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For those who believe Final Fantasy isn't as good as it used to be, what do you think made the classics so great in comparison?

DelireMan7

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I have played (in this order) X, X-2, VII, XV, VI and XII. Next on my list is XIIIs and I am also really tempted by XIV.

XV is different from the older ones but still quite good for me and remains a true Final Fantasy title.

There are 2 things that I missed from older titles : colorful/fantasy settings and (really) hidden quests/contents (and mini games)

In my mind, Final Fantasy is defined by very colorful and fantasy location and characters. I guess later titles tend to go for "realism".
I also loved the hidden side content (often endgame content) that were in older games. Nothing like such in FFXV.

Also a game that "feels" (very subjective) like a true FF is not necessarily good. My personal experience : FF XII feels like a true Final Fantasy but it's the worst of the one I have played due to the boring story and half of the main cast being forgettable (and music has nothing memorable).

If I had to list elements that makes a game to feel "Final Fantasy" it would be :
-Colorful and/or fantasy settings
-Memorable music
-Memorable characters
-Hidden sidecontent
-Mini games

But a Final Fantasy games doesn't necessarily need to tick all of them to be good in my eyes.

Combat system doesn't matter but I never liked the ATB system of older titles. I prefer classic turn based à la X or new systems like XII or XV.
ATB is like an hybrid turn based that want to feel like an action system. I never got it.
 
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Graciaus

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Everything after 12 went downhill. It's not nostalgia talking I've replayed 5, 6, 7, 9, 12 and Tactics recently. They aren't perfect (Tactics is) but they hold up well. But the linear structure 13 follows came from 10.

13 and 15 are just trash and I expect 16 will be the same. I didn't think 13 could be topped until 15 came out.

13's problems: Extremely linear, terrible weapon upgrade system, nerfed sphere grid character upgrade, boring combat system that plays itself, annoying characters, terrible script and a story that is overly complicated sounding but is fairly simple. I tried 13-2 and turned it off after 45 minutes (20ish were a cutscene).

15 problems: Every aspect of the game is bad. The fact that it sold so much means the series is dead to me.

Edit: Didn't actually answer the question. The gameplay loop is just better in the older titles. The battle systems were simpler but better, the story/characters more interesting (outside of 12), the music superior and the world fun to explore.
 
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lh032

I cry about Xbox and hate PlayStation.
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FF15 impressed me as a visual showcase, gameplay wise is very very unsatisfying, game feels extremely empty, ngl i think i got cheated from all those trailers.
FF7 remake is the only latest FF games i actually like, despite it being linear (i never played the OG version).

These are the old FF games that i actually loved:
FF9,10 and FF12 being the best as it feels like a complete game with huge world, gameplay is a bit boring but i think like the huge "öpen"" world. design

I hope they can mix FF7 remake gameplay with FF12 world design on FF16 with a little hint of DMC gameplay, that would be great.
 

sublimit

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Talking about FFIV,FFVII,FFIX,FFX who are my favorites it was all about the stories and characters as well as the great turn based battle and skill systems. What i liked the most about the stories were that they didn't take themselves too seriously and always had subtle aspects of humor in them.
 
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BaneIsPain

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Sep 1, 2019
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FFX is the last FF I would say I enjoyed it. Although I’m not big fan of crybaby Tidus. FFXV is a massive disappointment. I think return to the turn based would be great for FF.
 

Sander Cohen

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Those who believe FF isn't as good as it used to be should forget FFXV exists and pay more attention to FFXIV.

Starting FF XIV from scratch right now and going through ARR, I guarantee will be worst experience ever in any FF game, maybe even overall. The amount of painfully boring quests, tasks plus typical MMO grinding and uninteresting story…..I hear it gets great in later expansions but I also remember people endlessly complaining how slow FF XIII was to get going. This is like that times 10.

And don’t forget, it’s MMO, VERY different experience from any single player FF game. Whole point of MMOs is endgame raiding with your static in order to get best gear and brag around town, not to experience story or any other bullshit.

