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Opinion Forbes - Microsoft’s ‘No Xbox Series X Exclusives’ Philosophy Is Not As Wild As It Sounds

bumleforce

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man people are salty about this. If you don't liek it just buy the game on xbox one. your still playing on xbox. If you want the best graphics get a series x or play the game on pc. either way your playing an xbox game. Maybe even just get gamepass and xcloud in the future and play on your i pad. who cares as your still in the xbox eco system. Thats what xbox wants. Choice is great. I like I phones but I don't need the most high end phone so I usually get an older apple model when I need a new phone. trust me apple is happy because Im still in there eco system.
 
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thismeinteil

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Microsoft already does top down development relative to the One X on their games, so not to avoid anything else you're saying but this has been gone through.
Except you are using it to try to avoid what I am saying. The XBO X isn't a completely different beast compared to the XBO. It is a similar scenario of going from the Series X to the Lockhart. The same CPU, but a weaker GPU. That's why topdown can be done on them. You can't do the same thing with a completely different CPU that is weak as hell and a GPU that is 88% weaker.
 

Mass Shift

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Microsoft already does top down development relative to the One X on their games, so not to avoid anything else you're saying but this has been gone through.
That's exactly what I was about to say. Top - down development ALREADY takes place with One, One X, PS4, Pro.

These are not foreign concepts in game development. People are really showing their selective ignorance right now.
 

DynamiteCop!

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Except you are using it to try to avoid what I am saying. The XBO X isn't a completely different beast compared to the XBO. It is a similar scenario of going from the Series X to the Lockhart. The same CPU, but a weaker GPU. That's why topdown can be done on them. You can't do the same thing with a completely different CPU that is weak as hell and a GPU that is 88% weaker.
Of course you can, I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall here and I don't mean you specifically but in general with the amount of times in which things need to be repeated.

Early generation games rarely encompass meaningful mechanical differences to their predecessors and most of it comes down to flash and glam. Take Ryse and Killzone for example, both beautiful games which as they stand could not be rendered on either previous console without being heavily stripped. However, mechanically speaking nothing of note in relation to the function of those games and how they play could not be done on the 360 and PS3 devoid of graphics.

I mean you say the One X isn't a completely different beast compared to the One, well neither is the Series X, it's all iterative architectural improvement stemming from the same line of long running development. These consoles coming from Microsoft and Sony are going to be more like their predecessors than any generational hardware change we've ever seen because they are simply an evolution stemming from the same architectural format.

Also you seem to forget that CPU load can be dramatically scaled back by limiting physics simulation, halving the FPS, reducing geometry complexity, limiting on screen AI and a number of other aspects of a game which press the CPU.

This isn't some revelation, you guys all know this, this isn't a trade secret so why act dumbfounded, surprised and in total denial when someone brings it up?

You're not getting a super-computer with an alien architecture in the Series X and PlayStation 5, you're getting an iterative extrapolation on what we already have.
 
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Mass Shift

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Except you are using it to try to avoid what I am saying. The XBO X isn't a completely different beast compared to the XBO. It is a similar scenario of going from the Series X to the Lockhart. The same CPU, but a weaker GPU. That's why topdown can be done on them. You can't do the same thing with a completely different CPU that is weak as hell and a GPU that is 88% weaker.
Game developers do this all the time when they scale for numerous PC configurations. Stop trying to describe a norm as an impossibility.
 

Three

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I don't know how many times it needs to be said, developers tear down, they don't build up. They start at the top of what they can do with a product and then scale back for targets as needed.
Do they now. Let's see...

you already know they usually don't.

They start with the bigger install base and make sure that works well then get the low effort scalable wins like resolution.
 
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Titanfall and Tomb Raider weren’t first party developed or published. I’m all ears for the several more.
true, but the original Titanfall was only released on PC and xbox. No playstation release. Rise of the Tomb Raider was a timed exclusive. Like I've said, MS had a word here otherwise there wouldnt be 360 versions.

anyway:
- Screamride
- Zoo Tycoon
- some XBLA games
 

Grinchy

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You really have to give Microsoft credit for this brilliant PR spin. I don't know if I've ever seen a fan adoption of PR spin this fast or this strong.

