• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Fixed camera angle games should have never died out

ProgenitorCastle

Gold Member
Hey GAF, I came to the realization that fixed camera games should have never died out...here is why:

-They can control the mood and flow of a game in ways that free camera controlling games mostly don't capture. The best of fixed camera angle games make the player feel like they are controlling an interactive film that they control the flow of at their own pace.
-We haven't really seen the full extent of the graphical prowess that fixed camera angle games can push, pre-rendered for fixed 3D camera angles can push these days. They would still blow out like, open world games in graphical quality probably if still made today.
-VR support for fixed camera games, as Moss has shown, is truly amazing both on a gameplay and visual level. Having your head movements control the fixed camera adds a new layer of interactivity to fixed camera games in a futuristic way that has yet to be explored in more games...imagine a VR Resident Evil fixed camera game that has you searching an area with your head for that shiny McGuffin to proceed to more areas...one can dream!
-We are at a point where many different types of game genres can co exist. So it's not either fixed camera OR OTS OR first person. I think they can all exist at the same time because many other genres still exist alongside each other despite the push for standardization in today's current industry.

This is where I pass the baton on to you GAFers...what are some of the reasons why you think fixed camera games should have never died out?
 

arvfab

Member
Hey GAF, I came to the realization that fixed camera games should have never died out...here is why:

-They can control the mood and flow of a game in ways that free camera controlling games mostly don't capture. The best of fixed camera angle games make the player feel like they are controlling an interactive film that they control the flow of at their own pace.
-We haven't really seen the full extent of the graphical prowess that fixed camera angle games can push, pre-rendered for fixed 3D camera angles can push these days. They would still blow out like, open world games in graphical quality probably if still made today.
-VR support for fixed camera games, as Moss has shown, is truly amazing both on a gameplay and visual level. Having your head movements control the fixed camera adds a new layer of interactivity to fixed camera games in a futuristic way that has yet to be explored in more games...imagine a VR Resident Evil fixed camera game that has you searching an area with your head for that shiny McGuffin to proceed to more areas...one can dream!
-We are at a point where many different types of game genres can co exist. So it's not either fixed camera OR OTS OR first person. I think they can all exist at the same time because many other genres still exist alongside each other despite the push for standardization in today's current industry.

This is where I pass the baton on to you GAFers...what are some of the reasons why you think fixed camera games should have never died out?

Stuff like the Supermassive games still has fixed camera angles.
 

nkarafo

Member
In the past, fixed camera allowed for prerendered backgrounds that would be much more detailed than real time 3D.

Nowadays, real time 3D allows for even more detail and realism than the last few big games that used prerendered backgrounds, such as REmake and RE0.

So that's one less reason to use fixed cameras i guess. But i would still like to see a new RE game with "next gen" prerendered backgrounds and ridiculously detailed 3D models as a result.
 

ProgenitorCastle

Gold Member
Players prefer controlling the camera usually. Its another form of interaction and control. Just like any other input.

And devs know that and thus give players what they want.
From the OP:
-VR support for fixed camera games, as Moss has shown, is truly amazing both on a gameplay and visual level. Having your head movements control the fixed camera adds a new layer of interactivity to fixed camera games in a futuristic way that has yet to be explored in more games...imagine a VR Resident Evil fixed camera game that has you searching an area with your head for that shiny McGuffin to proceed to more areas...one can dream!
 

SlimeGooGoo

Party Gooper
Hey GAF, I came to the realization that fixed camera games should have never died out...here is why:
I stopped reading here, seriously dude

BECAUSE FIXED CAMERA GAMES ARE AMAZING





 

SlimeGooGoo

Party Gooper
Players prefer controlling the camera usually. Its another form of interaction and control. Just like any other input.

And devs know that and thus give players what they want.
Uh, this is more like a chicken and egg thing.

Controlling the camera was something novel with the advent of 3D games, so people naturally wanted to see the possibilities.
But today? Most people don't really care about those things, and a lot of games don't even need that to be fun.
 
I think MGS3 Subsistence was the death knell of fixed camera. MGS1-3 had psuedo fixed camera, where it was dynamic but out of your control other than minor shifting and going first person (which didn't even let you move, just look). Then Subsistence introduced the traditional behind the shoulder camera and the series never looked back. If someone like Kojima can't keep fixed camera alive there is no fucking shot for mass market games.

