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Final Fantasy XIV: Heavensward |OT3| Keniki Gauge Cost: 20,000

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Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
Is there a good recap of everything in this live letter? Totally spaced that this was going on today.

New Primal in a circular battle arena
Swimming exists
Calm down about WHM lol
Dropped a dungeon for new content
<gap where I zoned out and started watching baby elephant gifs>
Normal mode Omega two weeks after release
Savage + New Aquapolis + Tomestones four weeks after release
Fat chocobo plush

Someone else might be able to fill in the blanks.
 
Is there a good recap of everything in this live letter? Totally spaced that this was going on today.

- YoshiP continues to torture us with his Lala
- "Hey have you seen this very short loading screen for diving? All modern MMO are seamless, but this is really fast!!"
- "Don't panic and keep WHM, maybe it will work well once we launch the thing!"
- Some useless questions about ERP servers
- Vague answers to Glamour thing
- Only 1 dungeon on odd(?) patches, because we have too many dungeons that barely got any use after every patch. Other content to fill
- Genji is the Omega raid gear, eastern influenced
- 2 weapon drops for raid
- No preliminary patch notes (yet)
- 2 weeks for normal omega, 2 more weeks for savage version alongside new tomestomes version. New Aquapolis version too.
 

Tomat

Wanna hear a good joke? Waste your time helping me! LOL!
Stormblood.

His point is that their patch and content cycle has no changed much at all since 2.0. Sure he hasn't played the new content but he can have a pretty good idea of what to expect if they maintain the current flow.
 

Luminaire

Member
His point is that their patch and content cycle has no changed much at all since 2.0. Sure he hasn't played the new content but he can have a pretty good idea of what to expect if they maintain the current flow.

Isn't shifting resources from a dungeon to something *new* a change? We've yet to actually see what the 4.X patches will bring so I don't think we can compare them to 2.X and 3.X until they actually happen.
 

iammeiam

Member
They need to actually change the formula before they get credit. We lost a dungeon in HW for Verminion and Hunts in an Instance which was rebooted to FATES In An Instance. Verminion was ballsy but confusing; Diadem was heavy recycling. The new content in odd patches could be awesome, but it could also end up being Diadem or Egi Glamor and spending half the expansion inaccessible while the rehashed content cycle marches on.

Actually it sounds to me like you just don't like the game and likely need to move on. He isn't going to rewrite the game from scratch again, he isn't going to rock the boat and just implement all new systems and remove all old systems that people have come to expect, if he is creatively dead then so are essentially all MMO's in which case I ask what exactly are you expecting?

Expansions to feel like they meaningfully grow the game instead of copy and paste the playerbase from one area to another? Like, the game is what it is, and we all more or less accept it on some level, but that Yoshida had one trick in ARR and it's progressively lesss impressive every time it gets moved to a new setting is a thing. There are parts of the game I really like, but the repetition for the sake of repetition isn't admirable and SB does less than HW did to change things up.

Like, this is abnormal stangnation for an MMO as successful as XIV is supposed to be. I get being risk averse in the days following 1.0, but there's nothing wrong with pointing out the direction of the game as a game often feels unfocused and aimless.
 

Wagram

Member
Actually it sounds to me like you just don't like the game and likely need to move on. He isn't going to rewrite the game from scratch again, he isn't going to rock the boat and just implement all new systems and remove all old systems that people have come to expect, if he is creatively dead then so are essentially all MMO's in which case I ask what exactly are you expecting?

Is it so much to ask for a breath of new life into the game? Why are people so willing to redo the same weekly tasks they've done since 2013 (tasks that are constantly being ragged on in game, every single day by the way)? I hold Final Fantasy to a high standard, which may be why I am passionate and frustrated with Yoshida.

I expect more, and he's thoroughly disappointing as a developer. Everything is "we're looking into it, or we're too cheap to buy more server space." It's frustrating. Anyways I need to take a break. Getting worked up over video games and all.
 

Qvoth

Member
http://imgur.com/a/s79md
bunch of new gear screenshots, very blurry though

i assume these are the genji omega gears
not really a fan of these tbh


bonus
 
Considering they've been hit or miss on their non-dungeon content, I think is for the better this, really slow I agree, shift of new type of content. Rather than shaking up things greatly and discovering that it actually sucks.

