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Fez's dev to japanese developers: "your games just suck"

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Agent Unknown

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Why is it that you guys can talk smack about him but he can't talk smack about japanese games?

Someone asked him a direct question and he gave his opinion on it. End of story.

Hey Phil Fish what do you think of Japanese games?
I think japanese games suck.

OH NO YOU BAD MAN NO CLASS LEWZAR

Hey Neogaf what do you think of Phil Fish?
I think Phil Fish sucks.

RIGHT ON BRA HIGH FIVEZ


Yes, someone asked for his opinion and he gave a very crass, inarticulate and incredibly rude reply in a very professional public industry forum, so I think it's pretty stupid to put forth that WE are the ones making blanket statements and acting with "brazen machismo" as you seem to think. He has free speech to talk like an arrogant idiot and likewise we have free speech to point it out. Anyways, there's few things more annoying than discussion police type people who whine when people naturally want to discuss or react to something stupid someone did or said so please just stop with the lecture, OK?
 

DXB-KNIGHT

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Why is it that you guys can talk smack about him but he can't talk smack about japanese games?

Someone asked him a direct question and he gave his opinion on it. End of story.

Hey Phil Fish what do you think of Japanese games?
I think japanese games suck.

OH NO YOU BAD MAN NO CLASS LEWZAR

Hey Neogaf what do you think of Phil Fish?
I think Phil Fish sucks.

RIGHT ON BRA HIGH FIVEZ
If a Japanese developer insulted the Western games development saying that they suck just because they are all grey-brown FPS war games, will you be willing to defend such ignorance?
 

zoukka

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Sad or not, the "free marketing" thing is real. Fez will sell a few more copies even because of this thread.

I'm starting to think Fish is a marketing genius.
 

M-PG71C

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Apr 21, 2011
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I don't care how great your product is, when you are being a bigot, you're being a bigot.

It's okay though, he makes indie games. If it doesn't star a cute little bird or a candy-eating monster, he'll be lucky to sell a thousand copies. Between the massive AAA releases and the established casual brands, he'll have a difficult time regardless. Enjoy the fame.
 

shira

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Apr 6, 2011
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More and more, I am convinced that gaming "journalism" is in dire need of an enema.

I wouldn't be content with just saying "buh-bye" to certain outlets.. I'd want to see something more professional and balanced take their place. I don't want it all focused on eastern gaming, and I don't want the dudebro tunnelvision that we see so often.
searched

john tv
sprsk
markmacd

Have not posted in the thread afaik
 

M-PG71C

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Apr 21, 2011
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I wouldn't be so quick to judge. Times have changed. Although I think he's doing the title a disservice by being exclusively on 360.
I agree with you man. But I really don't want this son of a bitch to get anything by it because of his crass attitude, so I'm being bitter. There are other Western, indie developers who should be acknowledged over him.

When you're in a professional position, you act professional. If I said anything like that, as a RN, about nurses/healthcare in another country, I would be hanged on a noose, for example.

You can have an opinion that can be challenging without acting like a fourteen-year old internet brat. :/
 

Tellaerin

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Why is it that you guys can talk smack about him but he can't talk smack about japanese games?

Someone asked him a direct question and he gave his opinion on it. End of story.

Hey Phil Fish what do you think of Japanese games?
I think japanese games suck.

OH NO YOU BAD MAN NO CLASS LEWZAR

Hey Neogaf what do you think of Phil Fish?
I think Phil Fish sucks.

RIGHT ON BRA HIGH FIVEZ
Honesty is cool. Being a compete dick? Not so much. The way he chose to express his opinion was obnoxious and rude. There's really no justifying it after the fact.

When you're rude and obnoxious to someone for no good reason, you waive the right to complain when other people call you out on it.

If you really can't see any difference between Fish's remarks and people's response to the man himself due to said remarks, I feel sorry for you.
 

mollipen

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Why is it that you guys can talk smack about him but he can't talk smack about japanese games?
Well, let's see.

Calling Phil Fish an egotistical hipster doofus a-hole is calling Phil Fish an egotistical hipster doofus a-hole. Saying "your games just suck" is painting a broad brush across an entire industry filled with hundred of thousands of games and countless people.

Calling out Phil Fish for being an egotistical hipster doofus a-hole is done due to a specific event that happened. Saying "your country's games are fucking terrible nowadays" is making a broad statement over thousands of games, which I'm guessing 99% of which he most likely hasn't even played.

