• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

Final Fantasy VII Remake: Nomura Confirms Combat is Action Based

HeeHo

Member
Jan 14, 2009
1,454
0
0
I'm speaking from a graphical standpoint of taking FF7 to that level while holding true to turn bases combat. Which it'd look even better given the years since LO, and then give ATB a few tweaks and adjustments, and you'd have and incredible looking combat system that looks amazing but holds more true to the classic formula.

I don't know about anyone else but fuck, I envision cloud and the rest of the characters in a game that looks and feels as awesome as lost Odyssey and my game boner is off the charts.

lol yeah dude. I think a modern ATB could look flashy as hell especially with this remake. I will play and enjoy the action combat but I feel like it could truly be crazy if they tried something turn-based.
 

The Dude

Member
Jun 25, 2014
2,758
1
0
Pittsburgh
lol yeah dude. I think a modern ATB could look flashy as hell especially with this remake. I will play and enjoy the action combat but I feel like it could truly be crazy if they tried something turn-based.

Yea, I'm a gamer first always so ill be there day 1..but I am a stickler for a classic.. It's like restoring a classic car, I want to see it look as gorgeous as ever but holding true to its original design because in my mind the design is already perfect for what it is.

FF7 is an iconic rpg, saying it's combat sucks is admitting fault with it and to me it's not a fault, it's a style that can be just as enjoyable today for the games that it fits.
 

HeeHo

Member
Jan 14, 2009
1,454
0
0
Yea, I'm a gamer first always so ill be there day 1..but I am a stickler for a classic.. It's like restoring a classic car, I want to see it look as gorgeous as ever but holding true to its original design because in my mind the design is already perfect for what it is.

FF7 is an iconic rpg, saying it's combat sucks is admitting fault with it and to me it's not a fault, it's a style that can be just as enjoyable today for the games that it fits.

Yessir. Maybe the gameplay is getting a bad rap from the PS4 port having battles run at 15 fps but I find it to be very enjoyable gameplay-wise still. With all the reinventions going on with games today I'm sure the team could come up with something very cool looking, maybe even to the point where it doesn't look turn based but it actually is. That is what I was secretly hoping for.

Who knows what we'll really be getting. What if it's some crazy re-imagining like BotW and the game is amazing as is. A little hard to see that with the game being broken into chunks for release but that would be cool too.

It doesn't seem that hard for an ordinary person like me to think of things to spice up an ATB system but they are trying to appeal to a bigger audience I assume. Which is why I wished they would've made something that is like, seamlessly turn-based or something very fluid looking that it would be almost hard to tell. That way newcomers can still go "wow, cool" instead of thinking turn-based sucks.
 

Killroyskbg

Member
Jun 7, 2013
1,258
10
425
Sweden
Yea, I'm a gamer first always so ill be there day 1..but I am a stickler for a classic.. It's like restoring a classic car, I want to see it look as gorgeous as ever but holding true to its original design because in my mind the design is already perfect for what it is.

FF7 is an iconic rpg, saying it's combat sucks is admitting fault with it and to me it's not a fault, it's a style that can be just as enjoyable today for the games that it fits.


But in this case they are not restoring the car as they said at the reveal. They are building a completely new one based on one of the classics. The classic will forever be an icon and be loved for what is and was and nothing can take that away but the new one should only draw from the original and challenge it to not become a mere replica but a new icon for a new generation to love and the old.

And I don't believe anyone said the combat sucks only that they want something new.
 

ZeoVGM

Banned
Feb 2, 2006
35,291
12
1,305
https://youtu.be/YBOpZgLMZ8c

If FF7 went this route with a few tweaks to ATB, it'd of been orgasmic. Would of been fucking incredible and would of had character and separation from all the real time combat we get in other games.

It can still be just as "fucking incredible."

They did not make a bad decision here. They did not make a decision that will hurt the game.
 

The Dude

Member
Jun 25, 2014
2,758
1
0
Pittsburgh
It can still be just as "fucking incredible."

They did not make a bad decision here. They did not make a decision that will hurt the game.

The game will most likely be awesome, but combat I simply will still wish was built off the original formula. It is what it is
 

Metal B

Member
Jul 2, 2007
3,920
0
0
"I don't know how much you know about game development, but management and shareholders are a big part of it"?
I have no idea, what are you asking, but yes, they are a part of it (if the company has shareholders ). At the end of the day you still have to make money, unless you are a non-profit-Organisation, make open-source products or just doing it for fun. Those parties will try to keep this element in check, which has influnce on the project and gamedesign.

By the way here is a modern parody from a running TV-Series about the gameplay of FF7 in 2017. So that people don't forget, that the gameplay of FF7 is as remembered as the characters and story:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmcAAsw1DkU
 

The Dude

Member
Jun 25, 2014
2,758
1
0
Pittsburgh
I still say when you look at successful series people love these days with turn based combat like DQ, Etrian Odyssey, Persona etc... People would eat it up.
 

badcrumble

Member
May 12, 2006
26,793
5
0
The original's combat wasn't really much to write home about, so I'm fine with this. Materia was a cool enough ability system, but combat being exactly the same ATB from FF4, 5, and 6 (and basically having access to 50 different abilities that each 1HKO regular enemies but with different animations) ain't that exciting.

I don't have any problem with menu-driven combat (it's quite good in X, X-2, and XII, not to mention the assorted SMT games) but let's not pretend that FFVII's implementation of it is some super-special thing that can't be improved vastly upon in 2017.