If they manage to not make PvP a shitfest like it was until now (and they took the necessary steps at least), new Aquopolis and new PoTD + new type of content, should give enough variation compared to 2.0.
 

scy

Member
There's space that exists to criticize an unchanging direction in game design while also still enjoying the game. So far Stormblood seems to pan out as Heavenward part 2 which was already ARR part 2; if this was a large patch (or series of patches), it wouldn't feel out of place which may be a better indicator of the problem point here perhaps?

I'm hopeful that the 'new content' they talk about is exciting and different but they tend to tread the same paths in the new things they add. And I say that as someone who considers Palace and Aquapolis to be probably the best additions of Heavensward.

Isn't shifting resources from a dungeon to something *new* a change? We've yet to actually see what the 4.X patches will bring so I don't think we can compare them to 2.X and 3.X until they actually happen.

I mean, I want to agree? It was framed as something I'm totally going to enjoy conceptually so I'm hoping it hits the mark. I'll say I'm actually disappointed it was in part of "We got rid of X to try Y!" but the biggest disappointment is that it's also not a launch thing? If nothing else, their attempts to add new content (e.g., Diadem, Diadem 2.0) tend to hit in spots where they're tuned awkwardly from a reward perspective when they could fit better as 'filler' content elsewhere. Aquapolis and (eventually) PotD got to fit gaps a bit better and even be reused a bit more often as well so hopefully that works back in their favor here on out.

So, as per usual I guess, it gets a pretty big "We'll see" attached to it. For what it's worth, I hope to be proven wrong, I really do? It just feels like being stuck in that situation way more than we should for the game is all.
 
Is it so much to ask for a breath of new life into the game? Why are people so willing to redo the same weekly tasks they've done since 2013 (tasks that are constantly being ragged on in game, every single day by the way)? I hold Final Fantasy to a high standard, which may be why I am passionate and frustrated with Yoshida.

It's fair to hold Final Fantasy to a high standard, but at the same time Square-Enix's developers have been generally unable to meet a high standard in the franchise for years upon years. This is just my personal experience, of course, but XIV Heavensward (not ARR) and World of Final Fantasy are the only Final Fantasy games that have met my standards for the franchise since... I guess, IX? But I'm sure I value different things than other people do.
 

iammeiam

Member

HW did the whole normal mode raid thing, and made massive shifts in how gearing was handled. For as much as I spent my time trying to minimize the amount I have to run normal, it was a meaningful addition to the casual playerbase and established a system they can in theory use to integrate the raid more deeply into the core story since it's accessible to all.

Normal raiding--and later the crafted gear at equivalent iLevel-- is a pretty big change in the treadmill overall since prior tier gear was instantly obsolete when the next tier hit.

SB as pitched is reusing that and not touching the treadmill at all.

There's also them doing the thing I absolutely hate, and going "HEY CASUALS we're taking away your content to appease the hardcore." Which they figured out worked when everyone gave them a free pass for Gordias because they blamed it on the hardcore.
 

Allard

Member
There's space that exists to criticize an unchanging direction in game design while also still enjoying the game. So far Stormblood seems to pan out as Heavenward part 2 which was already ARR part 2; if this was a large patch (or series of patches), it wouldn't feel out of place which may be a better indicator of the problem point here perhaps?

I'm hopeful that the 'new content' they talk about is exciting and different but they tend to tread the same paths in the new things they add. And I say that as someone who considers Palace and Aquapolis to be probably the best additions of Heavensward.



I mean, I want to agree? It was framed as something I'm totally going to enjoy conceptually so I'm hoping it hits the mark. I'll say I'm actually disappointed it was in part of "We got rid of X to try Y!" but the biggest disappointment is that it's also not a launch thing? If nothing else, their attempts to add new content (e.g., Diadem, Diadem 2.0) tend to hit in spots where they're tuned awkwardly from a reward perspective when they could fit better as 'filler' content elsewhere.

So, as per usual I guess, it gets a pretty big "We'll see" attached to it. For what it's worth, I hope to be proven wrong, I really do? It just feels like being stuck in that situation way more than we should for the game is all.

