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Fighting Games Weekly | May 4-10 | WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD!

Juicebox_FGC

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It's like blocking Guy's run to slide or run to overhead thing. Slide always, always comes out quicker than the overhead, so you react to the run by blocking low, then you switch to a high block to block the high that will always come out later.

Haven't played MKX but sounds like the same exact thing.

This, just a bit faster.
 

Pompadour

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Dhalsim will probably not be in SFV. No one is attached to the character, just the gameplay style. He is E. Honda tier in fan love.


But you mained Ram...

I get the rest, but Ram...

Dhalsim made it to SFxT so I think he has alright chances. If I had to guess who would make it from the SF2 OG 8 I would say:

Ryu
Chun-Li
Ken
Dhalsim
Blanka

E. Honda, as you said, is pretty unpopular. There are other popular grapplers in SF so Zangief isn't a guarantee. Guile's style has been made less boring with Charlie.

Blanks I only threw in because Ono likes him. Dhalsim has a very unique play style and every other character that plays similar to him is way less popular. My hope is they modernize his moveset, sort of like Charlie, instead of pointlessly coming up with a new character to do so. That was 3rd Strike's MO which wasn't exactly successful.
 

Onemic

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That is more a description of Xrd than MKX, though. MKX has several characters that win through keep away play, or zoning options. Xrd is the game that is 99% mix up rush options into heavy damage. Ram definitely fits under that.

Who are these characters besides Kitana if I may ask?
 

Malice215

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I can safely say I'll be grinding this game until SF5 next year.

Which at that point someone can quote me on it in 2016, but MKX will be dead as a door nail once SF5 comes out.

MKX is going to suffer the same fate as every other fighting game where most people will quit after they get tired of losing and move on to the next new game.

I'm waiting to see how it does after EVO, but right now it's hot and deserving of the spotlight under Street Fighter. What I don't get are the people who can't stand to see another game in the spotlight outside of people who want to be negative just because.
 

Karsticles

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Dhalsim made it to SFxT so I think he has alright chances. If I had to guess who would make it from the SF2 OG 8 I would say:

Ryu
Chun-Li
Ken
Dhalsim
Blanka

E. Honda, as you said, is pretty unpopular. There are other popular grapplers in SF so Zangief isn't a guarantee. Guile's style has been made less boring with Charlie.

Blanks I only threw in because Ono likes him. Dhalsim has a very unique play style and every other character that plays similar to him is way less popular. My hope is they modernize his moveset, sort of like Charlie, instead of pointlessly coming up with a new character to do so. That was 3rd Strike's MO which wasn't exactly successful.
Blanka...maybe. Ono likes him, but that might not be enough.

SFxT was almost all port characters. There were two unique cast members, and they were both significant among the fan base. Especially Poison. I don't think that is a good argument for anything.

Every game needs a "fresh" roster. That freshness needs to be mixed with familiarity. If a character doesn't provide the good, familiar feel, then that character is on the chopping block. SFxT was automatically fresh because it was a crossover, so it could rehash the character cast.

Dhalsim could return, and I would be cool with that, but he is far from guaranteed. Guarantees are Ryu, Akuma, Chun-li, and Bison. They have been in every title past 1. Ken is NOT guaranteed.

Who are these characters besides Kitana if I may ask?
Sub-Zero, Quan-chi, and Hellfire Scorpion come to mind. I don't know the cast super well, so there are probably more options. Those characters all play spacing / keep away games. I assume Erron Black and Ermac do as well.
 

zlatko

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I call something a 50/50 if the defender is forced to guess a high/low block at the same timing. With knowledge of the aggressor's strings and the startup of those attacks, the timing for -actually- blocking the options is almost always different, thus, not a 50/50 after practice.

Regarding Sonya, you can react to the stance with backdash or an armor move with anticipation.

It's like blocking Guy's run to slide or run to overhead thing. Slide always, always comes out quicker than the overhead, so you react to the run by blocking low, then you switch to a high block to block the high that will always come out later.

Haven't played MKX but sounds like the same exact thing. The timing for the high and the low have to be almost identical for it to be an actual 50/50.

Thanks guys that makes more sense.

As for the Sonya thing---back dash I didn't even consider. Great knowledge. Thanks Juice! :D
 

Onemic

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Blanka...maybe. Ono likes him, but that might not be enough.

SFxT was almost all port characters. There were two unique cast members, and they were both significant among the fan base. Especially Poison. I don't think that is a good argument for anything.

Every game needs a "fresh" roster. That freshness needs to be mixed with familiarity. If a character doesn't provide the good, familiar feel, then that character is on the chopping block. SFxT was automatically fresh because it was a crossover, so it could rehash the character cast.

