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Finally got my PS5 and started playing Demon’s Souls Remake…they butchered it

borborygmus

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A recurring pattern in games and in life is that many people's standards too easily erode over time, if they even had them in the first place. They downplay things that were loved by chalking them up to nostalgia because for various reasons they need for the new, shiny thing to be the best in every way and are unable to look at it critically, whether it be for the sake of console wars, "rewarding the developers' hard work," or trying too hard to avoid being that guy who "fears change" (a very effective meme, much like the expression "making excuses" seems to allow people to avoid having to hear someone out and short-circuits the discussion). These people gaslight themselves.

Others were never even actually invested in the original thing and just showed up because it was in, and now have their chance at claiming the thing for themselves by aligning with the now-more-popular remake, which is not too unlike the demands for an easy mode in that it's an attempt at passing oneself off as the target audience, replacing the original "elitists." They didn't get the easy mode, but at least they stuck it to the purists with the other changes introduced by the developers (and they wish things were even more different).

I am aware of how pretentious this sounds, but I truly believe this. But we find ourselves more and more frequently asking "why are things so bad these days?" and, well, what I described above is why. This sounds super-serious but it isn't. It's only moderately serious insofar as I wish there was less consumerist behavior (with people unable to cope with a big series that doesn't cater to their consumerist proclivities even existing) and fewer weaselly people trying to signal to the developers that they should cater to them instead of the original audience.

Maybe if we stopped pretending the outstanding past contributions in this space were just nostalgia bro (I cringe every time I read the expression "rose-tinted glasses") we would stand a better chance to reach those heights again.
 
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I'm gonna go there. If you don't want to "play the game" of getting a PS5, I get it. But my entire friend group each got one in April by watching a three minute YouTube video and following a PS5 restock alert tracker on Twitter. Yes, it is more work than adding one to your cart on Amazon, but it really doesn't take more than a week or two to snag one if you know what you're doing.

thats how i got one but it was still really annoying to constantly keep track of stock. anyone who is currently working will have a hard time getting one. you need to be free from 9am-1pm. thats usually the times when stock is available. im unemployed and unwell so i had the free time to keep track of stock.
 

rofif

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One might say the soundtrack had a ... Demon's Soul.

Eh?




EH!?!?!?!
martial arts oh no you didnt GIF by Shaw Brothers
 

Nickolaidas

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Get your ideas straight. Am I twelve, or am I old ?
I am going to go with 'senile old man with the mental capacity of a twelve-year old'. Because you know ... old people get sillier the more they age.
Do you scream in life to convince people ? How old are you ? Six ?
It's called sarcasm.
The only post here that reeks of insecurity is yours, so of course I was going to answer you with your own argument. I am not the one here trying to convince myself that the 570$ I put in my plastic box and game were well invested.
Considering the fact I have yet to own a PS5, your insult slammed its dick into a wall and ejaculated out of a misplaced sense of achievement. Meanwhile, I sit across with arms folded and chuckling at the spectacle.
However, you have to accept that not everyone thinks your way. I played Demon's Souls back when the game was largely unknown (Asia version) and bought the game again for the US and European releases. It was one of my favorite games on PS3, and I preferred it to the Dark Souls games that came after.
Holy shit! Me too! We should become friends! The only difference is that I'm not going to let nostalgia cloud my judgment and consider it superior in every way (while it's basically the opposite). I loved RE1 (the original) and played it more than every single RE game, yet I don't delude myself in thinking it's superior to the Gamecube Remake. Because guess what? I can still love the original but at the same time, realize it's a piece of crap next to the vastly superior remake.
This remake destroyed all the charm it had. And even if I was the only one to think this, it would still be my opinion because I can't care less being part of a big group of people who think like me or not. This topic was created by someone who seem to share the sentiment, but as I said, it was already obvious what was happening with the game before it was released.
Oh for fuck's sake ... this is the kind of drama queen-ing I roll my eyes at. If you somehow trained your brain into believing every single character model or texture had pixie cum dust all over it and created a magical and unique rainbow of a spectacle that couldn't be replicated in any way, shape or form, that's on you. The graphics on the PS3 version are dull as fuck in today's standards. Miniscule detail and it's only because of Miyazaki's artistic genius that they managed to make the game look godlike back then. Because the art department did an amazing job in creating more with less. So when the PS5 remake allowed Bluepoint to take what was great in Demon's Souls and EXPAND on it, it creates a lifelike environment which made PS fanboys challenge PC owners to find them a game as artistically gorgeous as PS5 Demon's Souls.