Pretty simple really. One is being directed at one specific person for something stupid he did, while the other is condemning an entire segment of gaming likely without much of any direct knowledge of the validity to the statement being made.
 

Mr. Saturn

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Nov 14, 2008
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Why is it that you guys can talk smack about him but he can't talk smack about japanese games?

Someone asked him a direct question and he gave his opinion on it. End of story.

Hey Phil Fish what do you think of Japanese games?
I think japanese games suck.

OH NO YOU BAD MAN NO CLASS LEWZAR

Hey Neogaf what do you think of Phil Fish?
I think Phil Fish sucks.

RIGHT ON BRA HIGH FIVEZ
It's not that he chose to criticize Japanese games that's the problem, its how he went about doing it in an extremely rude and unprofessional manner.

Imagine if at E3 Miyamoto was asked his thoughts on Western games and he says they all suck.

The guy who asked Phil his thoughts, may not have expected him to say Japanese games are the bees knees, but I seriously doubt he was expecting him to act like such an ass.
 

IrishNinja

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All this attention is just "mission accomplished" for him
true, he's clearly on a closed-feedback loop, between this and the indie film thing. really points to not supporting his effort as the best reinforcement, at least until he owns his actions.

ps shidoshi bringing in the logics, always good to see.
 

usea

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It's okay though, he makes indie games. If it doesn't star a cute little bird or a candy-eating monster, he'll be lucky to sell a thousand copies. Between the massive AAA releases and the established casual brands, he'll have a difficult time regardless. Enjoy the fame.
Uh, lol? Fez will break 100k easily.
 

Night_Trekker

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Who the fuck would cheer that guy on? Internet=Large crowds that day apparently...
Take any person who can deliver lines in front of a crowd, and then have that person deliver those lines with the proper tone and with a general air of confidence, authority, and conviction. No matter what the speaker is talking about--even if it's nonsensical or obviously wrong--a considerable number of the people in the crowd will applaud. Every time.
 

Togglesworlh

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Jun 23, 2011
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Phil Fish.

My hero.

Not reallllly, but what he says is kind of true. Japanese game design is stuck in a rut. There are certainly plenty of gems that come from Japan, but they're more often than not knocked out of the way by other games that are... too Japanese. Even a lot of the "gems" still suffer from antiquated game design.

Also, I honestly don't think he intended to come off as a dick for real. I was actually there and it seemed more like he was trying to state his opinion in a jokey-harsh way, based on his tone of voice. Obviously, it didn't work!* C'est la vie.

*Even if it had worked for the majority of native English speakers, the Japanese guy would've never gotten it, unfortunately. You could tell he was having some trouble just asking the question. Man, he walked away looking so sad and dejected. I felt really bad for him. Like, really, really bad. He totally did not deserve that. I kind of feel sick just thinking about it. That poor guy.
 

Baconsammy

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Aug 9, 2011
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Couldn't care less what he said, how he said it, or what he stands for. Make a good game and I'll play it. Make a bad game and I'll avoid it. If giving a shit about the personality flaws of people providing my entertainment mattered, I probably wouldnt watch many movies, listen to much music, or read many books.
 

Togglesworlh

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Jun 23, 2011
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You know, I hate responding to bait... but there is literally one way to perceive his comment about "HEY THERE'S A 36 PAGE THREAD ABOUT ME ON NEOGAF." Egotistical. It's either, "oh, look at these little children unable to understand the truth of my comments, " or it's "I'm so interesting they're talking about me this much!"
Or, probably more accurately, "Heh, that's funny."

If I had made some inflammatory comment, whether intentional or not, I would absolutely find an apparent internet obsession with said comment amusing.

My issue with him is that he's an ass and he's incredibly uninteresting, and his game looks nice but far from the groundbreaking work that it is inexplicably positioned as. Does he drink with the right people? What makes Fez and Phil Fish so fucking important?
You do, by reacting to things like this?

If nobody reacted, it wouldn't be a thing.

even with Microsoft paying him off for exclusivity
...Microsoft hasn't paid him shit since he signed the initial contract and got that first boost of money. He lost his funding long ago. Dude hasn't made a single penny from anything for at least three years, and has been going further and further into debt.
 

