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[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Just cause I didn't want to lose it at the end of the last page -

Yo guys, what if there's a missing chapter set in the 80s, where the original Moses Tripoli (Hanzee) creates a decoy (Season 1 Moses Tripoli) to be the front of Fargo while he's off somewhere else setting off the events of Season 5 behind the scenes? Then after Malvo kills the Decoy Tripoli, Old Tripoli returns to Fargo for one last showdown.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The biggest revelation for me is that Kansas is actually a legitimate business corporation without a front. It all sort of does not make sense. Hey; go wipe out this other crime family, now here is a corner office. What? Surely your murder operation men should be different from your business operation men.

Fargo exists in a sort absurdist realist world.

Frankly that's why none of the ufo or Tripoli stuff bother me.

 

[Grinchy]

The biggest revelation for me is that Kansas is actually a legitimate business corporation without a front. It all sort of does not make sense. Hey; go wipe out this other crime family, now here is a corner office. What? Surely your murder operation men should be different from your business operation men.

I was trying to put that one together too. He mentioned the other prior thug who took over the mail room and ended up saving the organization millions of dollars. Maybe they just feel like sometimes it's possible for their thugs to see things differently than the business men? I have no idea, but I'm trying.

 

[Hyun Sai]

Well, until this episode, Fargo the second was a contender to be the best serie of the year. Now all I can see is that Hanzee went to see Aliens who made him Italian.

The tie-up to season one was so forced it was comical. Sometimes you just have to let the mystery be...

 

[excelsiorlef]

Well, until this episode, Fargo the second was a contender to be the best serie of the year. Now all I can see is that Hanzee went to see Aliens who made him Italian.

The tie-up to season one was so forced it was comical. Sometimes you just have to let the mystery be...

How does that ruin anything though? Like so what?

 

[Turin]

How does that ruin anything though? Like so what?

Hanzee was a real pleasant surprise for a lot of people this season. Especially considering that, early on, it didn't seem like he'd be much more than a token native-american side character.

And now we're supposed to accept that he becomes a sedentary white mob boss who is almost nonchalantly killed off by Malvo in S1?

You'd think Hanzee would retain more of his own characteristics and, even at old age, shouldn't be that easy for Lorne to kill.

 

[dresi]

Yo guys, what if there's a missing chapter set in the 80s, where the original Moses Tripoli (Hanzee) creates a decoy (Season 1 Moses Tripoli) to be the front of Fargo while he's off somewhere else setting off the events of Season 5 behind the scenes? Then after Malvo kills the Decoy Tripoli, Old Tripoli returns to Fargo for one last showdown.

Haha, that's exactly what I was thinking. A lot could have happened during those years.

Nevertheless, it doesn't bother me and it hasn't ruined anything for me.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Hanzee was a real pleasant surprise for a lot of people this season. Especially considering that, early on, it didn't seem like he'd be much more than a token native-american side character.

And now we're supposed to accept that he becomes a sedentary white mob boss who is almost nonchalantly killed off by Malvo in S1?

You'd think Hanzee would retain more of his own characteristics and, even at old age, shouldn't be that easy for Lorne to kill.

If anything it's an interesting commentary about assimilation vs being yourself in a world that oppresses you.

I mean he basically set that up when he asked Peggy for a haircut.

 

[maxcriden]

Just cause I didn't want to lose it at the end of the last page -

Yo guys, what if there's a missing chapter set in the 80s, where the original Moses Tripoli (Hanzee) creates a decoy (Season 1 Moses Tripoli) to be the front of Fargo while he's off somewhere else setting off the events of Season 5 behind the scenes? Then after Malvo kills the Decoy Tripoli, Old Tripoli returns to Fargo for one last showdown.

Hawley confirmed Hanzee is the Tripoli from s1, though.

ETA: oh. MGSV. Totally didn't get that till pointed out above. 😳

 

[Drencrom]

Mike's fate is sad and hilarious. He did everything he could to rise within his syndicate only to unceremoniously end up in the upper management part of the organisation as some accounting overseer and getting told that here is where you earn the real money by being a seemingly earnest and normal businessman, not by doing petty grunt work like he's been doing all along for scraps.

It's basically the show saying that the real crocks and criminals hides in corporate establishments.

 

[Turin]

If anything it's an interesting commentary about assimilation vs being yourself in a world that oppresses you.

I mean he basically set that up when he asked Peggy for a haircut.

It worked much better in the case of Mike Milligan.

The actual turn out that Hawley came up with for Hanzee was just far less compelling.

