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Fighting Games Weekly | Dec 29 - Jan 4 | 2015: An Esports Odyssey

enzo_gt

tagged by Blackace
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Week of December 29th to January 4th, 2014.

Fighting Games Weekly is the weekly discussion thread for all things fighting games. News, events, streams, videos, players, drama, everything fighting game related.

Don't know what to watch right now? Check the FGCPros Twitch Group or Jaxel's Stream Viewer. If you want to watch multiple streams at once, you can use Jaxel's customizable multiviewer as well.

New to FGC-GAF is the FGC-GAF Index which lists the fighting games GAFers plays as a neat reference with some rough statistics to boot. To add yourself to the index, quote this post and use the survey link below. Please remember to save/bookmark the "Edit your response" link so you can edit your responses if/when you buy a game already on the list or a new game that releases in the future.


Last week's thread. An archive of previous FGW threads is available here.​


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Jersey Shoreyuken 14: The Rebirth [ Saturday ] [ 5PM EDT | 2PM PDT ]
Wonderbattles Season 2 [ Sunday ] [ 2PM EDT | 11AM PDT ]


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Every week, FGW will spotlight one GAFer to get a better picture of their history with fighting games, their preferences, and much more. For this week's FGW Player Spotlight, we will be taking a closer look at this guy named That Dude John!

What fighting games do you currently play, what is your all time favourite and why?
At the moment, Guilty Gear Xrd pretty much takes center stage with sprinkles of Killer Instinct, Yatagarasu, and UltraOmega Street Fighter IV in between. Likely gonna return to Injustice given that it's on PS+ Plus.

My all time favorite fighting game has to be Utimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3. Yes, it's broken. In fact, it's beyond broken. Even though it's years old, it seems like every couple of months somebody finds another broken thing. And I'm okay with that. I'll admit: part of the allure is just the spectacle. The are fireballs, beams, lasers, flying, teleporting, air dashing, transformations, characters cartoonishly bouncing off walls and floors, and saying cool things like "Time to die!", "So, long sucker!" and the ever-classic, "You like that?!" But at it's core, UMvC3 is simply a fun, frantic experience. The fact that it somehow ended up being more functional than it's team-based 3v3, 48-character, multiple system mechanics-styled gameplay should allow is just an amazing feat to me.
What are your favorite mechanics from the current selection of fighting games and why? What are your least favorite and why?
I've become quite a fan of BlazBlue/Injustice design of having three main attack buttons and a fourth dedicated to something character-specific. It encourages diversity in playstyles, even among characters of a similar archetype. Highlights would include: The slow down of Flash's Speed Zone, the weak points of Azreal's The Terror, and the risk-reward of the varying levels of Bane's Venom.

My least favorite at the moment has to be Reversals in Xrd. The window to do it is abnormally tight, you're better off going for a grab, and while there might be a reason, I can't tell, so I don't like it. :p
What got you into fighting games? Are there any other genre of games you play?
Waiting for pizza. There was a place we called "Best Pizza" that my folks would go to often that had a few arcade machines. I spent the most time with X-Men vs. Street Fighter and the first Marvel Vs. Capcom.

As of late, I've really been into RPG's, TellTale's narrative-based games and what GAF calls "Character Action".
What is your favorite fighting game character and why?
Phoenix Wright. It is an utter thing of beauty to see a player scrambling on the defensive before going on an assault with their gathered evidence and the most accusatory finger point in all of gaming. The animations and voicework sell that character, making him extremely fun to watch. Maya's pretty dope, too.
Describe your style of play, and how do you play (local, online, etc.).
My style is heavily influenced by momentum. I'm not too afraid of slowing down if I feel my opponent pressuring me, but I have no qualms pressing buttons and mauling the enemy if possible. Just depends of the flow of the match.

And I'm mostly online even if that powerline adapter has been really sketchy. I just started hanging out with my local FCG about a week ago.
What do you feel are your biggest strengths and weaknesses as a player?
My biggest weakness is getting too caught up in my own patterns: being content with blocking when jumping or using a reversal would gotten me out, or not knowing when to stop my own pressure and getting hit out of my offense.

My biggest strength is that usually I tend to play with most of a cast to some degree in games that aren't Tekken, and that familiarity helps down the road with match-up experience and the like.
Best and worst moments in the your fighting game career?
My best moment is that I defeated Shadow Jago in Killer Instinct.