Let people pretend that this is a new, pro-consumer philosophy of everyone getting to play despite the fact that it's only for the Xbox One software being eeked out during the first year or so of the XSX lifespan.

If this wasn't just MS having poor planning and a lack of development studios, why wouldn't they be promising that your Xbox One can play all of its first party games for the whole XSX generation? What's so special about it being only one year? You guessed it if you have any sense - they just didn't have XSX software ready and this is their way of putting lipstick on the bad news pig.
 

DynamiteCop!

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Do they now. Let's see...

you already know they usually don't.

They start with the bigger install base and make sure that works well then get the low effort scalable wins like resolution.
Are we talking first party here or not? I realize Obsidian is now first party but that game was already baked in before they ever landed in Microsoft's lap.

Gears 5 was developed downwardly, Forza Horizon 4 was developed downwardly, the games and studios who produce these graphically intense games where these hyperbolic statements are being leveraged develop top down.

You really have to give Microsoft credit for this brilliant PR spin. I don't know if I've ever seen a fan adoption of PR spin this fast or this strong.

Let people pretend that this is a new, pro-consumer philosophy of everyone getting to play despite the fact that it's only for the Xbox One software being eeked out during the first year or so of the XSX lifespan.

If this wasn't just MS having poor planning and a lack of development studios, why wouldn't they be promising that your Xbox One can play all of its first party games for the whole XSX generation? What's so special about it being only one year? You guessed it if you have any sense - they just didn't have XSX software ready and this is their way of putting lipstick on the bad news pig.
And you think Sony is in some radically different position? Did it ever cross your mind that the same situation presented itself to them and they instead moved the development of 8th generation games to PlayStation 5?

Funny but incredibly stupid searching for clicks and rallying on total ignorance.
 

DynamiteCop!

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Did i step into a reality where cross gen never happened before? 😂
Yes, and the irony being all of the people bitching and moaning about Microsoft having an intro period of cross-platform development are going to buy heaps of cross-platform games from third party developers for their PlayStation 5's.

The cognitive bias is hilarious.
 

Panajev2001a

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Ignoring critical reception is not new when comments fall under criticism, the game is about zombies and it dropped in price sharply, not shocking that it sold perceptually well
Wow, does it selling burn that bad ;)?

Death Stranding in my view is a great game, but my view is just one of many and for the level of reverence that game garnered it underperformed both critically and commercially.
We agree then on the game being great ;), but I feel we are working to make scenarios to downplay it up.

If you think 2019 was a great year for Sony or gamers under their veil; you're smoking rocks. Middling experiences two of which fall into an extreme niche of appeal.
If this was a bad year, they are in luck and we gamers are too as they could be oh so much worse was my point :). We have been squabbling over three great games (and looking at DS and DG they likely did not lose money nor lost Sony PS4 sales, quite sure they helped give the platform visibility and extra sales which is a first party exclusive’s number one job).
 

Panajev2001a

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Did i step into a reality where cross gen never happened before? 😂
Did people generally love the idea of cross generation games?
I seem to remember people always shouting “when are the real XYZW games coming?!?”... but sure this time for some reason cross generation games are the best thing ever or something?
 

DynamiteCop!

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Did people generally love the idea of cross generation games?
I seem to remember people always shouting “when are the real XYZW games coming?!?”... but sure this time for some reason cross generation games are the best thing ever or something?
I don't remember people saying that for Forza Horizon 2 or Rise of the Tomb Raider.

You guys are thinking we're getting a Tomb Raider Definitive Edition type translation of games when the reality is it will be more of what happened with Rise, not exactly a reason for people to panic.
 
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Panajev2001a

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Yes, and the irony being all of the people bitching and moaning about Microsoft having an intro period of cross-platform development are going to buy heaps of cross-platform games from third party developers for their PlayStation 5's.

The cognitive bias is hilarious.
Going to buy the nice exclusives thank you very much ;). There may be games that are cross gen and are worth getting on the newest console, but there will also be PS5 patches for PS4 games, and exclusives that push it. I prefer that.
 

DynamiteCop!