 

[Grinchy]

Yo guys, what if there's a missing chapter set in the 80s, where the original Moses Tripoli (Hanzee) creates a decoy (Season 1 Moses Tripoli) to be the front of Fargo while he's off somewhere else setting off the events of Season 5 behind the scenes? Then after Malvo kills the Decoy Tripoli, Old Tripoli returns to Fargo for one last showdown.

Don't worry, some of us understand this MGS5 reference.

 

[Hyun Sai]

Mike's fate is sad and hilarious. He did everything he could to rise within his syndicate only to unceremoniously end up in the upper management part of the organisation as some accounting overseer and getting told that here is where you earn the real money by being a seemingly earnest and normal businessman, not by doing petty grunt work like he's been doing all along for scraps.

It's basically the show saying that the real crocks and criminals hides in corporate establishments.

I agree on that part. They handled Mike brilliantly. Especially after his speech in the Gerhardt house, and what he told Lou in one episode on why they were doing this.

 

[excelsiorlef]

It worked much better in the case of Mike Milligan.

The actual turn out that Hawley came up with for Hanzee was just far less compelling.

Except that's not at all Milligan's story as he expressed no desire to change. Any assimilation was forced on him.

Different context.


Also Zahn McClarnon who played Hanzee is in fact of both First Nations (on his mother's side) and Irish (on his father's side) descent.

 

[Turin]

Except that's not at all Milligan's story as he expressed no desire to change. Any assimilation was forced on him.

Different context.

It's forced on both of them really. In the case of Mike, he was blindsided by it.

Mike seemed to desire power far more than Hanzee did. With Hanzee, we know that he missed Vietnam and seemed to have a more feral nature about him.

 

[Fury451]

It's forced on both of them really. In the case of Mike, he was blindsided by it.

Mike seemed to desire power far more than Hanzee did. With Hanzee, we know that he missed Vietnam and seemed to have a more feral nature about him.

It was definitely alluded to strongly I thought.

Which is why him becoming an easily dispatched mob boss who we only see eating sloppily makes no sense at all from a character standpoint.

 

[Hyun Sai]

I also think Mike initial casting was in fact destined to be Tripoli. It made perfect sense with the desk job.

 

[Cornballer]

A few more lengthy quotes from the Hawley conference call. More via the link.

- Deadline: ‘Fargo’ EP Noah Hawley Teases Season 3, “Minnesota Selfie” & Returning In 2017

DEADLINE: Right up until the end last night, so much of Season 2 of Fargo was about connecting to Season 1. How much of that are we going to see in Season 3?
HAWLEY: I think that the challenge is always to continue to try to do something similar but different. Not just similar but different from the movie Fargo, but also ourselves, so I love the idea that what we showed with the second year that Fargo can also be a bigger crime epic. That it is also still able to embody the same values and beliefs and feelings that the movie had while telling bigger story.

DEADLINE: So you’re going even bigger for Season 3?
HAWLEY: I feel like our third year will probably be a more intimate story. It won’t have the scale of the second year. For me Fargo always begins with a catalytic moment. In the first year we had two men (Martin Freeman and Billy Bob Thornton) in an emergency room — one of them was a very civilized man and the other was anything but. In the second year, it was a women (Dunst) driving home with a man stuck in her windshield. So it’s who are those men? Who is that woman? Who is that man stuck in the windshield? So it is a similar dynamic but, as I’ve said, a more contemporary story.

DEADLINE: With that attitude and the fact that Fargo is an anthology show, how long can you see it going on, especially now that you have other shows in the pipeline?
HAWLEY: We’re going to make them as long as we feel we can equal or top ourselves. And the minute we can’t we’re not going to make them any more, but it takes time to do something that quantitatively ambitious as what we’re going for. We don’t have unlimited resources so they only way we can fit this much show into 85 days of production is to be very efficient and know exactly what we are doing.

DEADLINE: What I found very original in Season 2 was the way you guys used the fallout from Vietnam and the coming of Ronald Reagan as a dual backdrop for your characters. Is that something you’ll employ in Season 3’s 2010 with the proliferation of digital technology and the consequence on our culture?
HAWLEY: Well, one of the things that is very interesting to me is in this modern moment where everyone photographs their meals and posts them online is a very confessional and very much about this desire to express every thought in a public way, literally the word “selfie” is a term. That’s the opposite, on many levels, of the way that the region as sort of dictated by the movie that Joel and Ethan Coen made is — very Lutheran, very pragmatic, very humble. So the idea of the Minnesota Selfie, in terms of our show, is a very interesting idea to explore.