My worst moment is that over the course of five hours and well over 100 matches, Shadow Jago beat me like a drum.
What do you want from future fighting games?
I'd like to see more exploration into what can be acheived in the 3D space. While that is speaking more towards the Gundam VS, J-Stars, and Dissidia style of games, I'd also be interested in seeing a more thought-out "Street Fighter"-ish take and how they might alter the strategic function of a sonic boom or shoryuken to account for three axes as opposed to two even if hypothethically it's never actually used with SF characters.

Also, I'd like to see more cool, unexpected licenses in use. I was pleasantly surprised by the first Persona 4 Arena and what CyberConnect2 continues to do with Naruto even if the gameplay ain't quite all there. I hope Netherrealm, Capcom, Arc System Works, and Bandai Namco have some cool stuff in the works that we just don't quite know about yet.
Who should be on next week's GAF Player Spotlight?
I would like TheChits for $200, Alex.
Since Dahbomb strongly encourages pre-orders, what games do you plan to buy that have been officially announced?
Fighting game related, MKX is the next big thing for me. I still can't believe they are bringing J-Stars over, so I'll probably cop that. In other genres, I'm looking at The Order:1886 and Bloodborne.


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Code:
WINTER The King of Fighters 2002 Unlimited Match
02/17  Dead or Alive 5: LAST ROUND (EU: 02/20)
04/15  Mortal Kombat X
2015   Dragon Ball Xenoverse
2015   Rivals of Aether
2015   Skullgirls Encore
2015   Under Night In-Birth (NA/EU)
TBD    Beast's Fury
TBD    Next The King Of Fighters Title (tentative)
TBD    Rise of Incarnates
TBD    Street Fighter V
TBD    Tekken 7
TBD    Tekken X Street Fighter
TBD    Yatagarasu: Attack on Cataclysm
TBD    Yatagarasu: Legend of Raven


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Super Desperation Radio [ 9:30PM EDT | 6:30 PDT ]
  • Hellpockets and various other members of the KoF community discuss KoF and happenings in the FGC.
Marvel Mondays [ 10PM EDT | 7PM PDT ]
  • Out of the ashes of The BOX Arena, comes the San Diego FGC's newest organized weekly for UMvC3.
UltraChenTV: First Attack & Lv3 Focus [ 11:30PM EDT | 8:30PM PDT ]
  • Weekly FGC show dedicated to match analysis, teaching, commentary, news, debates, and more! Hosted by UltraDavid and James Chen.


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Kachitagari TV (JP) [ 9PM JST | 8AM EDT | 5AM PDT ]
  • Bon-chan, Kazunoko and Fuudo's new show, focusing primarily on SSFIV AE ranked matches but is branching off into other games as well.
NYC VF [ 8PM EDT | 5PM PDT ]
  • NYC VF crew presents VF5:FS tournaments casuals out of The Next Level arcade in Brooklyn.
The Break Weekly [ 8PM EDT | 5PM PDT ]
  • New Jersey's largest weekly featuring UMvC3 and Injustice.
The On Blast Show [ 10PM EDT | 7PM PDT ]
  • JamessMK & DarKNaTaS host a raw and uncut weekly talk show discussing events in the FGC with various FGC personalities.
UltraChenTV: The Tuesday Show [ 11:30PM EDT | 8:30PM PDT ]
  • Weekly FGC show dedicated to match analysis, teaching, commentary, news, debates, and more! Hosted by UltraDavid and James Chen.
The Show That Sucks [ 1AM EDT (following day) | 10PM PDT ]
  • iPlaywinner hosts a weekly talk show featuring alpha stream monsters Harrison and Honzo Gonzo.


