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Fargo - Season 3 - Brothers, Bridge, and Backstabbing in 2010 Minnesota - Wed on FX

Chumley

Banned
Jul 18, 2016
7,147
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0
among the 3 seasons we have, this is probably the best season that encapsulates the "this is a true story" narrative. i am 100% behind the ending because it was only right for the audience to decide whether to believe in the truth (gloria) or the narrative (varga) after what we have been put through thematically.

i know some of you were complaining that it was rather uncharacteristic for nikki to shoot the cop but if you analyse the season based on truth vs narrative, i think it makes sense. following her meeting with ray wise's character, she was chosen to do good and avenge ray's death by taking down the true evil aka varga. however, because she followed what she believed in (emmitt being the evil murderer), nikki was punished.

Sacrificing character consistency and logic for "thematic" purposes just tells me the theme wasn't built on solid footing in the first place. Character has to come first.

Hanks killing Malvo made sense. Nikki becoming a complete idiot all of a sudden didn't. It reeked of the writers needing to fit slot A into slot B.
 

kevin1025

Banned
Jul 17, 2012
12,899
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oh shit.

i didnt even think about that. i think i just assumed it was something nikki had planned cause she was RIGHT there

I thought that at first, too, she maybe had some device hooked up to his car and it has a killswitch. But for it to magically work once two people are dead, and it took her a while to finally show up to the scene (her driving up took around a minute during his phone freakout), is a little messy.
 

Cornballer

Member
Jul 21, 2006
68,409
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- Deadline interview: Mary Elizabeth Winstead On The Nine Lives Of Nikki Swango In ‘Fargo’
How did Fargo come your way? Did you have to read for the role? Your attachment seemed to happen fast in the wake of CBS’ BrainDead.

I sat down with Noah (Hawley) about the first season. That’s when I first met him when they were looking for someone. I don’t think it would have been the right fit at the time. We hit it off and both wanted to work with each other. They called me about a second season cameo, but that didn’t work out. I wanted to be on the show after seeing the first season. I was like ‘Wow, this could be cool.’ At first, I didn’t know it was going to be so great and I was in awe of what he did, and how great the performances were. By the time he called about season 3, I was like ‘Oh, yes, put me in, however many lines.’ I was fully on board before I knew the role which turned out to be unexpected and a pleasant surprise. It wasn’t the type of character I was expecting to play.

Which role were you in talks to play for season one?

Molly Solverson, who Allison Tolman wound up playing. It all worked out. Allison was so perfect for the part. I never expected to play Nikki Swango. It’s suited for me after all. I thought I’d be playing a part similar to Carrie Coon’s role [police officer Gloria Burgle], but Nikki came out of left field.
That's kind of crazy that she was in the running for Molly Solverson.
 

Cornballer

Member
Jul 21, 2006
68,409
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- Onion A|V Club: It doesn’t matter whether or not that Fargo door opens (including spoilers for The Leftovers)
Fargo’s third season is a curious exercise in postmodern storytelling, which did some things that worked (the emergence of Mary Elizabeth Winstead’s Nikki Swango as an avenging hero, Coon’s essaying of “background girl” Gloria, that episode where Gloria goes to Hollywood to investigate her stepdad’s past as a sci-fi writer, and an animated robot says, “I can help!” a lot) and some things that did not (almost everything having to do with Varga with the exception of his Mobile Command Unit Action Playset—Yuri and Meemo figures sold separately). Because we have witnessed it, “It’s happening becomes as the rocks and the rivers,” as Varga says in the finale. But the questions left hanging in that final scene are shallow rivers, indeed.
- IndieWire: ‘Fargo’ Season 3 Squandered TV’s Greatest Cast By Trying to Be Every Show At Once
A season-long problem of overexplanation left little room for its all-star ensemble to play to the show's former strengths.
- Vox: Fargo is TV’s most blistering critique of the past 40 years of global economics. For real.
The FX series’ frustrating but rewarding third season zeroes in on a world gone horribly wrong.
 

Saty

Member
Sep 4, 2009
7,403
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Sacrificing character consistency and logic for "thematic" purposes just tells me the theme wasn't built on solid footing in the first place. Character has to come first.

That's what Fargo has been all about since day and season 1. I still maintain S1&S2 had greater 'sacrifices'. Whatever themes they are conveying isn't a material for 10 episodes and certainly aren't worth the 'sacrifices' to get there.
 

