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[Dragona Akehi]

I don't know.... do you remember how the human models looked in the Rogue Squadron games?

No one in their right mind could possibly have conceived that as a good idea. Especially after pit was already redesigned.


...then again this is the company that shipped Lair.

 

[Regulus Tera]

That has to be fake.

A Dragona Confirmation™ or Dragona Speculation™ here?

 

[ThatObviousUser]

A Dragona Confirmation™ or Dragona Speculation™ here?

Dragona only deals in the seedy J-game underground, and if you focus there's incredulity in the post...

 

[EatChildren]

Just go with this. Is that so hard? It's a perfectly good design. Maybe stylize it a bit, and you are set to go.

It’s also terribly boring.

It’s a great, nay perfect, re-design for a game like Brawl, but as the standout hero of his own adventure? Nothing stands out and facially he looks far too generic, ala Kingdom Hearts or something like that.

Nintendo could whip up something better.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Not sure why people are bagging on the Brawl version of Pit. It's true to the original but contemporary enough to avoid looking dated. Most of all it's just plain good design in and of itself. I have a personal distaste for the "generic anime" people keep referencing, but frankly I don't see it reflected in the character. It just looks like an eminently appropriate update to me, and I'd love it if a full fledged KI game adopted a similar style across the board.

 

[Vinci]

It’s a great, nay perfect, re-design for a game like Brawl, but as the standout hero of his own adventure? Nothing stands out and facially he looks far too generic, ala Kingdom Hearts or something like that.

Kingdom Hearts design is suddenly unsuccessful?

EDIT: Also, the vast majority of major games these days have relatively uninteresting looking leads.

 

[leroidys]

Was not a fan of bland brawl pit design, but its 100000 times better than that mockup. Please do not be true.

 

[EatChildren]

Kingdom Hearts design is suddenly unsuccessful?

No? Success has nothing to do with it. It looks too much like Kingdom Hearts, and its not Kingdom Hearts. Little about the Brawl Pit model stands out to me as a singular hero character for a game, or totally original in its own right. Facially, he looks like a plank of wood; boring.

EDIT: So because many other games fail to create interesting looking leads suddenly Nintendo have to follow suit? Link, Samus, and Mario are timeless. I expect the same from another one of their IPs.

 

[pulga]

Ugh, if they're still making the game, that model had better been scrapped ages ago. It looks like shit vomit.

 

[Vinci]

No? Success has nothing to do with it. It looks too much like Kingdom Hearts, and its not Kingdom Hearts. Little about the Brawl Pit model stands out to me as a singular hero character for a game, or totally original in its own right. Facially, he looks like a plank of wood; boring.

I guess it's my background in actually liking anime design, but his design looks excellent to me. Perhaps it's not as immediately grabbing to those who don't appreciate it, but it's certainly a better design than I'd give most Western developers any chance of producing for the same character.

EDIT: So because many other games fail to create interesting looking leads suddenly Nintendo have to follow suit? Link, Samus, and Mario are timeless. I expect the same from another one of their IPs.

The only reason they're timeless and that Pit design isn't is because we haven't grown up with it for over twenty years. Link's design - depending upon which you're talking about - isn't always the most inspired or interesting. What we associate with him comes from our experiences within the games and nostalgia. Nothing more.

 

[Black-Wind]

No? Success has nothing to do with it. It looks too much like Kingdom Hearts, and its not Kingdom Hearts. Little about the Brawl Pit model stands out to me as a singular hero character for a game, or totally original in its own right. Facially, he looks like a plank of wood; boring.

EDIT: So because many other games fail to create interesting looking leads suddenly Nintendo have to follow suit? Link, Samus, and Mario are timeless. I expect the same from another one of their IPs.

QFT

Brawl Pitt looks nice for BRAWL . . . as in, he is a character in a fighting/ party game with no one main character. I would hope Nintendo would make him look like a iconic Nintendo character if he gets his own game.

And if Shiggy is correct and this model was from late 07-early 08 than we can use this statement from the concept art reveal from komb-o . . .

Earlier this year, we broke the news that Factor 5 is working internally to revive the beloved Kid Icarus franchise. Although we do not have much new information in regards to the project, we have acquired nearly 30 pieces of concept art for the game, showing various different versions of Pit's new design, plus concept work for some of his weapons.

When we last wrote about the project, Factor 5 was in the process of pitching it to Nintendo. In the time since, we've spoken to at least one source that claims the Big N has expressed interest in publishing such a project. However, at this time, we are uncertain of whether or not Nintendo has committed to doing so. In other words, we have been unable to confirm whether or not Nintendo has officially green-lighted the project, but if we had to speculate, we'd say things are looking good for it.

