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Factor 5 / White Harvest: Wii Project Cancelled



RPG?
RPG?
 

laserbeam

Banned
So that slide says Nintendo is working with them on a project. Maybe that Kid Icarus stuff is true?

Unannounced Publisher is guaranteed to be Lucasarts with RS4
 

spidye

Member
Andrex said:
Super-man. When Brash pulled out it was the beginning of the end for F5.
why had brash the rights to superman? wasn't ea the license holder? I've never heard of brash.
 
laserbeam said:
So that slide says Nintendo is working with them on a project. Maybe that Kid Icarus stuff is true?

Unannounced Publisher is guaranteed to be Lucasarts with RS4





The starman in the first image almost confirms that this is pilotwings
 
Blackbird| said:




The starman in the first image almost confirms that this is pilotwings


They were working on a Pilotwings game on the Gamecube.
Could be a port of the assets.
Either way, Pilotwings on Wii is a perfect fit. Not having it would be a huge waste (of course, I'm still waiting on a new 1080 and Wave Race).
 

jacksrb

Member
Interesting...

As many know, Blue Harvest was the fake film name used during the production of Return of the Jedi. That makes White Harvest an interesting name choice. Harvesting dollars from all those Hoth levels, amirite?

That said, I would love to see more Wii content (like a new Rogue Squadron) as they always get the most of the system. Hell, RS2 would be in the top 10 best looking Wii games, to me.
 

Syckx

Member
spidye said:
why had brash the rights to superman? wasn't ea the license holder? I've never heard of brash.

Brash had the rights for Superman because of their working relationship with Warner Bros. If I remember correctly, EA had the rights to a game based on the movie Superman Returns, and Brash was making a game based on the comic book. I may be wrong about the relationships involved, but Brash was working on Superman, Clash of the Titans, SAW and Where the Wild Things Are when they imploded. And as much of a joke as it seems, Factor 5 was working on a Kid Icarus game and it looked stupid.
 

cuyahoga

Dudebro, My Shit is Fucked Up So I Got to Shoot/Slice You II: It's Straight-Up Dawg Time
laserbeam said:
So that slide says Nintendo is working with them on a project. Maybe that Kid Icarus stuff is true?

Unannounced Publisher is guaranteed to be Lucasarts with RS4
I should note that the DDM does not represent Factor 5 anymore (as Factor 5 doesn't really exist anymore), and the slide is from nearly a year ago.



Syckx said:
Brash had the rights for Superman because of their working relationship with Warner Bros. If I remember correctly, EA had the rights to a game based on the movie Superman Returns, and Brash was making a game based on the comic book.
If it was comic book only, how do you explain this Julian Eggebrecht quote from the Superman press release? I think it is plausible that it was for the off-on Superman Unleashed that Bryan Singer was attached to, no? Also, I believe all of EA's options for WB properties expired at the end of last year.

We’re already working on a title that is more than two years out, and because the filmmaker is a game fan who is really excited about how we want to expand on the story of the film, we’ve been given a lot of latitude. It’s been really fun to dig deep into this universe.
 

Shiggy

Member
AceBandage said:
They were working on a Pilotwings game on the Gamecube.
Could be a port of the assets.
Either way, Pilotwings on Wii is a perfect fit. Not having it would be a huge waste (of course, I'm still waiting on a new 1080 and Wave Race).

Those assets were made for Wii, no porting was involved ;)

With regard to Superman, here you can find some images and a video:
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/03/10/alleged-screens-and-video-from-factor-5s-canned-superman-game/
The battle against Doomsday was shaping up very nicely imo.


And as much of a joke as it seems, Factor 5 was working on a Kid Icarus game and it looked stupid.
Do you mind giving some details?
 

Cheerilee

Member
Blackbird| said:


The starman in the first image almost confirms that this is pilotwings
That's Mann's Chinese Theater in Hollywood. Those stars represent the Walk of Fame, which runs right in front of it.
 

Shiggy

Member
ruby_onix said:
That's Mann's Chinese Theater in Hollywood. Those stars represent the Walk of Fame, which runs right in front of it.