And as long as there's a good diversity of potential magic/special moves out there and they don't get turned into shotguns and grenades, I think FFVII could do perfectly well as an action series. Just keep it closer to Kingdom Hearts than to FFXV in that respect, I think (FFXV is surprisingly fun to slaughter regular enemies with but the boss fights are deeply unengaging with that particular combat system).

I'd be delighted to see it moved over to the ATB Kai system from FFX-2 also, plus free movement a la FFXII, but action is fine too as long as it's done well.
 
Apr 27, 2008
9,870
4
0
Exactly, only thing that prevents me from getting to them all is time. But absolutely, I been Pc gaming since the 80s and these days we've had an awesome resurgence of games with turn-based combat. What's old feels new again in a lot of ways.
Right there with you. There are too many fantasy and tech noir CRPGs at the moment to even install them all! It's so glorious!
 

dramatis

Member
May 28, 2008
9,580
0
0
What the fuck are you talking about. I've been playing JRPGs since FF IV. Rogue Galaxy, Cross, FF X, Grandia, Star Ocean, certainly not fucking limited to PlayStation 1 FF games..

Anyway, you're proving my point more than refuting it. In fact you're not refuting it at all. You're just trying to cock block for no reason. Even worse is how relevant is Grandia II or 3 to people in this thread who think ATB is purely shit and doesn't even have a place in modern gaming? They don't even know what the fuck it is, but they might have some clue as to what FF VII gameplay is (probably not that either tbh though).

FF VII was still top tier even at the time, and still to this day. Overall it was basic, but it was also providing an intuitive and well designed method for customization of the core gameplay through the materia system. Not only was it accessible and easy to start using, it also provided fantastic customization, directly integrated into the story system, and overall the game was pretty well balanced if not mostly easy though. Plus it was the most popular JRPG by far and people loved the game. What is the need to hate on the game because Grandia III has fantastic ATB gameplay? Like fuck bro, what are you doing?

Saying Grandia is better is just going for a ridiculous cock block while at the same time basically saying "turn based has a lot to offer even above what FF VII offers" which is basically my point.

Get informed about what this discussion first. It's about advocating for turn-based gameplay, not comparing which between Grandia turn based and FF VII turned based is better.

What a ridiculously counter-intuitive post you made. Do you honestly think by being so contrarian you are achieving any good means here? You're not advocating what ATB can do if you just want to shit on FF VII using Grandia III? No man, what the fuck are you thinking. That is not advocating ATB based gameplay. That doesn't explain how traditional ATB based gameplay evolved into games like Grandia III or FF X-2 or XII or etc. or how games like Valkyrie Profile or Tactics games can exist simultaneously with similar game systems in big JRPG series.
You're playing victim, and whining about how the imagined boogeymen are out to get your game.

I did refute your point. FF7 has none of the "pinnacle of ATB", because it has long been surpassed by games within the FF franchise, and by games that employ systems similar but more advanced and just plain better. I couldn't make it any simpler for you than naming exactly all the games that have exceeded FF's gameplay in its various forms, including its ATB form.

If you can't read and you're eager to get mad, that's fine. But you're the one who has made no good points nor refuted my arguments by anything other than "who cares?!" Telling the truth that FF7's combat system has been outclassed a long time is not the equivalent of 'hating' on the system. Pointing out that turn-based games since 20 years ago have had better gameplay to offer is also the truth. If you think of telling the truth as 'hating on FF7' then yes, you are the one who is immensely confused, because you have created your own reality and don't have to face those truths.

And the truth is majority of the market wants action-oriented combat. The sales of contemporary games prove it. You're a minority in the market for wanting turn-based FF7, and that's why you won't get what you want. You can insult and whine your pants off, but the future is action-oriented combat for major titles. Ultimately your justification is built on nothing but your nostalgia and your neediness of an AAA project to cater to your personal whims.

If you wanted the FF7 in your own head, you should have went to Square Enix Japan and worked your way up to get to a place where you could decide.
 

TheEndOfItAll

Neo Member
Aug 31, 2016
244
0
0
You keep parroting that line. That sounds like a hell of a lot more justification for changing course than it does the initial design idea. The fact of the matter is that they unveiled the game as a remake, and that in gaming, REMAKE has a certain meaning.

And it, in every successful case, does not mean turning Pokemon Gold into a third person action game, or Metroid 1 into an FPS. It means preserving the game's identity and then expanding on it. Not radically altering it.

So people that wanted it to stay turn based are just as justified in wishing the remake was faithful gameplay wise as people who wanted a radical reinterpretation (for some reason?). Especially when there are a ton of big budget action RPG's out this generation, but no Turn Based game even close to the scale that FF7 was back in its day.

Why wouldn't "remake" applied to gaming be in the same vein as a movie remake? Was the remake of the Planet of the Apes film the same movie? What about The Dark Knight? Same as the original Batman? Of course not. Fundamental things changed.

What some people seem to have wanted was a remaster. Same game, same mechanics, Advent Children visuals. And that's fine, but I saw no reason to believe that was going to be the case going back to the original announcement trailer.
 

FutureProtagonist

Neo Member
Jan 16, 2016
49
0
0
If you want to play the original FF7 again, there's always the original game. Personally, I think that if the remake were just a straight copy of the original game with prettier graphics, there'd be no reason for it to exist. Maybe it'll suck, who knows. The original game is still plenty fun in that case, but maybe it's great, and now we have two really nice versions of FF7 that complement each other.