The artwork we've published comes from a pitch document we got our hands on in the early part of 2008. Since then, sources have told us the game's artwork has advanced considerably. Despite this artwork not being reflective of the game's current standing, we've decided to share it so fans can get a look at what Factor 5 has experimented with.

Its safe to say that this design is long gone.

 

[nightside]

QFT

Brawl Pitt looks nice for BRAWL . . . as in, he is a character in a fighting/ party game with no one main character. I would hope Nintendo would make him look like a iconic Nintendo character if he gets his own game.

And if Shiggy is correct and this model was from late 07-early 08 than we can use this statement from the concept art reveal from komb-o . . .


Its safe to say that this design is long gone.

Still I don't like the idea of a western character design for pit

 

[Black-Wind]

Still I don't like the idea of a western character design for pit

Im not against eastern style, Im just not for "generic anime style" myself.

There are tons of ways to apply a more interesting anime/ manga style to Pitt (Hell, I can name 2 manga off the top of my head that do the whole Angel look in a more interesting manner . . . actually, those are the only 2 that I remember reading that did such a angel thing lol).

I just want the character to look iconic and interesting, thats all.

 

[nightside]

Im not against eastern style, Im just not for "generic anime style" myself.

There are tons of ways to apply a more interesting anime/ manga style to Pitt (Hell, I can name 2 manga off the top of my head that do the whole Angel look in a more interesting manner . . . actually, those are the only 2 that I remember reading that did such a angel thing lol).

I just want the character to look iconic and interesting, thats all.

"generic anime style"? I can see your point and I don't want Pit to look like naruto either. I'm referring to a "nintendo style" character design.

 

[Sydle]

I wish they would have given Icarus to Retro.

 

[Polmacaoidh]

I wish they would have given Icarus to Retro.

God no. I really hope Retro are doing something original at last.

Spoiler

Oh yeah, this is Nintendo. What am I thinking?

:lol

 

[Black-Wind]

"generic anime style"? I can see your point and I don't want Pit to look like naruto either. I'm referring to a "nintendo style" character design.

Oh, you are refering to Nintendo styled?

Well than I just out right dissagree. >_>

I want my Nitnendo characters to look like Nintendo characters which is one bad thing about them outsourcing games.

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

Im not against eastern style, Im just not for "generic anime style" myself.

There are tons of ways to apply a more interesting anime/ manga style to Pitt (Hell, I can name 2 manga off the top of my head that do the whole Angel look in a more interesting manner . . . actually, those are the only 2 that I remember reading that did such a angel thing lol).

I just want the character to look iconic and interesting, thats all.

I personally find his design unique, appealing, and totally appropriate for the franchise, so there's obviously a wide window for subjective interpretation here. As I said before, I don't see what makes the design so "generic", except perhaps the natural thematic choices associated with the Kid Icarus universe to begin with. Can you describe in more detail what isn't iconic or interesting about Pit's design? Better yet, post some concrete examples of the direction you think would be better, starting with these supposedly superior manga examples you cite.

 

[civilstrife]

Factor 5's Pit character render is incredi-bad.

Seriously, who in their right mind would want that? This combined with Factor-5's pedigree of beyond horrible on-foot gameplay leaves me with a huge sense of dread for this game --if it's still in development.

Here's a sample of somebody playing a Rebel Strike on-foot level WELL. Just imagine how it plays normally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZeAeBAo-IhA

 

[yoopoo]

This is even worse http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGzJKC8Qv9w

Whats with the camera angles? :lol

 

[civilstrife]

I remember the Degobah level being especially horrendous. It was some side-scrolling nightmare with instant death traps and the same kind of unresponsive platforming seen in that Sarlac pit video. I couldn't believe it was from the same studio that seemingly put so much care into their flight combat.

I'd love to find a video.

Edit: Here we go! It's as bad as I remember.

 

[Black-Wind]

I personally find his design unique, appealing, and totally appropriate for the franchise, so there's obviously a wide window for subjective interpretation here.

Thats all find and what not. I like his design to and I feel like its pretty much spot on for what it is and its damn appropriate as a repersentation for his character.
But all these feelings apply directly torwards what his design was made for . . . which was brawl. Its find for brawl but I don't think it's a stand alone design that could hold it's own game. With out the brawl stating it looks pretty mute.