Most of the assets were based on real-world locations (see Big Ben, Castle of Sao Jorge, Moon)
 

NR1

Member
Here some more information I dug up with a quick Google search:

Kevin Reilly Resume said:
Factor 5 was my most recent place of employment where I was brought on as a Jr. Game Designer. I was working on an unannounced casual title for the Nintendo Wii.

My main duties were to implement missions based on the activities outlined in the design doc. Most of what I did was to create fun missions/activities using object placement. We had "design kits" which were essentially just a group of assets that were made to function with certain mission types. How they were placed throughout the environment determined the experience given to the player. For example, if a mission was to destroy a number of targets I would vary the mission by changing the number, type, and placement of the targets. The missions were designed to be played in 5-15 minute increments and players had a wide variety of activities to choose from.

...

I loved working on this project because it taught me a lot about designing for casual players as opposed to my previous experience designing for the hardcore players.

...

Link:http://www.reillygames.com/games.htm


Drew Langlois Resume said:
SHIPPED TITLES <----- Shipped?!?

-Title Classified- March 2008 to Dec 2008
Developer: Factor 5
Platform: Nintendo Wii
Publisher: Classified
Lead Systems Designer on a casual title for the Wii.

-Title Classified- Aug 2007 to March 2008
Developer: Factor 5
Platform: Nintendo Wii
Publisher: Classified
Lead Designer on a 3rd person shooter featuring ground and arial combat.

Link:http://drewlanglois.com/resume.html

Title #1: The same one that Kevin Reilly was working on and likely published by Nintendo.

Title #2: Clearly a Rogue Squadron title published by LucasArts.

Ryan Bond Resume said:
Associate Producer, Engine Tech / Tools / Tech-Art / Build Engineering / Production Test: FACTOR 5, INC.
LAIR(PS3)
UNANNOUNCED WII TITLE 1
UNANNOUNCED MOVIE TIE-IN (PS3, 360, WII) <----- Superman
UNANNOUNCED WII TITLE 2

UNANNOUNCED LICENSED TECHNOLOGY PACKAGE (WINPC).

Link: http://ryanbond.net/resume/
 

TunaLover

Member
Blackbird| said:
A compilation of 3 old games taking more time to be made than a brand new game ? looks strange for me

Compilation? Rebel Strike contains the exact missions as Rogue Leader in co-op mode, doesn´t make much sense that compilation, even the first one was a N64 game.
 

cuyahoga

Dudebro, My Shit is Fucked Up So I Got to Shoot/Slice You II: It's Straight-Up Dawg Time
NR1 said:
Title #1: The same one that Kevin Reilly was working on and likely published by Nintendo.

Title #2: Clearly a Rogue Squadron title published by LucasArts.
I think it is possible you might have those backwards, unless Kid Icarus was nipped in the bud earlier.
 

NR1

Member
cuyahoga said:
I think it is possible you might have those backwards, unless Kid Icarus was nipped in the bud earlier.

Rogue Squadron as a casual game with a wide variety of activities to choose from lasting 5 to 15 minutes? That sounds more like PilotWings to me. Skydiving, parachuting, hang gliding, jet pack, and gyrocopter missions all run about that length of time plus those are all fairly "casual" activities in a video game (think Wii Sports). Combat missions set in the Star Wars universe seem more "hardcore" to me.

If there is a Kid Icarus game being developed, then its by Retro Studios, in my opinion. Factor 5 may have had an early hand in it at some point, but it was taken away by Nintendo early in development.
 

cuyahoga

Dudebro, My Shit is Fucked Up So I Got to Shoot/Slice You II: It's Straight-Up Dawg Time
NR1 said:
Rogue Squadron as a casual game with missions lasting 5 to 15 minutes? That sounds more like PilotWings to me. Skydiving, parachuting, hang gliding, jet pack, and gyrocopter missions all run about that length of time plus those are all fairly "casual" activities in a video game (think Wii Sports). Combat missions set in the Star Wars universe seem more "hardcore" to me.

If there is a Kid Icarus game being developed, then its by Retro Studios, in my opinion. Factor 5 may have had an early hand in it at some point, but it was taken away by Nintendo early in development.
No, it wouldn't be Rogue Squadron, but a pick-up-and-play Star Wars Wii game makes sense to me. Factor 5 was definitely working on Kid Icarus at one point (entirely possibly it could have been an unsolicited pitch, though), but the consensus seems that its pretty dead.
 