But woe is me, the Vanguard no longer looks like a PS2 monster with carrots sticking out of its mouth, so the charm is all gone - it's ruined, caput. Now it looks like a demon who escaped from Doom Eternal, so the charm is gone.

Did any of you genuises ever bothered to ask yourselves if the PS3 vanguard was 100% how Miyazaki wanted to make him, and what did he have to sacrifice artistically because of hardware limitations? How Miyazaki would have the Vanguard designed if he made the game TODAY for the first time? Did it ever occurred to you that this perfect, flawless gem full of charm was actually full of visual compromises because Miyazaki didn't have the hardware (or a dev team competent enough) to do what he envisioned to do? Did you ever stop yourselves to think that what you consider perfection is Miyazaki's shameful admittance he didn't make Demon's Souls look like he wanted it to look?
The soundtrack is the worst offender. The musics are barely recognizable, and they don't convey anything anymore. They all became your generic epic set-pieces that you forget the second they end. The originals were part of a whole, bigger thing. If you can't even realize this listening to the tracks you posted yourself, I surely can't help.
My opinion considering the soundtracks is that the Remake's is more generic, but a hundred times more fitting. Most boss themes in Demon's Souls are annoyingly low-tone and calm and do not convey any stress at all. Which is obvious that Miyazaki had the same opinion, which is why from Dark Souls and onward, the boss themes are almost always stressful, high pitched and filled with violins and 'AAAAH AAAAAAAAH ...' chorus.

This whole conversation reminds me of a guy I knew who dated a mediocre looking girl, but liked doing her from behind because she had a mole above her ass cheeks and he considered it 'cute', then complained about his next girlfriend being prettier overall but didn't have the cute mole. The 'charm' was gone.
 

Hawke502

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Storm King OST in the remake beats all the old OST just by itself.
We did't have this level of OST and composition since FF XV.
Nah, it starts out interesting but then devolves into the same generic "epic" soundtrack that can be found in almost every other AAA game or movie, with the drums to get you pumped up and the big orchestra.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

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Wow @ that remade Nexus music. Missing the point by a space mile. Same for Old Monk.



I like the remade soundtrack better. I own the original soundtrack in CD and is pretty much like the worst soundtrack to listen outside of the game. Thers like 2 decent tracks there that are good to listen outside of the game. I know the original sound track added a more morbid and heavy feel to the game, but i quite like the "epicness" they added to the remade tracks.
That don’t mean it’s bad or it doesn’t fit the game. Silent Hill’s OSTs are mostly useless stand-alone. It’s the sound design - how the music is integrated in the game - that makes Silent Hill a tremendous achievement in game sound. The original Demon’s Souls OST fit the game like a glove. This DS3-style new OST with all its ooohs and aaaaahs and more oooohs and percussions and shit is literally tone-deaf.
 

Hawke502

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That don’t mean it’s bad or it doesn’t fit the game. Silent Hill’s OSTs are mostly useless stand-alone. It’s the sound design - how the music is integrated in the game - that makes Silent Hill a tremendous achievement in game sound. The original Demon’s Souls OST fit the game like a glove. This DS3-style new OST with all its ooohs and aaaaahs and more oooohs and percussions and shit is literally tone-deaf.
Yes, exactly. One example of a game that does this quite well is Wasteland 3, they have their own version of Washed in the Blood of the Lamb which is good and all but the way its integrated in the game and the meaning it conveys to this specific encounter is quite unique.
 
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tommib

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I am going to go with 'senile old man with the mental capacity of a twelve-year old'. Because you know ... old people get sillier the more they age.

It's called sarcasm.

Considering the fact I have yet to own a PS5, your insult slammed its dick into a wall and ejaculated out of a misplaced sense of achievement. Meanwhile, I sit across with arms folded and chuckling at the spectacle.

Holy shit! Me too! We should become friends! The only difference is that I'm not going to let nostalgia cloud my judgment and consider it superior in every way (while it's basically the opposite). I loved RE1 (the original) and played it more than every single RE game, yet I don't delude myself in thinking it's superior to the Gamecube Remake. Because guess what? I can still love the original but at the same time, realize it's a piece of crap next to the vastly superior remake.