As I said before, I don't see what makes the design so "generic", except perhaps the natural thematic choices associated with the Kid Icarus universe to begin with. Can you describe in more detail what isn't iconic or interesting about Pit's design?

He looks like a side character from Kingdom Hearts. Not the "star", not a "side kick" but a side character from some "Heaven" themed level.

Even Sakurai said that he designed Pitt with the thought of making him look like "whats popular today". Like I said, he turned out good but not what I would call the stand alone main character of a series.

Better yet, post some concrete examples of the direction you think would be better, starting with these supposedly superior manga examples you cite.

I would like to point out that I never trashed the complete character design from brawl.
Actually I said that it would be nice if one of the more brawl looking concept designs looked more like the brawl design. But, seeing as you want to know the manga I feel better exacute the "angel" theme I guess I have to cite them. >_>

First, I would like to point out that KI mixes both Christian and Greek themes to mold it's fantasy world soo all of my examples are the more common "Super Christian" characters in the manga that I thought of such as Tamaki from Blazer Drive or Cross from 666 Satan (both could look relatively good as main character designs if given afew changes).

But I don't think you want to know all the manga that I feel better pull off the "angel/ Super Christian" look cause that really don't have anything to do with how I feel the main lead of a KI Wii game should look

 

[Vinci]

I thought of such as Tamaki from Blazer Drive -

Haven't read Blazer Drive, so could you please post a pic or something? The only one I found off a Google search makes me question your choice quite a bit.

- or Cross from 666 Satan

So you want him to look like a Naruto design?

In either case, I don't see anything that makes them better than the current design. The only thing about this one is we have a limited number of angles to appreciate it from.

 

[drohne]

This is the only Kid Icarus I will be able to accept at this point (having seen this image and now being ruined on anything else):

this is such a cool image -- it's even got an upscaled xtra large enemy sprite like treasure sometimes uses

 

[Cygnus X-1]

This comes from a former Factor 5 employee and was done in late 2007/early 2008. So it might have been an early pitch only.

Actually, it looks like a N64 model with some additional shading effect. If this was the beginning, I'm glad that I don't have to see the final result.

 

[DDayton]

No one in their right mind could possibly have conceived that as a good idea. Especially after pit was already redesigned.


...then again this is the company that shipped Lair.

Maybe that's the "grown up" Pit and you start the game as a "child" Pit.... or .....

I don't know. It's baffling, yet somehow that art LOOKS like something I'd expect from Factor 5, for some reason.

 

[Black-Wind]

Haven't read Blazer Drive, so could you please post a pic or something? The only one I found off a Google search makes me question your choice quite a bit.

Miss super Christian

Only used them as examples of "super christians" with more interesting designs than Brawl Pit. With a few changes she could look like a cool main character . . . but I rarly see "Super Christian" main characters (if ever).

So you want him to look like a Naruto design?

lol, 666 Satan may have Naruto like style but they are very much different in more than one way. (And 666 Satan creator also made Blazer Drive)

In either case, I don't see anything that makes them better than the current design.

This was purely from a " Manga/ Anime super Christian character design" angle. I should probly look for angel characters but that would be abit too easy :lol

None of those where examples of how I think Pitt should look or how I would want a game character to look, simply the "anime super christian style" that I saw as being better/ more interesting designs anime wise.

 

[Regulus Tera]

Actually, it looks like a N64 model with some additional shading effect. If this was the beginning, I'm glad that I don't have to see the final result.

The design is horrible, but it certainly does not look like a N64 model.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

The design is horrible, but it certainly does not look like a N64 model.

Mmm.

Yeah, you can see the difference of course. But it's not that huge. Actually, it's difficult to compare a toon-design to a "realistic" one.

 

[Regulus Tera]

A better example would be to compare that model to Sin and Punishment's, which are semi-realistic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmxanWXvAgA&fmt=18

"Man Icarus" up there looks more like a first-generation PS2 render to me. People tend to over-exaggerate with lo-poly characters these days. The N64/PSX era had very rough building blocks, even at its very end.

 

[Scrow]

It’s also terribly boring.

It’s a great, nay perfect, re-design for a game like Brawl, but as the standout hero of his own adventure? Nothing stands out and facially he looks far too generic, ala Kingdom Hearts or something like that.

Nintendo could whip up something better.

i think brawl pit looks fine.

Actually, it looks like a N64 model with some additional shading effect.

there's no way that was intended for N64. too much detail in the model and the textures. more likely gamecube.

 

[jrricky]

Actually, it looks like a N64 model with some additional shading effect. If this was the beginning, I'm glad that I don't have to see the final result.

