• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

FGC GAF, so what was wrong with TEKKEN 4 ?

Xpliskin

Member
May 22, 2009
4,233
0
1,030
Europe


I only remember playing it locally with friends when youtube and twitch weren't a thing yet.


From what I've read online a while ago, I think it was hated because of the wall mechanic.

Can you guys shed some light.

EDIT:

I forgot, can people posting in this thread rank their favorite tekken games in terms of:
-Balance
-Roster
-Command lists
-Fun gameplay
 

Leafhopper

Banned
May 15, 2014
15,165
1
0
Fuck Evilore
leafhopper.flavors.me
I play a lot of fighting games and I may not be the biggest Tekken fan but going from 3 to 4 felt like a let down. Felt slower and sluggish. I wasn't a fan of the new characters at first either. I like them now though.

It doesn't help that it came out after Tekken Tag Tournament. Which is what made me start liking Tekken and made me play 3 more seriously. Tekken 5 though seemed like it fixed everything wrong with 4 though imo and I liked it more than TTT. 5 is probably my favorite Tekken game.

Basically it was really hard act to follow of T3 and TTT.
 

De-mon

Member
Jun 12, 2007
1,159
0
1,030
www.de-mon.es
For me, the nearly nonexistent air combat killed part of the fun. And is the slowest Tekken (except T1 and 2). But I'd loved some arenas/music and the realistic touch in the clothes. Was refreshing to see classic fighters with a new skin.

T4 is not a bad game, the problem is that was launched after T3/TTT and before T5, my favourites.
 

Ferrio

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
56,365
3
0
Big departure from the previous games, also Jin killed it competitively didn't he?
 
Dec 5, 2014
2,304
1
0
Jin killed the game.

It's a real shame, too, because the art direction and presentation was the highest it ever has been. The incredible changes made with characters and graphics really felt like a giant step forward followed with the huge step back that Tekken 5 was.

I love me some Tekken, but it's interesting to think of where it could be if 4 wasn't botched.
 
Jun 5, 2013
12,775
0
370
Casual as hell fighting fan but I remember being very salty I had to unlock Jin! And Eddy not being a main roster character!

Should be noted I've no idea how to actually play fighting games haha
 

Cheddahz

Banned
Aug 10, 2011
14,096
1
745
Nothing is wrong with it, the changes are actually really great and I wish Namco would had stuck with them
 

Brian_FETO

Banned
Apr 12, 2014
10,930
1
0
I remember that beat 'em up side mode being pretty fun for what it was.

I understand where you're coming from though OP, Tekken 4 was the only game in the series I actually owned (played others via renting, friends houses, or arcade) and was surprised to see people saying it sucked on GAF (granted, my fighting game knowledge back then was solely mashing)
 

Garrett Hawke

Member
Jan 24, 2014
24,331
1
430
Jin killed the game.

It's a real shame, too, because the art direction and presentation was the highest it ever has been. The incredible changes made with characters and graphics really felt like a giant step forward followed with the huge step back that Tekken 5 was.

I love me some Tekken, but it's interesting to think of where it could be if 4 wasn't botched.
Out of interest, why is T5 considered a step back? I've only played Tekken casually but this stuff is interesting :p
 

Gren

Member
Mar 1, 2013
2,438
0
0
Heh, I remember that my arcade actually switched back to Tekken Tag not long after getting 4. That doesn't sound very remarkable in & of itself, but I had never seen it happen IRL before. Usually they get the newest iteration & just run with it, occasionally bringing back popular older versions on a side cab.

I did like the re-designs though. Best Xiaoyu outfit ever.
 

genjiZERO

Member
Jun 16, 2005
12,025
10
1,505
Virginia
Personally, I just thought it wasn't terribly great when compared to how awesome TTT was. Sure there were balance issues, but there were balance issues in T3 too.

Casual as hell fighting fan but I remember being very salty I had to unlock Jin! And Eddy not being a main roster character!

Should be noted I've no idea how to actually play fighting games haha

That's one of the things they did right!
 

Tizoc

Member
Jun 23, 2010
81,144
20
960
34
Oman
I always liked Paul in T4 the most after T3. His other versions didn't interest me as much.
 

