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[Trolling] For gaming to thrive, Microsoft must exit the console business

Bolivar687

Banned
Microsoft’s foray into the games industry has been uninspired, harmful, and only promises to impede further progress if their reckless misadventures continue.

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The original Xbox was an overdesigned, repulsive monstrosity that deserved to fail as hard as it did. But it would be a mistake to dismiss it as only a harmless embarassment. It irremediably poisoned the console industry by demanding its users pay a subscription for the privilege of playing with friends. For PC gamers at the time, this was heretical, but it has since become the orthodoxy of today.

Redmond followed up their disastrous introduction by pouring another toxin into gaming's bloodstream: the Moneyhat. Up until this point, third party publishers partnered with the console makers who could offer the most appropriate audience and tools for their game. When Square moved Final Fantasy to PlayStation, it wasn’t solely because they had been given a ton of money, but because the expanded storage of CD’s allowed them to create a larger RPG interspersed with full motion video. Gamers as a whole benefitted, as discs became the norm and games began to blur the lines between the cinematic and the interactive.

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I contend that Microsoft’s Moneyhatting of JRPGs for the 360's launch lineup is largely responsible for the extinction of Japanese AAA console development. It polarized the top studios and games to a machine no one in Japan was ever going to buy. It suppressed PS3 early adoption and removed a roster of games that would have been ready and waiting to entice post-pricecut buyers. After Microsoft’s Japanese gambit failed, as everyone said it would, we then settled for an entire generation where the largest Japanese publishers sent their marquee development teams to work on the PSP and Nintendo DS. This is why Motomu Toriyama directed Revenant Wings instead of making FFXIII the best it could be. It’s why Tetsuya Nomura oversaw, completed, and shipped a dozen or so games before ultimately stepping away from Versus XIII. It’s why we got Peace Walker in 2010 instead of Ground Zeroes.

The damage has already been done and we will not recover from this. While Western games have always been a major part of console catalogues, it was always Japan that pushed their boundaries and moved them forward. After dominating last generation, we see what the West has given us for their encore: not just more Assassin’s Creed and Battlefield in general, but specifically more Far Cry 3 and Black Ops II, and a handful of outstanding games that you would much rather be playing on PC.

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Purely from a dollars and cents perspective, the most (and, arguably, only) successful and profitable days of the Xbox brand were under Don Mattrick’s leadership, around the time when their E3 conferences began devoting more time to Kinect 1.0 and streaming services, years before the suicidal reveal of the Xbox One. As all corporations have an ethical obligation to make money for their shareholders, Microsoft has every incentive to one day orient gaming back in that direction, not burning milllions to convince us that Phil Spencer isn’t the executive who ran their first party division into the ground.

What else can Microsoft give us if they remain in the console business? Will their new exclusives be every bit as captivating as Recore, Crackdown 3 and Quantum Break? Will they forge new and mutually beneficial third party relationships according to the Scalebound model? Will anyone really care?

Of course they won’t.

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We say the seventh generation was an anomaly for a very good reason: because it was. There is nothing Microsoft can do to challenge Sony or its constellation of strategic advantages (Jim Ryan is a beast). Their upper ceiling of reasonable expectations is to cannibalize second place status by taking gamers away from Nintendo, thereby depriving another, more innovative competitor of its audience.

Alternatively, Microsoft could return and rededicate themselves to their raison d'être: Windows PC. They could open up their catalogue to Steam, deterring Epic’s misguided, Chinese-funded colonialism. They could continue to improve DirectX in conjunction with Nvidia and AMD. And they could put inXile and Relic in a position to succeed by getting out of their way, as they once did for Ensemble.

It might not be the most glamorous option, but at least it won’t lose as many hundreds of millions of dollars as their next also-ran machine undoubtedly will.

Happy #NationalMakeaNeoGAFThreadDay everyone!
 
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shark sandwich

tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
A lot of those JRPGs probably wouldn’t exist if not for MS funding them. You should thank Microsoft.