Speevy

Banned
Jun 26, 2004
62,858
1
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"This is a true story." comes from the stories the residents tell Marge when she questions them.

No one is exactly sure what any of this horror means. The brutality is in stark contrast to the innocence of the town. The hookers are telling about where the men are going without a clue to this information's significance to the case, for example.

The movie didn't mean to suggest that there are fantasy worlds where things happen that couldn't, but that people accept the realities that they are capable, or willing to accept. Any other realities are often subject to manipulation and end badly for those involved.

Jerry Lundegaard doesn't accept his lot in life, so he breaks the law to create what he feels is the lot he deserves. As a result many innocent people die.

Marge Gunderson lives an honest life and makes the most of a bad situation. She is very lucky at the end of the story that she isn't killed.

Though it's not a Coen-penned story, the same thing happens to Tommy Lee Jones' character in No Country for Old Men. He was lucky to escape the film with his life and laments a world he doesn't understand.

These are intriguingly fantastic yet somehow plausible events because the characters make you believe them.

If you want to tell a story that's hard to believe, you have to ground the rest of the world in things that could happen, then plausibly set up something that is so crazy that it seems like you're making it up. You don't just have crazy shit happen.

Like Carl going into the woodchipper. That's fucking hilarious. Whether it happened, it could have.
 
Feb 11, 2007
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I appreciate season 3 on a meta sort of level with its themes of truth versus fiction, but I don't currently like it a ton on a narrative level.

However, I am interested in re-watching it down the road to see how I feel about it now that I know not to expect it to be similar to season 1 & 2.
 

ezekial45

Banned
Aug 4, 2006
24,273
1
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34
San Francisco, California

Yeah, I felt the same after the ending. That ending speech from Varga was chillingly poignant, especially considering the current state of things in the U.S.

I had a lot of misgivings about this season, I didn't quite buy Nikki Swango going full John Wick with Mr Wrench in such a quick relatively quite manner (even with the stellar Bowling Alley scene), but I found that ending scene with Gloria and Varga made the season for me.

Also, it seemed to me like a wonderful callback to the movie Lord of War with Nicholas Cage (his last great movie).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFZ4Rvxhx5w
 
Aug 3, 2013
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LA
Funny coincidence for me that I started studying Beethoven's Apassionata shortly before this season started. Do we know if its presence has any deeper significance to the story and themes? Varga talked about how Stalin loved it, but couldn't listen to it because it made him too sympathetic to others. Might that have some relation to Varga's last speech about how humans have no value other than that they can make money? I'd be interested in hearing other interpretations.
 

JS3DX

Member
Dec 30, 2016
67
0
0
As I said before, I don't like this season. At least it's (finally!) over.

Maybe this time it wasn't for me, because I didn't feel it one bit: I didn't like (or even understand) what was all about. Who's Varga? What does he want? He's just in this story for money laundrering and ripping-off small companies? Even the IRS guy openly told that what Varga did isn't that much of a felony... THEN WHAT WAS ALL THIS EVEN ABOUT?? Why having the henchman? Why being so (falsely) philosophical? Fine, he has a network of scummy guys like him, but they're not that evil to begin with. Lorne Malvo and The Gerhardts were leagues ahead of this, and were a lot more deep than this.

Both of Ewan McGregor's characters were shallow, and at the end of the day, they were just victims of Varga's scheme The police storyline was unnecessary. And... was there anything else? Because I don't remember anything else relevant to this season.

Now, was there anything good in this? Of course there was! Nikki Swango and Mr. Wrench were the ony two characters who did something in this, were emotionally involved, had clear goals, and went out there to outsmart the "bad guy" of the season. Their storyline was a late inclusion to the game, but they made it up by being the greatest characters in S3. i would watch a whole season about these two together, but the season finale even managed to screw that...

If anyone want a real Fargo story, I'd recommend you Legion (FX) or Utopia (Channel 4, UK).

I just really want to understand why his car started working again.

If it was ANY other season, I would say it was "Fargo's weirdness bubble" that mandated when the car should broke down for plot reasons and when it could work again... But this season wasn't "Fargo" in any way.

among the 3 seasons we have, this is probably the best season that encapsulates the "this is a true story" narrative. i am 100% behind the ending because it was only right for the audience to decide whether to believe in the truth (gloria) or the narrative (varga) after what we have been put through thematically.