Granted, MGS3 was really rough to play with fixed camera, but still... It's a shame. That said, I think there is room for both - I love original RE2 and FF7, and I love the remakes.
 

tommib

Member
I think what I like most about fixed cameras and the old pre-rendered REs (as an example) is that in a way they remind me of paintings. The artists have total control over what they want to depict and what they want you to feel. I love the static cameras because they give you time to appreciate the framing, the composition, the mood… It’s closer to traditional art and it’s a shame that we kind of lost it. I’m talking about the pre-rendered stuff not 3D panning and tracking cameras like in Tormented Souls.

But even the real-time 3D cameras are much more effective at creating mood than a free controllable camera. It’s not by chance that SH2 is considered one of the most atmospheric games ever.
 

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Yeah fixed cameras with current graphics should really elevate some games to the next level. Those artistically placed cameras, especially in RE2, were awful in a good way. :lollipop_tears_of_joy:
 

Knightime_X

Member
I don't know..
When I was younger, I fantasized about how cool it would be for older re games like re1 remake to look full 3d. Games like Resident Evil Village here is full 3d, but the screenshot is made to look like fixed camera.
It looks cool, but definitely not as cool as full 3d. I don't think I'd ever want to return to that.
The nostalgia for it isn't there anymore.
 
Last edited:

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer

More like talking about this mofo that invaded most of my childhood nightmares:



Also at the opening when you see them feasting on a dead cop, it was a shocking moment to me and too much gore as I've never knew the concept of zombies or such movies before.



PS: but being resilient as fuck, I've beaten the game anyway back then.
 
Last edited:

tommib

Member
More like talking about this mofo that invaded most of my childhood nightmares:



Also at the opening when you see them feasting on a dead cop, it was a shocking moment to me and too much gore as I've never new the concept of zombies or such movies before.

Yeah, those fixed angles are so fucking claustrophobic. You can only see what they show and the moment you move along and the angle changes you can be sure that they’ll fuck you up with the most horrible nightmares. Good shit.
 

Alexios

Cores, shaders and BIOS oh my!
Check out Alisa, it's like a game from that era that you never played, not just a knock off but with its own cleverly implemented theme and enough borrowed and unique systems to make it worthwhile, though combat can be tricky and feel a little bit off at times. I like the VA except the protag.
It's not just nostalgia speaking, I was burned by efforts failing to do the style justice like Back in 1995 🤷‍♂️

From game to FMV it's faithful to the era, like a studio saw Resident Evil & tried to make their own in '96.
 
Last edited:

ProgenitorCastle

Gold Member
Check out Alisa, it's like a game from that era that you never played, not just a knock off but with its own cleverly implemented theme and enough borrowed and unique systems to make it worthwhile, though combat can be tricky and feel a little bit off at times. I like the VA except the protag.
Played a chunk of it recently, it's well worth it!
 

ACESHIGH

Member
Hell yeah. It doesn't even have to be totally fixed, just a camera that you cannot control. There are times where you don't have to give people what they want, give them what you think it's the best.

Look at the old God of war games. I recently played both PS2 releases aon a PS2 at 480p and they still hold up. Why? Because with fixed cameras and pre rendered backgrounds you can cut significant rendering budget and control the mood of the game. Kratos enemies and the places he went felt immense.
On the new God of war you have a 30 degree FOV with your standard OTS camera that SUCKS ASS for third person combat. Looks like a Skyrim ripoff...
But kids don't know better alternatives. They grew up with It's either FPS with dual sticks or third person OTS/stop and pop cover shooters...so once you deviate from the norm they don't know what to do.
 
Last edited:

Larxia

Member
I understand that it made sense on some older games, so you could have pre rendered background and therefore a lot more details than what was possible back then in real time, but outside of that... I personally (don't get angry or whatever, I saw this happening in another thread, I'm just saying my opinion) don't see the appeal.

I guess it can lead to some specific atmospheric scene sometimes, to present you a scene in a specific way, but it's nothing that a cutscene can't do in a game with a free camera, for example.
Not being able to control the camera instantly make the games a LOT less immersive to me, because I feel like I'm not really in it, and it makes the game feel more like a "small" game.

I do however understand it for stuff like point & click games or other genre still using 2D backgrounds, like hand drawn backgrounds for example, even if it's not my thing in general, but when it's actual 3D, I don't understand it and I always feel like it make the games feel a lot more limited.
I really like being able to look at things by myself, and I'm usually quite slow in games because I spend a lot of time contemplating environments, something I can't really do the same way with a fixed camera. Fixed camera doesn't make me "want" to explore more than I need to.
 

