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Feels like what happened with DmC and Devil May Cry 5 is totally unprecedented (i.e. a series being rebooted, only to be brought back)

Spaceman292

Member
DmC was a MUCH better game for it's time (been a long time, no idea if it still holds up) than DMC5 is/was for its time. 5 easily has some of the worst Unity Store quality environments to ever appear in a AAA game. An unadulterated dumpster fire propped up almost entirely by its combat system
The whole game is the combat system. That's 95% of it.

As for the evironments. Who cares? It's not a walking sim. Besides, I prefer the hellish look of DMC5 to the constant movie poster blue/orange and overused floating islands of DmC.
 

kiphalfton

Member
Prince of Persia The Forgotten Sands returns to the setting of the Sands of Time trilogy (itself a reboot), instead of the 2008 reboot.

Good point, frogot that game. Have yet to play it, but have heard good things about it. The interesting thing about PoP (2008) and DmC, is they aren't bad games and could have very likely succeeded in their own respective series of games. It's kind of a nice change of pace, because it showed that publishers were willing to take a chance on something new, and not just ditch the original series pre-reboot.
 

mcjmetroid

Member
Sounds like a you problem tbh, starting at the 5th entry rather than playing the easily accessible HD trilogy.
If you dont get why fans love it, well clearly character action games arent for you
Well ok but I liked Bayonetta, Astral Chain, all the gods of war, not to mention other better Capcom games like Viewtiful Joe and hell let's throw God Hand in there.

This just didn't do it for me. I think some of it was that V character and his controls as some have mentioned as a small annoyance but it's a significant part of the early game. The combat also felt really weighty and really the level design wasn't all that either.

I played it on gamepass at the time so I don't feel burnt or anything but I was disappointed anyway.
 

decisions

Member
DMC5 was not very good, even though it was much better than DmC.

The art style is just horrible for DMC, everything looks very washed out and vapid. It's why I find myself going to back to DMC4; if it doesn't feel and look cool to do things in a DMC game, that sort of misses the whole point. DMC4's art style is much less busy, you can actually see Dante animating during a lot more of the crazy combos instead of just a bunch of particle effects everywhere. And he blends in with the environment much less. Nero's arm system is incredibly limiting and stupid, and V is just horrible to play as and totally should not have been added to the game as a playable character. The cutscenes are also very boring in terms of choreography compared to the previous two entries, which is very disappointing. However Reuben Langdon improved a lot as a VA and I hope we get to see/hear more of him as Dante because the character's best moments could be yet to come, if only his own series weren't so afraid of making him the main character.

I'm glad it sold and reviewed well because it very easily could have killed the series for good.
 
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People who gasm over DmC always conveniently forget that the game only became solid after many updates, initially it was shit, 30fps garbage made by a studio that hated the IP and fans of the original 4 games.
 
I can't take seriously anyone that believes DmC is a top tier entry in the franchise.

It's not a bad game, but it goes in its own box. It feels like a fever dream.
 

Elios83

Member
DmC was a good game, certainly not a masterpiece but a really good game.
We all know why it was heavily criticized, because the fact it wasn't made by a Japanese team within Capcom was considered a stigma by the fanbase. So it was the victim of a lot of prejudice. The fact the game was 30fps (on consoles) basically gave the alibi to this people to shit freely on the game.

Too bad that the worst games in the series (2 and 4 with the joke of the mirrored second half) were made by japanese teams and that in DMC5 they basically forgot to design the environments using those ugly organic dungeons everywhere.
 

Moochi

Member
I liked DMC more than 5. I just didn't enjoy the gameplay in 5 for any character, and when I played it on ps4 pro the loading times sucked all the fun put of it.
 

lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
DmC was a MUCH better game for it's time (been a long time, no idea if it still holds up) than DMC5 is/was for its time. 5 easily has some of the worst Unity Store quality environments to ever appear in a AAA game. An unadulterated dumpster fire propped up almost entirely by its combat system, and I say almost because Vee is probably the worst playing game action game character in the past 20 years. DMC5 was a 6.5 head to toe.
I thought DmC was ass because of the color coded battle system, never played it though, Protag looks like a dick.
 

Gojiira

Member
RE7 was a stark change in direction but it remains canon. DmC was never canon within the established DMC series.



