Final Fantasy X -Will- and FFX-2.5 plot discussion thread [Up2: Uh, um, errr, see OP]

Zafir

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That's really easy to explain. He doesn't like them the way he likes Yuna, and Tidus has always been kind of a clutz.
Yeah, but he was around Yuna all the damn time in Final Fantasy X.

Edit: I'll admit, if it was just a passing comment by him, it won't be as bad. He did make some "flirt" comments occasionally in X if I recall. It's hard to tell whether it is from such a small amount of information though
 
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Holy shit. I generally like modern Square Enix and love both the FF XIII series and the entirety of the Kingdom Hearts series (not just the original game), and even I'm finding these audio drama spoilers horrifyingly dumb and story-ruining. If they're accurate, I've gone from "would buy an FF X-3 day one" to "please please please S-E don't ever make this."

I can't believe just how fucking terrible this sounds. I loved XIII-2 so much from a gameplay standpoint I could put up with the "lol time travel" story, and I've generally been able to enjoy the XIII series' story and characters despite all the obvious issues. But this... this is too much. X is my favorite Final Fantasy and, taken as a whole, X and X-2 represent one of my favorite stories in gaming. What's happening here with a potential X-3 is just... it's The 3rd Birthday levels of shark-jumping, maybe even worse.

And I didn't think it could ever get worse than The 3rd Birthday.

If X-3 ends up being made according to these audio drama spoilers as they're being reported right now, I am perfectly comfortable with cutting losses and saying that the FF X story ends at X-2's perfect ending for me. :( I'll wait until the English version of the audio drama comes out before making any final judgments, though.
 

DiamondDogs

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I'm reaching for answers here but is it possible certain japanese phrases don't translate over to English? When they say blown off by a bomb, maybe that's a rough translation of something else.

I will say I do like the idea because of the actions in FFX-2, Tidus' return complicates things between the two worlds. Maybe not bringing back sin but some other threat. I think it shows consequences of love and furthers the theme that Yuna and Tidus can never be together no matter how much they try.
 

Wazzy

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That's really easy to explain. He doesn't like them the way he likes Yuna, and Tidus has always been kind of a clutz.
That's not a good explanation at all but this all depends on how literal it is. If he was just slightly flirting, it's a little silly but not extremely dumb.
 

akidnamededdy

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Ignoring everything else wrong with this (and there is a lot), the strife in Tidus and Yuna's relationship kinda reeks of the same problems with what SE did to Cloud. By the end of FF7, he's confronted his demons and come to terms with his past and who he is and is a better person for it. Fast forward to Advent Children and he's a mopey dickhead again for absolutely no reason.
 

TheSpoiler

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Tidus getting his head blown off by a bomb seems like a major tonal shift for the series
Kinda, in what happens to the characters (and the series itself, since that's not common).

Kinda not, since FFX and it's kin are already kinda morbid.

Ignoring everything else wrong with this (and there is a lot), the strife in Tidus and Yuna's relationship kinda reeks of the same problems with what SE did to Cloud. By the end of FF7, he's confronted his demons and come to terms with his past and who he is and is a better person for it. Fast forward to Advent Children and he's a mopey dickhead again for absolutely no reason.
Well, at least there's a reason for Yuna not wanting an unsent pyrefly version of her boyfriend around.
 

Christhor

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Am I the only one who's getting incredibly excited about how bad this seems? Surely I can't be, right?
 

MormaPope

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Kinda, in what happens to the characters (and the series itself, since that's not common).

Kinda not, since FFX and it's kin are already kinda morbid.



Well, at least there's a reason for Yuna not wanting an unsent pyrefly version of her boyfriend around.
I'd say it isn't too morbid, but it's really goofy. Tidus getting crushed or maimed by a monster? Makes sense, a lot more sense.
 

Beth Cyra

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Ignoring everything else wrong with this (and there is a lot), the strife in Tidus and Yuna's relationship kinda reeks of the same problems with what SE did to Cloud. By the end of FF7, he's confronted his demons and come to terms with his past and who he is and is a better person for it. Fast forward to Advent Children and he's a mopey dickhead again for absolutely no reason.
Cloud has a reason. He has cancer and his son is dying.

There is NO reason for Booby girl.
 

Narroo

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Holy shit. I generally like modern Square Enix and love both the FF XIII series and the entirety of the Kingdom Hearts series (not just the original game), and even I'm finding these audio drama spoilers horrifyingly dumb and story-ruining. If they're accurate, I've gone from "would buy an FF X-3 day one" to "please please please S-E don't ever make this."