I hate these obscene statements.:lol :lol

 

[GrotesqueBeauty]

I was going to go on an unnecessarily lengthy diatribe Black-Wind, but after seeing what you consider more interesting design I think it's safe to skip all that and just agree to disagree. Not to be cheeky, but the characters you mentioned look like Castlevania Judgment rejects. I find Pit's design a lot more sophisticated. To each their own.

 

[Loxley]

Factor 5 doesn't make good games. They make pretty games, but not good games. so it won't be a shame to see them go. Hopefully the employees find jobs at better developers headed by better project leaders.

Yeah, it won't be a shame to see them go and see a ton of people lose their jobs in the midst of the worst economic crisis in 75 years. With many independent/smaller studios shutting down and bigger developers/publishers doing more firing and less hiring these days, they should have no problem finding jobs in the industry if they're all sacked, right?

Despite how you feel about their games, these are still hard-working people we're talking about here. I don't care how shitty a developers' games are, at this point in time I would hate for anyone to lose their job.

 

[civilstrife]

Yeah, it won't be a shame to see them go and see a ton of people lose their jobs in the midst of the worst economic crisis in 75 years. With many independent/smaller studios shutting down and bigger developers/publishers doing more firing and less hiring these days, they should have no problem finding jobs in the industry if they're all sacked, right?

Despite how you feel about their games, these are still hard-working people we're talking about here. I don't care how shitty a developers' games are, at this point in time I would hate for anyone to lose their job.

Spare us the waterworks. Developers that release poor games deserve to go under. It's a shame that when developing for HD consoles, one such failure can mean the end for a smaller company, but these people provide a non-essential service. They go in with the expectation that they must perform to survive.

 

[Azure J]

I'm going to be particularly late with this response but:

Wait, wait, wait... the was a StarTropics 3?! I was a mega-fan of the series, yet I've never even heard of a third one being in the works! Screenshots/Info?

There was something of a short teaser in one Nintendo Power quite a while back (we're talking 94 - 95 here) for another entry in the series. It was also listed in one of the older upcoming games lists for a few issues until it just vanished from the radar in a way that makes Kid Icarus' extended absence look like nothing big. Sad too, that was one of my top 3 classic NES franchises. Now then, back on topic.

The Brawl Pit render with the organic & somewhat realistic wings has always seemed to be the best of the bunch to me. They were obviously trying to make him more acceptable by donning a style that was more true to the times, but even while doing this the team was able to create something of a unique character design while staying mostly true to the older designs. If anything, I say let that style of Pit have at least one outing then, if the majority still feel like something more different is necessary, then go for a change. They already have something good going, why risk screwing it up when they have so much potential to go with already?

And yeah, the old story for Kid Icarus was pretty damn grand in scope despite the simpleness of the NES limited first game. :lol

 

[tahrikmili]

They bet on the wrong boat.

 

[nightside]

Oh, you are refering to Nintendo styled?

Well than I just out right dissagree. >_>

I want my Nitnendo characters to look like Nintendo characters which is one bad thing about them outsourcing games.

that's exactly what i was tryin to say:lol

 

[EmCeeGramr]

http://wii.ign.com/articles/953/953134p1.html

Hi Matt, or whoever is reading this. Has there been any indication, after the closing of Factor 5, if the rumored Kid Icarus game has ceased development (or has it transferred into Nintendo's developers hands)? What about the supposed Superman game that had me salivating at the mouth? Have you heard anything like somebody picking it up, much like Atari picked up Ghostbusters?

I'm sure there are at least a couple of readers looking at this and scratching their heads because most of this stuff falls into rumor territory. Let me quickly recap. A while ago, a source of mine saw Kid Icarus for Wii, developed by Factor 5. As usual, as soon as I heard about it, I began hinting about the news in podcasts and the like because I am a blabbermouth. Soon after, another site – think it was ***** -- ran rumored art from Kid Icarus Wii. And we've seen a few more bits of 3D character models since then. All the while, it's never been confirmed officially and, as any 11-year-old Casamassina-hating douchebag on NeoGAF will tell you, I supposedly made it all up, etc. Thing is, I didn't. Don't really have anything to gain by creating fiction. Not getting paid by the word over here.