Skilletor

Member
Dec 4, 2006
31,747
1
0
Colorado Springs, CO
Out of interest, why is T5 considered a step back? I've only played Tekken casually but this stuff is interesting :p

They had some decent ideas for T4, but after they failed with it, they went back to the TTT/T3 formula and haven't looked back. Whether or not that's a step back is entirely dependent on what you want in your Tekken games.

For me, T4 always felt like Ergheiz with more restrictive movement. It was not a good fighter in the least.
 
Dec 5, 2014
2,304
1
0
Out of interest, why is T5 considered a step back? I've only played Tekken casually but this stuff is interesting :p

It returned to the gameplay formula of T3 rather than refining the new systems they made for T4. Granted, there isn't anything wrong with that, as T3 and T5.1 (and T5DR) are incredibly solid fighters. I just wish they tweaked some things rather than going back on it all.
 

AAK

Member
Sep 30, 2006
19,614
5
1,525
33
Ottawa, ON
Bad balance (Jin vs Jin Top 8's everywhere), broken terrain mechanics (glitches and stage infinites galore), and a completely limp movement system (Just doing jabs with your character had more lateral movement, was safer, and faster to move forward than actually dashing forward or walking)....

BUT Tekken 6.0 and TTT2 Vanilla both had broken characters as well before they got fixed with Bloodline Rebellion and Unlimited that were ported to consoles.

Tekken 4 was never given a balance patch for people to experience. Unfortunately ever since then Namco haven't tried anything new like it did with Tekken 4 which is a true pity.

But the art direction of Tekken 4... was unparalled. This and Tekken 5 were the last games where the game had an ounce of respect for itself. It's just gone way too far into banana-cray-cray-animeow rabbit whole with every iteration afterward. (NOTE: only talking about art direction and narrative here. When it comes to gameplay Tekken Tag Tournament 2 is the supreme magnum opus of the series)
 

Cheddahz

Banned
Aug 10, 2011
14,096
1
745
Out of interest, why is T5 considered a step back? I've only played Tekken casually but this stuff is interesting :p

After 4, they went back to Tekken 3's formula and for the better or worse, they haven't looked back yet (which really has made the series dull at this point, aside from Tag 2)
 

Deps

Member
Aug 30, 2010
1,063
0
0
Terrible gameplay, Jin, uneven stages

Unfortunately, because T4 failed Namco has been afraid to make drastic gameplay changes and won't even change the default outfits of the characters.
 

Perro

Member
Mar 4, 2012
1,151
0
0
I was teenager when I tried T4 and didn't know shit about FGs.
- TTT had a big roster and the Tag system, the reduced roster for T4 was a let down for me.
- T4 looked more grim(?), I remember Tag being more colouful.
- Button mashing with Christie didn't felt right. (not even my hormones could make me accept that they replaced Eddie with Christie)
- I learned that Paul wasn't the hero of the series. (Everything I knew was a lie! Doesn't help that Namco made him a joke character :/)

Those were my reasons why I didn't like it, as you can see I was a scrub.
Now, I think T4 was a step in the right direction and the bad rep it got made the series be in the state it is now. Stagnant.
 

ZeroTheShadow

Member
May 29, 2014
3,328
0
0
Tekken 4 was never given a balance patch for people to experience. Unfortunately ever since then Namco haven't tried anything new like it did with Tekken 4 which is a true pity.

Tekken 4 recieved 4 balance updates in arcades. It was just at the time you didn't advertise your balance patches with a new title release. Version D is the one that ended up going to console.
 

AAK

Member
Sep 30, 2006
19,614
5
1,525
33
Ottawa, ON
Tekken 4 recieved 4 balance updates in arcades. It was just at the time you didn't advertise your balance patches with a new title release. Version D is the one that ended up going to console.

Was this before or after console release?

EDIT: Quoted the wrong person
 
Oct 11, 2007
32,953
730
1,430
It didn't have a few iterations to polish what it brought to the series. Still irritates me how they regressed backward after that.
 