I can't believe just how fucking terrible this sounds. I loved XIII-2 so much from a gameplay standpoint I could put up with the "lol time travel" story, and I've generally been able to enjoy the XIII series' story and characters despite all the obvious issues. But this... this is too much. X is my favorite Final Fantasy and, taken as a whole, X and X-2 represent one of my favorite stories in gaming. What's happening here with a potential X-3 is just... it's The 3rd Birthday levels of shark-jumping, maybe even worse.

And I didn't think it could ever get worse than The 3rd Birthday.

If X-3 ends up being made according to these audio drama spoilers as they're being reported right now, I am perfectly comfortable with cutting losses and saying that the FF X story ends at X-2's perfect ending for me. :( I'll wait until the English version of the audio drama comes out before making any final judgments, though.
How bad was "The 3rd Birthday?" All I know is that in the Parasite Eve world, psychic mitochondria try to "Resident Evil"-fy the world cause they hate DNA. Also, something about Brea's dead sister over-powering the main villain and resurrecting herself through her D...N...A....?
 

akidnamededdy

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Cloud has a reason. He has cancer and his son is dying.

There is NO reason for Booby girl.
It's been a while since I watched AC, but I've got the impression that Cloud was moping because he still felt bad about Aeris (which he shouldn't), and he wasn't too concerned about his Stigma (more like an inconvenience).
 

DiamondDogs

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Ignoring everything else wrong with this (and there is a lot), the strife in Tidus and Yuna's relationship kinda reeks of the same problems with what SE did to Cloud. By the end of FF7, he's confronted his demons and come to terms with his past and who he is and is a better person for it. Fast forward to Advent Children and he's a mopey dickhead again for absolutely no reason.
Wasn't the reason Cloud was sad in Advent Children because he contracted the disease and couldn't find the cure to save Denzel? That or he never forgave himself for Aerith's death until the end of the movie.

In background readings taking place before the movie I believe Tifa notices Cloud growing more and more distant.
 

Meccanical

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It's been a while since I watched AC, but I've got the impression that Cloud was moping because he still felt bad about Aeris (which he shouldn't), and he wasn't too concerned about his Stigma (more like an inconvenience).
It was conveyed better in the novel than in the movie so I can see why you felt that way.

Still didn't like what they did to him.
 

Kieli

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It's been a while since I watched AC, but I've got the impression that Cloud was moping because he still felt bad about Aeris (which he shouldn't), and he wasn't too concerned about his Stigma (more like an inconvenience).
One reason I disliked Advent Children was that it character-assassinated Cloud...

After a full RPGs worth of character development, I want to slap the person who decided it would be an awesome idea to regress him into whatever the heck he was in AC.
 

Narroo

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Cloud has a reason. He has cancer and his son is dying.

There is NO reason for Booby girl.
It was poorly done though. We're basically introduced to a Cloud that appears to have reverted to his post-Aeris death state for no apparent reason. The reason why he's mopey is mostly swept under the rug in favor of the main plot of the movie; the movie didn't need the terminal Cloud subplot and it didn't help at all. Instead, you get a few minutes spread across the movie of "cough cough, I'm totally dying guys. See, I'm grimicing" followed by "cool action!" where Cloud does a bunch of somersaults.

And god forbid you simply popped in the movie instead of looking up the "supplementary material" like "On the Way to Smile." People gave FFXIII crud about the data log? "Advent Children" forced you to go on the internet to look up a short-story you may have never heard about.
 

Beth Cyra

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It's been a while since I watched AC, but I've got the impression that Cloud was moping because he still felt bad about Aeris (which he shouldn't), and he wasn't too concerned about his Stigma (more like an inconvenience).
Complete and Way goes much deeper into this.

Cloud was fine and happy for a solid year after VII. He even adopts Denzel, and when both Denzel and himself fall victim to the Stigma, Cloud does everything he can to save the boy and still fails.

It causes him to spiral out of control. There is an entire scene added with Marlene after the Promised Land in Complete that goes over it.
 

akidnamededdy

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Wasn't the reason Cloud was sad in Advent Children because he contracted the disease and couldn't find the cure to save Denzel? That or he never forgave himself for Aerith's death until the end of the movie.

In background readings taking place before the movie I believe Tifa notices Cloud growing more and more distant.
It was conveyed better in the novel than in the movie so I can see why you felt that way.

Still didn't like what they did to him.
Complete and Way goes much deeper into this.

Cloud was fine and happy for a solid year after VII. He even adopts Denzel, and when both Denzel and himself fall victim to the Stigma, Cloud does everything he can to save the boy and still fails.