SlimeGooGoo

Party Gooper
Check out Alisa, it's like a game from that era that you never played, not just a knock off but with its own cleverly implemented theme and enough borrowed and unique systems to make it worthwhile, though combat can be tricky and feel a little bit off at times. I like the VA except the protag.
It's not just nostalgia speaking, I was burned by efforts failing to do the style justice like Back in 1995 🤷‍♂️

From game to FMV it's faithful to the era, like a studio saw Resident Evil & tried to make their own in '96.
Looks interesting, but the cover makes it look like a porn game

 

SlimeGooGoo

Party Gooper
I understand that it made sense on some older games, so you could have pre rendered background and therefore a lot more details than what was possible back then in real time, but outside of that... I personally (don't get angry or whatever, I saw this happening in another thread, I'm just saying my opinion) don't see the appeal.

I guess it can lead to some specific atmospheric scene sometimes, to present you a scene in a specific way, but it's nothing that a cutscene can't do in a game with a free camera, for example.
Not being able to control the camera instantly make the games a LOT less immersive to me, because I feel like I'm not really in it, and it makes the game feel more like a "small" game.

I do however understand it for stuff like point & click games or other genre still using 2D backgrounds, like hand drawn backgrounds for example, even if it's not my thing in general, but when it's actual 3D, I don't understand it and I always feel like it make the games feel a lot more limited.
I really like being able to look at things by myself, and I'm usually quite slow in games because I spend a lot of time contemplating environments, something I can't really do the same way with a fixed camera. Fixed camera doesn't make me "want" to explore more than I need to.
 

kyliethicc

Member
Uh, this is more like a chicken and egg thing.

Controlling the camera was something novel with the advent of 3D games, so people naturally wanted to see the possibilities.
But today? Most people don't really care about those things, and a lot of games don't even need that to be fun.
Its pretty simple.

Cory Barlog for example, on God of War changing to a player controlled camera:

Barlog as a storyteller prefers fixed cameras, for the control.

But he as a player prefers controlling the camera, for the freedom.

And so he went with what he prefers to play.

Of course he also pointed out he was still able take the camera control away from the player during cinematics, so its a win win.
 
Last edited:

SlimeGooGoo

Party Gooper
Its pretty simple.

Cory Barlog for example, on God of War changing to a player controlled camera:

Barlog as a storyteller prefers fixed cameras, for the control.

But he as a player prefers controlling the camera, for the freedom.

And so he went with what he prefers to play.

Of course he also pointed out he was still able take the camera control away from the player during cinematics, so its a win win.
Ok but what this has to do with anything I've said?

Steve Harvey What GIF
 

ACESHIGH

Member
Its pretty simple.

Cory Barlog for example, on God of War changing to a player controlled camera:

Barlog as a storyteller prefers fixed cameras, for the control.

But he as a player prefers controlling the camera, for the freedom.

And so he went with what he prefers to play.

Of course he also pointed out he was still able take the camera control away from the player during cinematics, so its a win win.

What freedom? Kratos cannot have the freedom to jump a 2 inch gap on the last game. You have to rely on screen indicators and PiTA Atreus screaming at you to know when you are being attacked from behind...

Old God of war was cinematic when it had to be and zoomed out the camera in combat scenarios to give you all the options you required in combat.
 

kyliethicc

Member
What freedom? Kratos cannot have the freedom to jump a 2 inch gap on the last game. You have to rely on screen indicators and PiTA Atreus screaming at you to know when you are being attacked from behind...

Old God of war was cinematic when it had to be and zoomed out the camera in combat scenarios to give you all the options you required in combat.
Freedom to move the camera with the right analog stick buttercup.
 

Sosokrates

Gold Member
In games like Resident evil I prefer a free camera. In a game like that I think a fixed camera actually takes away mood and atmosphere because you cant see everything when you want to see it.
 

kyliethicc

Member
You can literally have the best of both worlds by including a Photo mode in a 3D based fixed camera game...so it doesn't need to be either or.
Nah. Games like God of War, Uncharted 4, Spider-man, etc.. are the best of both worlds. There are plenty of moments in those games where the camera is fixed and plenty where the player has control.
 
Top Bottom