Codeblue

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*Even if it had worked for the majority of native English speakers, the Japanese guy would've never gotten it, unfortunately. You could tell he was having some trouble just asking the question. Man, he walked away looking so sad and dejected. I felt really bad for him. Like, really, really bad. He totally did not deserve that. I kind of feel sick just thinking about it. That poor guy.
That kills me.
 

remnant

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Yes, because criticising a guy for being a tactless asshole on an internet forum is the same thing as being a tactless asshole in public and embarrassing a polite audience member. Even if one thinks his opinion is reasonable (and not a gross generalisation that a person in his position shouldn't be promoting), his behaviour was still way out of line.
Why can't it be. You're still being an ass.

Phil said something wrong. Okay don't buy his game? Trolling his twitter doesn't solve anything, and japan doesn't need anyone to defend their honor.
You know, I hate responding to bait... but there is literally one way to perceive his comment about "HEY THERE'S A 36 PAGE THREAD ABOUT ME ON NEOGAF." Egotistical. It's either, "oh, look at these little children unable to understand the truth of my comments, " or it's "I'm so interesting they're talking about me this much!"
Or "man, these people have no fucking life. Move on" in which case he would be right.
 

IrishNinja

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*Even if it had worked for the majority of native English speakers, the Japanese guy would've never gotten it, unfortunately. You could tell he was having some trouble just asking the question. Man, he walked away looking so sad and dejected. I felt really bad for him. Like, really, really bad. He totally did not deserve that. I kind of feel sick just thinking about it. That poor guy.
aw, see, that sucks. and of course this d-bag plants his flag on it.

Couldn't care less what he said, how he said it, or what he stands for. Make a good game and I'll play it. Make a bad game and I'll avoid it. If giving a shit about the personality flaws of people providing my entertainment mattered, I probably wouldnt watch many movies, listen to much music, or read many books.
as a kanye fan, i get this logic - we choose our battles. there's a big Roman Polanski DF over in OT whenever his name gets dropped that runs the same angle.
if it turns out as magical as you're hoping for, i'm sure i'll net it in some indie bundle or another, but look at the post i quoted above yours - i feel okay not enabling that kinda thing from someone being propped up as a celebrity by the indie scene. it's shitty, man.

Yes, because that's the truth.
...ah, that's my cue for the evening! enjoy your drinks, ladies & gentlemen.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
I hate watching assholes be assholes to japanese people, because their manners are usually so impeccable that they end up just looking visibly shocked.

Oh well, there is plenty of other vapourware I can't play that I can imagine liking instead.
 

Rhazer Fusion

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I never even heard of this game or him. That was a very unprofessional thing to say even if you hate Japanese games. Apparently he has not played to many of them because the worst Japanese games are still better than those overrated.........let me back off on this one before I get started on this again. Any country that EXCELS in all types of games for many years and genres is awesome to me. His Indie game better be amazing for strong comments like that.
 

Finaika

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I never even heard of this game or him. That was a very unprofessional thing to say even if you hate Japanese games. Apparently he has not played to many of them because the worst Japanese games are still better than those overrated.........let me back off on this one before I get started on this again. Any country that EXCELS in all types of games for many years and genres is awesome to me. His Indie game better be amazing for strong comments like that.
He doesn't think Japanese games are all that bad though. He thinks Japanese games are usually aesthetically better than their Western counterparts.
 

Krev

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Why can't it be. You're still being an ass.

Phil said something wrong. Okay don't buy his game? Trolling his twitter doesn't solve anything, and japan doesn't need anyone to defend their honor.
There's nothing wrong with people criticising him here, and doing so doesn't make one an ass. Although trolling his Twitter and dragging this thing on for days I agree is juvenile and tiresome.
 

KittenMaster

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This only makes me want Fez less. It becomes much harder to become interested a game when there's a curtain of bitterness behind it.
 
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Why can't it be. You're still being an ass.
He was at public media event, which I would consider a professional environment. He lacked absolutely no professionalism whatsoever. So basically you're saying that random internet posters on a random forum are held up to the same standards as an actual game developer in a professional environment? I'm not sure how the criticism he is receiving from people makes them an ass. All anyone is doing is pointing out that what he did was wrong.
He doesn't think Japanese games are all that bad though. He thinks Japanese games are usually aesthetically better than their Western counterparts.
He said that Japanese games suck. Not sure how it can be interpreted any other way, whether it was intentional or not.
There's nothing wrong with people criticising him here, and doing so doesn't make one an ass. Although trolling his Twitter and dragging this thing on for days I agree is juvenile and tiresome.
I don't know if I'd call it tiresome. This is an internet forum and people are just looking for things to read. All I do on gaf is refresh the page and look for interesting threads to scroll through. Talking about this gives me something to read, which I can appreciate.
 