ZeroTheShadow

Member
May 29, 2014
3,328
0
0
It didn't have a few iterations to polish what it brought to the series. Still irritates me how they regressed backward after that.

Tekken 4 was the regression. They removed features from the game to cater to scrubs & as a result they made a terrible game with busted new mechanics that the team redesigned & made better in the sequel.
 

MikeMyers

Member
Mar 9, 2007
15,443
6
1,335
27
Los Angeles, California
I enjoyed the game itself, but the content on the PS2 version felt like a stepdown from Tekken 3. No guest stars, no Tekken Ball (or even Tag's Bowl), and wasn't too big on the T4 version of Tekken Force. Might have been better if Tekken Force was co-op at least.
 

Xpliskin

Member
May 22, 2009
4,233
0
1,030
Europe
How did the uneven ground affect gameplay ?


Like did a Low become a High all of a sudden ?

EDIT:

Ah there are some great examples in the Nimby's video, thanks
 
Dec 5, 2014
2,304
1
0
Just something to add:



Tekken 2 advertised its re-release:


Also Street Fighter Alpha 2' (or Gold, whatever you wanted to call it.) Tekken also did it after 4 with 5 and 5.1.
Tekken 5 on release was also really badly balanced. Steve everywhere. Then they very heavily promoted 5.1 and it was great.
 

ZeroTheShadow

Member
May 29, 2014
3,328
0
0
Just something to add:



Tekken 2 advertised its re-release:


That's not an advertisement. I meant like marketing an update as a new game. It says the version on the screen of Tekken 4 cabs too, smaller. Same thing with 5.1 & the multiple versions of Soul Calibur 2 that were out in arcades.
 
Feb 25, 2012
616
165
680
As a complete shit player at fighting games, I loved Tekken 4 and I found it more visually impressive ( relatively to the time frames,obviously) than its successor, tekken 5 (that, anyway, has been the last Tekken to seriously impress me, visually)
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Jul 26, 2014
26,221
2
0
America
You don't have to be a FGC guy to know T4 gameplay wise was a step back. It did some nice things like non infinite stages and a pretty unique Jin skillset, but it took steps back making those stages completely unelevated, as well as easy to take advantage of when backed into a corner.

Even worse still they took out the second block and replaced it with some lame "switch places" grapple thing that doesn't even make sense.

(i was mostly pissed because they took out a lot of xiaoyu's moves from T3, even though T5 added them back in with the moves they added from T4 which was nice)

In terms of non gameplay stuff, i thought it was pretty cool, since it actually tried to make the storyline of the games actually matter somewhat, and the more serious feel was great, along with the major revision to both costume and design wise to many of the characters. It really felt like a step up thematically.

T5 and T6 and T7 by comparison are all too samey in that department from what i've seen
 

ZeroTheShadow

Member
May 29, 2014
3,328
0
0
Can we cut it with the "mechanics from Tekken 4 were abandoned & the series regressed to Tekken 3" BS? Side-Walk & Walls the two major gameplay additions to 4 were improved on & added to Tekken 5.

The position change throw system was dumb. No one argues that should come back.

Uneven floors are dumb, that's why they don't exist in fighting games at all anymore.

Having your fighting areas have objects that can get in your way like piller was dumb.

All the good ideas from Tekken 4 gameplay wise survived & are in Tekken right now.
 

Space A Cobra

Member
Mar 28, 2006
3,844
0
1,405
www.youtube.com
Well for starters they nerfed(Putting it lightly) the backdash which put everyone with good jabs at a major advantage and screwed up the entire footsie game. Then Jin time unlocked.
 

notworksafe

Member
Jun 17, 2008
16,510
49
1,085
As mentioned, Jin was pretty broken. However I did find that a good Nina was a reliable counter-pick. Also uneven stages lead to some real messes and infinites.

However there were some bright points of the game. The music was some of the best in the series, Airport theme and character select being some of my personal favorites.

Also Position Change is only in this game and that's a bummer because it's a cool mechanic. It replaced the 2+4 throw for everyone but it was a great way to get in and out of the wall and added some cool combo potential.

Third, Kuma was hella good in T4. Pair some of his attacks with the parking garage stage and he was unstoppable!