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Fitness |OT3| BroScience, Protein Dysentery, XXL Calf Implants, and Squat Rack Hogs

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Skilotonn

xbot xbot xbot xbot xbot
Excellent thread as usual guys - been back into working out semi-seriously for the past two months, and I'm now dedicating myself to the foods in this thread - I eat healthy for the most part, don't drink sodas at all for years, but now I plan to cut the boxed fruit juices and stick to milk and water/fresh fruits.

Also plan to up my protein intake, I only take in about 70g of protein if I think about what I eat, so thanks to your suggestions I plan to up it by quite a bit, because I see the results, just not as much as I want, plus I'm trying to get rid of a tiny gut I got going now, which I'm positive I got from the amount of brown bread I ate daily for months.

Edit: that protein intake didn't include the protein shake.
 

Gilby

Member
Star Power said:
Also, in terms of nutrition - I'm totally broke and can't really afford to buy health stuff. What are cheap options/ must-have meals?

Thanks in advance!

Best protein source in the world is also one of the cheapest: eggs.
I'm pretty strapped for cash as well, so I've been living off meals based on eggs or canned fish for a lot of what I eat.
 

X-Frame

Member
Anyone have or know of Mike Robertson's "Bulletproof your Back and Knees Seminar"?

http://robertsontrainingsystems.com/the-bulletproof-back-and-knees-seminar/

It's a lot of money and I'm just wondering if it's worth it. I have some back problems, possibly a bulging disc and sciatica symptoms (numb foot when I sit sometimes) so if this is the END ALL for back k owledge it's worth it -- seeing as how just a couple doc appts are that much.

Plus the knees are a bonus.

Check it out and tell me what you think.
 

Enco

Member
sebajuNujabes said:
I haven't measured but I want to say I'm around the 14-15 % area. I know I don't weigh too much but I'm trying to avoid putting on more fat unless I have to. My lifting is in 3 sets of 8 and I add more weight every time I feel the eighth one is too easy; that usually happens every third time I work a muscle group. I'll take your advice and stick to trying to gaining first; then, I'll do harder cardio for cleaning house. Thanks.
Can you squat your weight?

Good luck!

Star Power said:
Age: 22
Height: 5'6/7
Weight: 135 (guess)
Goal: Lose a bit of fat, gain muscle/definition
Current Training Equipment Available: School gym
Comments:

Hey guys, I'm looking to lose like 10 lbs or so of fat (mostly around my midsection - I'm a bit flabby) and gain a bit of muscle/definition. I'm about 5'6, 135 lbs. (a guess, I haven't weighed myself recently). I used to work out regularly with a trainer but I haven't done so in a while, got lazy and gained some weight from inactivity and bad diet. I'm headed back to the gym starting tomorrow and I will be working out every morning. I have a routine in mind, something like:

30 mins cardio (treadmill or elliptical)
ab workout (crunches, push-ups with medicine ball, bicycle, squats, etc.)
Dumbell Chest Press (3 sets of 10)
Curls (3 sets)
Dumbell Bent Over Rows
Dumbell Deadlift Press
Pulldown Machine (3 sets)

how does this sound? This focuses more on upper-body, so should I alternate between this and a leg-centric workout every day?

Also, in terms of nutrition - I'm totally broke and can't really afford to buy health stuff. What are cheap options/ must-have meals? I'm not much of an eater in general, to be honest. I do have a supplement that I take sometimes (Opti-Men).

Thanks in advance!
You should definitely do some leg work.

How advanced would you say you are? Maybe check out this. You shouldn't work out every day. Instead try to work out 3 times a week and do some squats if possible.
 

MjFrancis

Member
There was some pull-up talk yesterday, and I just thought I'd quote some of what Jim Wendler had to say in his last book about pull-ups. Maybe others can find some of it helpful.

5 reasons why chin/pull-ups rule

If you can‘t do chins, you are either hurt, fat or weak - And none of these three things are good. There is a reason why Joe DeFranco believes that chinning strength is a great indicator of speed and the above are why. There is no reason why a big man can‘t do chins so don‘t use that as an excuse.