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Game Spot Versus KoF Casuals (JP) [ 7PM JST | 6AM EDT | 3AM PDT ]
  • KoF 1998UM, KoF 2002UM and KoF XIII C action from Japan.
TOPANGA TV (JP) [ 9PM JST | 8AM EDT | 5AM PDT ]
  • Description needed.
Next Level Battle Circuit [ 8PM EDT | 4PM PDT ]
  • NYC's biggest weekly at The Next Level Arcade in Brooklyn featuring SSFIV AE, UMvC3 and TTT2. If the Teamsp00ky link is not working, it is likely on the backup stream on Arturo's channel.
Wednesday Night Fights [ 12AM EDT (following day) | 9PM PDT ] [ON HIATUS]


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HBTB Live [ 8PM EDT | 5PM PDT ]
  • Hold Back To Block hosts a weekly roundtable discussion of various happenings in the FGC.
Melee It On Me [ 9PM EDT | 6PM PDT ]
  • A bi-weekly Smash podcast discussing recent events, news and issues in the Smash community, hosted by Scar, Prog, Cactuar and Sheridan.
Ghost Battle Series [ 9PM CST | 10PM EDT | 7PM PDT ]
  • Galloping Ghost Arcade presents an Injustice weekly out of Chicago.
The Fray [ 10PM EDT | 7PM PDT ]
  • A weekly FGC talk show hosted by iPlaywinner, featuring a varying, ensemble cast of prominent members of the fighting game community.
ATP LIVE! [ 11PM EDT | 8PM PDT ]
  • Aris' new weekly show, discussing whatever he wants to! The format resembles old ATP podcasts.
The Runback [ 12AM EDT (following day) | 9PM PDT ] [ON HIATUS]
  • The UMvC3 and KoF XIII branch of Wednesday Night Fights also hosted at Super Arcade in Walnut, California.


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The Smash Break Bi-Weekly [ 6PM EDT | 3PM PDT ]
  • The Break hosts a new Melee bi-weekly to replace Rokunaya Bi-Weeklies which are ending.
Thank God It's Team Stickbug [ 7PM EDT | 4PM PDT ]
  • Arturo streams a BlazBlue and Guilty Gear bi-weekly out of Next Level arcade in Brooklyn.
KaoTV! (JP) [ 11PM JST | 10AM EDT | 7AM PDT ]
SALTY! [ 11PM EDT | 8PM PDT ]
  • A bi-weekly Skullgirls event hosted by members of the Skullgirls development team, often featuring preview builds of the game.


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Rebel Up [ 7PM EDT | 4PM PDT ]
  • Super Arcade's anime bi-weekly, featuring GG, BB, P4A, SG, Gundam and older anime games as well.


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GGPO VanBats [ 4PM EDT | 1PM PDT ]
  • Weekly GGPO Vampire Savior ranbats streamed by GAFer Rotanibor.
Super Smash Sundays [ 4PM EDT | 1PM PDT ] [ON HIATUS]
  • Level|Up and Team OXY partner up to create a new weekly for the SoCal Melee community, featuring doubles and singles.


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On GAF we have various members that stream fighting games from time to time too. If you would like to add your channel to this thread, send me a PM.

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Often, some fighting games can seem intimidating to players new and old. Below are a bunch of resources that may be of aid to new players, or handy as references.
  • Learn How To Play Fighting Games Free eBook from Shoryuken is a fantastic primer for new players to the genre.
  • Footsies Handbook is a guide to the potentially elusive, but integral part of doing well in any fighting game.
  • NeoGAF's Arcade Stick Thread is the place to go for questions about anything arcade stick-related.
  • Step Up Your Game is an editorial series by Justin Wong that covers a multitude of topics, notably focusing on strengthening your mental game and playing smarter instead of harder.
  • Tips for first time competitors will help you straighten out those nerves and expectations when you head out to your first tournament.
  • Domination 101 is almost a cult classic article in the FGC, which has Seth Killian telling us how he really feels about the idea of "cheapness" in fighting games.
  • Team-building Guide by our very own Karsticles, which helps make it easier to approach team-building in MvC games, and games with similar synergistic elements.
For a list of NeoGAF OTs for specific fighting games, as well as a list of non-GAF fighting game communities that may be of interest, check out the FGW Archive where these resources can be found on separate sheets at the bottom.

- - -

If you have any suggestions for the OP, please do not hesitate to post in this thread or (preferably) PM me to let me know.
 
Reposting for topical discussion:

I like Skullgirls and Xrd, and I think both have some poor design decisions. MikeZ needs to make up his goddamn mind about the combo system, because BlazBlue has fewer senseless system changes than Skulllgirls. Also, supers hitting on frame 1 is moronic, and rewards stupid play.

Xrd has bursts, which I still think are a poor game mechanic. Double tap to dash needs to die a horrible painful death. The game would be so much smoother with two-button dashes.