Yeah the biggest takeaway I can see that they are reluctant to push new expansion systems at launch, they want to settle the game into its end game and not add much new into the early end game. To that end I do understand people finding a lack of 'vision' but I have become fine with it as long as they are willing to test and try new things as it goes on, because if those things are successful they will suddenly become the thing that starts in the next expansion etc. Also we really don't know anything about the flow of the game leading to end game, we expect certain things but we don't actually know it till we play. I still find the first 4 weeks of HW to be some of my favorite in the game because of all the new zones, all the content that opened up for my jobs to work on, crafting and gathering getting completely restarted. I expect I will enjoy it a similar way with this expansion, but not everyone cares about that and only wants to focus on end game systems not changing up dramatically, I understand but respectfully disagree (in my opinion).
 

Crosseyes

Banned
Man I can't wait for Friday.

Even though I didn't play Heavensward constantly as much as ARR because of overtuned raids busting any fun there and real life obligations, I still remember how amazing it was playing through the story and discovering all of the new things of Heavensward. It brings so much extra fun to everything all over again. Even the simplest things like gathering, "Holy shit this bush has fuckin' NEW MUSHROOMS."

Can't let the naysayers get you down with how things will be balanced 3 months from now!
 

Stuart444

Member
HW did the whole normal mode raid thing, and made massive shifts in how gearing was handled. For as much as I spent my time trying to minimize the amount I have to run normal, it was a meaningful addition to the casual playerbase and established a system they can in theory use to integrate the raid more deeply into the core story since it's accessible to all.

Normal raiding--and later the crafted gear at equivalent iLevel-- is a pretty big change in the treadmill overall since prior tier gear was instantly obsolete when the next tier hit.

SB as pitched is reusing that and not touching the treadmill at all.

There's also them doing the thing I absolutely hate, and going "HEY CASUALS we're taking away your content to appease the hardcore." Which they figured out worked when everyone gave them a free pass for Gordias because they blamed it on the hardcore.

I'd still consider the revamping of the jobs to be bigger. Not to mention gear wise, raiders now get a guaranteed weapon per week for one of the jobs in the raid.

And with many of the things added in HW, it's only natural to build on that which they are doing (or will be doing) with stuff like the crafter/gatherer scrips, Zhloe/Kloe, etc.

Not every expansion needs to touch the gear treadmill that much as long as there is multiple ways to gear up/get tomestones to do so (pvp, Aquapolis, raids, roulettes, Kloe, etc) which is all most people seem to care about. I think that's a pretty healthy variety.

Maybe they will change the gear treadmill in 5.0 as even more jobs get added, who knows? But I still think for an expansion, SB is doing more than HW with the job changes, role actions/no longer having to level up secondary jobs at all if you don't want.

Just my opinion on it.
 

Luminaire

Member
I'd still consider the revamping of the jobs to be bigger. Not to mention gear wise, raiders now get a guaranteed weapon per week for one of the jobs in the raid.

And with many of the things added in HW, it's only natural to build on that which they are doing (or will be doing) with stuff like the crafter/gatherer scrips, Zhloe/Kloe, etc.

Not every expansion needs to touch the gear treadmill that much as long as there is multiple ways to gear up/get tomestones to do so (pvp, Aquapolis, raids, roulettes, Kloe, etc) which is all most people seem to care about. I think that's a pretty healthy variety.

Maybe they will change the gear treadmill in 5.0 as even more jobs get added, who knows? But I still think for an expansion, SB is doing more than HW with the job changes, role actions/no longer having to level up secondary jobs at all if you don't want.

Just my opinion on it.

Plus the PVP changes as well as new PVP modes that aren't the same old shit we've been beat over the head with seem to be a nice change, as well as giving EXP that encourages more people to try it out.
 

iammeiam

Member
I'd still consider the revamping of the jobs to be bigger.

This is a change to existing systems, not a change to engagement with the game, though. Like, if your objection was to the combat system, it's an upgrade. If you liked the combat system, it's nothing/a downgrade. I'm not saying they did nothing with the expansion, but rebooting how combat works doesn't expand the game, it just copy-pastes what was already there.
Not to mention gear wise, raiders now get a guaranteed weapon per week for one of the jobs in the raid.

