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[Bassmastergeneral]

Just a little correction: even though both Sorcerian Complete and the Dragon Slayer Chronicle include the PC-98 version of Sorcerian, the original debuted on the PC-88 first. Not sure if there's any difference between both, though - I think the PC-98 one has a better scrolling?

Loving the pictures on your Tumblr, BTW.

...

(IIRC, the Falcom Special Box '91 includes the MSX soundtrack, along with another couple of cool stuff. Not sure how difficult it would be to track down though.)

Thanks! You're right the Sorcerian complete collection has the PC-9801 version, I'm not sure of the difference but I bet you are right about the scrolling, this version played really well and the scrolling wasn't overly choppy. The Dragon Slayer Chronicle actually does have the original PC-8801 version of Sorcerian so I will give it a shot sometime to see if I notice any difference.

And yeah I can confirm that the included Drasle Family soundtrack from the DS Chronicle is identical to the special box 91 set.. which is kind of a bummer considering how massive the Sorcerian rare tracks discs were, still awesome music but I would have preferred something a bit meatier or a multi collection.

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

PC-98 conversions of PC-88 games normally stretch the image to the 16-bit machine's resolution, which results in noticeable scan-lines, but the hardware boost aids scrolling enough to justify the upgrade (music and SFX all soound a bit different too). EGG recently uploaded the X1 version of Sorcerian for online download, I wonder how it plays. (UPDATE: barely any different from the PC-88 versions, maybe the FM-7 game has some trouble).

Listening to the DOS version's soundtrack is disgusting. It's not enough that different stages have different music...Sierra blatantly simplified parts of compositions to better match what a contemporary sound card would output, rather than keep the music as is.

 

[Parakeetman]

man what a fantastic thread great job OP!

 

[encephalon]

I've been debating starting the original legend of heroes (pc version) or continuing shiroki majo. After starting white witch, however, the psp versions instantly became more attractive. The original battle systems are just ... awful.


In terms of the art, some of the sora artwork is awful and zero brought Estelle and Joshua to life. It really just depends on who their artist is at the time.

 

[wyrdwad]

I've been debating starting the original legend of heroes (pc version) or continuing shiroki majo. After starting white witch, however, the psp versions instantly became more attractive. The original battle systems are just ... awful.

It's actually a pretty cool battle system, but it was still pretty rough around the edges with Shiroki Majo. It got some much-needed improvements in the other two Gagharv titles, though, so I'd say don't write it off too quickly.

-Tom

 

[PixyJunket]

Hopefully I'll win my campaign to score us Xanadu Next for western release.

I would hope after four successful (?) releases, this is more a matter of when than if, but good luck all the same, it's my most wanted from you guys, despite having played through it in Japanese nearly half a dozen times at this point.

 

[Hours Left]

It's incredible how many amazing games spawned from this.

Falcom <3

 

[Teknoman]

Legend of Heroes: Dragon Slayer CD music = best music.

Introduction

Pirate Hideout (yes this is Pirate music)

Final Boss battle


Seriously, 90s Falcom can do no wrong whatsoever when it comes to soundtracks.



I need to play Legacy of the Wizard at some point.

 

[wyrdwad]

I need to play Legacy of the Wizard at some point.

You should! It's pretty ahead of its time, as a lot of these ultra-challenging indie titles today seem like they're trying to be what Legacy of the Wizard was nearly 25 years ago, but coming nowhere close to succeeding. It's one of those games that seems impossible, but not because you're overwhelmed by enemies (most of the time) -- rather, it seems impossible due to the vastness of the space, the insidiousness of what's hidden and where, and the extremely limited resources at your disposal. Getting through the game is the sort of challenge that takes time, skill, careful planning and a genuine love of exploring virtual spaces, and while it can be a bit unfair and frustrating and obtuse at times, it's also genuinely rewarding and engrossing at the same time.

The only modern indie title that's managed to capture that same magic (and exceed it, at that) is La-Mulana, at least in my opinion. Everything else only WISHES it were as cool as Legacy of the Wizard.

-Tom

 

[foobarry81]

You should! It's pretty ahead of its time, as a lot of these ultra-challenging indie titles today seem like they're trying to be what Legacy of the Wizard was nearly 25 years ago, but coming nowhere close to succeeding. It's one of those games that seems impossible, but not because you're overwhelmed by enemies (most of the time) -- rather, it seems impossible due to the vastness of the space, the insidiousness of what's hidden and where, and the extremely limited resources at your disposal. Getting through the game is the sort of challenge that takes time, skill, careful planning and a genuine love of exploring virtual spaces, and while it can be a bit unfair and frustrating and obtuse at times, it's also genuinely rewarding and engrossing at the same time.