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All games will be developed by two studios and sold twice?!
All games? You say that like it will be a ton. How many graphical heavy hitters are you expecting from first party in the first year or so?

You guys act like first party regardless of who just explodes out of the gate with like 12+ games when the reality is that's more than you'd actually see in a two year period.
 
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Panajev2001a

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Game developers do this all the time when they scale for numerous PC configurations. Stop trying to describe a norm as an impossibility.
Straw man again... it is not, except in some scenarios, something insurmountably difficult / impossible. It is something costly and time consuming that often end up screwing over/cheapening out on one or both of the ends of the spectrum.
 

MilkyJoe

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Did people generally love the idea of cross generation games?
I seem to remember people always shouting “when are the real XYZW games coming?!?”... but sure this time for some reason cross generation games are the best thing ever or something?
You'll see a fuck ton of them, because next gen will be the same architecture.
 
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Panajev2001a

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All games? You say that like it will be a ton. How many graphical heavy hitters are you expecting from first party in the first year or so?

You guys act like first party regardless of who just explodes out of the gate with like 12+ games when the reality is that's more than you'd actually see in a two year period.
I am expecting first and third parties/indies to have quite a few use cases for the new HW, definitely more than two games, and focus on a single HW spec to reduce cost and improve end quality of launch games already under tight or constraint (scope vs quality vs time... vs cost).
 

GHG

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I don't have the patience to fully watch every 15 minute video some random idiot on YouTube decides to make.
This is hilarious.

They are actually more in agreement with you than anyone in this thread who disagrees with the direction Microsoft Microsoft are going in.

But because the satirical intro triggered you, you won't watch the rest of it?

How sensitive are you?
 

Panajev2001a

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You'll see a fuck ton of them, because next gen will be the same architecture.
Yawn, sure except where it is not the same architecture. The gulf in CPU performance and the big shift with the custom SSD HW and SW (you better believe both consoles have a much more optimised file I/O stack than current consoles or desktop PC’s do, but the latter can more easily ship 32 GB of main RAM and 8+ GB of VRAM).

There is part hope on my part that people migrate to the new consoles quickly sure. I spend far more in SW than HW while some companies would certainly like me to spend more in HW too (the Apple dream) even without getting much advantage from it. Cross generation / forward compatibility makes “most” or even more sense when you think about iterative HW IMHO and that is not the reality I would like to be in for game consoles.
 

DynamiteCop!

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This is hilarious.

They are actually more in agreement with you than anyone in this thread who disagrees with the direction Microsoft Microsoft are going in.

But because the satirical intro triggered you, you won't watch the rest of it?

How sensitive are you?
Do you read books that start off horrible? Do you watch movies that start horribly? No, the normal response is to close the book or turn it off.

I have no clue who this channel is, they're not anyone familiar to me, getting hit with some click baity intro doesn't offer any incentive to continue watching.
 
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polybius80

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People are slow, they don't understand top down scaling, they don't understand reworking builds, they don't understand that anything can be adapted downward.
not really, it depends the game, multiplaform games that target old systems have to make changes and some are to the point to have a totally different game, try comparing marvel ultimate alliance 2 for wii/ps2 with ps3/360

a game can be designed based in tech, sure you can adapt most graphics to lower systems but if a game requires certain cpu level to move scene elements or certain access time like the solid state in the new systems you wont simply adapt downward you have to make serious changes even to the core game like smaller level, less enemies

MS will make exclusive games anyway that is why they mention a specific time frame, they simply wont be ready for 1-2 years after the console release, the PR and forbes opinion is just to make them look good they know they are not ready, they will change their narrative as soon as the first exclusive game arrives mentioning how good exclusives are because the tech required for it..... blah blah
 
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Panajev2001a

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not really, it depends the game, multiplaform games that target old systems have to make changes and some are to the point to have a totally different game, try comparing marvel ultimate alliance 2 for wii/ps2 with ps3/360

a game can be designed based in tech, sure you can adapt most graphics to lower systems but if a game requires certain cpu level to move scene elements or certain access time like the solid state in the new systems you wont simply adapt downward you have to make serious changes even to the core game like smaller level, less enemies