If Factor 5 had an official Kid Icarus contract with Nintendo, though, I don't think the company would be in the state it's in – completely unresponsive. Today, I called president Julian Eggebrecht, as I do weekly, for any sort of news on what's going on over there following all kinds of rampant rumors of the studio's demise, and once more only got his answering message. Moreover, I couldn't even leave a message because his mailbox is full. Now, if funding was still coming in for such a project, I have to think F5 would be operational in some capacity, which – and this is anecdotally given I can't get a hold of anyone over there – it doesn't seem to be.

The other possibility is that Factor 5 started on Kid Icarus in good faith that a great playable would land it the contract with Nintendo. Not out of the question given the company's relationship with the Big N already. Remember, it was involved with GameCube early and co-developed the audio technology. It also pushed the system harder than most with titles like Rogue Squadron and was at one time officially partnered with Nintendo – Iwata even announced it at a long-ago E3 – to create some first-party game. It was Pilot Wings and unfortunately that too never went anywhere.

Now, supposing F5 was officially on board with Nintendo for Kid Icarus before all of this Superman / Brash Entertainment nonsense supposedly obliterated the company, yeah, the chances are damned good the project would continue. But I'm inclined to believe the opposite is true – that it never had the contract and that Kid Icarus for Wii might go down with the company. Certainly doesn't mean we won't ever see Kid Icarus for Wii because Nintendo definitely knows gamers want to see the return of the franchise – just might happen with another studio.

-- Matt

lolz

 

[Stumpokapow]

so in other words halo ds 2 and matt still hasn't learned to distinguish between "are working on a pitch" and "are working on a game".

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

so in other words halo ds 2 and matt still hasn't learned to distinguish between "are working on a pitch" and "are working on a game".

Well that sucks, doesn't it? I wanted me some non-broken-difficulty Kid Icarus action.

 

[Father_Brain]

so in other words halo ds 2 and matt still hasn't learned to distinguish between "are working on a pitch" and "are working on a game".

That's a valid criticism, but it's still a long ways away from "he pulled the whole thing out of his ass," like many GAFfers baselessly asserted after the E3 no-show.

In the case of Halo, I don't think he ever suggested that it was more than a concept demo. But I could be wrong.

 

[FrankT]

New thread worthy imo

 

[Stumpokapow]

That's a valid criticism, but it's still a long ways away from "he pulled the whole thing out of his ass," like many GAFfers baselessly asserted after the E3 no-show.

In the case of Halo, I don't think he ever suggested that it was more than a concept demo. But I could be wrong.

No one thinks he invents things wholesale, honestly. He's clearly too well connected for that. He just... well, in an effort to share stuff with his readers (commendable) sometimes gets a little excited and stuff doesn't get conveyed with moderating language. If you run that through an "angry on the internet filter" I'm sure you get the average GAF post about him.

 

[Darkpen]

Looks like something an 8th grader would draw.

:lol no kidding. The dude's face looks like something out of a 90's manga style, or worse yet, that Shenmue guy.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I just scrolled up and saw the "Man Icarus" character model... ugh. It was just so bad.

 

[Black-Wind]

That's a valid criticism, but it's still a long ways away from "he pulled the whole thing out of his ass," like many GAFfers baselessly asserted after the E3 no-show.

In the case of Halo, I don't think he ever suggested that it was more than a concept demo. But I could be wrong.

Well, he clearly pulled SOME shit out of his ass.

I remember him saying OVER and OVER that KI was going to be at E3 08 . . . no ifs, just out right "what will Nintendo show at E3? How many times do I have to say it, Kid Icarus!".

Funny, Komb-o (w/e the site was that revealed the concept art) was way more spot on . . . they openly refered to it as a pitch project that Nintendo was said to express interest in but there were no solid plans laid down. I wouldn't have thought it would have been that hard to simply call it a pitch but I guess Matt was just shooting for the stars . .

 

[Father_Brain]

I remember him saying OVER and OVER that KI was going to be at E3 08 . . . no ifs, just out right "what will Nintendo show at E3? How many times do I have to say it, Kid Icarus!".

Link? I recall him saying that he expected it to be at E3, but never as a statement of fact.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Link? I recall him saying that he expected it to be at E3, but never as a statement of fact.

I'm not personally sure, but whatever the case if a broad spectrum of people read him in a certain way he needs to be conscious about it and change his communication style to reflect that.

Just like the guy on Joystick who had "big news" about the Wii, its not necessarily what you say, it's how people think you mean it.

 

[Black-Wind]

Link? I recall him saying that he expected it to be at E3, but never as a statement of fact.

Link? More than one old ass podcast where he slowly goes from "hinting" at KI to simply outright saying a line very much like that which I posted when he answered someone's "reader mail".