• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

FidelityFX Super Resolution got me re-excited for current consoles. Nearly a half gen upgrade?

LordOfChaos

Member
Mar 31, 2014
11,834
7,229
985
On getting my PS5 and playing some Control, I tried out the two visual modes, ray tracing and performance. It didn't take long to opt for the added responsiveness over more accurate reflective surfaces. It technically targets 1440p and uses a temporal upscale already, but the game isn't the point specifically.

I figured this would be what this generations midway bump would be about, being able to use current performance modes and quality modes all together. But with a DLSS contender coming, now I wonder if we'll even need that.



We don't know what the performance of SR is going to look like, but anything close to this would be great. There's a red gaming tech video that speculates on even higher if you choose to believe that or not. But wherever it ends up, the fact is that current games that target 4K are spending over twice as much GPU power for marginally better results from a couch when we're still limited on GPU power and can spend it elsewhere.

4K is 3840×2160 (a total of 8.3 million pixels), while 1440p is 2560×1440 (3.6 million pixels), I think people sometimes forget what a difference this is, while with a DLSS 2.0 tier upscaling or even close, it would be nearly imperceptible from a couch to use a 1440p render and upscale.

What would saving that much GPU power afford us? I would think we could start to merge current performance and ray tracing modes without the need for new hardware, should developers patch for Super Resolution. Ok, so a half gen upgrade is usually over double the power, but this ain't bad.

Thots?
 

Soodanim

Member
Feb 24, 2012
7,417
2,792
1,005
United Kingdom
4K is 3840×2160 (a total of 8.3 million pixels), while 1440p is 2560×1440 (3.6 million pixels), I think people sometimes forget what a difference this is, while with a DLSS 2.0 tier upscaling or even close, it would be nearly imperceptible from a couch to use a 1440p render and upscale.
This paragraph gives me deja vu
 
  • Empathy
Reactions: LordOfChaos

Soodanim

Member
Feb 24, 2012
7,417
2,792
1,005
United Kingdom
Sometimes I'm lazy and know I've already written something before, lol

Thiiis, particularly when they add AMD Super Resolution for upscaling. Why spend twice as much GPU power for marginally better results when we're still limited on GPU power and can spend it elsewhere.

4K is 3840×2160 (a total of over 8 million pixels), while 1440p is 2560×1440 (3.6 million pixels), I think people sometimes forget what a difference this is, while with a DLSS 2.0 tier upscaling or even close, it would be nearly imperceptible from a couch to use a 1440p render and upscale.

Really want the PS5 to add a native 1440p output mode too
I knew it! You really liked that paragraph, didn’t you 😂

It is a good one though, and it lays out the massive difference in cost in a way that is easy to miss without it. I’ve yet to see DLSS etc on a display for myself, but comparisons seem to be very confident in its advantages as a technology and consoles getting it can only be a good thing. Especially as techniques improve over time and it becomes even closer to native 4K.
 

Hunnybun

Member
Jun 3, 2020
1,002
1,164
355
I doubt it will have much impact.

There are already various reconstruction methods available which produce a reasonably convincing 4k image from a roughly 50% base.

And nobody thinks it's gonna be as good as DLSS, so it's unlikely to be SIGNIFICANTLY better than something like checkerboarding.

So I'm not sure there's really a need for another offering.

At best it'll just mean slightly more convincing reconstructions (ie no added performance) and an off the shelf solution for studios still just using 1440p.

I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it's gonna be game changing.
 
Last edited:

vpance

Member
Jun 20, 2005
8,888
3,185
1,650
If it can reconstruct from 1080p with good results then it’s something to be excited about.

Even if it disappoints it’s not like we’re depending on it to boost graphics fidelity this gen. Look at the UE5 demo which ran at 1440p TR. Still lots of tricks in the bag.
 

TonyK

Member
Aug 13, 2020
816
1,340
400
"Marginally better"... "nearly imperceptible"... Another thread about 2K vs 4K where people: A/ have a small TV; or B/is seated too far away; or C/it has eyesight problems.
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Mar 31, 2014
11,834
7,229
985
Another thread about 2K vs 4K

"With a next gen reconstruction technique", so no

We don't know how it'll compare to DLSS, but DLSS at its best can be pretty damn good vs native. It's also NOT that you can't notice the difference, but that spending twice as much GPU power on 8.3 million pixels vs 3.6+upscaling isn't worth it and is better applied in more noticeable places, for now.
 