DEADLINE: How?
HAWLEY: We’re a franchise that is built around the idea that tragedy inherently comes from an inability to communicate. So how do you in the era of the overshare tell a story about people whose instinct is to do the opposite? I don’t know yet how that becomes the crime story in the way that 1979 became very much the times being distilled into a crime story, I haven’t yet got the dynamic of it. But I think that’s interesting and whatever story you tell has to resonate with people in the moment so we’re always looking for ourselves in the stories that we live and watch and how to live in this world.

DEADLINE: How has the world of Fargo evolved for you from Season 1?
HAWLEY: Well there no rules and I’m just making it up as I go along, and like everything you end up trusting your instincts as to whether an homage to the Coens in a particular episode feels like too little or too much or stylistic elements or whether to put a UFO in the show. It all has to make to sense to me, but just like the audience I’m always discovering more. It’s such a fun world and voice to write in, so every time they let me do another one, I get very excited.

 

[AtomskEater]

Just finished watching the series, and I think the ending gives me more mixed feelings than S1, where everything seemed to be more or less wrapped up more neatly. I think I need more time to mull it over.

Mike getting chained to a desk really fucked me up. He might have been better off dying.

Hanzee being this guy:

Is fucking stupid. Like really dumb. Did that facial reconstruction also change his hair color and give him male pattern baldness (Which native americans do not suffer from)??

Oh wait obviously he just shaves his head that way and dyes his hair all the time.

What a completely forced addition that added nothing to the character except to make a completely unnecessary connection with S1. I was so onboard with the rest of the season, and Hanzee as a character, but man that really took the wind out of my sails.

I'm hanging on to the thought that maybe this guy was running it as a proxy of Hanzee's, mostly because I don't like the thought that Hanzee would get soft and gunned down by Malvo with no resistance. Just about 26 years since the events in S2 would be enough time for that to happen but I refuse to believe it.

 

[maxcriden]

I'm hanging on to the thought that maybe this guy was running it as a proxy of Hanzee's, mostly because I don't like the thought that Hanzee would get soft and gunned down by Malvo with no resistance. Just about 26 years since the events in S2 would be enough time for that to happen but I refuse to believe it.

Hawley confirmed it is in fact him.

 

[AtomskEater]

Hawley confirmed it is in fact him.

LALALA I can't hear you!

 

[Fury451]

Hawley confirmed it is in fact him.

He seems like an interesting guy, but really I cannot fathom some of the plot writing and stylistic choices that were made for the last 2 episodes. I'm so bitter about it.

On rewatch, the UFO and storybook plot device that explains characters directly to the audience ruins an otherwise sublime scene and episode. The ship could've been there, but having it linger so blatantly right over the main characters, and directly interfere with events (by distracting Bear) is angering now. The finale character wrap-up for Hanzee just rubs salt in the wound.

Seems like they were throwing "quirky and clever" at the wall to see what stuck. It didn't work for me at all, because the rest of the season was a well-oiled machine.

 

[Herbs]

I hope showrunners don't pay attention to these overwhelmingly negative public responses to finales that payoff on characters and emotional beats instead of just more shooting. I know they get great critical write ups but when they see a Twitter wall of "Finale sucked" "last week was sicker" "nobody cares ted danson go back to cheers and stfu" I hope they don't actually take it to heart.

they don't. in fact, they don't even know those turds exist.

 

[Dice//]

Outstanding finale.

Definitely don't care for how well Hanzee is built up, only to project back that he's the dude who gets shot in Season 1. I'd love a retcon on that or some other explanation.

Still, that finale... Amazing way to work in poignancy, irony, conclusions, new beginnings, and so forth (the title "Palindromes", while hard to work with in a show, oddly seems to work in another respect here too). The show did an amazing job making "centric moments" of all of its cast and the ability to sympathize or really like any one of its key players, good or bad.

Can't wait for Season 3. Goddamn, it's amazing enough the show managed to top an already amazing first season.
I do kind of prefer the atmosphere of the first season (indeed, a lot of the gunning/hunting in the final half of S2 didn't really work for me --- even though I thoroughly enjoyed it, strangely); but I definitely felt like Noah Hawley hit his stride better with the second go.

 

[Cornballer]

- One Perfect Shot on S2: Midwestern Masterpiece

 

[robotzombie]

He seems like an interesting guy, but really I cannot fathom some of the plot writing and stylistic choices that were made for the last 2 episodes. I'm so bitter about it.