Do chins with a variety of grips, all the time - Don‘t just stick to one or two different grips. Use underhand, overhand, parallel grip, wide, medium, and narrow. Use ropes, softballs (Glenn B. style) and towels for grip strength. Don‘t be afraid to chin using nontraditional chin bars (chin off random pieces of equipment or structures) – be strong in all ways, on all things. And please, don‘t use straps.

Do a set of chins between every pressing set- You don‘t have to do a ton of reps between each set, but doing this will greatly increase your chin volume without taking any extra time or energy from your workouts. Even doing a set of 1 or 2 reps between your pressing sets will go a long way in improving your back strength.

Use a variety of different tempos - Don‘t be afraid to use a little body English when doing chins, but don‘t be afraid to cut down on the reps and do them strict. Just don‘t turn the exercise into an Olympic lift.

Use them as a warm-up and a workout- I always start every upper body day with chins. What this does is help traction my shoulders and get a great stretch; this is a great way to prepare your body for the pressing work ahead and get some extra volume in. These don‘t have to be for max reps as this is a warm-up.
I know Malleymal is busting them out like there's no tomorrow, and FallingEdge is going to try 25 a day. Both are awesome. I've just started by adding a set of ten first thing in the morning, but I'll take this info under advisement and slowly increase my sets/reps in the morning while also including more at the beginning of every workout and fitting in a few quick ones in between pressing sets. I was at about 100-120 a week for the past few months, over 150 by the end of this week and by the end of June I hope to consistently pull off 200+ a week. I'm increasing the volume slowly enough as to not sabotage any of my lifts and hopefully the adaptation will be painless.

Wendler advises not to major in the minors, but I still think pulls are ridiculously awesome. As I do more and more pull-ups everything else seems to fall into place for me. Definitely my favorite exercise after deadlifts and squats.
 
+1 for pullups! Its probably one of the most exciting benchmarks for me during my training. When I started working out I could only do 2 with a lot of hip sway and knee bending. Now I'm up to 8-7-7 with strict dead hang. Its also one of the only excercises that you still 'progress' in during cutting, because lowering your bodyweight improves your performance.
 

Angry Fork

Member
2 questions:

1. Most efficient exercise for abs? In particular the transverse muscles on the sides? I have a stability ball and this small wheel thing where you get on your knees and roll it forward while having your hands on a handlebar-type thing. Eventually just doing crunches kind of feels like you're not working out the muscle anymore, and I can't tell if it's getting stronger or not.

2. Do squats get easier/more enjoyable the more you do them? Because they're by far the most annoying exercise to do even though it's one of the best. I basically dread doing them, same with lunges. If you do them right then afterwards it feels awesome and worth it, but doing the exercise itself is such a pain.
 
I don't think I'll be taking anymore pre-workout energy supplements. I took some (it was a sample that the associate gave me at nutrition zone, but I'll try to dig through the trash to see what it was) and I just felt really weird. I took it at about 9pm last night since I was dead tired but I hadn't gone to the gym yet. I basically could barely fall asleep and as of right now (8am) my heart is still beating quickly and I still feel like I'm on adderal or something. Do the side effects last this long?
 

Jbird34

Member
kevo_huevo said:
I don't think I'll be taking anymore pre-workout energy supplements. I took some (it was a sample that the associate gave me at nutrition zone, but I'll try to dig through the trash to see what it was) and I just felt really weird. I took it at about 9pm last night since I was dead tired but I hadn't gone to the gym yet. I basically could barely fall asleep and as of right now (8am) my heart is still beating quickly and I still feel like I'm on adderal or something. Do the side effects last this long?


You aren't supposed to take it if you aren't working out
 

grumble

Member
Angry Fork said:
2 questions:

1. Most efficient exercise for abs? In particular the transverse muscles on the sides? I have a stability ball and this small wheel thing where you get on your knees and roll it forward while having your hands on a handlebar-type thing. Eventually just doing crunches kind of feels like you're not working out the muscle anymore, and I can't tell if it's getting stronger or not.

2. Do squats get easier/more enjoyable the more you do them? Because they're by far the most annoying exercise to do even though it's one of the best. I basically dread doing them, same with lunges. If you do them right then afterwards it feels awesome and worth it, but doing the exercise itself is such a pain.

Best oblique movement I can think of is deadlifts and/or squats. With enough weight, you'll get very strong midsection muscles.
 