Dog Problems

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He was at public media event, which I would consider a professional environment. He lacked absolutely no professionalism whatsoever. So basically you're saying that random internet posters on a random forum are held up to the same standards as an actual game developer in a professional environment? I'm not sure how the criticism he is receiving from people makes them an ass. All anyone is doing is pointing out that what he did was wrong.

He said that Japanese games suck. Not sure how it can be interpreted any other way, whether it was intentional or not.

I don't know if I'd call it tiresome. This is an internet forum and people are just looking for things to read. All I do on gaf is refresh the page and look for interesting threads to scroll through. Talking about this gives me something to read, which I can appreciate.
Someone posted in this thread, that was at the panel where he said they suck, and according to the poster he went on to explain a bit about what he meant.

I wish we had an exact transcript of what was said so the first post could be updated.
 

Togglesworlh

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Jun 23, 2011
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Someone posted in this thread, that was at the panel where he said they suck, and according to the poster he went on to explain a bit about what he meant.

I wish we had an exact transcript of what was said so the first post could be updated.
The original statement really wasn't that constructive at all. I can't recall exactly what was said, but it went something like this: "Japanese games suck. Your game design is stuck in a rut." *a couple seconds of silence while the audience derps* "I'M SO SORRY."

Those last three words are a direct quote, FWIW.

This was followed up by Jonathan Blow actually offering a more constructive criticism - that of Japanese developers' horrible tendency to put tutorials in their games, rather than teach the player through clever level design, as used to be the case. Skyward Sword's ridiculous handholding was cited as a very specific instance of tutorials gone wrong and way too long. And then the panel named a few Japanese games they actually like, among which was, I believe, Dark Souls and Street Fighter IV.
 

Dog Problems

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The original statement really wasn't that constructive at all. I can't recall exactly what was said, but it went something like this: "Japanese games suck. Your game design is stuck in a rut." *a couple seconds of silence while the audience derps* "I'M SO SORRY."

Those last three words are a direct quote, FWIW.

This was followed up by Jonathan Blow actually offering a more constructive criticism - that of Japanese developers' horrible tendency to put tutorials in their games, rather than teach the player through clever level design, as used to be the case. Skyward Sword's ridiculous handholding was cited as a very specific instance of tutorials gone wrong and way too long. And then the panel named a few Japanese games they actually like, among which was, I believe, Dark Souls and Street Fighter IV.
Ah, I see. There was someone else in this topic that said the same thing you're telling but I got the impression he actually said more and explained what he meant. I guess it was Jonathan Blow who actually did that.

Oh well, it doesn't bother me like it originally did but I still think it could have all went down much more professionally on his end.
 

Togglesworlh

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Oh well, it doesn't bother me like it originally did but I still think it could have all went down much more professionally on his end.
Absolutely. I don't approve of what he did (although I do think it was fucking hilarious), but I also don't think it's a huge deal (and I've already explained why). Also, it wouldn't be a huge deal if people didn't make it one.
 

Goldmund

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How much of this is Japanese design actually being "stuck in a rut" and not wildly diverging budgets, markets & tastes ("Akira, fuck yeah!" → "Animu, lol, I'm not playing that!")? Japanese games are tailored to Japanese gamers' tastes, Western games to Western gamers'. If a gamer prefers one to the other, it's rather a matter of predominant pop culture than the other being unable to "catch up". Removing characteristic differences is not catching up, it's leveling.
 

Dog Problems

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Absolutely. I don't approve of what he did (although I do think it was fucking hilarious), but I also don't think it's a huge deal (and I've already explained why). Also, it wouldn't be a huge deal if people didn't make it one.
I just wish that everything that was said after it was known and talked about from the beginning. It really isn't that big of a deal, though I do feel bad for the Japanese person who was told that in that particular way. Our way of saying, "It fucking sucks" isn't a big deal to most but for others in another country it can be taken much more serious.

What is this? It's pretty.

Dear Esther on PC.
 
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