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Facebook handed Russia-linked ads over to Mueller under search warrant

Adaren

Member
He should hang alongside Trump.

I get that Zuckerberg isn't everyone's favorite person (he's certainly not my first choice for 2020), but he's not the enemy here. Russia and Trump are.

Facebook certainly screwed up, and Zuckerberg has some responsibility for that, but posts like this are losing perspective.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I get that Zuckerberg isn't everyone's favorite person (he's certainly not my first choice for 2020), but he's not the enemy here. Russia is. Trump is. Direct your anger at those who deserve it.

Facebook certainly screwed up, and Zuckerberg has some responsibility for that, but posts like this are losing perspective.

Facebook, and mismanaged social media companies in general, helped create Trump and the alt-right. They absolutely deserve blame for our current situation.
 

kirblar

Member
I get that Zuckerberg isn't everyone's favorite person (he's certainly not my first choice for 2020), but he's not the enemy here. Russia and Trump are.

Facebook certainly screwed up, and Zuckerberg has some responsibility for that, but posts like this are losing perspective.
Zuckerberg's company accepted Russian money for political ads.

He's absolutely part of the problem.
 

Purkake4

Banned
Facebook, and mismanaged social media companies in general, helped create Trump and the alt-right. They absolutely deserve blame for our current situation.
How is this any different than JFK using TV or Calvin Coolidge using the Radio? The medium itself is not the problem.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
How is this any different than JFK using TV or Calvin Coolidge using the Radio? The medium itself is not the problem.

In some ways it is especially Facebook which let's people live in a bubble of their own ignorance.
 
If this happens, no, If zuckerberg wins the presidency with or without thanks to Facebook, it will show that becoming president of the United States is no longer something serious and professional, instead it's going to look like becoming president of the United States is a show like American idol or Americas got talent

Zuckerberg has the personality of a telephone pole. I can't see him winning people over.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
In some ways it is especially Facebook which let's people live in a bubble of their own ignorance.

That and the Russians aren't buying TV/radio ads. Technically they aren't supposed to be buying election ads at all, yet Facebook sold them ad space for election ads.
 

androvsky

Member
How is this any different than JFK using TV or Calvin Coolidge using the Radio? The medium itself is not the problem.

I'm trying to imagine Stalin or Khrushchev buying political ads on TV or radio during those periods without the broadcasters telling anyone where the ads came from, and how the American people would have reacted after discovering the truth. It's not pretty.
 

Adaren

Member
Facebook, and mismanaged social media companies in general, helped create Trump and the alt-right. They absolutely deserve blame for our current situation.

I don't disagree that Facebook was a vehicle for spreading conspiracy theories and mistruths during 2016, but those conspiracy theories were ultimately coming from other sources (conservative talk radio, Fox News). Yes, Facebook could have had some sort of truth-verifying system before 2016, but 1. doing so would have been highly controversial and 2. I don't think anyone realized how bad it would get. Why create a lot of controversy and risk sparking a huge backlash that could drive people further into conspiracy theories?

Yes, in hindsight we can wish that they would have been more proactive, but I don't think that that would have necessarily made the outcome better.

And I should clarify that they absolutely shouldn't have let Russia buy ads. Hopefully the company has corrected that, and Zuckerberg certainly deserves a portion of the blame.

Zuckerberg's company accepted Russian money for political ads.

He's absolutely part of the problem.

To an extent, yes. But Trump is a million times more of a problem.

And as long as that malicious hateful dickbag is in office, I'm loathe to make more enemies than I need to. We should all be united against him.
 

Purkake4

Banned
I missed the part where JFK and Calvin Coolidge took money from a hostile foreign power to influence the election...
If that's illegal, then enforce those laws.

You can't force facebook to give people different perspectives against their will.

I'm trying to imagine Stalin or Khrushchev buying political ads on TV or radio during those periods without the broadcasters telling anyone where the ads came from, and how the American people would have reacted after discovering the truth. It's not pretty.
Welcome to the multipolar world, the internet has opened things up a little bit.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
And Fox News doesn't?