I’m still excited for FF XVI but it seems they will need to introduce online aspect in sp FFs a la Monster Hunter in order to capture wider audience share and get to those sales this franchise deserves (10+M).
 
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Oct 16, 2017
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Mmmmm, after X they became too pretentious in their storytelling.
FFXIII was an actual mess. Basically the entire story was told to you rather than shown to you, because they created art assets before the story was done and most of the art assets ended up not usable. Putting graphics first, but going too far.
 
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royox

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Starting FF XIV from scratch right now and going through ARR, I guarantee will be worst experience ever in any FF game, maybe even overall. The amount of painfully boring quests, tasks plus typical MMO grinding and uninteresting story…..I hear it gets great in later expansions but I also remember people endlessly complaining how slow FF XIII was to get going. This is like that times 10.

And don’t forget, it’s MMO, VERY different experience from any single player FF game. Whole point of MMOs is endgame raiding with your static in order to get best gear and brag around town, not to experience story or any other bullshit.
You will forget how shit 2.0 is when you reach Heavensward.

Whole point of FFXIV is the MSQ, this is not wow where the only important thing is the last raid of the patch.
 
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yurqqa

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Too little is left to imagination.
We imaging a living breathing world behind hand-made older games decorations.
And now we can actually see the whole world and it's dissapointing.
 

Fuz

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I agree with the pretentious part. Most of the modern Final Fantasy games feel like they were written by a theater major, college flunk out with a persecution complex that is certain his latest screenplay is nothing short of a work of genius that will change the art forever.
 
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SkylineRKR

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FFX is still a great game but its easy to see XIII and VII R are based on it. Its kind of cringe to play nowadays, even though I can still enjoy the story. But it is very cringe; kind of lame VA, weird dialogues, awkward animations and designs etc. XII looks more down to earth (except Vaan, but his dialogue isn't bad and there isn't much), mature characters like Basch. Very good VA, dialogues aren't cringe at all. There isn't i'm going to save spira, i'm going to destroy it! or a laughing scene in it. Or a L'Cie, Cie'th, Fal Cie explanation. Nowadays I can stomach XII the easiest.

Vaan usually gets slammed for his design. But look past it. He's not a whiny kid at all. He's looking for revenge against people out of his reach, which makes sense. But doesn't go on and on about it. In fact he drops it, and even says the whole becoming a sky pirate thing was a charade. And thats like 5 hours in? He takes a backseat and thats it. More games should do it like this. I don't like a chosen one lead character thats being treated like a god and supposedly the only one that can fix things. This is also what I dislike about BioWare games that all follow this same trend, despite enjoying the ME trilogy and DA:O. I like an ensemble cast with no clear protag.
 

MagiusNecros

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Simple yet amazing story that promotes not only emotion but logic and philosophy as well but ultimately is about a group of people from different backgrounds going on a grand adventure to save the world. An easy to learn combat system with rewarding feeling for mastering it.

And a big sprawling world that feels connected and isn't disjointed and cut up into disproportionate pieces.

If they want an open world game a lot of love and care has to be put into it which I don't think they can do like they were able to before.

FFIX I believe is when the FF franchise as a whole hit it's peak.

The most current FF game I've enjoyed the most since then is XIV with it's slow start and gradual buildup in story. Very well written story IMO.

I think the most FF feeling questlines in the game are Hildibrand quests because there are some very serious undertones but a lot of what happens is very lighthearted and feels full of soul.

Those hoping for FFVIIR to get a open world is fooling themselves, it's little more then a room clearing ARPG. Much like XV it's just taking notes from FF Type 0.
 

Fuz

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I keep meaning to play Tactics, I just never get to it.
Never played it back in the day. But I did play and love both FFTA on DS.
So, one or two years ago I played tactics. And it just didn't age well. It's extremely frustrating, the encounter design is super unfair, you have to farm a lot and there are a few moments where you can easily get stuck and need to restart the game. It badly needs a remake and rebalancing.
 
