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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT| The Midas Touch

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Feb 9, 2009
37,882
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I logged in to do the seasonal. Later went to Idyllshire. I'm lost. Everything looks different.
 

Qvoth

Member
Dec 3, 2012
11,279
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i think today's the last day to get the power ranger armor and poses, you should finish that 1st
 

Hero Prinny

Member
May 28, 2014
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its 1am, i was grinding yokai legendary coins and lvling up my tank so i can be a dragoon. i 3 yokai weapons done. i don't think Ima do all of em, these coins drop far too rarely for my taste... Also i have no idea where the pace is that the lancer wants me to go to become a dragoon. its late, I'll figure it out tomorrow, im sleepy
 

Aadrian1234

Banned
Jan 10, 2015
839
0
0
Honestly, I like them lowering the difficulty in rotations a bit. Some of the micromanaging just seems so horribly executed when they also don't give us tools to check them better, or how they give us several tiny buffs instead of just one or two bigger buffs, giving us more and more things to have to pay attention to

Also, I believe a comment from the reddit thread said that current rotations made the gaps between good and very great players much larger, because of missing a buff skill or messing your rotations meant missing out on most of your damage for 30-45 seconds for one mistake. I think it would make the game more healthier by closing this gap again

Apparently the full famitsu interview basically confirms we are getting new actions in 4.0

My hotbars weep

fuck
 

Stone Ocean

Member
May 27, 2013
31,205
3
0
What's obnoxious about it.
Minor latency/tick woes (Hidden mines, Height, A7 spikes), some inconsistencies with stuff that should be predictable (WOTW trajectories), annoying RNG (Blaster, Brawler), raid wide wipes off a couple mistakes due to timing on stuff (chain pulling A6, High Wire), long fights with most of its bullshit gating 2/3rds of the encounters forcing you to keep banging your head against a wall over and over.

I mean, it might be just my experience with the tier since our melees were kinda shit which dragged our RDPS quite a bit and once you know the fights they're nothing special but the process of getting there was pure frustration.
 

ebil

Member
May 19, 2009
2,010
0
0
Paris, France
www.onionsreborn.com
Minor latency/tick woes (Hidden mines, Height, A7 spikes), some inconsistencies with stuff that should be predictable (WOTW trajectories), annoying RNG (Blaster, Brawler), raid wide wipes off a couple mistakes due to timing on stuff (chain pulling A6, High Wire), long fights with most of its bullshit gating 2/3rds of the encounters forcing you to keep banging your head against a wall over and over.

I mean, it might be just my experience with the tier since our melees were kinda shit which dragged our RDPS quite a bit and once you know the fights they're nothing special but the process of getting there was pure frustration.
You're kind of complaining about the whole game here. Overly long fights and terrible tick rate (that gave us the infamous sac strat in A4s) aren't exclusive to Midas Savage, and every raid tier has annoying stuff and inconsistencies like this.

That said, I'm of the mind that if your game is bad at handling some mechanics, you should avoid designing encounters around them. The 3s server tick on buffs and debuffs can be particularly infuriating.

I personally liked Midas Savage very much and it's one of my favourite raid tiers in this game, but it's time they re-evaluated stuff like fight length. I think I'd rather have more, shorter fights that aren't as packed with mechanics culminating in one or two longer and tougher encounters than just four 10-13 minutes fights forever.
 

Stone Ocean

Member
May 27, 2013
31,205
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I just never want to have to pass buffs by touching another player ever again. Elemental Jammer style mechanics need to phase out that shit.
 

aceface

Member
Apr 15, 2005
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1,285
I've never been a fan of the "let's make this battle difficult by stacking 4 completely unrelated battles on top of each other" school of raid design. I mean, most of the encounters in the game have it but A6S is a particularly egregious offender in the sense of the 4 parts being completely unrelated to each other. I know that's its gimmick but having to do those first 3 robots over and over again just so you can get 1 second further in Vortexer is about as annoyed as I've ever been at this kind of design. I much prefer the type of design where you introduce mechanics, keep them consistent throughout the fight, but also ramp up the difficulty by throwing in new twists throughout. T7, although everyone hates it, is actually my favorite raid they've had so far. T8 was also good like this, T10, T12, T13...I mean a lot of these had add phases but it's not T9 or A6S levels of the phases being completely unrelated to each other.

