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Fighting Games Weekly | May 12-18 | The Bracket Racket

I

Immortal Technique

Member
SweetJohnnyCage said:
Had that been said in the article, instead of "but it’s absolutely necessary to maintain the trust that events are run fairly for all players, not just those that happen to be sponsored by major organizations.", you'd clearly see that's exactly what we did. What we did for one set of teammates, we did with the other.
.
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The article could have mentioned PIE, but what they are saying was still right on the money. It's not a question of favoring one organization over another, it's favoring players in organizations over players without.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
call_kotaku said:
I don't think anyone will disagree now that everyone should abstain from these sort of bracket "fixes" in the future regardless of whatever good/dubious intentions they may have. When the best-case scenario is that it didn't affect the outcome of the tournament then I don't think it's worth doing.
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Especially in the context of the general maturity level of top players.

For example after bracket changes we get Magneto in grand finals. Now Chris G played amazingly well and won with two characters anyway... But once you start giving an inch it has been shown certain people will take a mile every time.

Then it is "sorry I didn't know, won't happen again" time and the cycle continues. Best to just stamp it all out.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
For example after bracket changes we get Magneto in grand finals. Now Chris G played amazingly well and won with two characters anyway... But once you start giving an inch it has been shown certain people will take a mile every time.
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Don't know what that example has to do with anything.

Neo was saying that ChrisG used that team specifically as a "counter" to Justin. Justin is notorious for shutting down anchor Vergils because of his Wolverine pressure on incoming. Magneto has better escapes and the Disruptor assist is a good get off me assist for Morrigan (fast start up and comes behind the point character).

So it wasn't really a troll pick.
 
I

Infinite

Member
Dahbomb said:
Don't know what that example has to do with anything.

Neo was saying that ChrisG used that team specifically as a "counter" to Justin. Justin is notorious for shutting down anchor Vergils because of his Wolverine pressure on incoming. Magneto has better escapes and the Disruptor assist is a good get off me assist for Morrigan (fast start up and comes behind the point character).

So it wasn't really a troll pick.
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Don't forget Shockwave DHC.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
Dahbomb said:
Don't know what that example has to do with anything.

Neo was saying that ChrisG used that team specifically as a "counter" to Justin. Justin is notorious for shutting down anchor Vergils because of his Wolverine pressure on incoming. Magneto has better escapes and the Disruptor assist is a good get off me assist for Morrigan (fast start up and comes behind the point character).

So it wasn't really a troll pick.
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The commentators made special mention of the pick and how bad his Magneto was. You could call it bad commentary, but given the history, perception of similar matches and the fact that it was questioned publicly at the time matters.

But then he won quickly so it became a non-issue.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Osu 16 Bit said:
Ok? I've also been in EVO top 8 and my tournament success is heavily based on path. Match ups, both player and character, matter.
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Exactly this. Matchups ALWAYS matter unless its a round-robin format.

I got knocked out of SCG DC a year ago in the top 8 facing the one deck I had a losing matchup to. Had I faced any of the other 7, I had a much better chance of moving on and possibly winning the event. Damn that Reid Duke. Damn him to whatever hell they have for super-respectful classy players. :p

Also, yeah, ChrisG has busted out the Anchor Magneto on occasion outside of that match. It was definitely not the fragrance of collusion.
 
I

Immortal Technique

Member
Tik-Tok said:
Cause no one else was good enough to get to the end.
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It's completely flawed logic, as I think 16-bit attempted to explain, but even besides that, you are acting as if only first place matters. It does make a difference to plenty of people whether they finish 3rd, or 7th, or 17th, or 33rd..
 
B

BakedYams

Slayer of Combofiends
kirblar said:
Exactly this. Matchups ALWAYS matter unless its a round-robin format.

I got knocked out of SCG DC a year ago in the top 8 facing the one deck I had a losing matchup to. Had I faced any of the other 7, I had a much better chance of moving on and possibly winning the event. Damn that Reid Duke. Damn him to whatever hell they have for super-respectful classy players. :p

Also, yeah, ChrisG has busted out the Anchor Magneto on occasion outside of that match. It was definitely not the fragrance of collusion.
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SCG DC? I have no idea what this is.
 
D

Dahbomb

Member
toddhunter said:
The commentators made special mention of the pick and how bad his Magneto was. You could call it bad commentary, but given the history, perception of similar matches and the fact that it was questioned publicly at the time matters.

