For Glory Hell - Smash 4's awful and indefensible soft ban policy.

Boney

Banned
Jan 6, 2010
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With all the rage quitting controversy that's been going on, I wanted to touch on something a lot more egregious and vile system Nintendo, Namco and daddy Sakurai have put in place in Smash 4.

The game has a soft ban feature that acts without the person actually knowing they have been banned. One might think it's a good thing that terrible users would get reprimanded for their rude online behavior, but sadly Smash 4 has a terrible reporting system, in which you can just click a button after a match to report a user, but without any sort of explanation or evidence as to why.

So here's what happens, salty for glory users, even salty for fun players (taunt parties really make me question humanity) reports other players for being better players, playing "annoying" characters or whatever else. So Nintendo has put in place a system where asshole players can ban other players without any legitimate reason. Get a few reports on your name and presto you're soft banned.

What is being soft banned? It's simple, the game puts you in a separate server that groups you with other players that have been soft banned. So this means that you're gonna be waiting a long time to get a match and you'll be paired up with the same 5-6 people or something all the time for as long as you're soft banned. You can't access tournament mode either, but at least you can play with friends with no problems.

It's funny, the people you end up playing are either total assholes as expected, who are gonna be salty for whatever reason (had a guy call me a coward and what not). People with arguably irritating play styles (played a DDD who would do 90% of the match based on ledge play or projectile heavy characters or what not.) and extremely good players that were probably sent there due to salty players reporting on them.

No one knows how long this soft banning lasts, there's accounts of players being a week, two weeks or even a month or so. The game makes no mention of it, but people calling Nintendo have had representatives tell them that indeed there is a banning system in place, but (no surprise here) there's nothing they can do about it and that you just need to wait it out. It's easy to get back into for glory hell, since you already have the reports on you from before, the new quota should be smaller or something.

Smash gets like 90% of my game time, and I've been banned for over a month. I'm a polite player, never taunt, congratulate good players with friendly banter, usually ignore salty players, worst I'll do is say "stay salty" and leave after playing a good ok guy for a while and out of the blue says mean things. I'm a Samus main, and frankly a pretty good one, so it's no surprise I'll end up getting reported from time to time from salty players.

It's an unacceptable system that ruins people's online access and enjoyment because it uses an arbitriary system that punishes honest players where one doesn't have any way to file complaints other than calling Nintendo to get "there's nothing we can do about it" answer. I'm shocked this hasn't been mentioned before, I didn't know about it before it happened to me. I jokingly called it For Gloy Hell in the smash discord and somebody googled it and it's actually a widespread name for it (which I think is a bit funny.

Anyways, I just wanted to rant and vent, and I suppose I'm looking for some collective outrage to make me feel better.
 

FZZ

Banned
Jun 5, 2013
12,521
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Yeah man it's pretty dumb

Also why a lot of other people have turned to Anther's Ladder
 

Admodieus

Member
Apr 30, 2014
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315
Breaking: Nintendo game has weird, obtuse, and/or unfathomable online multiplayer policies
 

Quonny

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Aug 15, 2015
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It's like they saw the Dota 2 system and said "we can do that".

Then shit the bed.
 
Sep 11, 2014
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I remember a few years ago trying to get SSBB lobbies going and would have three kids teaming me and I'm here like what the fuck how.

Then I played SSB4 on 3DS the other day and it happened again. 10 seconds googling later. Taunt parties - fuck this fucking game.
 

ugh_the_boot

Banned
Feb 24, 2013
1,700
0
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This is easy, just report every single person you play against that way all players will eventually end up on the soft-ban server. Nintendo will eventually be forced to change the way it works if every single player is on that server.
 

Coffee Dog

Banned
Aug 23, 2012
14,437
1
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Why would taunting get someone banned? Why would you get mad at that? Harmless showboating? That's the reason taunts are in the game. That is their function.
 

PSqueak

Banned
Jan 31, 2015
14,163
0
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Breaking: Nintendo game has weird, obtuse, and/or unfathomable online multiplayer policies
Meanwhile: "Waaah waah! Why doesn't street fighter 5 do anything about rage quitters?"