This is a nice QoL change but meaningless in terms of engagement with the game. You only see the weapon after you've beaten everything, and it's obsolete by next tier. Also, you can page it out. QoL, not expansion.

And with many of the things added in HW, it's only natural to build on that which they are doing (or will be doing) with stuff like the crafter/gatherer scrips, Zhloe/Kloe, etc.

Not every expansion needs to touch the gear treadmill that much as long as there is multiple ways to gear up/get tomestones to do so (pvp, Aquapolis, raids, roulettes, Kloe, etc) which is all most people seem to care about. I think that's a pretty healthy variety.

Maybe they will change the gear treadmill in 5.0 as even more jobs get added, who knows? But I still think for an expansion, SB is doing more than HW with the job changes, role actions/no longer having to level up secondary jobs at all if you don't want.

Just my opinion on it.

I mean, part of the issue is that HW didn't just not grow the game in terms of content, it didn't seem to do much to really raise the active population. Repeating what they've been doing works as long as they're content with who they have; stuff like jump potions are attempts to reach a wider MMO audience, and in the wider audience Expansion means more.
 

scy

Member
To that end I do understand people finding a lack of 'vision' but I have become fine with it as long as they are willing to test and try new things as it goes on, because if those things are successful they will suddenly become the thing that starts in the next expansion etc.

It's this that helps make it feel more like an iterative series of patches rather than an expansion? It's possibly a semantics quibble but by and large I don't expect them to actually do much with an expansion so much as add the foundation of their next series of patches; the game will over time add new things to mess with but the expansion itself isn't the one doing the bulk of the weightlifting in this department of expanding the game.

Basically, it kind of sucks to enter an expansion to be met with "4.1 isn't that far away" when it comes to "so what's new?"

Also we really don't know anything about the flow of the game leading to end game, we expect certain things but we don't actually know it till we play. I still find the first 4 weeks of HW to be some of my favorite in the game because of all the new zones, all the content that opened up for my jobs to work on, crafting and gathering getting completely restarted. I expect I will enjoy it a similar way with this expansion, but not everyone cares about that and only wants to focus on end game systems not changing up dramatically, I understand but respectfully disagree (in my opinion).

To each their own on that, really. The leveling process is more a means to an end for me, for lack of a better way to put it? So there's a lot to be said about getting to fully appreciate new content because it's new to see, experience, etc. but it's also the basic expectation of an expansion in the first place. There will be plenty to do and I'll be trying to race through as much as I can (#whypacemyself) because that's where my enjoyment is, I just kind of wish we'd see more signs of new things earlier in an expansion.

Edit: Because re-reading it makes it sound super dismissive, yeah, there's a certain level of just what I enjoy, what you enjoy, what someone else enjoys, etc. vary enough to have minimal common ground. So there will be parts I'm most likely taking for granted that to someone else is the literal defining part of the experience to them. It's part of why I'm not exactly thrilled at the whole "cut X for adding Y" they're doing since my enjoyment shouldn't come at the expense of others.

I'd still consider the revamping of the jobs to be bigger. Not to mention gear wise, raiders now get a guaranteed weapon per week for one of the jobs in the raid.

I mean, I'm going to enjoy the guaranteed weapon drop change (no more zero usable weapons in 8 weeks!) but I'm not exactly sure I'd mark that down as a selling point or new addition, per se, on the same level of creating normal mode raid. The job revamping is a thing; some of the jobs aren't changing all that much and others are changing about as much as ARR -> HW did for them. Just now with an HUD element. So it's 'more' but, as mentioned above, it's also kind of par for the course in terms of expansion expectations?

The point here is that entering Stormblood we're expecting a lot of the same gameplay loops with QoL adjustments throughout (X dungeons, Y primals, Z raid, etc.) Maybe we will get hit with some big surprises but placing expectations on that seems a little ... well, hopeful. Better iterations of things coming out of Heavensward but not so much a brand new Stormblood thing yet, just the next entry of each piece we have.
 

duckroll

Member
This is a change to existing systems, not a change to engagement with the game, though. Like, if your objection was to the combat system, it's an upgrade. If you liked the combat system, it's nothing/a downgrade. I'm not saying they did nothing with the expansion, but rebooting how combat works doesn't expand the game, it just copy-pastes what was already there.