The only modern indie title that's managed to capture that same magic (and exceed it, at that) is La-Mulana, at least in my opinion. Everything else only WISHES it were as cool as Legacy of the Wizard.

-Tom

I don't think you could call it "ahead of its time". La-Mulana was directly inspired by Knightmare II: The Maze of Galious, which is a somewhat similar game to DraSle Family/Legacy of the Wizard, and which was released in the same year (1987).

But I agree that those indie titles hardly ever manage to get close to the experience those 25+ year old games are.

 

[wyrdwad]

I don't think you could call it "ahead of its time". La-Mulana was directly inspired by Knightmare II: The Maze of Galious, which is a somewhat similar game to DraSle Family/Legacy of the Wizard, and which was released in the same year (1987).

But I agree that those indie titles hardly ever manage to get close to the experience those 25+ year old games are.

Well, true. I just meant that Legacy of the Wizard would fit right in with half the indie titles being released on Steam these days, and would surpass the majority of them -- but that's sort of an unfair statement to make, considering most of the indie titles in that vein are specifically trying to recapture that moment in time.

-Tom

 

[foobarry81]

Well, true. I just meant that Legacy of the Wizard would fit right in with half the indie titles being released on Steam these days, and would surpass the majority of them -- but that's sort of an unfair statement to make, considering most of the indie titles in that vein are specifically trying to recapture that moment in time.

-Tom

It's probably a bit unfair in that developers nowadays have a totally different mindset than the ones a quarter of a century ago. The latter were constantly struggling with technical limitations, which forced them into becoming creative and working around the constraints. Which often resulted in entire new game genres, like stealth for example.

If you want to recapture that moment you'd artificially have to force yourself within those constraints, which I assume is a very difficult undertaking both mentally and maybe even technically.

 

[wyrdwad]

It's probably a bit unfair in that developers nowadays have a totally different mindset than the ones a quarter of a century ago. The latter were constantly struggling with technical limitations, which forced them into becoming creative and working around the constraints. Which often resulted in entire new game genres, like stealth for example.

If you want to recapture that moment you'd artificially have to force yourself within those constraints, which I assume is a very difficult undertaking both mentally and maybe even technically.

A lot of the best indie titles seem to do exactly that, though -- Mega Mans 9 and 10, 2005 La-Mulana (probably the best example of this, since Naramura & co. limited themselves to MSX hardware specifications, which were PARTICULARLY limited), Shovel Knight (which allowed itself to go beyond its limitations in color palette, screen resolution and number of sprites on the screen at once, but otherwise remained faithful to late-generation 8-bit standards), etc.

This is done in soundtracks a lot as well -- Yuzo Koshiro composed the soundtracks to every (?) Etrian Odyssey game and 7th Dragon in 8-bit, to Famicom standards, before arranging them for modern synth, which wound up giving them a more authentic "old-school" feel than if he'd done it the other way around.

-Tom

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

It was EO1-3, 4 and the 7th Dragons aren't on his customized YM2406 set up (but may have been written for them?)

You should! It's pretty ahead of its time, as a lot of these ultra-challenging indie titles today seem like they're trying to be what Legacy of the Wizard was nearly 25 years ago, but coming nowhere close to succeeding. It's one of those games that seems impossible, but not because you're overwhelmed by enemies (most of the time) -- rather, it seems impossible due to the vastness of the space, the insidiousness of what's hidden and where, and the extremely limited resources at your disposal. Getting through the game is the sort of challenge that takes time, skill, careful planning and a genuine love of exploring virtual spaces, and while it can be a bit unfair and frustrating and obtuse at times, it's also genuinely rewarding and engrossing at the same time.

The only modern indie title that's managed to capture that same magic (and exceed it, at that) is La-Mulana, at least in my opinion. Everything else only WISHES it were as cool as Legacy of the Wizard.

-Tom

Nigoro just didn't care if you lived or died, won or lost. You gotta let that feeling of the players' rights in that reguard disappear to do certain genres like those. That's a tuning question. I wonder how many of them are in that mindset, and if it hinders the resulting product.

 

[wyrdwad]

It was EO1-3, 4 and the 7th Dragons aren't on his customized YM2406 set up (but may have been written for them?)