I hate myself for saying so because Ninja Theory are pricks, but I have to agree with this. DmC had actual level design and it felt fresh and new. The vastly improved DE never managed to remove itself from the stigma of the original 2013 release and remains a competent, underrated brawler. DMC5 was basically a soulless victory lap repeat of DMC4. A good game, but unworthy of the build-up and legacy.
Since when was level design more important than gameplay? Crap gameplay unfortunately isn't carried by level design
Well ok but I liked Bayonetta, Astral Chain, all the gods of war, not to mention other better Capcom games like Viewtiful Joe and hell let's throw God Hand in there.

This just didn't do it for me. I think some of it was that V character and his controls as some have mentioned as a small annoyance but it's a significant part of the early game. The combat also felt really weighty and really the level design wasn't all that either.

I played it on gamepass at the time so I don't feel burnt or anything but I was disappointed anyway.
Im not sure Id really compare any of those besides Bayo to DMC, which is a great alternative franchise.
I do agree V is the weakest part of 5,and I really wish Capcom would focus just on Dante again,but Dantes excessive depth more than outshines just about every other Action game out there so give and take lol.
God Hand though 👌 Would love a sequel or remake
 
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Amiga

Member
Very often in gaming. Basically every Zelda/FF/DQ game are reboots. Reimaginings are common in Japanese pop culture, it's what they the word "shin" for.
 

Neff

Member
Since when was level design more important than gameplay?

More often than not, level design is gameplay. And I didn't say it was the most important aspect, but it is important, it goes hand-in-hand with a player's abilities and should be conducive to using them in interesting ways. DMC5 could have benefited from stronger level design because it was deathly dull in that regard compared to other games in the series.
 
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MikeM

Member
Fucking loved DmC and make no apologies for it. I wouldn’t mind two different universes of Devil May Cry. And this is from someone who has played all of the others.

Make a sequel Capcom. Day 1.

Come at me GAF.
 

SkylineRKR

Member
I love DMCV special. I'm not entirely down with the aesthetics (lots of caves etc) and V is ho hum, but I greatly enjoyed it regardless. Try LDK mode with Vergil in turbo mode, its sick. I wasn't entirely down with DMC4 at launch either, it was a step back from 3. But 4 Special was also very good.

As for DmC, I skipped the initial release. But the DE was good. I give it that. Still, I would rate it lower than both 4 and 5 and its therefore kind of a useless offshoot to me. Not to mention fans were pissed off, and the game wasn't adopted by the masses either.

What I really want though, is a remake of 1. So all modern mechanics and updated enemies with the aesthetics of the first game. I think 1 is the best, if it weren't for its dated and more limited mechanics.

They should have made DmC into a new IP, instead of trying to bastardize the main franchise, only to back-peddle years later.

DmC was the result of a very dark time in Capcom and Japan in general's AAA gaming industry, where virtually every 3rd party Japanese publisher seemed to collectively shit the bed and start farming out their legendary classic IPs to western studios because they inexplicably seemed to lose faith in their own country's ability to deliver great games.

It was so fucking bizarre. Like the execs at these Japanese publishers, all of a sudden seemed to convince themselves that all the greatest games in the history of gaming, made in Japan, with demonstrably global appeal, suddenly were worthless in the face of Call of Duty selling 10m units; and Japan suddenly needed to change what they'd been doing so successfully for decades prior in order to cater to the "western audience".

Meanwhile, everything else coming out of Japan, like Mangas, Anime, Hentai and JAV were doing fucking gangbusters in the west, and the wider global audiences were also lapping that shit up.

I've always wondered WTF happened back then to make so many heads of such huge global Japanese companies collectively shit the bed.

This is interesting, because I have thought about it a lot too. For some reason Japan felt the need to copy western style of development, they obviously saw the success of Gears of War, Halo and the likes. Remember the cover shooter rip offs like Quantum Theory? Or Front Mission Evolved, done by Double Helix. Such travesties were par for the course. Inafune was a big part of this as well, he outsourced a lot to western devs. And why? I mean, isn't it true that Lost Planet 1 and Dead Rising 1 are by far the best and most forward thinking games in their franchises? DMC4 was better than DmC as well. Really, in hindsight its so stupid. I want to bet, if Capcom develops a new DR in house, and keeps it in line with the original, its an instant success.

Anyway they had issues delivering competent games for the PS360 generation of consoles. I think the media also played a part. There was a time where Japanese games were sort of laughed at. The media didn't really hype them up and they didn't review well either (granted lots of games WERE sub par, like the myriad of RPG's MS had signed exclusivity for). Some did, like Bayonetta and Vanquish, but they didn't sell. Though what did the media say about Vanquish? Only 4 hours to beat and no online. Like who the fuck cares, the game was addicting and had replay value. On top of that publishers lost faith like Sega pulling the plug on Yakuza localizations for years, despite those games being legitimately good (Lost Judgment was my GOTY).