It's also annoying because you know it's the Super Mario Maker way to make the battle difficult. Their testers can beat each of the individual phases separately, and they make the raid difficult by just stacking them on top of each other. At least in SMM you can't upload the course until you clear the whole thing start to finish. They've admitted their testers can't.
 

EndcatOmega

Unconfirmed Member
Jun 25, 2012
2,947
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A6 is also practice for A8 though!

But yeah some of it is weird- my 'favourite' is t9, which is otherwise my favourite in the game; The meteor stuff is weird and completely abandoned in the second half of the fight, and when going back to farm the golems involve a lot of standing around.

Bring back Allagan Rot.

That's fine by me, I enjoyed ignoring it entirely while the ranged shouted at each other. It was relaxing!
 

Thorgal

Member
Jan 23, 2013
9,396
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0
wherever i hang my controller
Personally, I am not a fan of one guy fucks up, everyone dies mechanics.

I am fine with mechanics that will wipe you if the entire group screws up or ignore

But I dislike dying over things I have no control over or one player screws up and fights over. Even if the screw up was not the player fault but due to lag.

If a player screws up I am fine it will kill him as punishment but the rest of the group should be given a chance to recover from it.

One player dies or screws up mechanic != Rip fights over gg for everyone else.
 

ebil

Member
May 19, 2009
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This applies to every role if the death occurs at a bad time, and it's very possible to recover even from a healer death. I've solo healed things that I didn't think would be possible when my co-healer got DCd during Savage fights.
 

Village

Member
Jan 21, 2013
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This applies to every role if the death occurs at a bad time, and it's very possible to recover even from a healer death. I've solo healed things that I didn't think would be possible when my co-healer got DCd during Savage fights.

especially if the dps or in some cases tanks, know a res move.
 

ebil

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May 19, 2009
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That mechanic is so easy though! It doesn't even have a damage tick like everything that has Nisi written on it.
The mechanic being hard or not is not what was being discussed. Stone Ocean (and myself earlier) was talking about the inconsistency of server ticks and passing debuffs around (or debuffs applying or being removed with a server tick delay in the case of A7s' spikes), to which I jokingly said "bring back Allagan Rot", because it was extremely inconsistent to pass around at launch.

Why does it always have to go back to the perceived difficulty or lack thereof when people are complaining about mechanics being annoying to deal with from a mechanical, coding standpoint?
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
Oct 19, 2012
8,813
1
495
The mechanic being hard or not is not what was being discussed. Stone Ocean (and myself earlier) was talking about the inconsistency of server ticks and passing debuffs around (or debuffs applying or being removed with a server tick delay in the case of A7s' spikes), to which I jokingly said "bring back Allagan Rot", because it was extremely inconsistent to pass around at launch.

Why does it always have to go back to the perceived difficulty or lack thereof when people are complaining about mechanics being annoying to deal with from a mechanical, coding standpoint?

Well that's probably because it hasn't been years since passing Rot was affected by server ticks.
So instead of saying "bring back Rot" you meant "bring back launch server ticks" and... oh no, why would you want that.
 

ebil

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May 19, 2009
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Well that's probably because it hasn't been years since passing Rot was affected by server ticks.
So instead of saying "bring back Rot" you meant "bring back launch server ticks" and... oh no, why would you want that.
I was talking about inconsistencies. I shouldn't have mentioned Allagan Rot because it's not tied to server ticks like the spikes are and you're right to correct me there. You're still missing the point that it's not about your (or anyone's really) perceived difficulty of mechanics but about inconsistency in dealing with them due to stuff applying at weird times, server ticks, latency and that sort of issues.

It's like noone ever complained about Digititis, Brand of Purgatory and Drainage tethers feeling inconsistent and "not right" (edit - before you correct me: I know you need to deal with them by standing still until it passes, but most players feel there is a disconnect here and I don't blame them).

It's perfectly fine to think that it's fair to deal with the way servers work and that it takes skill to play around this and you can sometimes use it to your advantage (getting more ticks out of buffs, sac strat in A4s), but for a lot of players it's frustrating and unfair and makes progression difficult.
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
Oct 19, 2012
8,813
1
495
I was talking about inconsistencies. I shouldn't have mentioned Allagan Rot because it's not tied to server ticks like the spikes are and you're right to correct me there. You're still missing the point that it's not about your (or anyone's really) perceived difficulty of mechanics but about inconsistency in dealing with them due to stuff applying at weird times, server ticks, latency and that sort of issues.