The leaked assets,casual,mission based,5 to 10 minutes,various ativities,everything confirms pilotwings.

Factor 5 started making a kid icarus pitch for nintendo,nintendo recused,factor 5 proposed pilotwings nintendo accept,this is my guess.

The only estrange thing is that they dont have a publisher for one of the games,lucas arts are the only publisher that have the star wars franchise,maybe nintendo cacncelled pilotwings and they working to remove the references and turn the game into a new franchise to a new publisher
 
Shiggy said:
There was another game in development which was cancelled only last month. Started in February, the project is said to have been a conversion of a large open world game, probably Superman. However, it seems as if the publisher (EA?) did not have enough faith in the game. As a result, layoffs happened again.

Brutal Legend is an EA-published large open world game where a Wii conversion might have been recently cancelled.

Just sayin'...
 

Animator

Member
I used to work at F5 before the shit hit the fan but from what I heard from ex-coworkers I wouldnt expect any new game from them. As far as I know they are completely done for and still owe shitloads of money to the employees.
 

Kandinsky

Member
Animator said:
I used to work at F5 before the shit hit the fan but from what I heard from ex-coworkers I wouldnt expect any new game from them. As far as I know they are completely done for and still owe shitloads of money to the employees.
Like i said in another thread, i fking hate this generation.
 

Shiggy

Member
[Nintex] said:
So if there's one or two titles coming out this year why haven't they announced them yet?

I really don't know. Achim Moller still lists both Wii Games for a release in 2009 - that's probably when they are finished.

@NR1
A 3rd person shooter for the Nintendo Wii featuring seamless ground and aerial combat.

Lead a cross-disciplinary team of artists, designers and programmers in the creation of a playable prototype. Major design work included player camera and controls.
--> Rogue Squadron

A highly accessible game for the Nintendo Wii focusing on many of the features unique to the Wii and Factor 5's strengths.
--> Pilotwings (or a flight game, in case Nintendo is no longer publishing it)

And "UNANNOUNCED LICENSED TECHNOLOGY PACKAGE (WINPC).", that's Xaitment AI.


@Blackbird|
After the Project HAMMER "debacle" I do not want to link to people resumes as they are probably not allowed to post such things. In addition, I always hope that there will be more news coming from those spots ;)
Otherweise I would post so much more which shouldn't be found on the internet (but in most cases superannuation links to them and then I am not the "bad guy" ;) )


@Not A Fur
That's what I was thinking about. But actually, the Factor 5 port was cancelled in July - news about the Brutal Legend Wii cancellation hit the web in June.

@Animator
After the EA port was cancelled, huge layoffs happened at WhiteHarvest. You know, the team wasn't as large as during in last December, but still. Now they are desperately seeking new projects as there current two games will be finished this year (if they aren't already!). It would be great if you could provide more information on the LucasArts and Nintendo projects or tell us why you believe both will not be released. Achim Moller seemed pretty confident that they will hit the shelves.
 

wsippel

Banned
Animator said:
I used to work at F5 before the shit hit the fan but from what I heard from ex-coworkers I wouldnt expect any new game from them. As far as I know they are completely done for and still owe shitloads of money to the employees.
It really depends on how they structured the company. It's possible/ likely that Factor5 LLC is done for (and maybe even White Harvest LLC), but it's also possible that Factor5 GmbH is completely unaffected by this and doesn't have to pay anyone - if it actually officially is a completely separate entity. And that seems to be the case. You can do really funky stuff in that regard with GmbHs/ LLCs, at least according to German law. I know several guys who ran GmbHs in the ground, just to reopen another GmbH pretty much instantly and continue exactly where they left, without any obligations whatsoever.
 

laserbeam

Banned
wsippel said:
It really depends on how they structured the company. It's possible/ likely that Factor5 LLC is done for (and maybe even White Harvest LLC), but it's also possible that Factor5 GmbH is completely unaffected by this and doesn't have to pay anyone - if it actually officially is a completely separate entity. And that seems to be the case. You can do really funky stuff in that regard with GmbHs/ LLCs, at least according to German law. I know several guys who ran GmbHs in the ground, just to reopen another GmbH pretty much instantly and continue exactly where they left, without any obligations whatsoever.