But then he won quickly so it became a non-issue.
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His Magneto his bad but he didn't pick Magneto for the point capabilities. Like he could've picked Akuma there and it would've been the same thing in terms of what he was trying to do.
 
U

UltraDavid

Member
SweetJohnnyCage said:
I haven't read the whole thread, so I'll just say this regarding the bracket change:

The was no "rigging" of the brackets. Justin nor Ricky ever came to us about it. We saw they were close, and moved them. I have said repeatedly that moving people in top 32 is iffy, and moving in top 16 should never happen. The change was made before we even started Sunday, and no matches had been played yet. Everyone is going to believe what they want to believe, and we can't change that. We changed the bracket positions to make it so players from the same team didn't play each other. It's really that simple.

Writing an article on SRK and using us as an example is one thing, but saying things like "As two of the best players in attendance, this gave both teammates an advantage going into the top thirty-two that was afforded to no one else." is just uncalled for, and it's bad reporting. It wasn't done just for Ricky and Justin because they're Ricky and Justin. It was done because they're players on the same team, hence why Ricky was switched with Lee Chung, who was in the exact same position with Zeus (they're both Team PIE). Had that been said in the article, instead of "but it’s absolutely necessary to maintain the trust that events are run fairly for all players, not just those that happen to be sponsored by major organizations.", you'd clearly see that's exactly what we did. What we did for one set of teammates, we did with the other.

I do not expect to win anyone over with this post. We accept the responsibility of our actions, as always. We're not going to shirk it off on anyone, because Joe and I were the ones who made the decision.
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Thanks for the post, but I really wish you guys and all tournament organizers would stop floating entirely. You know which pool's winner will play which other pool's winner ahead of time, so if it's important that team members not play each other (and I'm not convinced it is but if people think so then that's fine), they should be separated so that if they both win a pool they won't play each other right after. The team thing is usually about top player privilege since top players make up the vast majority of players on teams anyone cares about, but this isn't just about top players and perceived top player privilege. It's also not very nice to the other players. For example, Lucky D went from playing against Lee Chung to playing against Ricky Ortiz. Ricky's character Rufus dominates Lucky D's character Dhalsim and Ricky knows that match super well because of his experience against FChamp, so this switch took him from whatever chances he would have had against Lee Chung (obviously not saying he would have won) to one of the worst draws he could get. Without this bracket change, who knows, maybe he would have made it into winners finals before having to face a top Rufus.

I'd rather everyone be relatively sure that they won't get screwed than favor the few players who are on teams or, in other cases at other tournaments, know the TOs, can bully bracket runners, etc. I hope tournament organizers come to agree in the future.
 
I

Infinite

Member
toddhunter said:
The commentators made special mention of the pick and how bad his Magneto was. You could call it bad commentary, but given the history, perception of similar matches and the fact that it was questioned publicly at the time matters.

But then he won quickly so it became a non-issue.
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Yeah his Magneto isn't up their with rayray's or Champ's to say the least but it was on the team for utility.
 
T

Tik-Tok

Member
Immortal Technique said:
It's completely flawed logic, as I think 16-bit attempted to explain, but even besides that, you are acting as if only first place matters. It does make a difference to plenty of people whether they finish 3rd, or 7th, or 17th, or 33rd..
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In this case it was a matter of will you face one rufus or the other, And the only people who should care are those who finish in the money or just outside,

Honestly at the level of play where you're making top 8 at a major even the bad matchups arent as big a deal.
 
O

Osu 16 Bit

Member
Tik-Tok said:
Honestly at the level of play where you're making top 8 at a major even the bad matchups arent as big a deal.
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No, that level of play is when bad matchups matter the most.

You keep talking about this specific tournament. You cannot allow floating because "well in this particular case it doesn't matter...Ricky is the best anyway".
 
T

Tik-Tok

Member
Osu 16 Bit said:
No, that level of play is when bad matchups matter the most.

You keep talking about this specific tournament. You cannot allow floating because "well in this particular case it doesn't matter...Ricky is the best anyway".
Click to expand...