Blame xenophobic Japanese gamers for not buying them.

Remember “Xbox didn’t sell well in Japan because it’s big and Japanese people have small homes!!” Along comes the much smaller Xbox 360 with a shitload of great Japanese games, and it still sold poorly in Japan. Instead they went for the PS3 which has almost the exact same dimensions as OG Xbox
 

Wimbledon

Member
You bite your tongue, you swine! May the gods have mercy on your belligerent drivel! :lollipop_steam_nose:

no but seriously take it back
 
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GrayFoxRJ

Banned
I agree with the Japanese market aspect, but kinda isn't the main reason they left the console market.

Xbox failed, but failed enough to push Nintendo away form the mainline competition. This is why they cleverly went to a different route with their Nintendo Wii, and to this day, they still look to hardcore gaming under their own principles.

Pa3 had an expensive dev kit and Wii didn't encourage the Japanese market enough with its polarized sales. It was evident that handheld gaming was the way to go (and then mobile)
 
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Dabaus

Banned
“I contend that Microsoft’s Moneyhatting of JRPGs for the 360's launch lineup is largely responsible for the extinction of Japanese AAA console development. It polarized the top studios and games to a machine no one in Japan was ever going to buy. It suppressed PS3 early adoption and removed a roster of games that would have been ready and waiting to entice post-pricecut buyers. After Microsoft’s Japanese gambit failed, as everyone said it would, we then settled for an entire generation where the largest Japanese publishers sent their marquee development teams to work on the PSP and Nintendo DS. This is why Motomu Toriyama directed Revenant Wings instead of making FFXIII the best it could be. It’s why Tetsuya Nomura oversaw, completed, and shipped a dozen or so games before ultimately stepping away from Versus XIII. It’s why we got Peace Walker in 2010 instead of Ground Zeroes.”

Not sure if this isn’t a joke thread or not but I agree with this sentiment.
 
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DanielsM

Banned
I agree and disagree with the OP. Microsoft did some real great things with J Allard and crew during the 2001 - 2007 time frame, they pushed the console market forward in many ways including obtaining some real good games. They pushed forward some thinking in the internet space, where Microsoft failed with not providing a PC store i.e. Steam. J Allard and crew pushed this thinking forward, the issue was that it was losing quite a bit of dough and was having a hard time getting the market share it needed.

Where I will kind of agree is the market needs consolidation which is what is going to occur. (see all my prior posts)

Even though I tend to agree slightly with the OP on some things indirectly, I kind of feel like its click bait in nature. The console wars are basically over, although Microsoft might release a Xbox Two. It is time for Microsoft to come to the gamers and not the other way around, but I don't think the OP is doing anyone any favors by putting it in the way that he has.
 

Paracelsus

Member
He's not wrong, you calling it bait doesn't make it any less true.
I contend that Microsoft’s Moneyhatting of JRPGs for the 360's launch lineup is largely responsible for the extinction of Japanese AAA console development. It polarized the top studios and games to a machine no one in Japan was ever going to buy. It suppressed PS3 early adoption and removed a roster of games that would have been ready and waiting to entice post-pricecut buyers. After Microsoft’s Japanese gambit failed, as everyone said it would, we then settled for an entire generation where the largest Japanese publishers sent their marquee development teams to work on the PSP and Nintendo DS. This is why Motomu Toriyama directed Revenant Wings instead of making FFXIII the best it could be. It’s why Tetsuya Nomura oversaw, completed, and shipped a dozen or so games before ultimately stepping away from Versus XIII. It’s why we got Peace Walker in 2010 instead of Ground Zeroes.