Dhalsim could return, and I would be cool with that, but he is far from guaranteed. Guarantees are Ryu, Akuma, Chun-li, and Bison. They have been in every title past 1. Ken is NOT guaranteed.


Sub-Zero, Quan-chi, and Hellfire Scorpion come to mind. I don't know the cast super well, so there are probably more options. Those characters all play spacing / keep away games. I assume Erron Black and Ermac do as well.

I wouldnt really count sub or hellfire scorpion in there(Id instead add Kitana as she completely revolves around her zoning), but since we are, in comparison Xrd has:


May, Zato, Ky, Ram, Faust, Axl, Bedman, Elphelt, Venom, and Ram

Based on relativity between the two titles, Xrd has way more characters with viable zoning strategies.

In terms of avg dmg you talked about before, I'd also say that avg dmg in MKX is either the same or probably higher than the avg dmg in Xrd. Sure you can get high dmg in Xrd, but those come from CH's or other situational combos and from those you get dmg that's comparable to what you see in MKX for many characters avg BnB(i.e. Scropion, Bojutsu Kun Jin, Thunder God Raiden, Kotal, Cryo Sub, etc.). The avg BnB depending on the character will do around 20% or so.
 

Emperor Bohe

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howthefuckdidthathit



yo hitboxes



leave this thread b

 

Pompadour

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Blanka...maybe. Ono likes him, but that might not be enough.

SFxT was almost all port characters. There were two unique cast members, and they were both significant among the fan base. Especially Poison. I don't think that is a good argument for anything.

Every game needs a "fresh" roster. That freshness needs to be mixed with familiarity. If a character doesn't provide the good, familiar feel, then that character is on the chopping block. SFxT was automatically fresh because it was a crossover, so it could rehash the character cast.

Dhalsim could return, and I would be cool with that, but he is far from guaranteed. Guarantees are Ryu, Akuma, Chun-li, and Bison. They have been in every title past 1. Ken is NOT guaranteed.

I wouldn't mind Ken not making it into the base version of V but him and Ryu have been in the first iterations of I, II, Alpha, III, and IV. It would be odd for one of the only two characters to share that distinguishing characteristic in Street Fighter not to continue that tradition.
 

Karsticles

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I wouldnt really count sub or hellfire scorpion in there(Id instead add Kitana as she completely revolves around her zoning), but since we are, in comparison Xrd has:


May, Zato, Ky, Ram, Faust, Axl, Bedman, Elphelt, Venom, and Ram

Based on relativity between the two titles, Xrd has way more characters with viable zoning strategies.

In terms of avg dmg you talked about before, I'd also say that avg dmg in MKX is either the same or probably higher than the avg dmg in Xrd. Sure you can get high dmg in Xrd, but those come from CH's or other situational combos. The avg BnB depending on the character will do around 20% or so.
Lol. Most of those characters can't win by zoning. Zoning Zato, is that a joke?

MKX has characters that win 100% through keep away. In Xrd, except for Axl, you always rush to win. ASW games only have ranged options to provide variations on how to rush opponents. You never are supposed to stay back and play keep away. It is anathema to their design approach.

You don't just sit back and swing swords with Ram. You swing one to start a blockstring, and then you rush. This is the case for that entire cast. Even Axl players usually rush after getting the knockdown.

You can't win in ASW games (maybe P4A?) through keep away because you can negate chip damage whenever you feel like it. Keep away is inherently crap. Find me any video of a top Xrd player (especially Zato!) winning through a pure keep away strategy like MKX characters.

I wouldn't mind Ken not making it into the base version of V but him and Ryu have been in the first iterations of I, II, Alpha, III, and IV. It would be odd for one of the only two characters to share that distinguishing characteristic in Street Fighter not to continue that tradition.
The leaker for SFV says he won't be in, so I am skeptical.
 

Onemic

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I wouldn't mind Ken not making it into the base version of V but him and Ryu have been in the first iterations of I, II, Alpha, III, and IV. It would be odd for one of the only two characters to share that distinguishing characteristic in Street Fighter not to continue that tradition.

Bison was also never in SF3.

Lol. Most of those characters can't win by zoning. Zoning Zato, is that a joke?

MKX has characters that win 100% through keep away. In Xrd, except for Axl, you always rush to win. ASW games only have ranged options to provide variations on how to rush opponents. You never are supposed to stay back and play keep away. It is anathema to their design approach.

You don't just sit back and swing swords with Ram. You swing one to start a blockstring, and then you rush. This is the case for that entire cast. Even Axl players usually rush after getting the knockdown.