On rewatch, the UFO and storybook plot device that explains characters directly to the audience ruins an otherwise sublime scene and episode. The ship could've been there, but having it linger so blatantly right over the main characters, and directly interfere with events (by distracting Bear) is angering now. The finale character wrap-up for Hanzee just rubs salt in the wound.

Seems like they were throwing "quirky and clever" at the wall to see what stuck. It didn't work for me at all, because the rest of the season was a well-oiled machine.

The entire purpose of it is that it directly interfered and was blatant. That's the point. That this obvious crazy thing happened in front of all these characters and they completely ignored it and went on caring much more about less important things

 

[Gozer the Gozerian]

So ignoring all the Tripoli nonsense, what exactly would Hanzee's motivation be for going after KC? I'm having trouble piecing together a logical reason

 

[Blader]

I completely forgot about Tripoli and had no idea that 'reveal' was meant to tie Hanzee into being such a minor S1 character. What an absolutely bizarre story decision.

 

[El Daniel]

What a MESS of a finale.

Up until last week's ridiculous UFO drop I was ready to call this better than season 1, but after the UFO drop the season went downhill fast.

Hanzee being Tripoli is an unbelievable stretch. There was no need for it. We already had Betsy's dream of the season 1 cast which was the best scene in the finale. The other connections to season 1 were way too forced, yet no mention of Melvo at all or showing him as a kid or anything.

Hank's "visual language" was incredibly dumb. They set it up to make it look like it was tied to the UFO paranoia, but then it turns out to be THAT?! Sigh. 😧

Speaking of the UFO, up until episode 9 it could have been explained away as general paranoia which was prevelant in that area in the 70s. Even the first episode where Rye sees it could have been a hallucination as he's on drugs as I recall. When the UFO dropped it was shocking and a fun TV event but it damaged the show imo to suddenly introduce something so outlandish in a previously realistic series. Honestly, now that the UFO was confirmed real I was hoping it would abduct someone, honestly I was expecting Ed or Peggy to get taken. But we got nothing from it in the finale except one throwaway line.

Really disappointed.

I agree. The UFO just broke my immersion. So out of place. Even after the little references. And the Tripoli stuff. Ugh. left a bad taste in my mouth after such a good season.

 

[Dysun]

Not as good as Season 1, and I could have definitely done without the UFO garbage which added nothing.
Still a great watch

edit
Tripoli twist was terrible too, so two strikes

 

[Turin]

So ignoring all the Tripoli nonsense, what exactly would Hanzee's motivation be for going after KC? I'm having trouble piecing together a logical reason

It's like trying to say Anton Chigur becomes Don Corleone. It just doesn't fit.

 

[~Kinggi~]

Im actually gonna have to agree with the folk that are saying the last two episodes hurt it more than helped it. Im normally pretty forgiving and i still loved the season but the strong finish of season 1 was far superior to the finish here. Most of the season though has been amazing. Just wish they finished it off right.

 

[Gozer the Gozerian]

As the guy is giving his speech about empires rising and falling, they should've just employed their split screen thing and cut in a shot of an aged Hanzee getting offed or whatever. Would've kept his ending the same thematically without the forced season 1 connection, but I guess that's exactly what they wanted.

 

[Hatchtag]

Just cause I didn't want to lose it at the end of the last page -

Yo guys, what if there's a missing chapter set in the 80s, where the original Moses Tripoli (Hanzee) creates a decoy (Season 1 Moses Tripoli) to be the front of Fargo while he's off somewhere else setting off the events of Season 5 behind the scenes? Then after Malvo kills the Decoy Tripoli, Old Tripoli returns to Fargo for one last showdown.

Starring Punished "Venom" Tripoli

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

So ignoring all the Tripoli nonsense, what exactly would Hanzee's motivation be for going after KC? I'm having trouble piecing together a logical reason

Kansas City sent them to Hell, but they're going even deeper. Take back everything they've lost.

Starring Punished "Venom" Tripoli

 

[Finalow]

Im actually gonna have to agree with the folk that are saying the last two episodes hurt it more than helped it. Im normally pretty forgiving and i still loved the season but the strong finish of season 1 was far superior to the finish here. Most of the season though has been amazing. Just wish they finished it off right.

I can understand complaints about the UFO and the Tripoli stuff, but come the fuck on, the rest of this finale was great. I don't really see how this was not finished ''right''.

So ignoring all the Tripoli nonsense, what exactly would Hanzee's motivation be for going after KC? I'm having trouble piecing together a logical reason

that I didn't get either. I guess they tried to kill him at some point? Or maybe because they are the ones who started the whole thing? Not that I really care, to be honest.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

I completely forgot about Tripoli and had no idea that 'reveal' was meant to tie Hanzee into being such a minor S1 character. What an absolutely bizarre story decision.