I like your idea, and I reeeeaaally would have wanted to see that kind of storyline unfold (because it didn't) through the season: What it's REALLY going? Are we witness of a "TRUE story" or it's just "--- story"? Putting Varga in the spot of being an incarnation of The Fargo Bubble (Narrative) and the police being the skeptical ground-to-earth incarnation of "Truth" would have been a good dynamic.
 

Fury451

Banned
May 1, 2012
11,857
4
0
Cleveland, OH
Sacrificing character consistency and logic for "thematic" purposes just tells me the theme wasn't built on solid footing in the first place. Character has to come first.

Hanks killing Malvo made sense. Nikki becoming a complete idiot all of a sudden didn't. It reeked of the writers needing to fit slot A into slot B.

I'm not gonna fight you on this because as I've always maintained, I love this show (and this season especially) despite the rather frequent contrived and dumb shit that happens.

But for what it's worth, Nikki was lucky, and her luck ran out, least how I see it. Dropping the AC and her counting made it seem like she was timing it out, but there was nothing shown that the counting worked and really it was all just luck. She really wasn't a master criminal.

I go back to her and Ray being Bridge players, which tends to have a short term luck long term skill approach. Ray had some absurdly bad luck, and Nikki got it too in the end. She played a smart game, but messed up anc lost it all, much like Bridge. Even getting
shot square in the head
was lucky, in a way. She's smart, very smart even, but that's also a weakness-she's a bit too clever for her own good.

She's also the cat in the Peter and the Wolf framjng, and her 9 lives were up.

Or it could just be bad writing. I really can't tell but I loved the season
 

loganclaws

Plane Escape Torment
May 7, 2008
2,349
0
0
Can someone explain their interpretation of the bowling alley scene and by extension explain what happened to the Russian goon who lost his ear?

Worst season by a mile.
 

Alpende

Member
Feb 12, 2013
8,040
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0
Netherlands
Can someone explain their interpretation of the bowling alley scene and by extension explain what happened to the Russian goon who lost his ear?

Worst season by a mile.

What I've read on the internet some people thought it was some sort of purgatory sort of situation where Swango and Mr. Wrench were allowed to go and live and where the Russian guy was not and died(?). The older guy said he had a message from Helga who the Russian killed in his younger days and framed the guy in the first episode for the murder.
 

Creamium

shut uuuuuuuuuuuuuuup
Mar 10, 2005
19,205
0
1,640
Even though this was the weakest season of the show by quite a margin, I feel it still redeemed itself quite a bit near the end. The second half was pretty good and 'Who Rules the Land of Denial?' (forest escape) was one of my favorite Fargo eps. Winstead was the highlight of the season.
 

JS3DX

Member
Dec 30, 2016
67
0
0
So my memory is vague but what relevance was the opening scene in Germany?

It... depends on the interpretation. Here's the scene: https://youtu.be/a-WTmhUQlN0

You could say it's about the season theme about "story vs. reality" issue. The facts are: Some woman named Helga died, and this guy Gurka (the man taken to the facility) has a wife called Helga. Those are the only two facts the General need to imprison that man, given he's realated to "Helga" and she was strangled. However there's more to the story: According to Gurka, his "Helga" is still alive and doesn't even share the same last name as the "other Helga", so he shouldn't be imprisoned. The General chooses to ignore those facts and call them "a story" Gurka made.

So, who's telling a story? The General, clearly part of the german dictatorship, with the apparently incomplete facts? Or Gurka, who's wife you haven't even seen? What do you choose? True or Story?

... that's my interpretation.
 

Maintenance

Member
Nov 16, 2013
22,952
2
470
God, what a shit season. Hopefully they will stop there before it goes full True Detective season 2. I remember reading that this would be the last one weeks ago, I hope that's true, they went from a fantastic season one to a great season two to an utterly garbage season three.
 

C4Lukins

Junior Member
Feb 27, 2006
14,176
1
0
Austin, TX
I would say it is even with Season 1 and less than Season 2. Some great episodes that could have been films on their own.

It oddly feels like it should have been three episodes longer, unlike most shows where it should have been shorter.
 