The original DS 7th Dragon absolutely was -- Koshiro himself said as much, and the soundtrack was released with a second disc containing the original 8-bit versions of every track.

The PSP 7th Dragon 2020 games, however, were not -- Koshiro took a different approach with those, composing every track both in regular and Hatsune Miku versions.

Nigoro just didn't care if you lived or died, won or lost. You gotta let that feeling of the players' rights in that reguard disappear to do certain genres like those. That's a tuning question. I wonder how many of them are in that mindset, and if it hinders the resulting product.

Sure didn't in La-Mulana's case. That game is an absolute gem.

(In the case of games like 1001 Spikes, though? It might have been a negative influence.)

-Tom

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

The original DS 7th Dragon absolutely was -- Koshiro himself said as much, and the soundtrack was released with a second disc containing the original 8-bit versions of every track.

The PSP 7th Dragon 2020 games, however, were not -- Koshiro took a different approach with those, composing every track both in regular and Hatsune Miku versions.



Sure didn't in La-Mulana's case. That game is an absolute gem.

(In the case of games like 1001 Spikes, though? It might have been a negative influence.)

-Tom

Ah, I didn't know if those were the originals or a demake remix he's fond of doing.

 

[foobarry81]

A lot of the best indie titles seem to do exactly that,

Well, I guess you said it right there: there's a reason why those indie titles are considered the better ones.

This is done in soundtracks a lot as well -- Yuzo Koshiro composed the soundtracks to every (?) Etrian Odyssey game and 7th Dragon in 8-bit, to Famicom standards, before arranging them for modern synth, which wound up giving them a more authentic "old-school" feel than if he'd done it the other way around.

Glad you brought this up. The simplicity of those 8-bit compositions at their core is exactly what still makes them so appealing nowadays, either "pure" or in remixed form with modern arrangements. Didn't know this was done for the EO series, but I have to admit I've always enjoyed its music. I guess I know why that is now.

limited themselves to MSX hardware specifications, which were PARTICULARLY limited

I'm not sure whether they used the MSX1 or MSX2 hardware specs. The MSX2 ones were quite ok for an 8-bit machine actually. Very decent video chip compared to e.g. NES.

 

[wyrdwad]

I'm not sure whether they used the MSX1 or MSX2 hardware specs. The MSX2 ones were quite ok for an 8-bit machine actually. Very decent video chip compared to e.g. NES.

Oh, Naramura very specifically went MSX1 with the original 2005 version of La-Mulana.

The remake used graphics that were more reminiscent of the 16- and 32-bit eras and weren't specifically limited by any hardware standards, but since the base game had already been designed around MSX1 limitations, that retro feel still carried through to it completely.

-Tom

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

Because it got lost back in a GOG thread, here's the dumbest paean to Falcom:

My little Gurumin, you can play with your TitS anytime you wish...the sensation will no doubt bring you to Xanadu, or the age of the Dinosaur, where the Sorcerian body shall Brandish arms against the Drasle Family, assuming Lord Monarch of Gagharv and the Vantage Master at Rinne are cool with that (who knows where the fabled Dragon Slayer's gotten off to, maybe Asteka land or, like Popful Mail, the dread Panorama Island).

I wasn't even drunk.

Also, Monarch Monarch, the Windows sequel to Lord Monarch, has some insanely cool maps.

I can see why these games don't receive the same amount of care as with other Dragon Slayer properties: they're not CRPGs, but board game-like, puzzle RTSes with unusual mechanics such as building alliances, merging auto-generating units to create soldiers, expanding territory creep to hose in your enemies, &c. But the game balance is apparently much better than in most Kiya works, and learning the game even untranslated is easy thanks to iconographic menu buttons. Monarch Monarch adds elevators, combat advantage by height, and some other features that make the game both more accessible and hectic later on. Shame about the MIDI soundfonts most Japanese players are using in these videos...

 

[luka]

seems that i'm a little late to the party, but i just got these the other day after wanting to try them out for a long time. they seem closer to ys in structure and presentation than anything else, which is fine by me.

still have no pc engine so go go go emulation

 

[luka]

Cleared the prologue chapter of LoX. My first impression was "oh god why" when I found it was one of those games that scrolls only when you're right at the edge of the screen, complete with a weird shifting HUD. It can be frustrating because there seems to be many more enemies at once, but it'll probably get better once I have some other characters. The music's nice but it's almost all wavetable synth, bleh. After Dawn of Ys, this game isn't really a looker but the side scrolling boss stage at the end was as nice as you'll see on the PCE, and it's got a lot of neat touches like day/night cycle and npc houses that are actually locked and require knocking before you go barging in while everyone's having dinner.