Yeah, I thought that they were somehow trying to tie Hanzee into being Malvo somehow. It would have been a stretch age wise, but it would have been a much better twist. I don't even remember Tripoli and them turning such a good character into someone I don't even remember is just boring.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

I can understand complaints about the UFO and the Tripoli stuff, but come the fuck on, the rest of this finale was great. I don't really see how this was not finished ''right''.


that I didn't get either. I guess they tried to kill him at some point? Or maybe because they are the ones who started the whole thing? Not that I really care, to be honest.

"It’s only when I’m cheating death on the battlefield. The only time I feel truly alive."

 

[TripOpt55]

Caught up on this over the last week or so. I wasn't really hooked early on, but the last 6 or so episodes were really great. A little disappointed with that reveal about Hanzee. He was one of my favorite characters this year. I didn't even remember who his new identity was until I came in here. That whole thing felt rather forced. Oh well not a huge deal. Some really tense scenes this season. Some really hilarious scenes (I forget the exact line, but Ed saying something like "Honey, you need to quit stabbing people" had me dying). A great season overall. I may prefer the first though I think. I only finished the finale just before reading and posting in this thread, so I need to ruminate on that a bit.

 

[Turin]

Anytime GAF hears the name Tripoli................

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Anytime GAF hears the name Tripoli................

Why are we still here? Just to suffer? Every night, I can feel Tripoli... and Hanzee... even Mr Numbers. The finale potential squandered... the the tenuous ties made... won't stop hurting... It's like they're all still here. You feel it, too, don't you? I'm gonna make Hawley give us the finale we deserve.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

I'm catching up, and I'm two episodes behind, but this season is much better than the first. I love the references to other Coen movies, like No Country for Old Men, Barton Fink, The Man Who Wasn't There, The Big Lebowski, and so on. Also, the humor is better this time around thanks in good part to I think Kirsten Dunst's performance and character. It also feels much more of its own creation and doesn't have the strong influences of Breaking Bad like Season 1 did.

I look forward to these last two episodes that I need to catch up on.

 

[Einchy]

Gotta say, I'm not a fan of the Tripoli stuff either. It's the only downside of the whole season but it's such a small thing that is has no effect on my overall enjoyment of the show.

 

[Turin]

Why are we still here? Just to suffer? Every night, I can feel Tripoli... and Hanzee... even Mr Numbers. The finale potential squandered... the the tenuous ties made... won't stop hurting... It's like they're all still here. You feel it, too, don't you? I'm gonna make Hawley give us the finale we deserve.

I love you.

 

[thestopsign]

I can understand complaints about the UFO and the Tripoli stuff, but come the fuck on, the rest of this finale was great. I don't really see how this was not finished ''right''.

I can understand why people are a little thrown off by these things, but they are small details in a fantastic ark!

 

[Niraj]

Really enjoyed the finale, lots of great closure and I don't mind a "quiet" finale. The scenes with Peggy and Lou in the police car (he was totally talking about Ba Van Nguyen right?), Mike in Kansas City, and the Solverson family were all fantastic. Really fantastic season overall, great performances from the whole cast really. I'd have to watch the first season again to see which of the two I preferred since I don't want recency bias to color my opinion, but this was a very, very strong season, and I can't wait for the next one.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

Finished. Why can't a UFO be a UFO? why does it have to be something? Why can't it just be a nice nod to The Man Who Wasn't There.

Wonderful series. I enjoyed this much more than season one.

 

[Alpende]

I watched it yesterday and thought it was an okay ending. Episode 9 was bonkers so it made sense this would deal with the aftermath and was a bit slower. The intro with War Pigs was great, got me real pumped to see how it would play out.

Hanzee being Tripoli is a bit weird and doesn't really work imo. Mike's storyarc was the best and it was cool to see some of the characters from season 1 again.

Solid season.

 

[Skinny Pete]

The ending was bizarre. I'm really supposed to believe Hanzee became Tripoli ? And I didn't even remember Tripoli until reading some reviews of the finale. Seems like a weird way to add another connection to season one that wasn't necessary. Also I'm hoping Milligan somehow shows up in Season 3. He was definitely the best part of an excellent season 2.

 

[StriKeVillain]

Finally caught up on the finale. Really enjoyed it.

Seeing Mike end up where he did had me cracking up. Loved the end with The family drinking coffee and talking. Almost reminded me of No Country. Now the long wait for season 3. :-(