MikeZ can hate on Xrd all he wants, just like the dozen or so people that stayed behind to play Marvel 2. I don't see why anyone needs to attack his choice when some people still main Street Fighter 2 in this community. My parents still prefer to primarily watch black and white movies. Last I checked, color films are doing just fine, and so are new fighting game releases. Move on.
 

Zissou

Member
Preferring older games is fine. I'd just rather people show why their old game is awesome (having events like the ST tournament of legends) instead of hating on new games (MikeZ posting condemning Xrd on dustloop after playing a demo of it or whatever).
 

Sayad

Member
Nice title, and last week of the year of anime, yay! \o/
So how would that affect continuous dash like Sol's?

I would be fine with two button dash for AD
I think Karst is mainly referring to ADs, but with continues dashes, you'd be clicking two buttons to initiate the dash and then holding forward to keep it going. Though this might get in the way of micro dashes.
 

4r5

Member
I like joystick taps for dashes. It let's you read a dash by the jitter of the character. Or you can fake a dash by jittering your char.

Fighting games with a guard button. Putting up your guard for a split second can be a huge tell to your inner mental state.

Like, games without/with small proximity guard are disorienting. You whiffing attacks in front of someone's face and they don't transition in to their block animation. You can't tell if this guy is afraid or if he's a stone cold killer.
 

Zissou

Member
That was only for a few characters, though. BB and IJ made it part of the core game design.

For every single character in the game, didn't the stand button either activate/deactivate your stand or do some special character-unique thing? Jojo seems pretty clearly the precursor to the "three regular attack buttons plus one special button" scheme that is found in many anime fighters now.
 

Prototype

Member
Preferring older games is fine, as is specific ones. But complaining about the super cinematics in Xrd is absurd. They are very short compared to most other games.

And I agree with whoever said it; it does seem like Mike Z hates anything post 2000. Whatever, his loss. The new Roman Cancel system is super fun. And having bursts is nice and I wish they were in Marvel.
 

Zissou

Member
Preferring older games is fine, as is specific ones. But complaining about the super cinematics in Xrd is absurd. They are very short compared to most other games.

And I agree with whoever said it; it does seem like Mike Z hates anything post 2000. Whatever, his loss. The new Roman Cancel system is super fun. And having bursts is nice and I wish they were in Marvel.

Having only recently gotten into GG, I HAAAAATED bursts at first, but now I kind of see their necessity. Offense/pressure is so strong in GG that you kind of need something that can return the game to a neutral situation. Burst means you get to at least play the neutral twice(ish) per round (unless you get burst baited or whatever). I think burst would be kind of dumb in marvel though- I'd rather there be some way to weaken incoming mix-ups (spend meter to delay your incoming timing, etc.), to decrease the odds of it becoming a one player game the moment somebody lands a clean hit.
 

Prototype

Member
Having only recently gotten into GG, I HAAAAATED bursts at first, but now I kind of see their necessity. Offense/pressure is so strong in GG that you kind of need something that can return the game to a neutral situation. Burst means you get to at least play the neutral twice(ish) per round (unless you get burst baited or whatever). I think burst would be kind of dumb in marvel though- I'd rather there be some way to weaken incoming mix-ups (spend meter to delay your incoming timing, etc.), to decrease the odds of it becoming a one player game the moment somebody lands a clean hit.
I agree with you for the most part.

In GG, it does feel nice, like a breath of fresh air,and getting to spend more time in the neutral makes the game more fun to play. I also love the meta around baiting a burst. Feels good when you get someone to pop theirs and you are waiting fir it just out of range.
 
About MikeZ and the hate and people.

I got more than a hundred hate comments on my review of Xrd because I questioned the game mechanics logic (why would you simplify some parts of a game for beginners and keep 1frame throws for example?), said the art direction was lame compared to old episodes and characters personalities were dumbed down to a childish level of shitty shonen. My conclusion was that as it felt and played like GG it was de facto a good game but that the changes both in mechanics and design directions was sitting with the ass between two stools (gave the game 7/10 and said it was a good fighting game but a half good guilty gear). I admit my review was way too cynical and hard on these points with bad writing at some parts as I was tired and needed more time to read it again.