Albino_Yeti

Member
Jul 17, 2014
1,108
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0
Just finished the season. Overall, definitely the weakest of the 3, but still a great show. I doubt any season of TV will top season 2 for me. Some thoughts:

Mr. Wrench is a straight up badass.

Still not sure if I'm suppose to hate or pity Emmit, but Mcgregor did a great job with his character.

That cop that MEW took out was dumb af. As soon as she kept walking back to the rear of the car he should have pointed the gun at her instead of Emmit.

FX Now has an extremely inconsistent video player. Shit would sometimes just refuse to play.

If FX doesn't do any more seasons, I think this would be a GREAT show for Netflix to pick up. I can easily see it becoming as popular as Stranger Things or 13 Reasons Why if Netflix gives it the proper treatment it deserves.

Overall, while I definitely enjoyed the first two seasons more, this is still my favorite show on TV.
 

UrbanDandy

Member
Jan 14, 2014
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Varga is a vet at this game. I have no doubt in my mind he got away.

That whole last scene between him and Gloria is almost like Sherlock Holmes vs James Moriarty.

I think he would get away because Varga can manipulate people of higher authority. I liked how the only character he couldn't best was Swango.

What impresses me most about V.M. Varga was while he was at the losing end of the negotiations, he was successful in getting Emmit out of jail.

I don't know of any other character that n plan that much while going through so much.
 
That whole last scene between him and Gloria is almost like Sherlock Holmes vs James Moriarty.

I think he would get away because Varga can manipulate people of higher authority. I liked how the only character he couldn't best was Swango.

What impresses me most about V.M. Varga was while he was at the losing end of the negotiations, he was successful in getting Emmit out of jail.

I don't know of any other character that n plan that much while going through so much.

Gloria is neither Holmes nor Moriarty. She didn't seem to be anything particularly special at all, actually.
Pretty disappointing season 😫
 

Chumley

Banned
Jul 18, 2016
7,147
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That whole last scene between him and Gloria is almost like Sherlock Holmes vs James Moriarty.

I think he would get away because Varga can manipulate people of higher authority. I liked how the only character he couldn't best was Swango.

What impresses me most about V.M. Varga was while he was at the losing end of the negotiations, he was successful in getting Emmit out of jail.

I don't know of any other character that n plan that much while going through so much.

The only reason that worked is because of the utterly contrived as fuck Sheriff being as dumb as he is. Even the worst sheriff in America wouldn't do what he did in that situation.
 

Struct09

Member
Oct 9, 2006
14,354
0
0
I agree with a lot of posters here that this was easily the weakest season, but still a pretty good TV show. Hope we get another season.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
Oct 22, 2006
23,454
2
0
Man people were disappointed with this? Lulz strike again. Anyway just marathoned the whole thing. Phenomenal. Only way to watch tv, marathoned and commercial free. So many damn good characters. Love how they bought back the deaf guy from Season 1.
 

Golden_Pigeon

Banned
Feb 5, 2016
3,150
1
0
One of the best show of TV history. My favorite was season 2, the weakest maybe the third but it's still awesome.

I'm sad to see that rating are not on par with the quality of the show, i hope they will come back for a fourth season.
 

5taquitos

Member
Apr 8, 2014
6,859
6
0
One of the best show of TV history. My favorite was season 2, the weakest maybe the third but it's still awesome.

I'm sad to see that rating are not on par with the quality of the show, i hope they will come back for a fourth season.
The creator doesn't have plans in the work for a 4th season at the moment, iirc, so it's less up to the network and more up to him.
 

VE3TRO

Formerly Gizmowned
May 15, 2012
8,908
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635
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UK & Spain
Well fuck, just realized that us in UK are quite a bit behind but totally forgot that coming to the thread. Dammit.
 

Kiriku

SWEDISH PERFECTION
Jun 6, 2004
9,586
1
1,615
Just finished the season, found it very enjoyable. It doesn't work all the time, but I appreciate how they at least try to mix things up in this show (like the episode with different characters being represented by different instruments). But it's also confusing and unclear at times, especially this season.
What was the point with the whole LA episode for example, the android story and those sci fi books? And who was Ray Wise supposed to be?

Also, they really managed to make me disgusted by Varga, especially after that teeth picking scene. :/ I really liked the character though, but I was hoping someone would have just told him to shut up for once. lol