The damage has already been done and we will not recover from this. While Western games have always been a major part of console catalogues, it was always Japan that pushed their boundaries and moved them forward. After dominating last generation, we see what the West has given us for their encore: not just more Assassin’s Creed and Battlefield in general, but specifically more Far Cry 3 and Black Ops II, and a handful of outstanding games that you would much rather be playing on PC.
Spot-on.
Microsoft killed proper PC western support for years, they destroyed Japanese gaming but most importantly they shifted the focus of gaming towards the west which was the worst thing to ever happen to the medium. As for those going "Sony": Sony is guilty of pricing PS3 599$, but other than that current Sony being the shits is because of Microsoft. Microsoft doesn't shift the focus on the U.S.A., none of this happens.
The ideal scenario is Stadia actually takes off long enough to collapse Microsoft and Sony out the console business, and then there's only Stadia left for AAA western titles and Nintendo for the rest.
 
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Chittagong

Gold Member
That is a hot take OP. You are obviously entitled to your opinion, but it has to be said that Microsoft has contributed to gaming a lot

- introducing downloadable games and indies with XBLA
- the first proper console UI with blades
- UI/HW integration with the Guide button
- DLC integration into games
- Proper online gaming with a persistent username, voice chat, presence. 18 years later, Nintendo is still not there
- achievements
- best controller with proper triggers
- a couple of great franchises like Halo and Forza
- all new cooling engineering with Xbox One X
- Gamer Pass, subscription based AAA content day one

Just to mention a few. They have been underwhelming for the last decade, but I think it’s objectively wrong to say the industry would be better if they left.
 

Klayzer

Member
Millions of Xbox fans disagree with your opinion. Like any company, Microsoft has done things gamers like and dislike. Actually they have helped push the industry forward.
 

DanielsM

Banned
He's not wrong, you calling it bait doesn't make it any less true.

Spot-on.
Microsoft killed proper PC western support for years, they destroyed Japanese gaming but most importantly they shifted the focus of gaming towards the west which was the worst thing to ever happen to the medium. As for those going "Sony": Sony is guilty of pricing PS3 599$, but other than that current Sony being the shits is because of Microsoft. Microsoft doesn't shift the focus on the U.S.A., none of this happens.
The ideal scenario is Stadia actually takes off long enough to collapse Microsoft and Sony out the console business, and then there's only Stadia left for AAA western titles and Nintendo for the rest.


Microsoft didn't kill those developers, the market did, imo You had about 10 year period where the AA studios got squeezed. Now, there are companies that have found niche i.e. like FROM Software. They are not going to sell 20m units but they have tailored their product for a specific market which can get them in the 3-6m unit range. They have to keep pumping out content, but its a nice business,.
 
He's not wrong, you calling it bait doesn't make it any less true.

Spot-on.
Microsoft killed proper PC western support for years, they destroyed Japanese gaming but most importantly they shifted the focus of gaming towards the west which was the worst thing to ever happen to the medium. As for those going "Sony": Sony is guilty of pricing PS3 599$, but other than that current Sony being the shits is because of Microsoft. Microsoft doesn't shift the focus on the U.S.A., none of this happens.
The ideal scenario is Stadia actually takes off long enough to collapse Microsoft and Sony out the console business, and then there's only Stadia left for AAA western titles and Nintendo for the rest.

and thats all your opinion. If MS “shifted” the entire gaming industry then that is 1. Sonys fault for letting it happen despite being the dominant console maker at the time and 2. a good thing IMO considering i find western games superior.

if you want to blame someone for demise of japanese games then blame the developers and then the japanese market who refused to buy games on a foreign console
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
Harsh Op. But I'll allow it.

The truth is that Bill G only allowed the Xbox project to come to fruition because it was a countering move against Sony getting a lock on the living rooms of America. Gaming is not, and never has been, part of MS DNA. Like Apple, they have always considered it a sideshow. Something they are happy to profit from, but essentially, its never been a focus.
 
and thats all your opinion. If MS “shifted” the entire gaming industry then that is 1. Sonys fault for letting it happen despite being the dominant console maker at the time and 2. a good thing IMO considering i find western games superior.

if you want to blame someone for demise of japanese games then blame the developers and then the japanese market who refused to buy games on a foreign console
The ''demise'' of the Japanese market aka the period between 2006 and 2010 when Japanese softcos suffered a lot happened because of the transition from SD graphics development and HD graphics development, it doesn't have anything to do with whatever you're talking about.
Just wanted to clarify that.
 