This statement makes no sense to me unless you think of systems in terms of how they are either [good] or [bad] and that the details of the mechanics don't matter. Combat -is- engagement with the game. A combat system comprises of multiple components and these components have their own pros and cons, and affect how different players engage the game. The job revamp is huge because it changes the way people have to approach their classes and changes rotations and skill synergy in both small and big ways.

I doubt there are many people who like -every- single thing about the combat system in the game as it is. So it's hardly nothing or a downgrade even for people who like it. I play a (bad) dragoon and I like the combat system in XIV quite a bit, but I'm really excited about the changes they are making to Blood of the Dragon in particular. I feel it will make the flow of combat more dynamic while helping to reduce the panic I get in the heat of battle from not being sure what part of my rotation I should use next because there are too many branches based on the timing of the buff which isn't easily trackable when engaged in avoiding AOEs.

Revising how combat works for players and making it clearer and easier for players to understand the additional depth in the combat system will also allow them to design encounters and boss mechanics which take advantage of that increase in player performance in theory. Handwaving it as not expanding the game is really weird.
 

Stuart444

Member
This is a change to existing systems, not a change to engagement with the game, though. Like, if your objection was to the combat system, it's an upgrade. If you liked the combat system, it's nothing/a downgrade. I'm not saying they did nothing with the expansion, but rebooting how combat works doesn't expand the game, it just copy-pastes what was already there.

I'd say changing how gear is handled is change to existing systems if we're going down that route.

I don't think we're going to agree here anyway. You know what you want/expect out of the game and so do I. And that's fine. If you aren't happy, maybe later in 4.x or 5.0 will make you happy in regards to what you want in terms of changes,

I'm perfectly satisfied and that's okay too. :)
 

iammeiam

Member
Revising how combat works for players and making it clearer and easier for players to understand the additional depth in the combat system will also allow them to design encounters and boss mechanics which take advantage of that increase in player performance in theory. Handwaving it as not expanding the game is really weird.

It's literally not expanding the game--it's not additive, it's replacing. If they subtracted a job every time they added a job, we wouldn't say they added jobs, we'd say they replaced. If they patched out a race when they added au'ra, we wouldn't say they expanded the race selection.

It's an improvement, it's not an addition. It's not that it's without validity, and it's not that there won't be a learning curve, but it's not more. You don't have the old and the new. You don't have more options now, you have different ones. It can impact enjoyment of performing tasks, but it's not in and of itself a goal. You don't log in to beat the striking dummy, you use the combat rotations to engage with a thing.

Like, I played bard in ARR. They didn't 'Expand' bard in HW, and they aren't expanding mch now. They're changing.
 

LordKasual

Banned
Expansions to feel like they meaningfully grow the game instead of copy and paste the playerbase from one area to another? Like, the game is what it is, and we all more or less accept it on some level, but that Yoshida had one trick in ARR and it's progressively lesss impressive every time it gets moved to a new setting is a thing. There are parts of the game I really like, but the repetition for the sake of repetition isn't admirable and SB does less than HW did to change things up.

bro

the battle system hasnt changed this much since 1.0 > 2.0

you honestly just need to move on, if Stormblood's changes didn't excite you then literally nothing will. ESPECIALLY if you played Bard since 2.0, jesus christ.

again, just let it go and move on. If you're complaining about the fundamentals of this game on the eve of an expansion like this already then nothing will satisfy you, don't waste your money.
 

duckroll

Member
It's literally not expanding the game--it's not additive, it's replacing. If they subtracted a job every time they added a job, we wouldn't say they added jobs, we'd say they replaced. If they patched out a race when they added au'ra, we wouldn't say they expanded the race selection.

It's an improvement, it's not an addition. It's not that it's without validity, and it's not that there won't be a learning curve, but it's not more. You don't have the old and the new. You don't have more options now, you have different ones. It can impact enjoyment of performing tasks, but it's not in and of itself a goal. You don't log in to beat the striking dummy, you use the combat rotations to engage with a thing.