It causes him to spiral out of control. There is an entire scene added with Marlene after the Promised Land in Complete that goes over it.
Well, dip. Guess I missed some stuff. I'm willing to let SE's crummy storytelling take the blame for my lack of knowledge on this if you guys are.
 

Verendus

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Well, dip. Guess I missed some stuff. I'm willing to let SE's crummy storytelling take the blame for my lack of knowledge on this if you guys are.
It's SE's fault. They did a terrible job with Advent Children. The entire sequel was ill conceived. It makes no sense for Cloud, who has come to terms with the events of FFVII, and is moving on with his life with Tifa and the kids to regress again to feeling incredibly guilty. Granted you can justify it because Denzel has a terminal illness, and then Cloud not only fails to cure him but manages to catch it himself, but it's a terrible direction for the character. We were past the stage of a Cloud who feels incapable or burdened by his guilt, but unfortunately as is evident from SE's storytelling, they only know how to go backwards and recycle things instead of moving forward in a different direction.
 

Wazzy

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I think VII's cliffhanger left a lot open even if I felt AC was horribly done. If Cloud had completely moved on why was he speaking of going to the promised land to find Aeris in VII?

Either way this is getting a little off topic since this is about X 2.5
 

Verendus

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I disagree with this entirely.

The moment they had Cloud adopt a child and created the Stigma it was the only logical choice. Cloud came to terms with the past, but any parent would be crushed if this happened to their child.

Add into the fact Cloud does have past depression issues and he is the worlds savior it was a good plot idea. Just because he saved the world doesn't mean him and those close to him where promised happily ever afters.

I will agree the Advent base movie failed to capitalize on it.
It's terrible regardless of the execution. You don't tread old ground with characters. Insecurity, fear, all of that bullshit was done in FFVII. Just because there's a different reason for it doesn't mean it isn't the same old crap.
 

Jinko

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My brain is scarred for life, I knew I shouldn't have come in this thread :S

I am sure I could write better fan fiction than that tripe.
 

Dark_castle

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I have no serious issue with
Tidus's head blown off.

But the "flirting" part just doesn't make ANY sense, considering that in a long journey with Yuna in the original X, he never really did that sort of thing other than perhaps minor gestures.

And goddammit, now I'm kinda really interested to know what the fuck is happening in the novel. There'd better be some explanations in the full story.

(On a sidenote, I now see why Yuna is being cold to Tidus. lol)
 

Esura

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It's terrible regardless of the execution. You don't tread old ground with characters. Insecurity, fear, all of that bullshit was done in FFVII. Just because there's a different reason for it doesn't mean it isn't the same old crap.
That different reason makes all the difference.
 
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Here is what they wrote:

There's a lot of comments about how much they feel bad for Tidus, and that Yuna acts really cold towards him. There's a few saying they hate Yuna in the novel. There's apparently a lot of sexual stuff in it. There's a scan of one page in which Tidus tells Yuna if they get into battle he might lose his fighting spirit because he's distracted by how sexy she is. And apparently Tidus gets his head blown off by a bomb and dies (and only 2 days after getting resurrected), but he comes back to life again because he's made of Pyreflies, and Yuna has control over him.
Damn. There is no bottom. Where's VIII-2? Squall leaves a pregnant, still teenage, Rinoa,and finds the strength to be a father by connecting with his real father ,Laguna, while starting a deep bro-mance with Zell.
 

Verendus

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Why not? People sometimes regress when put in bad situations. You're saying that should never happen in a story just because you said so?
Because it's terrible storytelling. If you have to recycle what you're doing with characters, it means you should probably just stay away. This tends to be why a lot of authors are careful with sequels to stand alones unless they're sure they can take it in a different direction and do justice to their characters.

That different reason makes all the difference.
No, it doesn't because we're dealing with the same issues with the same character again.

But I bow out at this stage. No real interest in discussing some juvenile story any more than I have already.
 

Narroo

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Why not? People sometimes regress when put in bad situations. You're saying that should never happen in a story just because you said so?
No, because it's not fun to watch most of the time, unless you are a talented writer that has an actual reason for doing it. Advent Children was just random, poorly written, BS that didn't accomplish anything. Why have Cloud regress? Because someone head in their freshman writing class that the protagonist needs a conflict, and the wonder triplets did a poor job of being antagonists.
 

