F'DUPTON 3: Back in the Tub with 5.0/5.5/6/7/several Inches of RAM-Flavoured Water

Status
Not open for further replies.
No it can't, they cant use 100% of the bandwidth 100% of the time especially with background cross chat, download, etc. There will HAVE TO BE A MAX BANDWIDTH CAP or youre going to get fps drop everytime you get a notification. The only question is how much.
I'm not sure if you are really serious now, please stop it. Why ps4 should use all the bandwith, Crist, they know how to develop an hardware after 15 years....
 
No it can't, they cant use 100% of the bandwidth 100% of the time especially with background cross chat, download, etc. There will HAVE TO BE A MAX BANDWIDTH CAP or youre going to get fps drop everytime you get a notification. The only question is how much.
Is this a serious post? Cross game chat, custom soundtrack will take up a few hundred kilobytes to a few megabytes at the worst. Also, background download (iirc) goes directly to HDD.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Yes but will all thought that about the RAM usage as well. Because its also system bandwidth they would technically need to reserve bandwidth for things such as cross chat, background downloads, and Vita remote play which technically you could be able to do all three simultaneously while playing a game.
Yes but the devs already know about this. They will have been given by Sony some idea of the demands of the OS and how much bandwidth that the OS will require and design their game engine to accommodate it.

I dare say some devs might not get it right the first time but for the most part. All that background OS activity shouldn't interrupt any flow in the game.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
6 GB of GDDR5 strictly for games is MASSIVE.

Next gen will have no excuse for massive levels and complex open world environments.
I think the main limitation is how much money the developers are willing to spend to generate the massive amount of assets required for huge detailed worlds.
 
I think the main limitation is how much money the developers are willing to spend to generate the massive amount of assets required for huge detailed worlds.
Supposedly Last of Us used a huge number of outsourced workers to create assets.

What a triumph that was. I have never seen so many unique textures and assets in one game.

Now do everything at four times the resolution and open-world please.
 
It was not good enough last week when Xbox One only have 5 GB available. Microsoft is behind, making box for non-gamers, bloated OS and not forward thinking and box already obsolete by awesome 7GB of PS4 super duper RAM.

Now that PS4 might have just 4.5GB, of course that is plenty for next gen. Sony is just being forward thinking so they can match Xbox One features by allocating more RAM for OS. Though to be clear Sony never copy Xbox and everything they did is better (even though they follow MS on everything from cross game chat, UI, achievements, and on-line games behind pay wall. Of course, the pay for on-line is now OK, because Sony need money for R&D and make things better, Microsoft on the other hand is greedy as fuck and ruin gaming).

I have a lot of problem with Xbox One especially the lack of BC and their unclear message on DRM, but seriously do some of you guys actually read what you write.
LOL These posts never get old. "OMG leave MS alone! Sony copies everything MS does! They deserve all the trolling!" I've watched over the last two days the most intense examples of persecution complex and confirmation bias and frankly it's gotten out of hand. MS has received the lambasting they have gotten because they have made several idiotic moves to put them in this position. However, let's not act like poor MS is the whipping boy and Nintendo/Sony hasn't had their share of criticism. Failures of the Wii U/Vita, Sony kissing their own asses and trying to push the insanity that was the launch PS3 on the world, Nintendo and the sales of the WIi falling off a cliff as well as their troubles with third parties, etc.

The funny thing about all of this? People are getting riled up and acting like idiots over RAM allocation that was never stated, quantified, or substantiated and are trying everything in their might to make this seem as bad as MS and the 180 they just pulled. Guess what? It's not. Now we have people throwing accusations at respected members of the GAF community over some petty console war bullshit. Fucking. Stupid.
 
Read my posts on the last two pages.

I'm not exactly that big of a fan of MS mem solution. But to act like it won't have perks over the PS4 design is just as faulty as acting like that eSram solution is at parity with the PS4's mem design.

It's there to make up a difference. Depending on utilization it could have advantages over a strict UMA mem design. But Sony's UMA design will always be the preferred. Especially when you're talking about a consistent fast speed.

Sorry I couldn't go in depth, but I need to go to the grocery store. You all have fun now!
esram still remain slower to the full bandwith of the gddr 5 but it's quite on par . not sure what you are talking about now.
 
My takeaway from this thread at this point is that PS4 is probably going to be the best selling console ever released, as the entire strawman community has seemingly been saying anything and everything today to justify buying it.
 
On a side note, the insider chatter was that originally the PS4 had 1GB reserved for the OS. Back when it was aiming to have 4GB GDDR5 total for retail too mind.

So with the upgrade to 8GB, and the OS reserve moving to 2GB, we have an additional 3GB ram for games. or in other words, 100% more ram for devs to use with games compared to before the ram upgrade.