Like, I played bard in ARR. They didn't 'Expand' bard in HW, and they aren't expanding mch now. They're changing.

I don't see it that way at all. I see changes and improvements to the foundation as a prerequisite to making actual additions more interesting and meaningful. For example, while you may claim that it's not additive that they are changing how Blood of the Dragon works but rather a "replacement", it is very clear to me looking at the skill list that several of the 61-70 skills they are ADDING to the game for the dragoon would simply not be feasible without this change in the foundation. It would simply make the rotation even more complex and confusing, and completely unmanageable for many players, including myself. By tackling the root of some issues with the fundamental design and bothering to address those problems, they not just improve the game but allow themselves to make more meaningful actual additions to the game. It goes hand in hand.
 

scy

Member
Revising how combat works for players and making it clearer and easier for players to understand the additional depth in the combat system will also allow them to design encounters and boss mechanics which take advantage of that increase in player performance in theory. Handwaving it as not expanding the game is really weird.

Assuming that it also means a rise in technical levels of encounters is also sort of weird, no? Like, you cover it with 'in theory' there but all we really know right now is they're aiming to adjust how the jobs operate. We'll see (...) how some of that pans out but I'm actually not entirely sold on most of them being more streamlined / less punishing variants of their old rotations as of yet.

By and large, entering a new expansion it sort of is basic expectation that how we play our jobs will change. Maybe that is handwaving some of it as additions but I don't think there's been any MMO I've played where I didn't have the basic assumption of new locales and changes to how I play; so 'expand' is what we think of as truly new additions coming rather than adjusting the old. So for the Heavensward case, they added Normal mode outright? That's a new thing to engage with as opposed to changes to how certain jobs operate or the next version of X thing.

bro

the battle system hasnt changed this much since 1.0 > 2.0

you honestly just need to move on, if Stormblood's changes didn't excite you then literally nothing will. ESPECIALLY if you played Bard since 2.0, jesus christ.

again, just let it go and move on. If you're complaining about the fundamentals of this game on the eve of an expansion like this already then nothing will satisfy you, don't waste your money.

I feel like all of this is entirely missing the point of every single post and point brought up.
 

iammeiam

Member
bro

the battle system hasnt changed this much since 1.0 > 2.0

you honestly just need to move on, if Stormblood's changes didn't excite you then literally nothing will. ESPECIALLY if you played Bard since 2.0, jesus christ.

again, just let it go and move on. If you're complaining about the fundamentals of this game on the eve of an expansion like this already then nothing will satisfy you, don't waste your money.

I mean

I've accepted the game is what it is? I'm not protesting that the content changes exist, I'm protesting that combat changes alongside a level cap increase do not a massive expansion make. I dropped bard in 3.0 and swapped to MCH, my point was more them nuking and repaving my job isn't new, unexpected, or a giant shock. It's what MMOs do at one point or another, and I'm going to go ahead and laugh at the 1.0 -> 2.0 comparison. A lot of jobs, from what we've seen, have refined. Two jobs were nuked and paved because Ranged Physical DPS Is Impossible To Make Work, which whatever. But this is _not_ in line with what you see looking at 1.0 to 2.0.

I honestly don't get why criticism of XIV always turns into "GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE". I dink around in my little corner of the universe, self-quarantined from ruining people's fun most of the time, and peek my head out to discuss larger things when there are larger things to discuss. That XIV is in a perpetual cycle of the same content isn't really new or news, and that combat changes are natural improvements in an expansion but generally don't count as actual content isn't some weird fringe thing.

I'm not campaigning to get YoshiP fired. I'm not showing up to disrupt anybody's happy go lucky hug box of positivity by staying out of the official forums and general hype, I'm literally talking about the game as an MMO and where it may be seen to fall short.

Edit: the irony is that I'm literally typing these responses out in between wipes in the part of the game I enjoy and hope to see more of; like, I'm not dead inside where the game is concerned, I'm just a realist. There's room for improvement and stepping outside the cycle.
 