It's another paradigm shift, you can fix it by educating people, you can't "fix" the medium.

Facebook generates what you will see and most people don't ever go out of their way to even realize this, let alone change that. People can't become educated when they live in a echo chamber all the time. Fox News is a single TV channel that can be easily ignored, FB is people's life line to the world at large.
 

DrFunk

not licensed in your state
So Mueller has the eclipse image that Trump reposted onto Twitter.

Amazing.

What eclipse image?

It's so fucking stupid:

trump-twitter1-ht-ml-170824_v12x5_31x13_992.jpg


eclipses end, dumbass
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
If that's illegal, then enforce those laws.

You can't force facebook to give people different perspectives against their will.

What do you think the Mueller investigation is about? Goddamn, you can find someone to defend anything on GAF can't you?
 

theWB27

Member
If that's illegal, then enforce those laws.

You can't force facebook to give people different perspectives against their will.


Welcome to the multipolar world, the internet has opened things up a little bit.

They did though...by forcing people to see shit that wasn't even real amid other things.
 

Purkake4

Banned
What do you think the Mueller investigation is about? Goddamn, you can find someone to defend anything on GAF can't you?
It would probably be better to enforce those laws in real time rather than post hoc.

You're not going to fix American politics by regulating social media, the problems go way deeper than that.

They did though...by forcing people to see shit that wasn't even real amid other things.
And what's the solution?
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Also it needs to be pointed out: foreign powers aren't allowed to buy ads meant to influence US elections. It's illegal. Facebook is probably in a good bit of trouble as a result of their actions.
 

theWB27

Member
It would probably be better to enforce those laws in real time rather than post hoc.

You're not going to fix American politics by regulating social media, the problems go way deeper than that.


And what's the solution?

Zuckerberg doesn't accept foreign money from the enemy to influence his home country's election.
 

theWB27

Member
That's perfectly fine.

How do you stop Facebook from being an echochamber? I don't think that was on Russian orders.

That's an irrelevant question as you're asking how one changes human nature since anything can be abused when used in excess. I'd rather not have the government regulate on that type of level.
 

Purkake4

Banned
That's an irrelevant question as you're asking how one changes human nature since anything can be abused when used in excess. I'd rather not have the government regulate on that type of level.
Well, I started off by answering to this comment...
Facebook, and mismanaged social media companies in general, helped create Trump and the alt-right. They absolutely deserve blame for our current situation.
 

theWB27

Member
Well, I started off by answering to this comment...

They had mismanaged in there...Zucks accepting money from the enemy is certainly under the category of mismanagement to put it lightly. Zucks giving a platform as big as his to hate speech is questionable also.
 

kaskade

Member
Damn, I remember Jon Favreau on Pod Save America mentioned something about Kusher probably giving information to target specific areas and spread the misinformation, most likely with the Russians. Looks like he was right. I can’t even imagine what the verdict is going to be. Apparently Mueller just signed on a prosecutor who specialized in money laundering too. These fuckers better get jail time.
 

Random Human

They were trying to grab your prize. They work for the mercenary. The masked man.
Damn, I remember Jon Favreau on Pod Save America mentioned something about Kusher probably giving information to target specific areas and spread the misinformation, most likely with the Russians. Looks like he was right. I can’t even imagine what the verdict is going to be. Apparently Mueller just signed on a prosecutor who specialized in money laundering too. These fuckers better get jail time.
He has like ten people who sepcialize in money laundering, lol. These guys are screwed.
 
When targeting algorithms and all that nonsense get even better the repression one day will be off the chain.

Brb whilst uploading finger prints and mug shot to apple HQ.

I'm tacitly finger pointing at all of yall.
 

Purkake4

Banned
Nowhere in that post do I mention echo chambers. I was referring to their allowance of hate speech and harassment. Also selling ad space to the Russians.
Yes, HStallion mentioned echo chambers.

I don't think the US government can do anything about the hate speech either though.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
So we're just talking about illegal ads from foreign power, then?

In terms of what the government can do? Yea.

I do think social media's allowance of harassment campaigns and hate speech allowed the alt-right to flourish though and that they deserve far more shit for that than they've been getting.
 