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AJUMP23

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Never played it back in the day. But I did play and love both FFTA on DS.
So, one or two years ago I played tactics. And it just didn't age well. It's extremely frustrating, the encounter design is super unfair, you have to farm a lot and there are a few moments where you can easily get stuck and need to restart the game. It badly needs a remake and rebalancing.
I will wait then.
 

Foorbits

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Too much anime and complete plot nonsense injected into modern FF. Even FF7R is plagued with Kingdom Hearts level story bullshit. They couldn't just remake FF7 without making the plot 1000x more contrived.
 
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Jooxed

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I really just like the old fantasy theme with lite cyberpunk elements. It's gotten a little too futuristic for me. I didn't really enjoy anything after IX. 4 and 6 being my favorites. But for me it's just personal taste.
 
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SilentUser

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I actually miss turn based gameplay, since lately I just want to play chilling and not having to dodge or having to find the weak point of the enemy. But I also miss the varied possibilities of making your team (I'm look at you, FFXV!), great character design and that also old school world map.
 

Jacob Curnow

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It's very often the atmosphere, in combination with even a small upgrade in gameplay compared to other modern games. The atmosphere is set by a specific in-game artwork style, but alot of it also boils down to who does the music. A good example is Harry Gregson Williams who is the Metal Gear Solid composer. If Metal Gear Solid had a lesser composer; the game may have literally been received in an entirely different fashion (for the worse), and perhaps could have never become what it did today.

The Final Fantasy games that went really big obviously started with 7, then 8 dropped off in popularity a bit, only with Final Fantasy 9 giving the developers a solid bounceback. But 7, 8 and 9 weren't exactly revolutionary in the gameplay department; they were just run of the mill Japanese RPG's with interesting stories, a decent musical score, alot of depth, and somewhat decent graphics on the PS1. So FF was never really that extraordinary; it actually just came down to more money and funding compared to other JRPG's. The better funding simply gave them technical and development edges in certain areas that, quite frankly, they could have been very easily out-witted in a fair money scenario. If you play FF7 today; it's nothing to brag about, although I'd wager that the remake in it's final form (when it's actually finished) is going to be pretty awesome.

Final Fantasy 7 is just an over hyped standard JRPG that was slightly ahead of the curve in its era that is getting blown way out of proportion; in a sense becoming larger than life. But in a way, the FF developers are doing a good job of over inflating the game and capitalizing on it, which could make the original title in its "remake" form be one of the greats.

Final Fantasy X High Definition remake is likely my favorite Final Fantasy of all time, and I think it was legit spectacular. Every gaming franchise has to kind of dovetail its work to the current IQ, and maybe even political leaning of its base. People (very often younger) these days want mindless open world games to "explore" and goof around in, but anyone a bit older seems to have gone through this phase already starting (quite literally) with Grand Theft Auto 1, 2, and London on the PS1. If not the original PS1 GTA's, then Zelda games, Mario 64, Windwaker, Link to the Past, etcetera.

So from my viewpoint, I'd actually take really well made (traditional styled) Japanese/turn based RPG's over the new style ones any day of the week, but that is an unpopular view.
 
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jigglet

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I've never really enjoyed the series, but as an outsider I've always wondered why they didn't go back to a more medieval sort of theme rather than the futuristic or cyberpunk theme that seems to be more common today.
 

MastaKiiLA

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For me, it was the move away from turn-based battle systems, and clearly-defined character classes. The latter really bugs me. The materia system was neat at the time, but I miss having white and black mages, as well as other clear classes that didn't overlap.
 
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Valonquar

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Tactics is super easy. Just spend a few early maps unlocking everything you need for dancer. With 4 or 5 dancers you can have every enemy on the map with half the status ailments in the game. If all enemies are petrified it's an auto win.
 