And based on the employee complaints that seems to be exactly what they have done. Former Employees have said they took the work and assets and continued work at the GmBH.

Rogue Squadron is a big enough franchise with a deep pocket backer it will get done.
 
Shiggy said:
I really don't know. Achim Moller still lists both Wii Games for a release in 2009 - that's probably when they are finished.

@NR1

--> Rogue Squadron


--> Pilotwings (or a flight game, in case Nintendo is no longer publishing it)

And "UNANNOUNCED LICENSED TECHNOLOGY PACKAGE (WINPC).", that's Xaitment AI.


@Blackbird|
After the Project HAMMER "debacle" I do not want to link to people resumes as they are probably not allowed to post such things. In addition, I always hope that there will be more news coming from those spots ;)
Otherweise I would post so much more which shouldn't be found on the internet (but in most cases superannuation links to them and then I am not the "bad guy" ;) )


@Not A Fur
That's what I was thinking about. But actually, the Factor 5 port was cancelled in July - news about the Brutal Legend Wii cancellation hit the web in June.

@Animator
After the EA port was cancelled, huge layoffs happened at WhiteHarvest. You know, the team wasn't as large as during in last December, but still. Now they are desperately seeking new projects as there current two games will be finished this year (if they aren't already!). It would be great if you could provide more information on the LucasArts and Nintendo projects or tell us why you believe both will not be released. Achim Moller seemed pretty confident that they will hit the shelves.


If they have a game that have a publisher,will be released this year and wasn't been announced i think that nintendo is confirmed,i dont know any other company that announce games 2-3 months prior the release.
 

wsippel

Banned
laserbeam said:
And based on the employee complaints that seems to be exactly what they have done. Former Employees have said they took the work and assets and continued work at the GmBH.

Rogue Squadron is a big enough franchise with a deep pocket backer it will get done.
That's what I think. Like I said, I don't exactly know how LLCs work in the US, but a GmbH works pretty much like this: In a best case scenario, the GmbH owns nothing. Everything that's bought, acquired or invented gets assigned to another entity, be it a person or an independent company. If the GmbH goes down, the owners only lose the initial deposit required to found a GmbH, usually €25,000. And that's it. Regardless of what the company owes anyone. The owners could be millionaires, they wouldn't have to pay jack, and they'd keep all the IP. They would be free to cough up another €25,000 to found a new GmbH and continue, without any obligations whatsoever.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Shiggy said:
--> Rogue Squadron

I thought their last, and ultimately cancelled, Rogue Squadron game was that Xbox multiplayer title and port of the three Rogue Squardon games.

Honestly, I'm just really skeptical anything will come out of anybody resembling Factor 5. If Factor 5 / White Harvest have two Wii titles expected to hit by the end of the year, why have they not been announced? It's mid September. There's still time, but you'd think they'd want to drum up some public interest, especially considering company difficulties and the guarentied attention from a new Rogue Squadron.
 
Dreamwriter said:
Hopefully this new company kept the amazing technical talent Factor 5 had and did away with the horrible game designers. After a certain point, every game they made was technologically better...but played worse. Imagine if the technology behind Lair had been put into a *good* game!


or imagine if they didn't have to wrestle with quaint technology and the engine made it easy to design the game.


being too tech focused has a downside.
 

Shiggy

Member
EatChildren said:
I thought their last, and ultimately cancelled, Rogue Squadron game was that Xbox multiplayer title and port of the three Rogue Squardon games.

Honestly, I'm just really skeptical anything will come out of anybody resembling Factor 5. If Factor 5 / White Harvest have two Wii titles expected to hit by the end of the year, why have they not been announced? It's mid September. There's still time, but you'd think they'd want to drum up some public interest, especially considering company difficulties and the guarentied attention from a new Rogue Squadron.

It's not Factor 5 that decides when to present a game. When Factor 5 USA closed, Achim Moller said that projects will be revealed in the coming months. At least Nintendo is known for announcing games only a few days before release. Their two latest projects were Rogue Squadron for LucasArts (see lawsuit) and Pilotwings for Nintendo (see leaked assets and DMA list), in addition to a port for EA which was only started when WhiteHarvest was already founded.