MjFrancis said:
There was some pull-up talk yesterday, and I just thought I'd quote some of what Jim Wendler had to say in his last book about pull-ups. Maybe others can find some of it helpful.

I know Malleymal is busting them out like there's no tomorrow, and FallingEdge is going to try 25 a day. Both are awesome. I've just started by adding a set of ten first thing in the morning, but I'll take this info under advisement and slowly increase my sets/reps in the morning while also including more at the beginning of every workout and fitting in a few quick ones in between pressing sets. I was at about 100-120 a week for the past few months, over 150 by the end of this week and by the end of June I hope to consistently pull off 200+ a week. I'm increasing the volume slowly enough as to not sabotage any of my lifts and hopefully the adaptation will be painless.

Wendler advises not to major in the minors, but I still think pulls are ridiculously awesome. As I do more and more pull-ups everything else seems to fall into place for me. Definitely my favorite exercise after deadlifts and squats.

Wendler's take on fitness is basically, man up and stop being a pussy. Off putting for some, but I love it.

Regarding chins, nothing has helped my lats and back developement more than chins and weighted chins. What worked for me, was building up to a 4 sets of 10-15 straight with just body weight, then I started added weight.

Right now I use 45lb plate for 4 sets and do a final burnout set with just bodyweight. I also try to do about 100 through the week.
 
Malleymal said:

MjFrancis said:
great info

Good ish guys. I've always thought that chins/pullups were important, just needed a way to fit them in. I always use chins as an assistance exercise on OHP days and I try to go for 5x10. What usually happens is that I get 10/9/8/5/5 and then just am to tired to continue. At home though, I try to hammer out another 20 depending on how my body feels.

I'm in the same boat as MjFrancis. 25+ a day but I don't want to have them impact my pressing movements negatively. I did 10 pullups before heading to work. Will do another 20-25 when I get home.

Both focus on your arm but I believe chinups have more of a focus on your biceps as pullups are more of a back/shoulder exercise. Please correct me if I am wrong (which I sure I am. I vaguely am recalling this information).

Love it.
 
Anyone have a door frame pull up bar? I was looking at a couple this past weekend, but my friend said his leaves an indent on his door frame. I own my condo so I'd rather not damage it.
 
parrotbeak said:
Anyone have a door frame pull up bar? I was looking at a couple this past weekend, but my friend said his leaves an indent on his door frame. I own my condo so I'd rather not damage it.

This is the one I own. If you look at the user uploaded pics, you can see some of the indentations this will leave. I think if you use a thin enough towel, you can have it rest on that but I have no idea how it will impact the pullup bar itself.
 

GashPrex

NeoGaf-Gold™ Member
parrotbeak said:
Anyone have a door frame pull up bar? I was looking at a couple this past weekend, but my friend said his leaves an indent on his door frame. I own my condo so I'd rather not damage it.

I have one - it hangs over the door moulding or whatever you want to call it. I've done like a 1000 pullups on that thing with P90X and I don't notice any damage.

Ok, whats the best cardio workout? Lots of people say long distance running = bad, HIIT = good. What do people here do at the gym for cardio?

I am 3 weeks away from being done with P90x (again) and going to be starting at the gym. I'll need some help figuring out what routine I should start with (yes I've read the OP).
 
Gilby said:
Best protein source in the world is also one of the cheapest: eggs.
I'm pretty strapped for cash as well, so I've been living off meals based on eggs or canned fish for a lot of what I eat.

Any recipes? I'd get tired eating eggs every day lol.
 

GashPrex

NeoGaf-Gold™ Member
Star Power said:
Any recipes? I'd get tired eating eggs every day lol.

I buy the egg whites (they are pasteurized in a carton) at Walmart and put them in things like my morning oatmeal etc...I dunno, eating like 3 lbs of scrambled eggs makes me want to vomit.
 
FallingEdge said:
Both focus on your arm but I believe chinups have more of a focus on your biceps as pullups are more of a back/shoulder exercise. Please correct me if I am wrong (which I sure I am. I vaguely am recalling this information).

Otherway around. Pull-ups involve biceps more, chins hit lats & delts more.

Angry Fork said:
2. Do squats get easier/more enjoyable the more you do them? Because they're by far the most annoying exercise to do even though it's one of the best. I basically dread doing them, same with lunges. If you do them right then afterwards it feels awesome and worth it, but doing the exercise itself is such a pain.