NekoFever

Member
I've noticed it all this week; slowly but steadily, people are turning their attention to Facebook and the role it played in 2016.

If Zuckerberg really was planning to run in 2020, he can put that thought out of his mind now.
He can still run as a Republican.
 

Slo

Member
The idea that a social networking site has caused people to be more insular and less connected with each other and is therefore responsible for the existence a hate group is flatly laughable. Social networking, including and especially Facebook has had exactly the opposite effect. It has exponentially increased the exchange of information among parties who otherwise wouldn't communicate.

Just because you can also use it to exchange information that you'd rather not see exchanged doesn't mean that the tool itself is at fault.
 

royalan

Member
The idea that a social networking site has caused people to be more insular and less connected with each other and is therefore responsible for the existence a hate group is flatly laughable. Social networking, including and especially Facebook has had exactly the opposite effect. It has exponentially increased the exchange of information among parties who otherwise wouldn't communicate.

Just because you can also use it to exchange information that you'd rather not see exchanged doesn't mean that the tool itself is at fault.

This isn't what people are talking about, nor is it the problem here.

First off, Facebook might be (should be) in legal trouble because they sold ad space to a foreign entity for political advertising. That's against the law.

Also, it could be argued that since relying less of human curation and more on algorithms, increasing the exchange of information is exactly what Facebook DOESN'T do. Determining the political leaning of its users and then force-feeding them only content that aligns with that, combined with the unchecked flooding of unvetted content sources, is precisely what we dealt with last year, with conservatives being flooded with ridiculous stories about Hillary Clinton running a pedophilia ring through a pizza parlor that, surprise surprise, largely originated from Russian and Macedonian troll farms.

Facilitating the exchange of information and making sure that exchange isn't abused SHOULD go hand-in-hand. Facebook completely abdicated their responsibility here, and potentially broke the law in the process. They should absolutely be taken to task for it.
 
I get that Zuckerberg isn't everyone's favorite person (he's certainly not my first choice for 2020), but he's not the enemy here. Russia and Trump are.

Facebook certainly screwed up, and Zuckerberg has some responsibility for that, but posts like this are losing perspective.
Did you look at those ads? He participated in a conspiracy to win Trump the election.

I didn't even hate Zuckerberg before this, but he's a traitor to the nation now.
 
Facebook generates what you will see and most people don't ever go out of their way to even realize this, let alone change that. People can't become educated when they live in a echo chamber all the time. Fox News is a single TV channel that can be easily ignored, FB is people's life line to the world at large.

A buried lede here is that what one person sees on say, Fox News is what EVERYONE sees on Fox News. Hence, this FB deal is the microtargeting that some are missing.

Facebook changed their algorithms on this in December, but yah, barn door, horses loose, etc. We're in uncharted waters here reguarding regulation, technology, and law, behind those who would exploit them, playing desperate catchup. The real fight beyond that is getting enough people skeptical enough to blunt this as it's now the new normal.

Also it needs to be pointed out: foreign powers aren't allowed to buy ads meant to influence US elections. It's illegal. Facebook is probably in a good bit of trouble as a result of their actions.

FEC violations at BEST. And this is the information we so far were ALLOWED to be let in on.
 

leroidys

Member
It being too hard to sift through their billions of ad sales to verify that they aren't doing anything illegal is not a valid excuse. If you can't do business without complying with the law then you need to change your business model.

You can't stop technology therefore technology is good and moral and shouldn't be regulated is not an argument that deserves to be taken seriously.
 

HStallion

Now what's the next step in your master plan?
The idea that a social networking site has caused people to be more insular and less connected with each other and is therefore responsible for the existence a hate group is flatly laughable. Social networking, including and especially Facebook has had exactly the opposite effect. It has exponentially increased the exchange of information among parties who otherwise wouldn't communicate.

Just because you can also use it to exchange information that you'd rather not see exchanged doesn't mean that the tool itself is at fault.

Yeah it allows people with shady or ugly beliefs to connect and build off of one another far easier without scrutiny from others wen dissenting opinions.
 
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