It's like noone ever complained about Digititis, Brand of Purgatory and Drainage tethers feeling inconsistent and "not right" (edit - before you correct me: I know you need to deal with them by standing still until it passes, but most players feel there is a disconnect here and I don't blame them).

It's perfectly fine to think that it's fair to deal with the way servers work and that it takes skill to play around this and you can sometimes use it to your advantage (getting more ticks out of buffs, sac strat in A4s), but for a lot of players it's frustrating and unfair and makes progression difficult.

Okay I see what you mean now (although I don't remember Brand/Arm being difficult to pass, but hey, if people had problems with it, they had problems with it).
I think it's one of those things that can't be completely fixed because getting rid of such mechanics isn't really good and just making servers run better isn't an option either (you probably know that despite minimal GCD being 1.5s the actual tickrate for ability checks is 2s which led to a recent BLM exploit).

Well we're getting inventory space upgrade in 4.0, maybe they'll do something about buff passing too. It's actually kinda inconsistent in its own right - the tethers in T8 and A3 are super unwieldy, but Tempest Wing in T13 always passes instantly. Eh.
 

ebil

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May 19, 2009
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the tethers in T8 and A3 are super unwieldy, but Tempest Wing in T13 always passes instantly. Eh.
That's exactly what bothers me about the whole situation. They have the ability to do that kind of stuff flow smoothly, yet it's sometimes off in a major way. Why can't all tethers just react like Tempest Wing or Sephirot Ex's tethers?

We've had two wipes in A7s yesterday (a fight that we've had on farm for months) because our WHM would die from the last Sizzlespark during Merry-go-round while being on the platform because of the tickrate and the game considering he still had the spike debuff. We can all agree that it's an easy and straightforward mechanic, but it's not something that should happen.

Maybe 4.0 will make Tethers great again.
 

NCR Redslayer

NeoGAF's Vegeta
Apr 18, 2014
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You know the worst part about sephirot fight is when his arena shockwave aoe hits and it does more than half your life and the healer doesnt cast an aoe heal fast enough and your parties DPS all just die.
 

NCR Redslayer

NeoGAF's Vegeta
Apr 18, 2014
12,600
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Yeah well, that's being bad and it's not something that simplified rotations or buff management will change.
Also dying once is the worst since your health drops by like 5k. So you probably wont survive the phase change. Someday ill beat ex seph.
 

Shahed

Member
Feb 14, 2012
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Also dying once is the worst since your health drops by like 5k. So you probably wont survive the phase change. Someday ill beat ex seph.
If you're Weak the Healers should be using Stoneskin/Galvanise there. Heck a PLD could join in with Divine Veil, or have better DPS on adds to lower damage. It's just a case of maybe bad healers not topping people off to stop dying the first time, and then not shielding properly the next

Having said that after a couple Echo Buffs it shouldn't make a difference anyway. Something else is probably going wrong.
 

Valonquar

Member
Jun 27, 2013
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After an extended 6 month break from the game, I've finally caught back up to the ilvl cap, finished relic/anima to 240, gotten everything out of PotD, yokai, summer event. Now I am debating another hiatus, or slamming my head against the wall for the different colored bird mounts.
 

Aadrian1234

Banned
Jan 10, 2015
839
0
0
I've been watching and hearing how mechanics work in Alexander's raid tiers, and the fights look so boring. 8-10 minute fights, only to mess up on a mechanic that requires extremely strict memorization of placements and where to go, and wipe the entire group and start from Point A again. It being that strict just doesn't look appealing.

Sure, I could do it if I bothered to find a raid group. But why. There's no incentive other than raising my ego. Maybe some people find extremely tight difficulties fun but i'm agreeing more and more with Yoshi on easier raids being more healthy for the playerbase and getting people to play them

---

Rising Event

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/pr/blog/001582.html

And 14-hour anniversary broadcast starting 8 PM PDT tonight

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/topics/detail/61c5ab5683441c9a9978befdba7efa7b8e37618c
 

Frumix

Suffering From Success
Oct 19, 2012
8,813
1
495
I've been watching and hearing how mechanics work in Alexander's raid tiers, and the fights look so boring. 8-10 minute fights, only to mess up on a mechanic that requires extremely strict memorization of placements and where to go, and wipe the entire group and start from Point A again. It being that strict just doesn't look appealing.

