making a real career out of their lives; instead they have given in to society's vision of them in order to pay the bills. It makes that person come off as slutty and stupid
Click to expand...

This is just ridiculous
 
B

Bedlam

Member
gofreak said:
I don't think the whining is out of white knighting for the women being paid to be there. I'm sure they had a good time and love that work.

I think it's more about industry women attending these parties, and how it feels for them when as a minority, they see other women hired in as decorative baubles to provide eye candy for the men.

I think people are a bit more sensitive about this stuff now given the debates going on about it.
Click to expand...
Solution: next time also hire a male stripper or two so the female developers can have fun, too.

Misguided said:
Welp, here goes:

This way of making money is not intellectually stimulating for a person. These women could be getting a degree/making a real career out of their lives; instead they have given in to society's vision of them in order to pay the bills. It makes that person come off as slutty and stupid, and that something as artificial as money can pay for her attention. It perpetuates stereotypes about an entire gender of people that have historically been mistreated by men. It makes women who aren't there to make money feel uncomfortable, and creates a hostile environment towards women in the games/tech industry. I'm against the notion of people being paid for their sexual attractiveness, yes.
Click to expand...

It was those persons' decisions to follow that line of work, not "society's". No one forbid them to pursue a different line of work. And how do you know that some of them aren't financing their uni education with this job? It's not uncommon.
 
G

gofreak

GAF's Bob Woodward
SalsaShark said:
I think it's incredibly stupid to try to link something like this to any sort of "WOMEN ARE OBJECTS PROTECT LARA CROFT" argument that's going on at the moment

it's a bunch of peope in a company having a party and hiring some strippers/what have you. They hold no responsability for any of that crap and they are more than entitled to have their fun this way considering the women are willing. It's an agreement from both parties, there's nothing "shady" or anything like that.
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about the dancers and questions of their objectification, or the debate about the objectification of female characters in games.

I don't even think the people involved here were strippers. They were probably hostesses.

I'm talking about the debate over the role of women in the industry, participation of women professionals in the industry.

If I was throwing an industry party I would have industry people there and that's it. I would not be hiring pretty women to make men feel good. If I was hiring hosts I would have a mix. Hiring just women to hang out with the boys is probably not going to feel good for women employees of my company or others' companies attending my party. I'm thinking about those people, not the dancers.

michaelius said:
Yes i'm sure that there were 7 girls among 210 people on electronics faculty i were in my university because other girls passionate about electronics were being scared of party culture in the industry.
Click to expand...

I'm just saying it helps to ingrain the idea that certain professions are for certain people. I'm not saying it's a root cause, but it doesn't help opening up an industry.
 
J

jerd

Member
Misguided said:
Welp, here goes:

This way of making money is not intellectually stimulating for a person. These women could be getting a degree/making a real career out of their lives; instead they have given in to society's vision of them in order to pay the bills. It makes that person come off as slutty and stupid, and that something as artificial as money can pay for her attention. It perpetuates stereotypes about an entire gender of people that have historically been mistreated by men. It makes women who aren't there to make money feel uncomfortable, and creates a hostile environment towards women in the games/tech industry. I'm against the notion of people being paid for their sexual attractiveness, yes.
Click to expand...

Then don't contribute and don't accept payment based on sexual attractiveness. If someone sees that as a resource or trait/skill worth paying for, and an attractive person is willing to accept payment, then it is a consentual agreement and I'm not sure I see the problem. Degrees aren't for everyone. Not everyone wants to do something "intellectually stimulating". Just because these people may not be living up to your bogus standards doesn't mean that their lifestyle is wrong. And as far as perpetuating stereotypes, do you really believe this to be more of a problem perpetuating female stereotypes than, I don't know, any reality show ever put on TV?

Tl;dr- Stop judging people. They aren't you.
 
K

kurahador

Member
Misguided said:
Welp, here goes:

This way of making money is not intellectually stimulating for a person. These women could be getting a degree/making a real career out of their lives; instead they have given in to society's vision of them in order to pay the bills. It makes that person come off as slutty and stupid, and that something as artificial as money can pay for her attention. It perpetuates stereotypes about an entire gender of people that have historically been mistreated by men. It makes women who aren't there to make money feel uncomfortable, and creates a hostile environment towards women in the games/tech industry. I'm against the notion of people being paid for their sexual attractiveness, yes.
Click to expand...

Welp...someone is desperate for a tag.
 
E

ElectricKaibutsu

Member
Are these tweets by men? If there were women there that had a problem with the escorts or hostesses or whatever, I'll sympathize. But if it's just guys complaining that it's sleazy, well, I agree but don't care much beyond that.
 
SoulUnison

SoulUnison

Banned
I guess my problem with this is how Minecraft only gets barebone updates every couple of months - if we're lucky, and yet they're paying strippers 300/hr. to pretend to be interested in their conversations?

What about all the things that the devs have promised would be integrated into MC that've been pushed back and pushed back and put on indefinite hold?

And then Notch moves onto Scrolls and his Space Sim Programming game 0x000 or something like that?

I'm starting to get the feeling that Notch got really lucky and became a millionaire on just the Alpha version of Minecraft, so now he's going to just keep starting projects, gathering money for them, and then "moving on" and dumping a B or C team in as soon as they hit a bare minimum of playability.
 
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