You can learn to love them, they never get easier (assuming you keep increasing the weight).
 

rando14

Member
Luscious LeftFoot said:
Otherway around. Pull-ups involve biceps more, chins hit lats & delts more.

What? I could have sworn chinups work biceps more. Doesn't that make sense? With your hands toward you, your biceps are thereby allowed to assist in the pull. With hands away, your lats pick up more slack.
 
FallingEdge said:
This is the one I own. If you look at the user uploaded pics, you can see some of the indentations this will leave. I think if you use a thin enough towel, you can have it rest on that but I have no idea how it will impact the pullup bar itself.
Thanks, i think that was one of the ones I looked at at Sports Authority. Definitely off my list based on the pictures, unless I can't find something else, and then I guess I'll consider trying it with a towel.

GashPrex said:
I have one - it hangs over the door moulding or whatever you want to call it. I've done like a 1000 pullups on that thing with P90X and I don't notice any damage.
Cool, thanks, do you know the brand, or where you got it and about how much it was? I don't think there are too many on the market.
 
grumble said:
Diets don't have to be complicated. There are two rules to cutting:

1. Eat plenty of protein
2. Don't eat a lot of food; cut caloric intake (however you want, carbs, carbs and fat, whatever) until you're losing weight.

Do 1 and 2 and lift heavy weights and you'll lose fat. It takes a lot of time to happen though. I find sleeping and drinking water help me a little and there are tricks to deal with the cravings, but it's all about 1 and 2.

I have cut fat eating ice cream, and gained weight off bland OCD bodybuilder diets.

Can anyone recommend a good protein?
 

mr afghan jones

Neo Member
Angry Fork said:
2 questions:

1. Most efficient exercise for abs? In particular the transverse muscles on the sides? I have a stability ball and this small wheel thing where you get on your knees and roll it forward while having your hands on a handlebar-type thing. Eventually just doing crunches kind of feels like you're not working out the muscle anymore, and I can't tell if it's getting stronger or not.


Turkish Get Ups. Seriously.

Really strengthens your core from every angle, much moreso than a basic crunch ever could. Great for shoulder strength and overall balance/stability.

Ive got up to about 25-30 kilo dumbell and just stepped up to using a 25kilo barbell which is a whole other world of balance issues.

Plus the moment when you stand up holding a barbell aloft in one hand above your head feels amazing. Strength, balance, poise and control.
 
rando14 said:
What? I could have sworn chinups work biceps more. Doesn't that make sense? With your hands toward you, your biceps are thereby allowed to assist in the pull. With hands away, your lats pick up more slack.

I always assumed pulls meant you hands were supinated... hmm. Oh well, regardless, doing both will cover all your bases.
 

Gilby

Member
Angry Fork said:
2 questions:

1. Most efficient exercise for abs? In particular the transverse muscles on the sides? I have a stability ball and this small wheel thing where you get on your knees and roll it forward while having your hands on a handlebar-type thing. Eventually just doing crunches kind of feels like you're not working out the muscle anymore, and I can't tell if it's getting stronger or not.

By far the best/hardest abdominal exercise I've done is something I've never actually seen anyone else doing (although I'm sure other people must have figured out something similar too, it's basically a type of plank). I'll try to explain it:
-You'll need a weight bench (and possibly some weights)
-stack some 45s on one end of the bench
-sit on the other end facing them
-lean back with your legs out so that your feet stay under the plates on the other end
-the upper half of your body should be hanging off the bench, lower yourself to parallel with the floor and hold that position

Start without any weight, just straighten your arms above your head for extra weight at first (with the leverage of your arms working against you it will make a big difference). Eventually you can start holding a plate in your hands while you do this. I was using a 35lb plate last summer and my obliques were really showing.
 

MjFrancis

Member
Luscious LeftFoot said:
Wendler's take on fitness is basically, man up and stop being a pussy. Off putting for some, but I love it.
I like the guy's attitude, which is much of why I find him a useful authority. Half his material is just about having a constructive look on training. Fucking awesome, is what it is.

elitehebrew said:
Can anyone recommend a good protein?
Lean red meat, chicken breast, cottage cheese, greek yogurt, and you can't forget EGGS.
 

reilo

learning some important life lessons from magical Negroes
Luscious LeftFoot said:
Otherway around. Pull-ups involve biceps more, chins hit lats & delts more.
No, backwards.