Still, I assume that Rogue Squadron will be published by LucasArts while Nintendo will no longer publish the flight project. Achim Moller says that one game has a publisher and the other one does not. Changing a Star Wars game into a "neutral" franchise is much more difficult than trying that with a Pilotwings title.

White Harvest LLC seems to employ only a handful of people nowadays, it might be that they are more or less done with their projects. Until finding a new project, they may keep only a few employees. Closing White Harvest would probably also mean a closure of Factor 5 GmbH.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Shiggy said:
It's not Factor 5 that decides when to present a game. When Factor 5 USA closed, Achim Moller said that projects will be revealed in the coming months. At least Nintendo is known for announcing games only a few days before release. Their two latest projects were Rogue Squadron for LucasArts (see lawsuit) and Pilotwings for Nintendo (see leaked assets and DMA list), in addition to a port for EA which was only started when WhiteHarvest was already founded.

Still, I assume that Rogue Squadron will be published by LucasArts while Nintendo will no longer publish the flight project. Achim Moller says that one game has a publisher and the other one does not. Changing a Star Wars game into a "neutral" franchise is much more difficult than trying that with a Pilotwings title.

White Harvest LLC seems to employ only a handful of people nowadays, it might be that they are more or less done with their projects. Until finding a new project, they may keep only a few employees. Closing White Harvest would probably also mean a closure of Factor 5 GmbH.

So, what, the Pilot Wings-esque game is the one with the publisher, or Rogue Squadron? I'm figuring the former, with them reworking content for the new publisher, as it seems the most likely reason to not have it announced yet.

I just don't see why a hypothetical Rogue Squadron Wii game, practically complete and published by LucasArts, would still be under wraps if launching this year. They were definitely working on it, but I'm under the impression it's dead.
 

Shiggy

Member
EatChildren said:
So, what, the Pilot Wings-esque game is the one with the publisher, or Rogue Squadron? I'm figuring the former, with them reworking content for the new publisher, as it seems the most likely reason to not have it announced yet.

I just don't see why a hypothetical Rogue Squadron Wii game, practically complete and published by LucasArts, would still be under wraps if launching this year. They were definitely working on it, but I'm under the impression it's dead.

I'd say Rogue Squadron is the one with the publisher. Both Wii projects are not dead, Achim Moller just reconfirmed that both are to be finished this year. I cannot answer the other question though as I don't know it; I also don't think that either of the games will be released this year.
 

Shiggy

Member
Those were from the flight project, I believe. Please upload them on picamatic.com or somewhere else though.
 
Things have changed since our last Factor 5 feature.




In May 2009, Achim Moller, CEO of the German Factor 5 GmbH, officially announced the closure of the San Rafael branch of Factor 5. "The continuation of operations" proved to be impossible, citing "the sudden bankruptcy of Brash Entertainment" as a reason. Debts of the San Rafael based studio had increased due to outstanding payments by Brash. Still Factor 5 did have other investors; they did not only work on Superman, which was internally known as "Blue Steel".


Nintendo and LucasArts were their other two major partners. Both publishers were afraid that Factor 5 could use their money for paying off debts instead of using it for game development. There was the danger of Factor 5 shutting down without delivering any of titles.
The heads of Factor 5 had to find a solution, they did not want to lay off their remaining employees and lose their contracts with Nintendo and LucasArts or any of their own assets.

That is where the German branch came to help. Assets of Factor 5 Inc. (US branch) including Turrican, Katakis and Denaris were all transferred to Factor 5 GmbH in Germany. Factor 5 GmbH was founded by Achim Moller, who was part of the original Factor 5 but did not relocate when the team moved from Germany to the US in 1995. In 2002, however, decreasing costs of fast internet connections and a high data volume allowed him to work for his former studio again. His first project was a port of the DivX player for the Nintendo GameCube, after that the studio in Cologne worked on the VFX in Star Wars Rogue Squadron III.

"Although we are saddened by Factor 5 Inc.'s situation, our corporation will remain unaffected by these developments." One could get the impression that Factor 5 GmbH was entirely independent and that they had always owned Turrican and other Factor 5 properties. Anyhow, this is not the case. Factor 5 GmbH had never developed a game on their own as they consisted of only a handful of employees until now.