DanielsM

Banned
What year is it?

I think the OP thinks just because people crap on Microsoft at times out here, that gave him free reign to make up an alternative universe whether on purpose or sarcasm . The original vision of the Xbox and Xbox 360 were done very well, that doesn't mean everything worked out as envisioned, I don't think anyone is discounting what J Allard did back in those days.
 
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DanielsM

Banned
Its obvious satire, but the op will catch plenty of the resident Sony fanboys with the bait lol.

He's missing the point, imo, so he is trying to setup a strawman. He's taking it personal, the market really doesn't have feelings. Xbox had basically two choices, 1.) change or 2.) closure under Nadella, they are lucky Nadella allowed #1, he wasn't so nice to the other consumer products/services. Microsoft has to change and they need to change more rapidly in the gaming space, the old way is now a dead-end once Nadella happened.
 
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Jigsaah

Gold Member
He's not wrong, you calling it bait doesn't make it any less true.

Spot-on.
Microsoft killed proper PC western support for years, they destroyed Japanese gaming but most importantly they shifted the focus of gaming towards the west which was the worst thing to ever happen to the medium. As for those going "Sony": Sony is guilty of pricing PS3 599$, but other than that current Sony being the shits is because of Microsoft. Microsoft doesn't shift the focus on the U.S.A., none of this happens.
The ideal scenario is Stadia actually takes off long enough to collapse Microsoft and Sony out the console business, and then there's only Stadia left for AAA western titles and Nintendo for the rest.
Microsoft alone has the power to destroy Japanese gaming when they can't pay people to pick up their console....IN JAPAN!?

Is this the fucking Twilight Zone?

I cannot believe what I'm reading here. Is there a such thing as Troll-con?
 
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The ideal scenario is Stadia actually takes off long enough to collapse Microsoft and Sony out the console business, and then there's only Stadia left for AAA western titles and Nintendo for the rest.

Personally I'm hoping for a japanese console renaissance in about 15 years with a new SNK console. The west will be playing exclusively via streaming by then.
 

Stuart360

Member
He's missing the point, imo, so he is trying to setup a strawman. He's taking it personal, the market really doesn't have feelings. Xbox had basically two choices, 1.) change or 2.) closure under Nadella, they are lucky Nadella allowed #1, he wasn't so nice to the other consumer products/services. Microsoft has to change and they need to change more rapidly in the gaming space, the old way is now a dead-end once Nadella happened.
Daniel you keep saying this about Nadella, which goes back to a 'leakedl meeting when he took over about him not being keen on the Xbox division. Since thren they have launched 2 consoles (3 if you include the diskless One), and are about to reveal 2 more consoles, and have just launched Xbox Gamepass to hige success. Maybe Nadella wasnt on board with the Xbox division years ago, but he seems fine with it now.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Daniel you keep saying this about Nadella, which goes back to a 'leakedl meeting when he took over about him not being keen on the Xbox division. Since thren they have launched 2 consoles (3 if you include the diskless One), and are about to reveal 2 more consoles, and have just launched Xbox Gamepass to hige success. Maybe Nadella wasnt on board with the Xbox division years ago, but he seems fine with it now.

No point in trying to say anything to that guy. Don't waste ur time.
 
A lot of those JRPGs probably wouldn’t exist if not for MS funding them. You should thank Microsoft.

Blame xenophobic Japanese gamers for not buying them.

Remember “Xbox didn’t sell well in Japan because it’s big and Japanese people have small homes!!” Along comes the much smaller Xbox 360 with a shitload of great Japanese games, and it still sold poorly in Japan. Instead they went for the PS3 which has almost the exact same dimensions as OG Xbox

And decidedly inferior JRPGs. Most of the 3rd party JRPGs came out on both systems, and Microsoft had the better exclusive JRPGs that era.

Hell, the best Final Fantasy game that era was Lost Odyssey, hands down.
 
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