Last edited:
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Mister Wolf

smithg5

Member
Nov 4, 2014
287
384
455
Every time I read about people getting hyped for this AMD response to DLSS I start to sympathetically get nervous and sweat for AMD. I feel like I haven’t even started that paper that’s past due and I keep persuading my professor it will be ready in just a few days.

Who knows, they might pull it off, but this is taking way too long given DLSS was clearly a big deal over a year ago.
 
Last edited:

Dream-Knife

Member
Feb 22, 2021
636
777
375
It's March already, it needs to come out. Delay the console launch and release it for the 6000 GPUs already.
 

Dudacus

Member
Jun 8, 2020
187
575
385
Houston, TX
It's March already, it needs to come out. Delay the console launch and release it for the 6000 GPUs already.
The problem is that it doesn't matter if they speed up the release or not. AMD gpus still sell out instantly as soon as units appear online. Their sales are not impacted by this holdup whatsoever.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Guilhermegrg

johntown

Banned
Dec 27, 2010
3,761
2,369
945
East Coast
How do we know the PS5 will even get or support this feature? I still think this has some time before it is any good. DLSS had issues when it first started. Maybe this will be different but I think it is way to early to tell.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Guilhermegrg

Dream-Knife

Member
Feb 22, 2021
636
777
375
The problem is that it doesn't matter if they speed up the release or not. AMD gpus still sell out instantly as soon as units appear online. Their sales are not impacted by this holdup whatsoever.
I'm just saying it's dumb to delay it for GPUs.
 

vaibhavpisal

Member
Jun 10, 2019
1,348
1,742
455
I thought DLSS was good cause it uses dedicated silicon.

Maybe ms/sony will add upscaling silicon down the line and call it mid gen refresh?
 

SlimySnake

Member
Feb 5, 2013
10,559
28,821
1,230
On getting my PS5 and playing some Control, I tried out the two visual modes, ray tracing and performance. It didn't take long to opt for the added responsiveness over more accurate reflective surfaces. It technically targets 1440p and uses a temporal upscale already, but the game isn't the point specifically.

I figured this would be what this generations midway bump would be about, being able to use current performance modes and quality modes all together. But with a DLSS contender coming, now I wonder if we'll even need that.



We don't know what the performance of SR is going to look like, but anything close to this would be great. There's a red gaming tech video that speculates on even higher if you choose to believe that or not. But wherever it ends up, the fact is that current games that target 4K are spending over twice as much GPU power for marginally better results from a couch when we're still limited on GPU power and can spend it elsewhere.

4K is 3840×2160 (a total of 8.3 million pixels), while 1440p is 2560×1440 (3.6 million pixels), I think people sometimes forget what a difference this is, while with a DLSS 2.0 tier upscaling or even close, it would be nearly imperceptible from a couch to use a 1440p render and upscale.

What would saving that much GPU power afford us? I would think we could start to merge current performance and ray tracing modes without the need for new hardware, should developers patch for Super Resolution. Ok, so a half gen upgrade is usually over double the power, but this ain't bad.

Thots?
AMD is doing this without hardware. Nvidia has a lot of dedicated tensor cores dedicated to boosting DLSS performance.

It will be a half assed solution just like their RT solution which is pretty damn poor. The 10 tflops PS5 and 12 tflops XSX performing like a 6 tflops RTX 2060 in Watch Dogs. Their flagship 6800xt 20 tflops card performs terribly on ray tracing games.

In short, dont expect much from their DLSS solution. It will give you maybe a 10-20% boost.
 

assurdum

Member
Aug 14, 2020
2,824
4,843
485
AMD is doing this without hardware. Nvidia has a lot of dedicated tensor cores dedicated to boosting DLSS performance.

It will be a half assed solution just like their RT solution which is pretty damn poor. The 10 tflops PS5 and 12 tflops XSX performing like a 6 tflops RTX 2060 in Watch Dogs. Their flagship 6800xt 20 tflops card performs terribly on ray tracing games.

In short, dont expect much from their DLSS solution. It will give you maybe a 10-20% boost.
Need to say software solutions have also their own advantage over the hardware ones. Take VRS as example. Let's see what will happen, not need to be so pessimistic.
 

assurdum

Member
Aug 14, 2020
2,824
4,843
485
How do we know the PS5 will even get or support this feature? I still think this has some time before it is any good. DLSS had issues when it first started. Maybe this will be different but I think it is way to early to tell.
Because AMD said that.
 