Pilotwings


Having resolved issues related to Factor 5 Inc.-owned assets, there still was the problem of losing support of Nintendo or LucasArts. Factor 5 GmbH did not have the capacities to develop their titles unless some US employees would have relocated back to Germany (which they certainly did not want to). But they also found a solution for this issue. The remaining US employees moved to a new studio: BlueHarvest LLC, soon to be renamed as WhiteHarvest LLC. Nintendo and LucasArts gave the permission to work on Factor 5 Inc. titles to Factor 5 GmbH which licensed development of both of their Wii titles to WhiteHarvest LLC, which was founded immediately after Factor 5 Inc.'s closure in December 2008. One of their games was a new entry in the Rogue Squadron series, internally codenamed as Blue Harvest, the other one was a new Pilotwings title for Nintendo. In February 2009, WhiteHarvest LLC and Factor 5 GmbH pulled another coup: Electronic Arts contracted them for a third Wii title. Despite other reports, this was not a conversion of their cancelled PS3/Xbox 360 title Superman. It was a Wii conversion of Double Fine Productions' Brütal Legend. WhiteHarvest LLC rehired several former Factor 5 employees to manage work on all three projects.



Double Fine's Brütal Legend


Bad news did not arrive until a lawsuit hit the company. Laid off Factor 5 staff and debtors noticed that the studio transferred assets to their German branch before filing bankruptcy to avoid paying any debts.

James Smith, a San Francisco lawyer representing the employees, put it in a nutshell:
"We believe and have alleged in the complaint that Factor 5 and White Harvest are essentially the same company, being run by the same people, being represented by the same sets of lawyers, with all the same management and ownership and control, performing all the same work that they were doing at Factor 5, just now with a new name and a new address."

Smith also stated that work on the new Rogue Squadron title and Pilotwings, which was done at Factor 5 Inc., was transferred to WhiteHarvest LLC. It must be noted that this was not unlawful. Work done on both projects had been property of LucasArts and Nintendo. Both companies could have transferred the work done at Factor 5 to any studio they may have wanted to. In this case it was WhiteHarvest LLC as their employees already knew the games.

At the end of June, Brütal Legend for Wii was cancelled. Technical and quality concerns were part of the decision, as Destructoid reported. These resulted from EA's desire to release Brütal Legend for Wii around the same time as the Double Fine version hit the shelves. Meeting these requirements was all but possible for WhiteHarvest LLC.

As a result of the failure of their EA project, WhiteHarvest LLC had to lay off most - if not all - of their employees in July. However, Achim Moller of Factor 5 GmbH recently assured that both of their other Wii titles could have been released in 2009, indicating that Rogue Squadron and Pilotwings have been finished. Moller admits, nonetheless, that Factor 5 is unsure whether both of these titles will see a release, suggesting that either Nintendo or LucasArts are not confident on publishing their Factor 5-developed game.





The future of Factor 5 may not look bright. But Moller is actively trying to find new projects for his studio. He wants to establish the recently founded Factor 5 Media Productions GmbH as a new German development studio which is no longer dependent on an US branch. Best of luck!



http://goneisgone.blogspot.com/
 
Wow - so they were involved with Brutal Legend as well?

Still not entirely clear on what they were doing with PilotWings - did they initiate the project themselves and try to sell it to Nintendo, or was it given to them by Nintendo?
 

goomba

Banned
Blackbird| said:
Factor 5 GmbH recently assured that both of their other Wii titles could have been released in 2009, indicating that Rogue Squadron and Pilotwings have been finished. Moller admits, nonetheless, that Factor 5 is unsure whether both of these titles will see a release, suggesting that either Nintendo or LucasArts are not confident on publishing their Factor 5-developed game.



http://goneisgone.blogspot.com/

GIVEEE THEM TO MEEE

EA strikes again :(
 

[Nintex]

Member
A new Rogue Squadron and Pilotwings would make Nintendo's holiday a whole lot better. Release them already!

I also don't understand why Nintendo hasn't bought Factor 5 yet. They must be a bargain at the moment and despite the failure of LAIR, the studio has a good track record.
 
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