Erigu

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the "flirting" part just doesn't make ANY sense, considering that in a long journey with Yuna in the original X, he never really did that sort of thing other than perhaps minor gestures.
Ah, well, she wasn't in a swimsuit, then!
(honestly though, I think people might be overreacting just a tiny bit over what is essentially some playful banter... hardly the most problematic aspect of all this)
 

Zafir

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Ah, well, she wasn't in a swimsuit, then!
(honestly though, I think people might be overreacting just a tiny bit over what is essentially some playful banter... hardly the most problematic aspect of all this)
I think the issue is what was quoted here didn't really give any context, not even that she was in a swimsuit.
 

Wazzy

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Ah, well, she wasn't in a swimsuit, then!
(honestly though, I think people might be overreacting just a tiny bit over what is essentially some playful banter... hardly the most problematic aspect of all this)
We don't know how much is playful since a lot of comments from readers seem to act like there's a lot of sexual content. I know he apparently checks out Yuna when she's in her swimsuit but wasn't a 100% sure if it was the same part.
 

Dark_castle

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Ah, well, she wasn't in a swimsuit, then!
(honestly though, I think people might be overreacting just a tiny bit over what is essentially some playful banter... hardly the most problematic aspect of all this)
It may very well have been a playful banter, or somehow Yuna underwent plastic surgery and adopted two giant watermelons that makes any straight, prepubescent male weak in the knees, it's still stupid.

I'm smelling the trainwreck already.

Can somebody with connection to SE tell them to halt Nojima from continuing this madness please? Kagari?
 

Gooch: The Destroyer

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Here is what they wrote:

There's a lot of comments about how much they feel bad for Tidus, and that Yuna acts really cold towards him. There's a few saying they hate Yuna in the novel. There's apparently a lot of sexual stuff in it. There's a scan of one page in which Tidus tells Yuna if they get into battle he might lose his fighting spirit because he's distracted by how sexy she is. And apparently Tidus gets his head blown off by a bomb and dies (and only 2 days after getting resurrected), but he comes back to life again because he's made of Pyreflies, and Yuna has control over him.
The fuck?
 

B.K.

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I still think it's funny that they've turned Tidus into Final Fantasy's version of Kenny. I hope
he dies
in all Final Fantasy X related media from now on.
 

Erigu

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We don't know how much is playful since a lot of comments from readers seem to act like there's a lot of sexual content.
There's another plotline going on throughout the book about some new characters, and that one goes straight into NTR territory, so I guess it all added up, for those readers.
 

Ragnarsson

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FFX and FFX-2 are two of my favourite games... and all this sounds worrisome, at the very least. Once again, I find myself worried not just about the ideas themselves, but also their execution.
 

MagiusNecros

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Here is what they wrote:

There's a lot of comments about how much they feel bad for Tidus, and that Yuna acts really cold towards him. There's a few saying they hate Yuna in the novel. There's apparently a lot of sexual stuff in it. There's a scan of one page in which Tidus tells Yuna if they get into battle he might lose his fighting spirit because he's distracted by how sexy she is. And apparently Tidus gets his head blown off by a bomb and dies (and only 2 days after getting resurrected), but he comes back to life again because he's made of Pyreflies, and Yuna has control over him.
*silent laughter*
 

KoopaTheCasual

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It's been a while since I watched AC, but I've got the impression that Cloud was moping because he still felt bad about Aeris (which he shouldn't), and he wasn't too concerned about his Stigma (more like an inconvenience).
Nah, at least in AC Complete it was pretty deliberate that he was
dying of "geostigma" which basically was a Jenova disease that seemed like leprosy/cancer.

Regardless of how much sense it made it in the context of the story, it felt like an incredibly lazy plot device to make Cloud "weak" again, for the purpose of giving his character development throughout the movie, instead of actually building from his already established perspective after FF7 and going in a completely new direction.
 

MagnaderAlpha

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I think this guy probably loves it too:

Toriyama(giving his own little standing ovation to Nojima): "Nojima! My man!! I couldn't have written it better myself!!"

Some of the fans who actually feel hopeful for this(and even think all the dialog from the "Will" drama couldn't be more golden if it dripped from a goddess's teet) kinda perplex me, but I think there HAS to be fans for everything, even bad things. It's keeps that balance in nature and such. I'm pretty sure, someone out there, in the dark corners of the world, there's also a fan(or more) that whole-heartedly feels that Tommy Wiseau's The Room is a deep, emotional, seriously gripping experience(and not in the ironic, so-bad-it's-good way), as well as a cinematic masterpiece that should be up there the greats in history.
 

hipsterpants

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Seems to be that Square needs to learn not to continue finished character arcs, like they can't even come up with new interesting ideas they just repeat the same shit

Betting that XV is going to have a mega troll ending where things don't get completely resolved or something now lol