Sure, I could do it if I bothered to find a raid group. But why. There's no incentive other than raising my ego. Maybe some people find extremely tight difficulties fun but i'm agreeing more and more with Yoshi on easier raids being more healthy for the playerbase and getting people to play them

If there's no punishment for failure there's no incentive to do better.
 

Valor

Member
Jun 12, 2014
2,454
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0
Minor latency/tick woes (Hidden mines, Height, A7 spikes), some inconsistencies with stuff that should be predictable (WOTW trajectories), annoying RNG (Blaster, Brawler), raid wide wipes off a couple mistakes due to timing on stuff (chain pulling A6, High Wire), long fights with most of its bullshit gating 2/3rds of the encounters forcing you to keep banging your head against a wall over and over.

I mean, it might be just my experience with the tier since our melees were kinda shit which dragged our RDPS quite a bit and once you know the fights they're nothing special but the process of getting there was pure frustration.
A lot of the things you call annoyance here are basically people doing mechanics slowly or in a sub optimal way. So much of these fights have been, and always have been, minimizing the amount that rng can fuck you sideways. If you are getting spiked or height errored because of server ticks then you need to do the mechanics faster. There is so much time for height it's frankly embarrassing if you get height errored outside of very small fringe cases.

Maybe it's NA ping privlidge or whatever excuse people want to find, but sometimes when you're barely scraping by on doing mechanics 80% correctly, you're gonna get fucked over 20% of the time because you cut it so close. For example, if your healing is just hitting the platform as sizzle is going out, you're doomed to getting fucked if you're just a second too slow. The remedy is 9/10 times going to be "do the mechanic better" rather than "blehblehbleh latency"

Sure, I could do it if I bothered to find a raid group. But why. There's no incentive other than raising my ego. Maybe some people find extremely tight difficulties fun but i'm agreeing more and more with Yoshi on easier raids being more healthy for the playerbase and getting people to play them
The incentive is having fun. Maybe some people enjoy the challenge that they bring? Not everything is about loot.
 

ebil

Member
May 19, 2009
2,010
0
0
Paris, France
www.onionsreborn.com
I've been watching and hearing how mechanics work in Alexander's raid tiers, and the fights look so boring. 8-10 minute fights, only to mess up on a mechanic that requires extremely strict memorization of placements and where to go, and wipe the entire group and start from Point A again. It being that strict just doesn't look appealing.

Sure, I could do it if I bothered to find a raid group. But why. There's no incentive other than raising my ego. Maybe some people find extremely tight difficulties fun but i'm agreeing more and more with Yoshi on easier raids being more healthy for the playerbase and getting people to play them
It's fine that you don't want to raid, it's not for everyone and people raid for different reasons (ego, cool gear and mounts, getting out of their comfort zone, having fun overcoming challenges with friends).

Very few raiders on GAF were saying they were unhappy with Coil difficulty and challenge and the ones who wanted harder, insurmountable challenges got brickwalled by A3s.

Even though I don't want every fight to be 13 minutes long, the last thing I would say about A8s is that it's a boring fight. It's crammed with cool mechanics that build up on what you've learned in A6, it's challenging and it's a lot of fun to me. It's punishing (and sometimes too much maybe) but it's fair.

For example, if your healing is just hitting the platform as sizzle is going out, you're doomed to getting fucked if you're just a second too slow
I've died to this particular mechanic when I was standing on the platform at like 80% of the cast bar while learning and way in the back already. There's literally nothing to do but pop sprint and run when the first sizzle goes out, there's very little that you can do better here. It's a very easy mechanic.

Edit: oh, both my WHM and I have also taken normal damage from a sizzle while standing on the spikes on purpose to wipe the group. Maybe we were doing the mechanic too well!
 

Guess Who

Banned
Oct 21, 2012
10,408
1
0
I've been watching and hearing how mechanics work in Alexander's raid tiers, and the fights look so boring. 8-10 minute fights, only to mess up on a mechanic that requires extremely strict memorization of placements and where to go, and wipe the entire group and start from Point A again. It being that strict just doesn't look appealing.