You can't win in ASW games (maybe P4A?) through keep away because you can negate chip damage whenever you feel like it. Keep away is inherently crap. Find me any video of a top Xrd player (especially Zato!) winning through a pure keep away strategy like MKX characters.


You named MKX characters that having zoning options and not their entire gamplan. The only character that comes to mind with that playstyle is Kitana and probably some variation of Shinnok or kung jin. Every character you named has zoning but it's just a means to get in. It's not their entire gameplan. That's why I put Zato and Ram in there, because they do the exact same things that the characters you listed do. Use zoning as a means to an end, and not their entire playstyle.
 

Karsticles

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Bison was also never in SF3.




You named MKX characters that having zoning options and not their entire gamplan. The only character that comes to mind with that playstyle is Kitana. Every character you named has zoning but it just a means to get in. It's not their entire gamplan. That's why I put Zato and Ram in there, because they do the exact same things that the characters you listed do. Use zoning as a means to an end, and not their entire playstyle.
He wasn't in 3S? My bad, then.

No, I named characters that heavily rely on ranged options and keep away to win, in contrast to your initial claim about not liking heavy 50/50 mixup games. Quan-chi doesn't use zoning to get in. Early high level play shows him as a pure keepaway character. Even if it weren't pure, the other characters I listed are not HEAVY, on the mixups, the mixups just supplement their play. There is such a clear difference, but you keep changing what we are talking about for some reason.

The entire point I made initially was that it is ridiculous to say you don't like MKX for being heavily reliant on 50/50 mixups, but you like Xrd. The latter is far more reliant on rushdown and mixups than the former. You can negate chip in Xrd - you have to rush. It is such an obvious fundamental design difference that I have to believe you are just being stubborn for the sake of stubbornness.
 

CountBlack

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Sep 29, 2011
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That is the hardest link for me to hit with Sakura, so when I saw Chris go for it ...nah breh


shit is TIGHT


without plinks? nope
 

K.Sabot

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May 7, 2009
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james on that execution soapbox. david not too pleased.

Well David has hand problems that don't allow him to compete seriously, so I understand completely if he disagrees.

Though I do like things like like 1 frame reversals and tight cancel timings, I don't like things like complicated inputs (half circle back > forward motions / quarter circle back half forward motions).
 

SixMachine

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"I know people don't like high execution... I feel like the execution is important." - James Chen on SF4

"Execution is a needless barrier for entry." - James Chen on GGXrd

These two thoughts don't make him contradict himself. He can feel it's needless but understands that execution means a lot to the game and you need it to do well to a degree.
 

Onemic

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He wasn't in 3S? My bad, then.

No, I named characters that heavily rely on ranged options and keep away to win, in contrast to your initial claim about not liking heavy 50/50 mixup games. Quan-chi doesn't use zoning to get in. Early high level play shows him as a pure keepaway character. Even if it weren't pure, the other characters I listed are not HEAVY, on the mixups, the mixups just supplement their play. There is such a clear difference, but you keep changing what we are talking about for some reason.

The entire point I made initially was that it is ridiculous to say you don't like MKX for being heavily reliant on 50/50 mixups, but you like Xrd. The latter is far more reliant on rushdown and mixups than the former. You can negate chip in Xrd - you have to rush. It is such an obvious fundamental design difference that I have to believe you are just being stubborn for the sake of stubbornness.

Which version of sub relies 100% on keepaway? Hellfire scorpion has zoning but he also has his general assortment of tools to get in, so how is he pure keepaway? Quanchi was the only person you named and who I acknowledged of being based on a zoning game. That's it. Sub zero relies on space control, and his goal is to get you in the corner so he can do pure mixups. From what we have seen, the good characters in the game are characters that are very good at mixing people up. The version of quan chi that you are talking about that is pure zoning, is not one of those characters, and if you were talking about summoner quan chi, then once again, like sub, his zoning is a means to an end for his mixup game.

And Im not sure when I ever changed what we were talking about. I said I don't think MKX is for me, you seem to be pushing it down my throat to make me like it. Sure Xrd and MKX have their similarities, but I don't think they are anywhere near as similar as you say, because otherwise every Arcsys player would be on this game. Neutral is far more important in Xrd than in MKX, which is why I say it's almost 100% based on mixups. It's not like I'm the only person who holds this opinion and likes Xrd or Marvel or any other offensive based game. I have the game,(On two platforms to boot) I've put in a good 40 or so hours in. I can enjoy watching it on stream and I don't think it's a bad game, but It's not for me.