This is why, because any system to punish bad behavior will have a period of time where this kind of thing happens, this is not nintendo "being obtuse", this is nintendo trying something, but when dealing with assholes, no system will be perfect ever, the only thing that can be done is let companies work out the kinks on the system.

It sucks, yes, but at least there seems to be an initiative for doing something about bad behavior.
 

Flip4k

Member
Mar 22, 2014
488
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I remember a few years ago trying to get SSBB lobbies going and would have three kids teaming me and I'm here like what the fuck how.

Then I played SSB4 on 3DS the other day and it happened again. 10 seconds googling later. Taunt parties - fuck this fucking game.
This happened the last time I tried playing For Fun. Unbelievably stupid shit. Could not believe people connected online just to stand around and not attack each other.
 

Boney

Banned
Jan 6, 2010
33,742
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This is easy, just report every single person you play against that way all players will eventually end up on the soft-ban server. Nintendo will eventually be forced to change the way it works if every single player is on that server.
Nobody knows if there's multiple soft ban servers depending on regions or not. Also, according to Nintendo there's "consequences" for reporting a person for no reason. Which is obviously bs as they have no way of knowing if there's a reason or not.

It's not a ban really though is it?
You're locked out of using the online services fully. Waiting for an opponent for an hour or more is not fun.
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Apr 16, 2012
28,442
2
0
Why would taunting get someone banned? Why would you get mad at that? Harmless showboating? That's the reason taunts are in the game. That is their function.
There are people who will do nothing but taunt, or taunt with a group of other people, non-stop, and never start fighting


If you don't join in and try to fight them, then they report you
 

Robiin

Member
Jan 20, 2015
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0
WHAT? I had no idea this existed.

How can this have existed for a year and a half and I've never heard about it? How can Nintendo not spell this out?

On the other hand, they don't release patch notes either...
 

Giever

Member
Dec 20, 2012
2,101
1
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Why would taunting get someone banned? Why would you get mad at that? Harmless showboating? That's the reason taunts are in the game. That is their function.
Who was saying someone should get banned for taunting? Are you referring to the OP complaining about Taunt Parties? Do you know what those are?
 

Wii Tank

Member
Dec 8, 2011
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0
450
I've played a lot of Smash 4 online and never run into this. Maybe I got lucky, but it makes me a little worried about playing in the future though. I didn't even know there was a report option
 

Boney

Banned
Jan 6, 2010
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Why would taunting get someone banned? Why would you get mad at that? Harmless showboating? That's the reason taunts are in the game. That is their function.
Someone might think it's offensive to taunt and report you because they're upset. I don't taunt because I'm usually charging my shot
 

Mass Effect

Member
Apr 24, 2011
11,120
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It's funny, the people you end up playing are either total assholes as expected, who are gonna be salty for whatever reason (had a guy call me a coward and what not). People with arguably irritating play styles (played a DDD who would do 90% of the match based on ledge play or projectile heavy characters or what not.) and extremely good players that were probably sent there due to salty players reporting on them.

No one knows how long this soft banning lasts, there's accounts of players being a week, two weeks or even a month or so. The game makes no mention of it, but people calling Nintendo have had representatives tell them that indeed there is a banning system in place, but (no surprise here) there's nothing they can do about it and that you just need to wait it out. It's easy to get back into for glory hell, since you already have the reports on you from before, the new quota should be smaller or something.

Smash gets like 90% of my game time, and I've been banned for over a month. I'm a polite player, never taunt, congratulate good players with friendly banter, usually ignore salty players, worst I'll do is say "stay salty" and leave after playing a good ok guy for a while and out of the blue says mean things. I'm a Samus main, and frankly a pretty good one, so it's no surprise I'll end up getting reported from time to time from salty players.
Wait, what? How?

Also, I didn't know you could report people.

This sounds like bullshit. Completely unfair to good players.

Also, what are taunt parties?
 
Jan 23, 2012
4,857
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Yeah, I frequently experience the same problem simply for being a fairly good Mega Man main. I am never, ever rude to other players online - even those who are rude to me out of nowhere - and I always change my name to "GOODGAME!" when I'm leaving a room regardless of whether the games actually were good or not. I try to spread goodwill on For Fun/For Glory as much as I can, and yet I find myself in For Glory Hell quite often simply for playing a character that scrubs don't like/don't know how to play against. It sucks.