Overall, I like. It's no Ys but it seems like a good time.

 

[Tizoc]

I had to actually buy it through a proxy service (I use noppin.com) from the original Japanese website.

-Tom

I actually thought that was Nippon.com lol.
I did a search for Chronicle but it doesn't seem to show up :/

 

[Tizoc]

EDIT: How many Sorcerian games are there including remakes/re-releases?

I'm not sure I agree with that, if only because of Zero no Kiseki. Look at the main character of Zero no Kiseki, Lloyd Bannings -- he's pretty damned distinct, IMHO, and far less "anime" than the characters in either the Sora trilogy or the Sen duology:

If anything, he looks kind of... outdated. Like a relic from an older '90s anime or something. And I mean that in the best possible way!

His original design, too, looked like something out of a '70s sentai show. I can't tell you how much I wish they'd kept that design in the final game, because that would've been AWESOME:

But even the design they went with is one that I think looks distinct and interesting compared to most other gaming protagonists out there.

I dunno man, they both look anime to me Might be because of the artist. I can see the 70s sentai look though.

 

[jdkluv]

Regarding Yuzo Koshiro and Etrian Odyssey music: he used Cubase for the soundtracks of the first three games, not his PC-88. He did use PC-88 samples, though.

(Oh! And thanks foobarry81 for the pictures! You look overpowered as fuck on that LoH I picture, lol.)

Thanks! You're right the Sorcerian complete collection has the PC-9801 version, I'm not sure of the difference but I bet you are right about the scrolling, this version played really well and the scrolling wasn't overly choppy. The Dragon Slayer Chronicle actually does have the original PC-8801 version of Sorcerian so I will give it a shot sometime to see if I notice any difference.

Say what?! *Checks Project EGG site*

Oh.

[...]Shame about the MIDI soundfonts most Japanese players are using in these videos...

Such a coincidence - I'm currently working on this.

seems that i'm a little late to the party, but i just got these the other day after wanting to try them out for a long time. they seem closer to ys in structure and presentation than anything else, which is fine by me.

still have no pc engine so go go go emulation

Cleared the prologue chapter of LoX. My first impression was "oh god why" when I found it was one of those games that scrolls only when you're right at the edge of the screen, complete with a weird shifting HUD. It can be frustrating because there seems to be many more enemies at once, but it'll probably get better once I have some other characters. The music's nice but it's almost all wavetable synth, bleh. After Dawn of Ys, this game isn't really a looker but the side scrolling boss stage at the end was as nice as you'll see on the PCE, and it's got a lot of neat touches like day/night cycle and npc houses that are actually locked and require knocking before you go barging in while everyone's having dinner.

Overall, I like. It's no Ys but it seems like a good time.

The last side-scrolling level of LoX1 is still the most beautiful thing I have ever seen on the PCE.

And I really like the chip generated soundtrack on LoX1 & 2, to the point I actually don't mind. I've heard a healthy share of PCE chiptunes, and I can safely say this stuff is both well composed and well programmed - the songs compliment the atmosphere of each area and event very well, to the point that they really enrich them. I encourage anyone to try to appreciate this as they play the games.

Overall I feel LoX2 is a better game, but LoX1 has better (and bigger) soundtrack. The J.D.K. Special (i.e. PC-98 style arrangements of LoX1 music, akin to Falcom computer games of the same era) album is simply fantastic.

Really curious to hear (or read!) your thoughts on both games. And please keep at LoX1 - it's worth every iota of frustration you'll experience.

 

[crinale]

They have investor's meeting today. Would they announce something there?

 

[Dragoon En Regalia]

In case you missed it, here's a 1987 interview with Yoshio Kiya recently translated by Shmuplations. Interesting to learn that Kiya wanted Romancia to feel like an "adventure game-ish RPG", kind of like Azteka II which Falcom released around that period. Also:

What I’d really like to make is a game with a system that allows total freedom for the player. For example, despite it being a sword and sorcery world, the hero decides to do nothing and just quietly enjoy his life as a local baker in town. If everyone could take up different roles in some kind of computer networked game, I think it would be really fun.

I'm guessing this explains his motivation for involvement in Sorcerian Online, lol.