Japan reinvented itself when the PS4 launched. Yakuza 0 came out, was met with rave reviews and sold well. After some budget tier RE games (Rev 2), Capcom found success with REmake and the series was essentially revived (not to mention without any co-op whatsoever). Namco found success with Tekken 7 and Ace Combat 7, lets not forget these games were essentially relegated to Free to Play (after Assault Horizon and TTT2 kind of bombed). I think those games are good because they don't try to copy paste western designs. They're true to the roots; Ace Combat 7 felt like a bonafide PS2 game. Assault Horizon, it was another CoDified piece of shit and like DmC aimed at no one since fans hated it and non-fans didn't care.

Right now, Elden Ring is supposedly outselling Call of Duty.
 
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This is interesting, because I have thought about it a lot too. For some reason Japan felt the need to copy western style of development, they obviously saw the success of Gears of War, Halo and the likes. Remember the cover shooter rip offs like Quantum Theory? Or Front Mission Evolved, done by Double Helix. Such travesties were par for the course. Inafune was a big part of this as well, he outsourced a lot to western devs. And why? I mean, isn't it true that Lost Planet 1 and Dead Rising 1 are by far the best and most forward thinking games in their franchises? DMC4 was better than DmC as well. Really, in hindsight its so stupid. I want to bet, if Capcom develops a new DR in house, and keeps it in line with the original, its an instant success.

Anyway they had issues delivering competent games for the PS360 generation of consoles. I think the media also played a part. There was a time where Japanese games were sort of laughed at. The media didn't really hype them up and they didn't review well either (granted lots of games WERE sub par, like the myriad of RPG's MS had signed exclusivity for). Some did, like Bayonetta and Vanquish, but they didn't sell. Though what did the media say about Vanquish? Only 4 hours to beat and no online. Like who the fuck cares, the game was addicting and had replay value. On top of that publishers lost faith like Sega pulling the plug on Yakuza localizations for years, despite those games being legitimately good (Lost Judgment was my GOTY).

Japan reinvented itself when the PS4 launched. Yakuza 0 came out, was met with rave reviews and sold well. After some budget tier RE games (Rev 2), Capcom found success with REmake and the series was essentially revived (not to mention without any co-op whatsoever). Namco found success with Tekken 7 and Ace Combat 7, lets not forget these games were essentially relegated to Free to Play (after Assault Horizon and TTT2 kind of bombed). I think those games are good because they don't try to copy paste western designs. They're true to the roots; Ace Combat 7 felt like a bonafide PS2 game.

Right now, Elden Ring is supposedly outselling Call of Duty.

You're right about that.

My running theory is that a lot of the problems had to do with the "failure" and negative press of the PS3. The same sentiments that ran wild within the gaming media regarding the problems with Japanese games were also levelled aggressively at Sony for their botched PS3 launch. And during that gen, the press was unashamedly biased toward MS and the XB360; as evidenced by the BS they tried to peddle on the launch of MS's XB1 and the initial shitty policies that even MS back-peddled on.

Playstation consoles had always been the platform that sells Japanese games, in the west and RoTW. So I suspect Japanese pubs saw Sony's failure with the PS3 launch and thought they would have to change up what they did, to appeal to XB gamers, since at the time the game that dominated XB games sales were overwhelmingly western made and constructed to appeal to the western gamer demographic (and even predominantly American gamer at that).

I'd also argue that the western gaming media at that time were just starting to hop on the veiny throbbing phallus of wokeism, with the likes of Feminist frequency, Kotaku and many other writers picking apart popular games (specifically Japanese ones) with contrived and very often disingenuous arguments about how "problematic" certain elements were (despite the specific games in question being extremely niche games by design).
 

Kokoloko85

Member
DMC1 was still the best level layout, atmosphere. DMC3 having the best combat. The rest are ok.

Also DmC main character looks like crap because its designed to look like Ninja Theory guy…. (What an ego) but overall it had some good things.
 

jorgejjvr

Member
DmC was a MUCH better game for it's time (been a long time, no idea if it still holds up) than DMC5 is/was for its time. 5 easily has some of the worst Unity Store quality environments to ever appear in a AAA game. An unadulterated dumpster fire propped up almost entirely by its combat system, and I say almost because Vee is probably the worst playing game action game character in the past 20 years. DMC5 was a 6.5 head to toe.
V was my favorite playable character lol
 
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