Sure, I could do it if I bothered to find a raid group. But why. There's no incentive other than raising my ego. Maybe some people find extremely tight difficulties fun but i'm agreeing more and more with Yoshi on easier raids being more healthy for the playerbase and getting people to play them.

Some of the most fun I've ever had in this game was dying to T9 for weeks with my raid group till we finally took it down. There's nothing wrong with some content being super challenging and exclusive to high-level players, and hell, Alexander isn't even that exclusive, since there's much simpler versions of every fight for more casual players. And anyway, the first few fights of Gordias and Midas Savage aren't even that hard in practice.

The problem FFXIV is having isn't that Alex Savage is too hard, it's that there's little endgame content in between "very easy" (Alex Normal) and "very hard" (Alex Savage). They used to even have three tiers of primals, for instance (normal/hard/extreme) before they switched to two, which was a mistake.
 
Mar 3, 2011
13,473
0
840
Titan Extreme took me a week or so to beat.

When I did i was extremely satisfied that I had finally done it.

That wouldn't have happened if it was piss easy to beat. I haven't done any of this savage raiding or whatever but do not underestimate the value of challenge.
 

Aadrian1234

Banned
Jan 10, 2015
839
0
0
Some of the most fun I've ever had in this game was dying to T9 for weeks with my raid group till we finally took it down. There's nothing wrong with some content being super challenging and exclusive to high-level players, and hell, Alexander isn't even that exclusive, since there's much simpler versions of every fight for more casual players. And anyway, the first few fights of Gordias and Midas Savage aren't even that hard in practice.

The problem FFXIV is having isn't that Alex Savage is too hard, it's that there's little endgame content in between "very easy" (Alex Normal) and "very hard" (Alex Savage). They used to even have three tiers of primals, for instance (normal/hard/extreme) before they switched to two, which was a mistake.

I dunno, this could be it too. I want harder content but Alex Savage just seems like nothing but instant kill and wipe mechanics, while the entire fight lasts 10+ minutes. When I think of difficulty, I don't think of instant death, I still want a chance at recovering

Bleh, maybe I'll just abandon hope of raiding completely. Seems like this is just an MMO thing
 

Stone Ocean

Member
May 27, 2013
31,205
3
0
A lot of the things you call annoyance here are basically people doing mechanics slowly or in a sub optimal way. So much of these fights have been, and always have been, minimizing the amount that rng can fuck you sideways. If you are getting spiked or height errored because of server ticks then you need to do the mechanics faster. There is so much time for height it's frankly embarrassing if you get height errored outside of very small fringe cases.

Maybe it's NA ping privlidge or whatever excuse people want to find, but sometimes when you're barely scraping by on doing mechanics 80% correctly, you're gonna get fucked over 20% of the time because you cut it so close. For example, if your healing is just hitting the platform as sizzle is going out, you're doomed to getting fucked if you're just a second too slow. The remedy is 9/10 times going to be "do the mechanic better" rather than "blehblehbleh latency"
Like I said, it might be just my group being bad - which most of them frankly were - but "do the mechanics earlier" is a pretty "well duh" comment. It's not like the fights aren't doable - far from it -, that doesn't mean its good design to make mechanics based around optimal ping with finnicky checks. Not everyone gets to play at sub 50 ms.
 

IvorB

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Apr 26, 2013
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https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comments/4ze6uq/teaser_of_the_ffxiv_3_year_anniversary_21_page/




If they dumb down the jobs I will be very upset and will probably quit playing for good. It's a stupid idea. One of the best things about this game is the way the jobs play. Seriously, is their idea for everything just to nerf it?
 

Mudo

Member
Feb 8, 2006
831
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45
Columbia, TN
Hey everyone. I haven't played FF14 in the last year. I bought the expansion, but my highest level character is only in their 30s. Was thinking about coming back - has a lot changed? is it great nowadays. I loved it back when I played but stopped for...I don't know why lol. Also, is it possible to solo a lot of the game? I have used group finder and done dungeons and I think they were required (to unlock a job maybe? I forget) - I just don't want to get into a position where I'm screwed because I can't get through it solo. Of course if I was ever to get to raiding yeah I know, not solo but that's fine. I mean getting most things done by yourself if *needed*. Thanks!