But uh, talk about people being emotional about what they like. Some said I'm an old fan that can't adapt to change (I would have welcome more change to be honest, mostly on gameplay), some said I was a SF4 fan that could not admit Arc games were better (I'm known for not liking SF4 that much), and some questioned my ability to review fighting games (I'm doing this since 2012 on the same website without nobody complaining). For many my review was not "objective" because I have an opinion and I don't consider my job as a shopping guide writer that lists features but analyze what a game tries to be and if he succeeds. The same exact people tells you they want "real video game journalism" but they can't handle criticism based on facts or a reviewer having requirements about the game he reviews. It's like if you told them Fox News is Republican AND composed of journalists, they would not believe you as "FOX news is not objective". :facepalm:
The worst thing was seeing people I though were pals (travelled with them to play GG in tournaments for years) faking to know me and coming in the comments to say that the chief editor should fire me/better choose his writers. Well it helped making a fresh opinion about some people.

The conclusion I came to was that I was a "bad fan" for most players. Since I value a lot what people creates I am demanding and wants quality and consistency and I prefer not having a new game or having a completely different game over something that tries to be both and fail. Most of people wants a new episode of a brand and don't care about quality and consistency if they get something new, it's like drug addicts. I'm not a developer or a fighting game creator so I can't talk for MikeZ but I think I understand why he does not like Xrd.
 

QisTopTier

XisBannedTier
Except Xrd still plays like GG the biggest change are the cancels.


It's like saying AC sucks because they overhauled the characters and added what were basically EX moves and a parry
 
Except Xrd still plays like GG the biggest change are the cancels.

It's like saying AC sucks because they overhauled the characters and added what were basically EX moves and a parry

That's why it's a good game and I gave it 7/10 as GG base gameplay is solid. But they did change a lot more than tweak the RC system and what I think was their goal didn't please me. I must leave now so I'll answer in more details later.
 

NEO0MJ

Member
For every single character in the game, didn't the stand button either activate/deactivate your stand or do some special character-unique thing? Jojo seems pretty clearly the precursor to the "three regular attack buttons plus one special button" scheme that is found in many anime fighters now.

Yeah, but most just summoned the stand, it didn't function like a unique button for a character for all the cast. I guess what I mean is that for most it felt like a stance change.
 

alstein

Member
Throughout the years GG fans have been really, incredibly hyper-sensitive about any criticism towards their game.
 

Mr. X

Member
AC is a better game than Xrd. Xrd is new and shiny. Stop being zealots when you're going to drop it in 3 months due to another new game or online players being too strong and abusing that good ol' cheap stuff.
 

casperOne

Member
Throughout the years GG fans have been really, incredibly hyper-sensitive about any criticism towards their game.

Funny, there's one other franchise going through this right now (new game released, has hardcore fans of the old version that are hyper sensitive) I can think of.
 

Spuck-uk

Banned
Xrd was so good until I found out that the throws are one frame and unbreakable.

This is one of the best things about the game. They have minute range to make up for it, and do kinda lousy damage.

Funny, there's one other franchise going through this right now (new game released, has hardcore fans of the old version that are hyper sensitive) I can think of.

To be fair, Smash fans have been whining about the newer games for what, 7 years now?
 

Mr. X

Member
Im happy its possible to play the title you want to play. It sucks that people want to bust your chops for not liking the new game and getting in your ass about your opinion like you are suppose to withhold it because they like it.
 
Thomasauras:

Harada gets a lot of hate in Twitter every time a new clip of T7 releases. I'd suggest you just do what he does and be confident in your knowledge of the game and your opinion, and ignore the idiots.

If there is a reasonable argument to be made against your opinion, then be confident you can engage in it. If no one presents a reasonable argument, then everyone can fuck off.
 

kirblar

Member
That might be because there's nothing wrong with reasonable criticism and it's the "emotional" stuff that make it seem like he have some personal issue against the game!
From the previous page- basically this. YRCs, for instance, were getting a lot of negative feedback. It's not what he says- it's how he says it and why he says it.
 

Kimosabae

Banned
I can't sympathize with most of the criticisms against Xrd at all. It's no +R for sure, but the game is absolutely good enough, and the revisions are coming. People just seem to be criticizing without perspective at all. There's FG sequels like SF4 and Brawl that will almost literally decimate your commitment to the previous game with their changes. Xrd doesn't do that, and is still fun to explore.