Oh for fuck's sake ... this is the kind of drama queen-ing I roll my eyes at. If you somehow trained your brain into believing every single character model or texture had pixie cum dust all over it and created a magical and unique rainbow of a spectacle that couldn't be replicated in any way, shape or form, that's on you. The graphics on the PS3 version are dull as fuck in today's standards. Miniscule detail and it's only because of Miyazaki's artistic genius that they managed to make the game look godlike back then. Because the art department did an amazing job in creating more with less. So when the PS5 remake allowed Bluepoint to take what was great in Demon's Souls and EXPAND on it, it creates a lifelike environment which made PS fanboys challenge PC owners to find them a game as artistically gorgeous as PS5 Demon's Souls.

But woe is me, the Vanguard no longer looks like a PS2 monster with carrots sticking out of its mouth, so the charm is all gone - it's ruined, caput. Now it looks like a demon who escaped from Doom Eternal, so the charm is gone.

Did any of you genuises ever bothered to ask yourselves if the PS3 vanguard was 100% how Miyazaki wanted to make him, and what did he have to sacrifice artistically because of hardware limitations? How Miyazaki would have the Vanguard designed if he made the game TODAY for the first time? Did it ever occurred to you that this perfect, flawless gem full of charm was actually full of visual compromises because Miyazaki didn't have the hardware (or a dev team competent enough) to do what he envisioned to do? Did you ever stop yourselves to think that what you consider perfection is Miyazaki's shameful admittance he didn't make Demon's Souls look like he wanted it to look?

My opinion considering the soundtracks is that the Remake's is more generic, but a hundred times more fitting. Most boss themes in Demon's Souls are annoyingly low-tone and calm and do not convey any stress at all. Which is obvious that Miyazaki had the same opinion, which is why from Dark Souls and onward, the boss themes are almost always stressful, high pitched and filled with violins and 'AAAAH AAAAAAAAH ...' chorus.

This whole conversation reminds me of a guy I knew who dated a mediocre looking girl, but liked doing her from behind because she had a mole above her ass cheeks and he considered it 'cute', then complained about his next girlfriend being prettier overall but didn't have the cute mole. The 'charm' was gone.
How do we get from recomposed soundtracks to ass moles? Surely this is some new milestone at GAF?
 

22:22

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I recently had to turn the music of in DS III during the Ancient Wyvern battle because it's blaring loud epic sound was annoying me while navigating to that plunge spot. Just to much..


Awesome area visually <3
 
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Hawke502

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I recently had to turn the music of in DS III during the Ancient Wyvern battle because it's blaring loud epic sound was annoying me while navigating to that plunge spot. Just to much..

I will neve understand people that say that they listen to these type of tracks in their spare time, its all so generic it blends into the same thing in my mind and turns into background noise if i try to listen to it outside the game. Pascal's Village theme on the other hand will always stay with me.
 

22:22

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I will neve understand people that say that they listen to these type of tracks in their spare time, its all so generic it blends into the same thing in my mind and turns into background noise if i try to listen to it outside the game. Pascal's Village theme on the other hand will always stay with me.

Yeah I'm definitely not a big fan of that type of music but that's me. With that said it's not like I can't appreciate it when implemented well. I like my subtlety.

This one was pretty nice, very eerie

 
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Hawke502

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Yeah I'm definitely not a big fan of that type of music but that's me. With that said it's not like I can't appreciate it when implemented well. I like my subtlety.

This one was pretty nice, very eerie

I agree with everything you just said, and the soloist with this creepy line throughout the whole track really makes this example work.
 
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Markio128

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At no point during my game time have I thought anything negative about the music. Maybe I’m not so sensitive to such things. However, I am sensitive to getting hammered by the maneater and his mate. Twats.
 
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I will neve understand people that say that they listen to these type of tracks in their spare time, its all so generic it blends into the same thing in my mind and turns into background noise if i try to listen to it outside the game. Pascal's Village theme on the other hand will always stay with me.

At the risk of sounding like a weeb, this is always something that I've admired Japanese game composers for. People remember the names Kondo, Uematsu, and Yamaoka for a reason. There was a thread awhile ago talking about how Koji Kondo was "an uninspired hack," for taking influence from popular music from his time/area and incorporating it into his OST's, whereas I think it's brilliant, and part of the timeless appeal of these songs. They're catchy, they have hooks, clear sections of songs.

They're actual "songs," in the purest definition, they weren't trying to make Zimmer/Williams scores to their respective games like it was film. It was back in the day when games were more than interactive films. The music to an area or fight was almost every bit as important as the gameplay features or the appearance of the level. Some may disagree with me here, but comparing Demon's Souls or Uncharted, or something contemporary with lots of strings and orchestra to older schools of gaming music, and it's simply forgettable.