Chin-ups = palms facing towards you, close grip, involves biceps more.
Pull-ups = palms facing away from you, wide grip, involves lats/traps more.

Gilby said:
By far the best/hardest abdominal exercise I've done is something I've never actually seen anyone else doing (although I'm sure other people must have figured out something similar too, it's basically a type of plank). I'll try to explain it:
-You'll need a weight bench (and possibly some weights)
-stack some 45s on one end of the bench
-sit on the other end facing them
-lean back with your legs out so that your feet stay under the plates on the other end
-the upper half of your body should be hanging off the bench, lower yourself to parallel with the floor and hold that position

Start without any weight, just straighten your arms above your head for extra weight at first (with the leverage of your arms working against you it will make a big difference). Eventually you can start holding a plate in your hands while you do this. I was using a 35lb plate last summer and my obliques were really showing.
I've done these with an exercise ball and rows of railing at the gym. The exercise ball supports your back while you hook your feet into the railing. Same principle.
 

MjFrancis

Member
It's also in the OP. Semantics are important, despite what anyone else says, but when it comes to pull-ups, all that matters is that you're doing them. Do one. A hundred. A thousand, just get it done!
 
Gilby said:
By far the best/hardest abdominal exercise I've done is something I've never actually seen anyone else doing (although I'm sure other people must have figured out something similar too, it's basically a type of plank). I'll try to explain it:
-You'll need a weight bench (and possibly some weights)
-stack some 45s on one end of the bench
-sit on the other end facing them
-lean back with your legs out so that your feet stay under the plates on the other end
-the upper half of your body should be hanging off the bench, lower yourself to parallel with the floor and hold that position

Start without any weight, just straighten your arms above your head for extra weight at first (with the leverage of your arms working against you it will make a big difference). Eventually you can start holding a plate in your hands while you do this. I was using a 35lb plate last summer and my obliques were really showing.

Almost sounds like you're describing some variation of dragonflys...
 

MjFrancis

Member
FallingEdge said:
I'm in the same boat as MjFrancis. 25+ a day but I don't want to have them impact my pressing movements negatively. I did 10 pullups before heading to work. Will do another 20-25 when I get home.
My rep schemes are all over the place. Looking back, I've done things like this (2x/week since April):

1x15, 4x5 +20lbs, 2x10

10x3 +20lbs, 6x5

pyramid up to ten and back down

I've never been successful on the last one yet. I make it to the top, but getting back down is difficult. I get to ten and on my way down I only make it to 6 or 7. Then I just work down from there. The nice thing about a pyramid to 10 is that a perfect rep scheme would be 100 total reps.

When I'm doing the weighted sets, my goal between each workout is to reduce the rest periods between every set. It's been helping, but I don't know if there are more effective ways to go about it. Sure is fun, though.
 
Luscious LeftFoot said:
Almost sounds like you're describing some variation of dragonflys...

It sounds like a situp with no support beyond your ass in the 'down' position. A dragon flag, by contrast involves raising/lowering your legs and hips. I think dragon flag is more advanced since only your upper torso is supported.

The key in these sort of excercises is lower back posture. Its very easy to curve your back and let your spine bear the load, instead of using your core muscles.

To start, I'd recommend laying on the floor and doing single leg/double leg lowering excercises, using one hand to feel under your lower back to ensure it doesn't curve at all during lowering.
 

Gilby

Member
Luscious LeftFoot said:
Almost sounds like you're describing some variation of dragonflys...

That's the first time I've heard that name for those, usually I hear them called dragon flags.

Not really the same though, since you're using your hips/thighs as a fulcrum instead of your shoulders. Plus, they can be A LOT more difficult since you can add weight.
 
X-Frame said:
Anyone have or know of Mike Robertson's "Bulletproof your Back and Knees Seminar"?

I wouldn't pay $200 bucks for a few DVDs and booklets with info that you can most likely find for free online. Talk to a physical therapist, or something.
 
Hmmm. When I do back, I usually do pullups first. My first set is always the most I can do which is 20 reps. The second and third set I'm worn out already and can do around 12 reps.