Well I've already stated, that I support the practice of reseeding after pools for all tournaments.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
UltraDavid said:
For example, Lucky D went from playing against Lee Chung to playing against Ricky Ortiz. Ricky's character Rufus dominates Lucky D's character Dhalsim and Ricky knows that match super well because of his experience against FChamp, so this switch took him from whatever chances he would have had against Lee Chung (obviously not saying he would have won) to one of the worst draws he could get. Without this bracket change, who knows, maybe he would have made it into winners finals before having to face a top Rufus.
Click to expand...

That was the example I was looking for earlier.

Tik-Tok said:
Honestly at the level of play where you're making top 8 at a major even the bad matchups arent as big a deal.
Click to expand...

That is a pretty absurd statement. Why do you think Art played Rose? Just flipped a coin because it wasn't a big deal?

Tik-Tok said:
Well I've already stated, that I support the practice of reseeding after pools for all tournaments.
Click to expand...

In a way that would be fair to everybody? It is one thing to say you support it, another thing entirely to suggest a viable method.
 
P

Professor Beef

Banned
Hey Osu, I'm thinking about dipping my feet further into Injustice. I'm liking Grundy and Shazam, so are there any characters I should be careful about specifically that can body those two?
 
T

Tik-Tok

Member
toddhunter said:
That was the example I was looking for earlier.



That is a pretty absurd statement. Why do you think Art played Rose? Just flipped a coin because it wasn't a big deal?



In a way that would be fair to everybody? It is one thing to say you support it, another thing entirely to suggest a viable method.
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It's no more or less fair than how pools are made in the first place. There are no random pools the brackets are usually carefully crafted. Same process after pools.
 
O

Osu 16 Bit

Member
Professor Beef said:
Hey Osu, I'm thinking about dipping my feet further into Injustice. I'm liking Grundy and Shazam, so are there any characters I should be careful about specifically that can body those two?
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Both are lower tier characters so they have their share of bad matchups. It's Injustice though, so they can compete. I know Shazam struggles against hardcore zoning and anyone that can punish torpedo easily. A match like Green Lantern is hard for him because he zones him out and then when he gets to b+2 range he can punish anything Shazam does.

Check out Tyrant for Grundy. He plays at WNF all the time and is one of their best players. There's several good Shazams. Wonder Chef at WNF, Heroic Legacy and Pimpimjim here in Chicago at GGA and Digit from Texas, who just won Texas Showdown.
 
P

Professor Beef

Banned
Osu 16 Bit said:
Both are lower tier characters so they have their share of bad matchups. It's Injustice though, so they can compete. I know Shazam struggles against hardcore zoning and anyone that can punish torpedo easily. A match like Green Lantern is hard for him because he zones him out and then when he gets to b+2 range he can punish anything Shazam does.

Check out Tyrant for Grundy. He plays at WNF all the time and is one of their best players. There's several good Shazams. Wonder Chef at WNF, Heroic Legacy and Pimpimjim here in Chicago at GGA and Digit from Texas, who just won Texas Showdown.
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Of course they're low tier. Just my luck, as usual. :lol I wish there were other characters I liked using, but most of them are lame-o.
 
T

That Dude John

Member
Dahbomb said:
Is the PS4 version of Injustice worth getting? Does anyone play it online?
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At launch it was barren as heck, so I doubt it's any better now. If that's what you want, then stay on current gen. It wasn't a bad port at all, but I'd argue they did the bare minimum to get it running on PS4. Don't expect a "Definitive Edition"-style upgrade.
 
O

Osu 16 Bit

Member
Professor Beef said:
Of course they're low tier. Just my luck, as usual. :lol I wish there were other characters I liked using, but most of them are lame-o.
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I hear you. Catwoman is my favorite character and the only character I want to play and she's not any better than them. Low and mid tier isn't bad in this game though. I mean, in Shazam's hard match ups he's high risk but he can potentially kill with one knockdown. It's a match up heavy game and some of these lower characters do well against the top tier. Shazam holds his own against Bane and Aquaman.
 
T

theprodigy

Member
Osu 16 Bit said:
I hear you. Catwoman is my favorite character and the only character I want to play and she's not any better than them. Low and mid tier isn't bad in this game though. I mean, in Shazam's hard match ups he's high risk but he can potentially kill with one knockdown. It's a match up heavy game and some of these lower characters do well against the top tier. Shazam holds his own against Bane and Aquaman.
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so is there an Injustice matchup chart somewhere? :p
 
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