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Fighting Games Weekly | June 15-21 | 16 is barely okay

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
Jun 10, 2013
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Anne

Member
Dec 31, 2013
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This already been posted here? Apparently in Xrd you can OS so you get faultless defense if your opponent does nothing but if they do something, you get a special o_O

It's a version of proximity OS. People are still figuring out the viability of it since OSes in that family tend to be hit and miss. Remember in SF4 when people thought it was the end of days? We dunno yet. Seems pretty good in some char specific scenarios at the moment, but need's more testing in real macthe.

LK has been tweeting about it.

TBH we probably could've predicted this and just didn't mess with it cause these types of things tend to not end up as good as they seem. Xrd's not my space though so I never mess with it.
 

CPS2

Member
Dec 31, 2006
5,017
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Homogenizing and trying to erase the differences of each scene/regions culture benefits no one. Like why try to force SF jargon onto the Smash scene? It's "westernization" where SF is the dominant game atm.
Smash players are so pringles though.
 

ShinMaruku

Member
Jun 22, 2013
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I think when people say FGC they mean Street Fighter and whatever else catches fire. You can'y say DOA is part of the FGC, can't say VF is, Tekken every new release has a small window where they can get in. As much as people like to joke fuck Anime those communities are more open than the regular street fighter cabal. :p
 

Dahbomb

Member
Jan 18, 2006
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This stuff if so confusing. What would make someon say "You know what we need to do? Give him one frame where the hitbox is nothing like the animation. Just one."
Has to be unintentional just like the Foot Dive hitbox.. I can't imagine someone putting that in intentionally as a character feature.
 

Tripon

Member
May 24, 2013
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https://twitter.com/iStarLPs/status/611761662043926528
 

Dahbomb

Member
Jan 18, 2006
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Except you have to directly create a hitbox. It can't be an unintended consequence like TAC infinites.
What's going in there is the animation of the hitboxes that's wonky. It was as if the developers told the animators how the hitboxes were supposed to be and while animating them out they messed up. It's a mistake for sure. Since it happens on one frame it's also hard to catch when you are looking at so many things at one time. Hell the issue of Foot Dive hit box was debated for a long time before people realized what was going on.

And unintended hitbox/hurtbox errors happen all the time. Look at what happened with the original versions of USF4 with wonky as fuck character hurtboxes/hit boxes. Before that some of the new characters didn't even have hurtboxes on their moves! (similar to how Birdie is right now in SFV). Some of those things are bigger errors than accidentally having a giant red box on a character for 1 frame.
 

Karsticles

Member
Oct 25, 2010
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Florida
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What's going in there is the animation of the hitboxes that's wonky. It was as if the developers told the animators how the hitboxes were supposed to be and while animating them out they messed up. It's a mistake for sure. Since it happens on one frame it's also hard to catch when you are looking at so many things at one time. Hell the issue of Foot Dive hit box was debated for a long time before people realized what was going on.

And unintended hitbox/hurtbox errors happen all the time. Look at what happened with the original versions of USF4 with wonky as fuck character hurtboxes/hit boxes. Before that some of the new characters didn't even have hurtboxes on their moves! (similar to how Birdie is right now in SFV). Some of those things are bigger errors than accidentally having a giant red box on a character for 1 frame.
You can forget to add a hurtbox, but adding one where it shouldn't be is harder to justify. Especially when it has survived a full update and multiple patches. I don't disagree that it was probably carelessly done in adherence to the animation, but "unintended" is going too far.
 

Dahbomb

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Jan 18, 2006
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You can forget to add a hurtbox, but adding one where it shouldn't be is harder to justify. Especially when it has survived a full update and multiple patches. I don't disagree that it was probably carelessly done in adherence to the animation, but "unintended" is going too far.
Multiple patches is stretching it, let's be real here. Even then, there were like a hundred other things that needed to be fixed before something like Foot Dive in the game (like the interactions between buff hypers and X factor). Also Foot Dive was changed from Vanilla to Ultimate (it comes out much faster). Since we don't have a hit box viewer for Vanilla it's hard to know for sure if the 1 frame thing was added in Ultimate (by accident or other means) or if it was always there. I feel like someone should test it out to see how different the hit boxes were between the two versions.

My theory here is that since MVC3 used a completely different hit box generation system than other games, it resulted in stuff like Foot Dive (and a few other moves in the game) with some outlandish hit boxes as it was a fairly new system for Capcom fighters. Maybe their engine for generating hit boxes (or hit spheres to be more accurate) required that you first started with a giant block of red and then cut that down from the character to fit the move.

I guess I agree with you that "careless" is more accurate here than "unintended" but to me those are two very similar things when it comes to balancing. Like say you are careless with frame testing and you add 1 frame of hit stun too many to a move which results in an infinite. Now of course infinites are unintended but someone had to manually plug in the value for the move to have that much hit stun so they were careless. And thus, a careless action resulted in an unintended application of a move. Much likehow careless rendering of the hitboxes of Doom's Footdive resulted in unintended usage of the move (like it being used as a reversal and even as an anti-air).