But, you know, Nintendo online and all that. It isn't exactly surprising.
 

VileOkami

Banned
Aug 26, 2015
101
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Michigan
I really don't think it's Nintendo's fault that assholes are reporting people. Not really sure what they could do about it. Would you prefer there were no repercussions at all?
 

Englebert3rd

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Feb 10, 2014
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London
This is easy, just report every single person you play against that way all players will eventually end up on the soft-ban server. Nintendo will eventually be forced to change the way it works if every single player is on that server.
To be honest that's a really good plan. It's a drastic measure, but it will work out if they don't ban for repeated reporting.
 

Valen

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Oct 19, 2013
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They should add a limitation that you can only report a single person in a given time frame. Maybe only one report every 24 hours? Or something like that. Maybe that wouldn't be enough though.

Now I'm wondering if all those times I was having a lot of trouble being matched to an opponent was because I had been banned without knowing. It's happened so many times now and often after a repeated winning streak. I can't believe people are this petty, but then again, a lot of children play the game.
 

Rran

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Jan 2, 2013
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I really don't think it's Nintendo's fault that assholes are reporting people. Not really sure what they could do about it. Would you prefer there were no repercussions at all?
While it's certainly not Nintendo's fault for people reporting others, the crux of the OP's complaint is the banning system itself--a person could be "banned" (I use that term loosely) for really not doing anything wrong.
 

deadscreensky

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Feb 25, 2016
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I really don't think it's Nintendo's fault that assholes are reporting people. Not really sure what they could do about it. Would you prefer there were no repercussions at all?
Other games allow reporting people without suffering from this same problem. People just want Nintendo/Namco to do this sort of thing correctly.
 

Wyndstryker

Member
May 24, 2006
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Burning Ranger
FG is a cesspool of douches. Thats why I always just limit myself to one match per person. Win or lose, I'm changing opponents.

This just further's that mindset.
 
Jul 26, 2013
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I like Smash 4 and Sakurai's a genius designer, but god damn it if stuff like this doesn't annoy the hell out of me. This explains a lot of my experience on FG. Good thing I dropped that shit for good. Life's too short.
 
Jul 14, 2012
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Heh, I like the idea of a Smash Hell where banned users can all still play each other... not as in "that's a good idea", just... entertaining

Kinda makes me think of MMOs with PK jails, the dark and seedy network of players... only no, innocents are being thrown in :(
 

Boney

Banned
Jan 6, 2010
33,742
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I really don't think it's Nintendo's fault that assholes are reporting people. Not really sure what they could do about it. Would you prefer there were no repercussions at all?
Nintendo as he publisher is at fault for this even if they themselves weren't directly on the game. And leaving a system which can be so easily exploited to affect average players. It's idiotic especially because there's no communication involved. I have no idea when or if I'll be able to actually get back from for glory hell. It's a horrible system that has no regards for the actual users.

(I'm sure I'll be able to play normally in a week or two).

Well they obviously had good intentions with it, people are just abusing it
Good intentions aren't enough as a service provider.
 

Ghazi

Member
Jul 23, 2012
11,049
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I played Smash 4 online once, got booted for "targeting" a player. I think I killed him twice in a row (on accident) and I don't even know how to play smash. Never touched it again, I just do quick AI matches now or play with friends.
 
Thanks for posting this thread, Boney. I've kinda of wanted to bring this up in other threads, but I'm lazy.

I got Smash 4 at the end of January last year and played the hell out of it online for the next 6-7 months. I got banned once in that time (who knows why), and it lasted for 3-4 weeks. I picked up the game again once Bayonetta released. Within a week I was banned again, and it lasted two weeks. Three days later, I got my third ban, and am still in Smash Hell. This system is so, so stupid, and it's ridiculous that Nintendo barely even acknowledges that this is a thing. From what I've been able to gather, if you get reported while hellbanned, your ban can get extended, effectively forever if people keep reporting you? Absurd. F you, Nintendo.
 