BusierDonkey

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My favorite FF is still VI on the SNES, it's actually still my favorite game of all time. Each of the old Final Fantasy games were memorable for me in their own ways but they all felt like a part of a whole. They shared a style, an fantasy/iron age era with flying airships, technology powered by magic, kingdoms, knights, etc.

That changed with FFVII. While I loved FFVII and put countless hours into the game it felt like it was a pretty radical departure in more than just the presentation but the game was good enough that it wasn't a big deal. When VIII released though something felt way off, this time the game didn't even feel like a FF game at all but something else entirely. I put 80+ hours into VIII but in the end I lost interest in the story after countless "twists" in the plot that seemed to simply be going for absurd. FFIX was a nice attempt to reign in the series and go back to a familiar fantasy setting but similarly to VIII the story went went a bit apeshit halfway through. I put around 50 hours into IX but I never finished it because I lost interest and haven't revisited the series since. There are a lot of good JRPGs to play and they require a lot of time. Spending 100+ hours in a pretty mediocre game doesn't get me too fired up (not to say it hasn't happened but I generally try to avoid it).
 
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strange headache

Fluctuat nec mergitur
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I used to love FF games, especially VII and the SNES games. I still play XIV, but the mainline games have some serious issues:

A story that you can actually understand!

FFXIII made no f*cking sense and FFXV isn't much better in that regard.
 
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Jun 2, 2017
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Interesting worlds with cities/locales that have a story and good background. I've felt like this was missing for some time now and it's why IX was the last one I really enjoyed, hell I played it again with the mods to improve the graphics on PC late last year and it was the most fun I'd had with a final fantasy game in years.

I've been playing Final Fantasy games since Final Fantasy 4 though and I wonder if maybe some of us who grew up with it have just grown out of it. it happens, you aren't supposed to like something forever lol
 
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DragoonKain

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for these threads I almost miss d.final

:messenger_sad_relieved:
Small d.final story:

I made a simple post last year in the FFVIIR OT that said something like "Beat the game today, really enjoyed it, I think the next game I play is going to be FFXV."

I logged on later and got a notification the post was deleted because "Don't bring up FFXV in the FFVII thread it's gonna start an FFXV bashing session."

I still suspect to this day d.final was behind that innocuous post being deleted because of his love for FFXV. One day the cold case will be cracked!
 
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ANDS

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Nostalgia are driving these opinions. The stories were never the main attraction of FF - it is the individual character development and how well the world is. Personally I think they are all of about the same quality (seriously go back and watch some of Kefka - you see the same overly ridiculous motives and villains in all these games).
 

kunonabi

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Nostalgia are driving these opinions. The stories were never the main attraction of FF - it is the individual character development and how well the world is. Personally I think they are all of about the same quality (seriously go back and watch some of Kefka - you see the same overly ridiculous motives and villains in all these games).
It isnt nostalgia. I can go back and play old games for the first time now and love them just as much as stuff I grew up with. There were plenty of old games I hated that I grew up with too including some of the Final Fantasies. While we we're at it dont tell us why we like something if you dont even know any of us. If you dont have anything to actually contribute to the discussion other than the usual nostalgia "argument" than dont bother posting.
 
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MvCSpiderman

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Final Fantasy II was the only game that attempted to be a real role playing game.

Otherwise all the FFs are the same, it's likely nostalgia that's infecting the op.

All FF games have bad inconsistent convoluted stories from the first game with Garlands interdimensionalwhatsit to dress spheres being new technology but at the same time existed thousands of years before. I STILL don't know what a pulse failsee is.

Gameplay changes every game so they never refine anything.
 

RoboFu

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Everything after 6 was just fans chasing that gaming perfection feeling.

4 was good and gave a good sense of were it could go and then 6 nailed it. Superb, story, characters, and pacing. Nothing has come close since.

... did I mention how good 6 is?
 