I mean

I've accepted the game is what it is? I'm not protesting that the content changes exist, I'm protesting that combat changes alongside a level cap increase do not a massive expansion make. I dropped bard in 3.0 and swapped to MCH, my point was more them nuking and repaving my job isn't new, unexpected, or a giant shock. It's what MMOs do at one point or another, and I'm going to go ahead and laugh at the 1.0 -> 2.0 comparison. A lot of jobs, from what we've seen, have refined. Two jobs were nuked and paved because Ranged Physical DPS Is Impossible To Make Work, which whatever. But this is _not_

I honestly don't get why criticism of XIV always turns into "GO PLAY SOMETHING ELSE". I dink around in my little corner of the universe, self-quarantined from ruining people's fun most of the time, and peek my head out to discuss larger things when there are larger things to discuss. That XIV is in a perpetual cycle of the same content isn't really new or news, and that combat changes are natural improvements in an expansion but generally don't count as actual content isn't some weird fringe thing.

I'm not campaigning to get YoshiP fired. I'm not showing up to disrupt anybody's happy go lucky hug box, I'm literally talking about the game as an MMO and where it may be seen to fall short.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that you don't think XIV has enough content, and that Stormblood does not look to be adding enough new content to be worthy of being called an MMO expansion. You think that the XIV team needs to add more content, more often, in more areas, to justify playing the game regularly. Is that a correct summation of your stance?
 

duckroll

Member
I feel the main disconnect here is that maybe some of us play the game to focus on different things. Like, I'm not really a MMO person. I've played other MMOs before, but I don't really care that much about MMOs. I'm playing FFXIV because it's a really satisfying FF experience as a long time fan of the franchise, and it's telling FFs stories and has a FF world with dungeons, bosses, characters, and cutscenes which I have craved for a long time now but didn't get out of the single player releases. I love it. I'm excited for the expansion because it's more of that, and the story is going to interesting places. I'm excited to ride my FFV mount, have a FFV minion, fight FFV bosses, and take Ala Mhigo back from the empire. Everything about Stormblood looks exciting. Return to Ivalice is going to be amazing. The new villain looks badass. Is that not expanding on content?
 

scy

Member
I feel the main disconnect here is that maybe some of us play the game to focus on different things. Like, I'm not really a MMO person. I've played other MMOs before, but I don't really care that much about MMOs. I'm playing FFXIV because it's a really satisfying FF experience as a long time fan of the franchise, and it's telling FFs stories and has a FF world with dungeons, bosses, characters, and cutscenes which I have craved for a long time now but didn't get out of the single player releases. I love it. I'm excited for the expansion because it's more of that, and the story is going to interesting places. I'm excited to ride my FFV mount, have a FFV minion, fight FFV bosses, and take Ala Mhigo back from the empire. Everything about Stormblood looks exciting. Return to Ivalice is going to be amazing. The new villain looks badass. Is that not expanding on content?

I feel like that's largely the disconnect here? The expansion is adding more of the basic parts of it. The next steps of the story, the next series of leveling content, etc. Most of my curiosity for an expansion is in what ways is it adding to the game as a whole to change or alter something you do with the time in the game. So I do sit here and acknowledge it's adding a hefty amount of story and bringing more world to play in and more content to experience. But how much of the game itself is also growing so much as the list of things in the game growing (e.g., dungeons 50-57, primal 16-18, raid 3, etc.).

If this was a single-player game, I think I'd be more inclined with your viewpoint? What's this DLC adding to the game to experience, where is it extending the game. For me with MMOs, it's more about how is the game evolving or growing as a whole rather than attaching a new shade of experience. Stripping out the FF or MMO of it, if all I'm really chasing is the list of new content to experience, I'd consume it and move on to a new game and chase those experiences? I stay in an MMO because of the whole package and I'd like to see how the game grows larger / wider rather than just longer.

Edit: If I want to use bullet point terms for this, I'd say I'd rather an expansion to be a sequel rather than DLC if that makes any sense?

EDIT 2: I will take the time to say I'm really looking forward to Magitek Facility and will probably eternally go "Number 128 is purple not grey which facility are we even in", even if I know they'll have like zero real correlation to their encounters in VI just like Calcabrina really didn't.
 

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Well I'm 60 and done with 3.0! Certainly won't be SB ready come friday, but doing all the 3.x quests as Redmage should be fun!