I could hum you basically the entirety of OoT or FFVII's OST, in generally the right order of appearance, because the music was intertwined with the very experience that it's impossible for me to recall one without the other.
 
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Tripolygon

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This entire OP makes me think of those guest judges in the Japanese version of Iron Chef who are like "You've masterfully captured the spirit and essence of a mother feeding her child, the warmth and sense of belonging inherent in a familial relationship with every swirl around the tongue. It's simply divine!" and the key ingredient was like duck taint.
Fuck me this is chef’s kiss.
10/10
will read again.
 

cireza

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Meanwhile, I sit across with arms folded and chuckling at the spectacle.
While typing a 10 miles long message because of how triggered you are. Your aggressiveness and vulgarity speak for themselves.
The only difference is that I'm not going to let nostalgia cloud my judgment and consider it superior in every way
But you are still going to enforce your opinion on others, explaining with your subtle and well chosen words how their opinion cannot be right for whatever stupid reason you came up with.
My opinion considering the soundtracks is that the Remake's is more generic
Oh... So you actually agree for the most part :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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Honey Bunny

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I didn't like any of the changes I still play the PS3 version and recommend anyone to do the same if at all possible the remake is filled with nonsense changes

If this game wasn't a 'flagship' of the console "warz" it would have been torn apart

People who think this sort of thing doesn't matter are my mortal enemies. I will destroy them.
 

Epic Sax CEO

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I didn't like any of the changes I still play the PS3 version and recommend anyone to do the same if at all possible the remake is filled with nonsense changes

If this game wasn't a 'flagship' of the console "warz" it would have been torn apart


God forbid environmental storytelling and mood on the remake of the game that made the two things famous and span an infinite line of copycats, right? Jim new direction touch can do no wrong.
 
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Hawke502

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At the risk of sounding like a weeb, this is always something that I've admired Japanese game composers for. People remember the names Kondo, Uematsu, and Yamaoka for a reason. There was a thread awhile ago talking about how Koji Kondo was "an uninspired hack," for taking influence from popular music from his time/area and incorporating it into his OST's, whereas I think it's brilliant, and part of the timeless appeal of these songs. They're catchy, they have hooks, clear sections of songs.

They're actual "songs," in the purest definition, they weren't trying to make Zimmer/Williams scores to their respective games like it was film. It was back in the day when games were more than interactive films. The music to an area or fight was almost every bit as important as the gameplay features or the appearance of the level. Some may disagree with me here, but comparing Demon's Souls or Uncharted, or something contemporary with lots of strings and orchestra to older schools of gaming music, and it's simply forgettable.

I could hum you basically the entirety of OoT or FFVII's OST, in generally the right order of appearance, because the music was intertwined with the very experience that it's impossible for me to recall one without the other.
For all the praise people give Hans Zimmer, i think he started a horrible trend, the structure of his songs are not even that impressive tbh
 
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MajinSweet4

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I also love how they randomly gave Penetrator Bestowal Ninja straight out of Sekiro. I love Sekiro but wtf is this garbage? Penetrators sword had a visual effect unique to him, now he has blood magic like Maria or Wolf?
 

dano1

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Listened to both. I prefer the remake.
You could definitely work at CNN with that headline of yours…
 
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For all the praise people give Hans Zimmer, i think he started a horrible trend, the structure of his songs are not even that impressive tbh

And I'm not trying to be a detractor, here, either. It requires a lot of skill and compositional talent to score anything, but by definition that's what kind of makes the divide all the more apparent. Masashi Hamauzu is a fun example, because he's dipped his toes into both styles. The soundtrack to Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII, while well constructed musically, was completely forgettable to me. Dark ambience, brass percussion, strings. Very by the book. Whereas his work with Final Fantasy VII: Remake was pretty much universally praised, original tracks included.

Scores are meant to underline a scene. Add emphasis to certain emotional moments, or create a sort of white noise backdrop to denote the ambience of the scene. Trent Reznor, one of my favorite musicians has become a pretty prolific composer for films of late. While his work in films is definitely skilled, and definitely reflects his musical personality, chances are 10 to 1 that you'll find me blaring Pretty Hate Machine before The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo.

The World 1-1 theme of Super Mario Brothers doesn't just act like set dressing, in a way its a single for the game. A mascot. It promotes the work its a part of. Same with the main theme of The Legend of Zelda. The Bombing Mission or One Winged Angel in FFVII. The save room theme in Resident Evil.
 