Pretty good bump if you ask me.
There's also the fact you can't physically have more than 8GB with the current chip density on a 256biy bus. Thus, maybe the games are limited to 6GB right now also because the devs need to have at least 2GB for the dev tools.
 
Yes but the devs already know about this. They will have been given by Sony some idea of the demands of the OS and how much bandwidth that the OS will require and design their game engine to accommodate it.

I dare say some devs might not get it right the first time but for the most part. All that background OS activity shouldn't interrupt any flow in the game.
I am agreeing I am simply posing the question that we do NOT KNOW how much or what their cap/reserved is. That is all. It could be .01% and it could be 30%. No one speaking knows for sure but SONY would have likely give a cap which explains why devs may be "aiming for 60 fps or 1080P" when they technical have the system bandwidth to do it fairly easily.
 
No, having 3GB for games compared to a console with 5GB for games is insurmountable.
A PS4 with only 3GB for games would run faster than the xbone with 5GB, but would have much smaller levels and lower quality art assets.
Well... that depends on how the game is designed doesn't it? Smaller levels would be a natch, but I take issue with both being necessarily changed. You're still going to be pushing more with less. One or the other might have been deemed necessary to change, but I don't think both would have to be.

And yes this is an oversimplification of the reality from both our points of view. I'm saying the levels would likely need to be sectioned more strictly than they would on One, but you still have the advantage of more coming through faster.

But I take your point. Just don't necessarily agree with the insurmountable portion.
 

cyberheater

PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Yeap. But hopefully game engines continue to improve so that it us easier and quicker to create and expand realistic world's.
That's an absolute requirement.

I'm also hoping to see some really nice procedurally generated levels. With the power of these machines and some very sophisticated algorithms. Something quite detailed and realistic could be achieved that could be absolutely massive.
 
The game looks ugly and runs bad also.
Disagree on both counts. On 360, at least, the game keeps a gameplay (non-cutscene) framerate of 30 the vast majority of the time. A handful of areas have slighter choppier framerates (Armadillo and the woods of West Elizabeth) but on the whole it is pretty damn good.

Personally I think it looks fantastic too but it seems more situation-to-situation based and dependent largely on the lighting as the game is certainly starved in the texture resolution department. I've had some really impressive looking moments with the game recently though.

I stopped worrying about GTA V after playing RDR.
Still can't believe this didn't get a PC version!
 

Darklor01

Might need to stop sniffing glue
My takeaway from this thread at this point is that PS4 is probably going to be the best selling console ever released, as the entire strawman community has seemingly been saying anything and everything today to justify buying it.
My takeaway is that too many people panic too easily. Too many blindly trust "sources". And "sources" do not seem to be on the same page. Best to wait and see.
 
esram still remain slower to the full bandwith of the gddr 5 but it's quite on par . not sure what you are talking about now.

The bandwidth usage of eSRAM would not be affected by system operations. The 90% of the DDR3 bandwidth and it would have no barring on the eSRAM as they are separate memory pools with independent bandwidth. Basically one is taking available bandwidth from the other to perform operations.
 
Thank you Kagari. :eek:

I hope this puts an end to the GAF hive mind. Stop trying to compose a narrative where the RAM available on PS4 is somehow compromising next generation titles. Famousmortimer, Bruce, Verendus, and I have all heard:

"The memory situation on PS4 is ideal and has exceeded expectations in every way."
This cannot be repeated enough. No matter how many times this was said, there is "disappointment" and an insistence that Sony is crafting a machine that isn't focused on gaming. Stop it GAF.


WITH THIS SAID: There are games in development that are using 6 GB of RAM. I will not say any more about this.

I will say: the RAM situation on launch, will not reflect the RAM situation in two years, and not reflect the RAM situation at the end of the console's life cycle.

Another hint I've been trying to drop is that there is potential for an upclock a few years into the console life cycle for both Xbox One and PS4. This can give a late generation graphics boost similar to the one on PSP. (Optimistic parrot hopes for a 2.4 TF 1 GHZ GPU)

Finally,
GAF, I love you, but sometimes you have to understand people can be wrong. I've been wrong, yes, I'm sorry, but I have never personally tried to mislead anyone. Leadbetter has done incredible work on reporting the ins and outs of these machines, and is an amazing source of knowledge. I've chatted with him personally about 4k gaming and where we see the future of graphics. Do not make Leadbetter out to be some console fanboy that is getting paid in Kinnects.

 
esram still remain slower to the full bandwith of the gddr 5 but it's quite on par . not sure what you are talking about now.
I haven't kept up with One since the DRM ordeal.

I just always took it as the norm for the eSram solution to be faster than Sony's main mem.

If it isn't then I can safely say I don't know what I'm talking about in this case either. :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.