Also I laughed at one of the 3.0 end cinematic teasers

THAT WIZARD CAME FROM THE MOON!
 

iammeiam

Member
If I understand you correctly, you're saying that you don't think XIV has enough content, and that Stormblood does not look to be adding enough new content to be worthy of being called an MMO expansion. You think that the XIV team needs to add more content, more often, in more areas, to justify playing the game regularly. Is that a correct summation of your stance?

I think they can do more. I think there is a level of stagnation in the current cycle, and I think they would benefit to step outside it. Expansions in XIV feel more like DLC packs for a single-player JRPG, and when people approach XIV as an MMO it is not out of line to point out that it feels relatively stagnant. I don't think you can point to combat changes as shaking up the formula, when the combat changes exist to let you keep doing the formula.

I'm not demanding anything, I'm just defending the viewpoint that they can do more, and that it's not an indefensible or unreasonable position they have. It's fantastic that they have a player base that they serve that is content; they also occasionally make overtures towards or indications of interest towards maintaining other parts of their community. Heavensward did not meaningfully grow the game concurrent active subscriber base by any measure we've been able to find; people rotate in, people rotate out. But what the expansions have yet to meaningfully do is add to the game if you're sick of the treadmill; they changed up how the treadmill works for casual players in HW, which was a step. But it's still the same treadmill, and that's what it would be nice to see addressed.

I don't want to take anything from people, and I loathe that the 4.1 difficult content is being pitched as something to cater to players who want what I want, at the expense of others. I just want to hold that disappointment in viewpoint is not valueless.
 
If I understand you correctly, you're saying that you don't think XIV has enough content, and that Stormblood does not look to be adding enough new content to be worthy of being called an MMO expansion. You think that the XIV team needs to add more content, more often, in more areas, to justify playing the game regularly. Is that a correct summation of your stance?

Game needs new types of content instead of just the massive dungeon roulette grind.

Stuff like Aquapolis, Palace of the Dead. New stuff that isn't corridor dungeon # 51 to be added to the latest EX roulette.

The expansion launching will have a bunch of dungeons and trials, but no new types of content, just dungeons and trials.

This new expansion will have you doing the same you thing you did when you reached the level cap in Heavensward.

Thankfully they have recognized this at least partially and seem to have some new stuff in the pipeline.

Hopefully decent PvP
New Aquapolis and Palace of the Dead
Eureka
Blitzball
lol

A lot of that is unfortunately not going to be playable for months (whenever 4.1 comes out I guess).

Hopefully them cutting down on the number of new dungeons will hopefully lead to some new stuff that ends up being more enjoyable than dungeons as a level cap activity.
 

SOLDIER

Member
So I ordered the CE digital PC version and redeemed the early access code.

I then ordered the PS4 regular edition on Best Buy, which e-mailed me an early access code. I tried redeeming that one on the same page, but it keeps saying it's invalid.

I was hoping to play early access on both PC and PS4 at the same time. Am I only allowed to redeem one early access code for one platform?

Anyone?
 
Not if you're in the Immortal Flames.

The Immortal Flames seem to win most frequently in my experience on Ultros.

Game needs new types of content instead of just the massive dungeon roulette grind.

Stuff like Aquapolis, Palace of the Dead. New stuff that isn't corridor dungeon # 51 to be added to the latest EX roulette.

The expansion launching will have a bunch of dungeons and trials, but no new types of content, just dungeons and trials.

This new expansion will have you doing the same you thing you did when you reached the level cap in Heavensward.

Thankfully they have recognized this at least partially and seem to have some new stuff in the pipeline.

Hopefully decent PvP
New Aquapolis and Palace of the Dead
Eureka
Blitzball
lol

A lot of that is unfortunately not going to be playable for months (whenever 4.1 comes out I guess).

Hopefully them cutting down on the number of new dungeons will hopefully lead to some new stuff that ends up being more enjoyable than dungeons as a level cap activity.

Probably part of the disconnect is that I deliberately vary up my playtime in XIV (and stagger it with other games) so as to not get burnt out on any single activity. Since I hit level 60, I've only done 2-3 dungeons a week on average rather than multiple dungeons every day. If you're trying to grind tomestones to cap constantly, I can imagine it's easy to burn out.
 
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