Ten_Fold

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FF6/7 was the peak for FF imo especially 6, great story amazing characters and the world was pretty cool. I would say OG FF7(without the spin-offs) was really cool, lots of interesting things in the game at the time, now I think FF8 is actually not a bad game just different the story is pretty wild, and FF9 gives me pre-FF7 vibes. I would say since FF10 and beyond is when things started to get kinda meh, the 13 trilogy wasn’t bad but wasn’t great, FF15 was ok, FF7R was cool. Honestly FF14 is probably the best modern FF game.
 

SinDelta

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There is an absolutely amazing modern Final Fantasy with amazing stories, setting, music, lore, job system with class based storylines and turn based combat. Unfortunately Final Fantasy XIV is locked behind a subscription based MMO instead of being a single player game. (Maybe a good thing, I would likely never play another game if that were the case.)

And this is just based off my impressions of the trial period, before they included any expansions with the trial.

If Final Fantasy XVI can be a single player game that is on par with what XIV has accomplished I will actually seek out a PS5 to play it on.
 
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Pedro Motta

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I love the old and the new, everyone of them is flawed to a point, but each one of them is also magical and interesting in many other ways. FFXV was the biggest stab in the heart, I loved the game but understanding it's potential and where it could have gone story wise without all those cuts. FF Versus XIII would have been the perfect Final Fantasy.
 

MvCSpiderman

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Mar 22, 2017
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Someone mentioned competition earlier in the thread, I believe that's another problem along with what I said before.

Jrpgs never really sold very well outside japan despite the high output. Final Fantasy on consoles was always alone for flagship major jrpgs.

The only competition to FF was Kingdom hearts which was by the same company and even that's stretching things. Outside of that you get rare fads that never return.

So with no competition for Jrpgs on their home turf (consoles) the only things that can match Final Fantasy are Wrpgs which play differently across all styles.

So to be frank jrpg console gamers don't have a choice. Unless you want the lower selling B level Jrpgs, your only flagship level choice for jrpgs is Final Fantasy. They have no reason to change. Zero. FFXV shows you won't stop buying so why bother?

Your FF7 remake isn't even in the style that was promised long ago, it's an action game. They don't give two shits about their fans. But the fans keep buying as they complain.

So where's the incentive?
 
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Furball

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I've never really enjoyed the series, but as an outsider I've always wondered why they didn't go back to a more medieval sort of theme rather than the futuristic or cyberpunk theme that seems to be more common today.

That becasue of those people in charge of the series this decade are mostly into those stuff . Those people that usually do those medival setting are either leaving company or getting demoted becasue those FF game that focus on that setting usually doesnt sell as well as Futuristic cyberpunk .

FF 16 is our first comeback to Medival without being MMO
 
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WoJ

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I haven't played FFXV yet, but was not a huge fan of 12, although I think I need to replay it because I think I'd like it more now. I liked FFXIII quite a bit, but would rate it somewhere middle of the road to lower tier.

A lot of people have hit on things that really made PS1 era FF special to me. For one, I think voice acting has taken away some of the magic as it adds characterization that players previously created through their imagination. Having these larger worlds to explore was also something that played into it - especially being able to fly around on an air ship. Final Fantasy IV was the first game I really deep dove into and I just loved exploring the map and found all the secrets and extra stuff just through exploration. Finding the Land of Summoned Monsters was just so cool to me growing up.

The pre-rendered backgrounds did a great job at creating atmosphere. For all the complaining people do about FFXIII and the FFVIIR being cooridors, the PS1 era FF's are fairly linear without a ton of room for exploration.

But honestly. I think the biggest thing that impacts how modern FF is viewed versus classic is the fact that back in the 90's games weren't as big as they are today. JRPG's, and Final Fantasy specifically were the only place I felt I could go to get these huge plots, interesting characters, and worlds to explore. Now every game is like that. When every game is like that, a game like Final Fantasy loses some of its luster.
 
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Hnjohngalt

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Lack of Adult themes with Adults as characters. Most of the newer FF have kids and Teenagers. I want a Mature R rated with a killer Clown and evil SOB destroying the world. Aka a modern FFVI... or just less Immature crap.