Last edited:
  • Fire
Reactions: Kumomeme

llien

Member
Feb 1, 2017
10,271
8,235
945
AMD is doing this without hardware. Nvidia has a lot of dedicated tensor cores dedicated to boosting DLSS performance.
Bovine feces.
There is no "tensor core dedicated to DLSS".
Nor is there anything magical about "tensor cores" themselves, essentially, it is "a bunch of FP ops".

And the operation used to improve what otherwise is 90%+ TAA is called "neural network inference". GPUs are pretty darn good at it out of the box.
 

hybrid_birth

Member
Jun 6, 2014
1,455
2,693
885
Texas, United States
Bovine feces.
There is no "tensor core dedicated to DLSS".
Nor is there anything magical about "tensor cores" themselves, essentially, it is "a bunch of FP ops".

And the operation used to improve what otherwise is 90%+ TAA is called "neural network inference". GPUs are pretty darn good at it out of the box.
Did someone say Bovine Feces?

hungry emma stone GIF
 

LordOfChaos

Member
Mar 31, 2014
11,834
7,229
985
AMD is doing this without hardware. Nvidia has a lot of dedicated tensor cores dedicated to boosting DLSS performance.

It will be a half assed solution just like their RT solution which is pretty damn poor. The 10 tflops PS5 and 12 tflops XSX performing like a 6 tflops RTX 2060 in Watch Dogs. Their flagship 6800xt 20 tflops card performs terribly on ray tracing games.

In short, dont expect much from their DLSS solution. It will give you maybe a 10-20% boost.

Not having looked into it, that sounds like a Watch Dogs problem? There are other games that they perform better than their expected comparison, and many at about what you'd expect, depends on if the developer tailored for Nvidia or AMD hardware more. On ray tracing, yes, they definitely perform a tier down.

Will it not be as good as the tensor core approach, look, I could definitely believe it. But I can also see there being an opportunity for compute to asynchronously boost the perceived render resolution without dedicated cores for it.
 
Last edited:

assurdum

Member
Aug 14, 2020
2,824
4,843
485
Where do you have a link? I didn't see it mentioned in the two articles posted in this thread.
There was an article which said it should work on both console hardware but I'm unable to find it now. Anyway it's a software implementation, there is no reason why shouldn't work on ps5.
 
Last edited:

LordOfChaos

Member
Mar 31, 2014
11,834
7,229
985
Where do you have a link? I didn't see it mentioned in the two articles posted in this thread.
Announced in here


Mentioned some talks with them here about why they took longer and made it cross platform


Or article about it

 
Last edited:
  • Fire
Reactions: Kumomeme

johntown

Banned
Dec 27, 2010
3,761
2,369
945
East Coast
There was an article which said it should work on both console hardware but I'm unable to find it now. Anyway it's a software implementation, there is no reason why shouldn't work on ps5.
There are actually plenty of reasons. PS5 games are made with custom settings and very specific. Not like PC games where you tweak every setting. Just because it is software that does not mean it will just work on the PS5. Games will also most likely need to be patched to take advantage of this.
 

rickybooby87

Member
Nov 2, 2020
243
778
300
I want to hold out hope that AMD will have something that will come within swinging distance to DLSS, but I am not too sure. RTX is cool, but DLSS has been a game changer and probably one of the more fascinating techniques in GPU trickery in recent memory. I'd settle for half of what DLSS could offer on consoles, would be cooler if they would standardize Super Resolution/DLSS into one acronym and make it easier for game developers.
 

johntown

Banned
Dec 27, 2010
3,761
2,369
945
East Coast
Announced in here


Or article about it

Video didn't seem to mention anything about the PS5. Not really sure why I should care what some random site says. I can find random websites to say pretty much whatever I want all over the Internet.

My argument was from someone who stated AMD said so but no one seems to be able to provide this information.

I would hope the PS5 would get the feature but with a custom system like the PS5 it may not be that simple as just a software update.
 

assurdum

Member
Aug 14, 2020
2,824
4,843
485
There are actually plenty of reasons. PS5 games are made with custom settings and very specific. Not like PC games where you tweak every setting. Just because it is software that does not mean it will just work on the PS5. Games will also most likely need to be patched to take advantage of this.
I don't follow you. Of course won't work in the older games without a dedicated coding but doesn't means ps5 can't use it for the new ones.