This stuff always fascinates me.
 

Seyavesh

Member
Aug 14, 2013
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both marvel and sf4 hitboxes/hurtboxes/bubbles are built from/matched to the skeleton and supposedly that's a major factor in the wonkiness you see from em
you can clearly see it when you look at active hitboxes in motion, rather than just one big thing there's clear hurtboxes for major bones
it's also easily showable with a really funny thing using hsien-ko: her idle animation has her head swing back for a few frames and if you use wesker's gunshot during those frames it will actually very closely whiff when otherwise it'd hit
iirc tron has something like that too where her idle animation expands her hurtbox

in regards to weird hitbox/hurtbox mechanics, marvel has an interesting trait where the first frame of an active attack will dislocate based on the momentum of the attacker at the time, leading to all the weird as fuck dashing hitboxes you see from the airdash chars.

it's also a thing with those characters that keep momentum on the ground through their attacks like x23, iron fist and taskmaster. for example taskmaster's shield charge has actually has two hitboxes at first they overlap at the front of the shield, but one of them will drag to match the momentum of taskmaster when he does the move.

in comparison cap's charging star has nothing like that, it's a fixed singular hitbox that follows the move regardless
 

Dahbomb

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Jan 18, 2006
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in regards to weird hitbox/hurtbox mechanics, marvel has an interesting trait where the first frame of an active attack will dislocate based on the momentum of the attacker at the time, leading to all the weird as fuck dashing hitboxes you see from the airdash chars.
Yeah this is certainly a thing in Marvel 3 and guess what character abuses this shit the most...
 

Coffeeling

Member
Dec 23, 2013
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I wish fighting games would go back to intro animations that weren't all cinematic and fancy.

Just give me Wolvey jumping in from the side saying, "Let's go, Bub!" *Snikt*

https://youtu.be/VJoMtrxl1RE?t=18s

The best stuff.

They need to take a page from how KOF 13 does their Neo Max.

Short and Stylish.

Yup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89nNsPUhewc

<3

I like that Ryo's neomax completely gratuitously breaks the opponent's guard on block (Ryo can't convert it into anything) just to show how goddamn hard that punch hits.

This already been posted here? Apparently in Xrd you can OS so you get faultless defense if your opponent does nothing but if they do something, you get a special o_O

The video title is the best.

Kusoge Gorilla OS

UNGAAA!

Fuck staying up until 3 am. I wanna watch Daigo body some fools but it ain't worth it.

livestreamer -o SEAM.mp4 twitch.tv/capcomfighters best


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oIOkkkgdXA

Best music.

both marvel and sf4 hitboxes/hurtboxes/bubbles are built from/matched to the skeleton and supposedly that's a major factor in the wonkiness you see from em
you can clearly see it when you look at active hitboxes in motion, rather than just one big thing there's clear hurtboxes for major bones

I'll plug this here again:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=168621758&highlight=#post168621758
 

Anne

Member
Dec 31, 2013
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Turn brain off funny?

If it's applicable it's going to turn certain situations into minimal/0 risk while allowing for high reward in specific spots. What's going to be even better is if you can input something else on top of this.

Like somebody runs up in neutral and inputs this OS. You do something, that OS comes out and if they are rolling the right option for that spacing/situation, bam, they win. You do nothing, they flash FD and can roll an entirely different option if they want.

Or you're on offense and you leave a small gap to create a guess. Your opponent does a fuzzy OS with a special move. If you try to hit something to pressure them, they're special move comes out and challenges your pressure. You decide to bait the special move by blocking, bu they just flash FD instead and now the situation is less in your favor.

Things that normally deal well with those options anyways will still work for the most part probably (look at Millia and Zato oki), but things where those options worked but carried risk, well, what risk now? In neutral where a character like Slayer is going to choose to do a high reward special move fishing for a CH, if you choose to block looking for it he just flashes FD and rolls something else in your face or returns to neutral.

That's all in theory btw. It needs to be tried out in matches a lot to figure out if it's applicable in all those situations, and some of the inputs and ways to perform the OS are pretty strict and I'm not into GG enough to tell you how plausible they'll be. In magical theory land though it's p hilarious.
 

Coffeeling

Member
Dec 23, 2013
1,469
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Tokido Hugo. What the hell is going on here. Did someone put hallucinogens in my coffee? o_O'


EDIT: Tokido ELENA??? I can go back to bed now, because this stuff ain't real.

Infiltrachun with the alcohol tech :O
 

pixelish

Member
Apr 30, 2013
4,557
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seam 2015 is probably the best tournament of 2015 so far stream production wise

stream started on time
minimal and brief breaks
good camera control (maybe i'm the only one here but i enjoy watching crowd/player reactions during mid-match and post-match)
great commentary with zhi not being too offensive
most of all, extremely high quality matches from pools all the way to grand finals.