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MiguelItUp

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It's completely subjective.

But the remake is better in every way IMO. Especially the soundtrack. Which I absolutely love.

So much so that I definitely purchased that limited Mondo vinyl that was pressed.

Even going back to hear the original vs the new one, the remake is vastly better IMO.

I think the one opinion I've kept hearing and reading revolved around folks preferring the OG Maiden Astraeas Theme. But they didn't say the game was "ruined" or the overall OST was "garbage". They just thought the original song captured that experience better. Which, sure, to each their own.

Such a great game. Ugh.
 

Nickolaidas

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Oh... So you actually agree for the most part :messenger_tears_of_joy:
Of course I do. I kept saying that the Remake's soundtrack is better because it is more fitting. Don't care if it's less unique. The majority of the original's music is a boring fest that causes you to fall asleep.
 
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Nah, it starts out interesting but then devolves into the same generic "epic" soundtrack that can be found in almost every other AAA game or movie, with the drums to get you pumped up and the big orchestra.

Oh no

the track has actual production values and sounds good, it's now generic.
 

Hawke502

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Oh no

the track has actual production values and sounds good, it's now generic.
Oh no


I never said that. And what do you mean by the tracking having "actual production values"? Pascal's Village has a really good production and doesn't sound generic. The example that 22:22 22:22 posted above probably has a high production value and dousn't sound generic like the piece i was quoting.
 

Hawke502

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Yeah, can't help but get 'I wAs A DeMoN's SoUlS fAn BeFoRe It WaS cOoL' vibes from those people. Like the guy telling me he played the original Demon's Souls back when it was only in Asia, as if that actually means something.
I was never a Demon's Souls fan, didn't play the first game and its the first time i heard the soundtrack, i just happen to have opinions on music.
 
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Nickolaidas

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I was never a Demon's Souls fan, didn't play the first game and its the first time i heard the soundtrack, i just happen to have opinions on music.
The problem is that in video games (among other things) there is context - most of the time.

'Is the music I am listening appropriate to what is happening on my screen?'

'Is that music theme amplifying the emotions I am having at that moment, or does it scramble them?'

'Does this music theme make me want to keep doing what I'm doing?'

Which Demon's Souls version is the most likely to answer those questions with a yes?
 

MrA

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For all the praise people give Hans Zimmer, i think he started a horrible trend, the structure of his songs are not even that impressive tbh
especially considering Hans Zimmer's habit of taking Enio Marconi's work, crossing off his name, simplifying it, adding noise, and calling it an original work I don't get the praise for the guy at all
 
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Hawke502

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The problem is that in video games (among other things) there is context - most of the time.

'Is the music I am listening appropriate to what is happening on my screen?'

'Is that music theme amplifying the emotions I am having at that moment, or does it scramble them?'

'Does this music theme make me want to keep doing what I'm doing?'

Which Demon's Souls version is the most likely to answer those questions with a yes?
From what i heard and what little i know of Demon's Souls and what i said here, the original one. It suits the game's setting much better.
 

Hawke502

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especially considering Hans Zimmer's habit of taking Enio Marconi's work, crossing off his name, simplifying it, adding noise, and calling it an original work I don't get the praise for the guy at all
For real, now almost every blockbuster has the same soundtrack because of this, they are so similar they all blend into the same thing, as i said before.
 
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skit_data

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Quite the constructive criticism.

I like the remake version as well, its an impressive piece of music but it certainly doesn’t convey the same feeling.

I’m not one of the ”yeah i played this shit back in 2009”, I played the original Demon’s Souls last of all From Softwares recent output, just before the remake was announced. Less complex music needs stronger melodies to even notice and I think the remake version, while technically more impressive and interesting is overwhelming and the main melody gets lost in the much more dynamic structure of the song.
 
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Kokoloko85

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I think they done a great job. I do miss the character create music and the beginning, but most the new music I like more, including Maiden Astraea.
Dark Souls and Bloodborne had better soundtracks altogether
 

Three

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Yeah, they messed up with the music, especially Astraea's theme. Seems the composer didn't actually play the game and don't know what he's doing
It blatantly says in the making of video that they used the original score to create the new one. Play the game maybe not but they used the original music to create the new.
 

Three

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I personally loved the hell out of the Remake, best game on PS5 so far, and the music was really well done. That said don't see the harm in providing a classic music option for those who prefer the original.
I'm not sure if it was licensed music. If it was that would not be easy to do.