I think people are happy with Xrd for the most part. If they're not happy now, they'll be back for the revision and that game will likely address their issues.

In defense of the Smash community: the broad stroke cartoon as a community entrenched in conservatism isn't analogous. The sequels to Melee are almost universally considered to be poor competitive fighting games.
 
In defense of the Smash community: the broad stroke cartoon as a community entrenched in conservatism isn't analogous. The sequels to Melee are almost universally considered to be poor competitive fighting games.

It still baffles me that this is the case. It's like the dev team are living in 2005.

"We need that casual money"

"But there's like a million games out there that cater to hardcore players and make bank"

"But the CASUALS man"
 

Tizoc

Member
2014 goes by, KoF's 20th anniversary, and SNK barely had anything KoF 14 related to show for it....
 

alstein

Member
From the previous page- basically this. YRCs, for instance, were getting a lot of negative feedback. It's not what he says- it's how he says it and why he says it.

Sirlin has been raving about Xrd- calling it one of the best GGs ever.
 

casperOne

Member
I can't sympathize with most of the criticisms against Xrd at all. It's no +R for sure, but the game is absolutely good enough, and the revisions are coming. People just seem to be criticizing without perspective at all. There's FG sequels like SF4 and Brawl that will almost literally decimate your commitment to the previous game with their changes.

If you're coming from 3S, then yes, I agree with you. However, I didn't find that to be the case at all if you were coming from ST.

To be fair SF3 did the same thing to people who were into ST hard core.
 

Kimosabae

Banned
If you're coming from 3S, then yes, I agree with you. However, I didn't find that to be the case at all if you were coming from ST.

To be fair SF3 did the same thing to people who were into ST hard core.

Notice the wording. A consistent pattern of the SF series is the developers make drastic changes that alienate the core base of the previous game.
 
AC is a better game than Xrd. Xrd is new and shiny. Stop being zealots when you're going to drop it in 3 months due to another new game or online players being too strong and abusing that good ol' cheap stuff.

Funny, there's one other franchise going through this right now (new game released, has hardcore fans of the old version that are hyper sensitive) I can think of.

To be fair, Smash fans have been whining about the newer games for what, 7 years now?

Im happy its possible to play the title you want to play. It sucks that people want to bust your chops for not liking the new game and getting in your ass about your opinion like you are suppose to withhold it because they like it.

I think the main thing that grinds my gears about the whole GG drama are the people going all it's not GG. Like, if you ask me what the best Smash game is it'll take half a heartbeat for me to say "Melee". It's just the best and feels amazing and all that jazz, and playing Brawl makes me want to snap my disc unless I'm playing MK, Pika or Zelda. But even then, it'd be utterly moronic to claim that Brawl is not Smash. It very plainly *is* a Smash game. One that plays out differently, sure, and one that feels bad, sure. But it's still Smash, plain as day.

So then some tools come and say Xrd is not GG or is a really goddamn bad game because it lacks EX moves or a miniscule throw tech window? Really? Yes, it's not the same. The look is different, cleaner. The controls feel a bit different, character designs differ, liking FRC/PRC more than YRC/RRC/PRC system, yeah fair enough. But not ******* GUILTY GEAR? Or that Xrd is a Bad Game because any reason that is not the new RC system. You're seriously saying EX moves were the one thing that made an otherwise mediocre system The Best Thing Ever?

There's just limits to that kind of ludicrousness. Or should be, anyway.

Sirlin has been raving about Xrd- calling it one of the best GGs ever.

This actually makes me worried :p
 

BadWolf

Member
2014 goes by, KoF's 20th anniversary, and SNK barely had anything KoF 14 related to show for it....

They announced KOF13 in February of 2010, did live gameplay/preview in March 2010 and released the game in arcades in July, 2010.

Seems they aren't into showing games a year or more before release ala Capcom.
 

Papstr

Neo Member
I find the lack of throw tech complaint sort of odd because I've personally never witnessed an intentional tech in AC anyway.
 

Silky

Banned
2014 goes by, KoF's 20th anniversary, and SNK barely had anything KoF 14 related to show for it....

It's probably not ready yet. I can wait. 2015 will be likely when it's ready to show off.

SNK's getting used to Steam and releasing their products there. They JUST NOW have a social media outlets to get in touch.
 
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