Zipzo

Banned
Nov 28, 2015
358
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Tokyo, Japan
I remember in the Smash direct pre-release they mentioned that they will observe reported matches of players with high report counts, otherwise how would they be able to make the distinction between legitimate reports and erroneous ones (which they also said can get you in trouble).

I'm not going to make assumptions but in a huge % of cases when speaking to people who believe they've been unfairly or falsely banned from nearly every game I've ever played, that player was actually walking the line a bit, or maybe even straight up lying.

It's not that I don't believe the idea that Nintendo's system can't make errors but this is really the first I've heard of this and I've played lots of Smash online...
 

Jintor

Member
Oct 22, 2009
87,151
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0
Australia
Wow, Smash Shadowbans?

The idea seems sound EXCEPT for the bit where there's, like, zero peer review of use or no informing of reasoning behind the banning system which makes it... basically... into a weapon

wtf
 

Nocturnowl

Member
Jan 1, 2011
27,453
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I had no idea such a system was in place, how utterly bizarre.
Guess I don't play nearly enough to have encountered it but it sounds really abusable and a right pain for people who play online regularly.
 

Boney

Banned
Jan 6, 2010
33,742
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0
I'm fighting the same guy that kept calling me a coward yesterday.

And he insists on doing that.
 

PSqueak

Banned
Jan 31, 2015
14,163
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I played Smash 4 online once, got booted for "targeting" a player. I think I killed him twice in a row (on accident) and I don't even know how to play smash. Never touched it again, I just do quick AI matches now or play with friends.
That's super weird, i once deliberatedly bullied a player who was using robin to go to edges and cowardly snipe people for affar for like 4 straight games until they changed their character and didn't got any punishment.
 

Brainfreeze

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Jul 18, 2013
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I also think it's dumb you get temp banned for quitting. If the connection is below a certain ping you should be allowed to quit no problem. I'm sick of getting 10 minute bans because I don't want to play my third horrible connection in a row.

Bans for "targeting a specific player" have also ruled out FFA online for me entirely.

It could all use some work.
 

Boney

Banned
Jan 6, 2010
33,742
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I also think it's dumb you get temp banned for quitting. If the connection is below a certain ping you should be allowed to quit no problem. I'm sick of getting 10 minute bans because I don't want to play my third horrible connection in a row.

Bans for "targeting a specific player" have also ruled out FFA online for me entirely.

It could all use some work.
Some people even speculate that sd'ing to end the match quickly could add up for reasons to get banned. Sakurai's list of bannable acts he presented in the direct include sd'ing and idling.
 

Light_End

Banned
Oct 27, 2015
207
0
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What is being soft banned? It's simple, the game puts you in a separate server that groups you with other players that have been soft banned. So this means that you're gonna be waiting a long time to get a match and you'll be paired up with the same 5-6 people or something all the time for as long as you're soft banned. You can't access tournament mode either, but at least you can play with friends with no problems.

It's funny, the people you end up playing are either total assholes as expected, who are gonna be salty for whatever reason (had a guy call me a coward and what not). People with arguably irritating play styles (played a DDD who would do 90% of the match based on ledge play or projectile heavy characters or what not.) and extremely good players that were probably sent there due to salty players reporting on them.
So it's basically, Nintendo managed to combine the worst aspects of League of Legends and archaic KMMO PK penalties and rolled them into its already bad netplay?

Sounds like Nintendo

Since the ranking system for For Glory is already terrible and it's a pretty unbalanced mode anyway (All Final Destination), they could have just stuck by an increasing queue wait ban. It's what League does, and it's pretty good incentive for not AFKing or ragequitting matches.
 

Khezu

Member
Jul 29, 2009
9,108
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0
I have never played Smash 4 online, but I did try and play Brawl online once, 4 matches in a row of taunt parties.

It was the weirdest god damn thing.
 
This does sound ridiculous and unfair. Smash 4 online is one of the most salty and juvenile communities I've encountered. I have really nice bouts, but maybe 1 in every 3 people rage quit on me. If I throw out a taunt after a KO, sometimes it's instant rage quit.