My old gym had just a straight metal bar on the other side of the pullup bar. Every other week I would do weighted pullups 45, 35, 25 pounds doing wide grip, close grip, chin ups, and these two bars that stick out. Then I would finish off with some lat pulldowns.

Anyway, I've decided I'm going to work on my bench form. I've noticed that when I start to go heavy, I don't keep my elbows in close to my sides. I start to cheat. Plus, my shoulder still hurts. I don't care if I have to keep practicing with very low weight. I already did incline bench press with 95 pounds, but my form was perfect. It felt really GOOD, too.
 
I just started my third week of Insanity and I am noticing some changes but nothing really drastic. I'm down about eight pounds and my endurance and strength has definitely gone up.

I think I might not have been in shape enough to start Insanity because some of the stuff I just couldn't do but now I am able to do most of it. Sure I have to stop and take really quick breaks but I'm definitely getting stronger.

I haven't really started a diet per se, but I am training myself to eat less. I could literally eat an entire large Papa John's pizza to myself if I was hungry, but now I have been really limiting my portions.

Last night we ordered pizza(NY Style) and I couldn't eat more than one slice of regular and one slice of sicilian without feeling ridiculously full so I am glad that my body is getting used to less food. EDIT: No I am not eating garbage all the time during my workout like pizza, I've been eating pretty healthily without making huge concessions but I am most certainly not eating pizza and the like everyday.

Insanity is supposed to end for me on July 17th but I might have to push it back three or four days because I'm going on a trip with my friends at the beginning of July so I won't really be able to do it.

I probably should have gave some background information. I am 5' 8" and I weighed about 212 lbs when I first started. Right now I am sitting at a little over 205, but I'm starting to look a lot more fit. My goal is to try to get to about 185 by the end of the summer, and hopefully Insanity will get me most of the way.
 
Yeah, form is everything. I remember when I first starting benching seriously and my form was awful. Much better now but I am always trying to improve.

Same with dips. I thought dips were all the same but there are chest dips and tricep dips. Threw me for a curve. They are similar but just different enough where you would focus on different muscles. Annoying for me cause I felt like I wasted my time at the gym.
 
Fitness-Gaf, my friends always tell me to take a every-other day rest when working out, otherwise I will hurt myself. I hear people on Gaf working out everyday. So, what should I do? Should I take a every-other day break, or should I work out everyday?

To clarify, I'm not aiming to lose weight (I'm a twink actually); I am aiming to tone my body, and to work on my abs.
 

rando14

Member
I'd argue it really depends on you and how you feel. Some people work out 3 times a week, some people work out 4, etc.

If you feel you can work out 5 days a week with good form and with effective weights, then I feel it's fine. Just be aware of overtraining. And keep in mind that rest is truly when damaged muscles repair themselves.
 

Neki

Member
Attackthebase said:
Fitness-Gaf, my friends always tell me to take a every-other day rest when working out, otherwise I will hurt myself. I hear people on Gaf working out everyday. So, what should I do? Should I take a every-other day break, or should I work out everyday?

To clarify, I'm not aiming to lose weight (I'm a twink actually); I am aiming to tone my body, and to work on my abs.

You can work out every day if your work-out is targeting specific parts of your body that will not overlap on consecutive days. Otherwise, if you're working out every day but hitting the same areas as the day before, it's not recommended. (I think that's right :O)
 
There's no negative to using the incline function on my treadmill, right? I just tested it out and maximizing the incline at 4mph burns 400 cals in 32 minutes. I kinda just wanna throw on some podcasts and walk for about half and hour and run for 10 minutes. I just wanna burn 500 cals a days keep my intake around 1200 net.
 

Sarye

Member
Attackthebase said:
Fitness-Gaf, my friends always tell me to take a every-other day rest when working out, otherwise I will hurt myself. I hear people on Gaf working out everyday. So, what should I do? Should I take a every-other day break, or should I work out everyday?

To clarify, I'm not aiming to lose weight (I'm a twink actually); I am aiming to tone my body, and to work on my abs.

Rest. You're not doing your muscle any favors by working them every day. The Gaffers that are working out every day are most likely working out different group of muscles or doing cardio every other.

Remember, your muscles grow during rest when your body repairs the muscles. You're not going to get any stronger or bigger by working the same muscle groups every day.
 
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