MS will make exclusive games anyway that is why they mention a specific time frame, they simply wont be ready for 1-2 years after the console release, the PR and forbes opinion is just to make them look good they know they are not ready, they will change their narrative as soon as the first exclusive game arrives mentioning how good exclusives are because the tech required for it..... blah blah
Oh agreed, it is a timing issue for their development studios, but I still see a bit of trying to move towards the iterative HW / Apple like model many execs have wet dreams about. Still the reactions from some PR linked outlets and some fans is indeed curious to say the least especially timeline wise:
* t=t0 Exclusive matters, look at all the studios!!! Monster XSX!
* t=t1 Exclusives? It is not pro consumers, cross generation games are the only pro consumer thing to do... they never hold anything back and are the best option for anyone involved.
* t=t2 This is only for a year then bam exclusives
* t=t3 Exclusive matters, look at all the studios!!! Monster XSX!

 
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polybius80

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If the primary goal was to sell consoles. For MS, it obviously isn't.
if Ms doesnt want to sell consoles then why release a console then? the next xbox is then an unnecessary system that only waste devs time and money porting to its specs , release xbox as a service for nintendo's and sony's consoles then
 

JAMMA

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*IF* it’s just first party games and only for a year or two, I think it’s the same as it would have been anyway, just less discs to replicate because most X Enhanced Assets have been part of the day one updates anyway already.

Also, Third party is King. At the end of the day there are second & third party exclusives that I’d like on both, but the first party stuff is “eh” IMO. 🤷🏻‍♂️

I’m going sit back and enjoy the console war, whichever hardware for multiplats is best is the real winner in my eyes.
 

MilkyJoe

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Yawn, sure except where it is not the same architecture. The gulf in CPU performance and the big shift with the custom SSD HW and SW (you better believe both consoles have a much more optimised file I/O stack than current consoles or desktop PC’s do, but the latter can more easily ship 32 GB of main RAM and 8+ GB of VRAM).

There is part hope on my part that people migrate to the new consoles quickly sure. I spend far more in SW than HW while some companies would certainly like me to spend more in HW too (the Apple dream) even without getting much advantage from it. Cross generation / forward compatibility makes “most” or even more sense when you think about iterative HW IMHO and that is not the reality I would like to be in for game consoles.
oh fuck me....
 
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DynamiteCop!

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Damage control for a disastrous strategy has began in earnest.

Absolutely no reason to buy the XSX as it's essentially gonna be an underpowered PC in small form factor, without the console exclusives that make it worthwhile.
These games releasing on it would have been the games to release on it regardless of them also being on Xbox One so I fail to see your argument. Also do people not upgrade PC's when new hardware becomes available even though they could continue to play said games on the hardware they already have? With this logic everyone would still be rocking 2600k's and GTX 970's.

At least try to make sense.
 
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Panajev2001a

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These games releasing on it would have been the games to release on it regardless of them also being on Xbox One so I fail to see your argument. Also do people not upgrade PC's when new hardware becomes available even though they could continue to play said games on the hardware they already have? With this logic everyone would still be rocking 2600k's and GTX 970's.

At least try to make sense.
Some people do not, games themselves do seem to tie minimum requirement jumps to console generations and you see a broad spectrum of HW requirements on Steam for a reason.
 

DynamiteCop!

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Some people do not, games themselves do seem to tie minimum requirement jumps to console generations and you see a broad spectrum of HW requirements on Steam for a reason.
And those people would be akin to generational holdouts, those who buy the console 5-6 years after it released when things are beginning to wind down.
 

Panajev2001a

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And those people would be akin to generational holdouts, those who buy the console 5-6 years after it released when things are beginning to wind down.
Sure, I can see some of that too.

Both systems, consoles and PC’s, have their unique pros (PC is a fully open and modular platform for example) and cons... not desiring them to merge and get the worst of both (moving/floating HW platform within a closed gatekeeped DRM’ed to heck eco system).
 
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These games releasing on it would have been the games to release on it regardless of them also being on Xbox One so I fail to see your argument. Also do people not upgrade PC's when new hardware becomes available even though they could continue to play said games on the hardware they already have? With this logic everyone would still be rocking 2600k's and GTX 970's.

At least try to make sense.
You're harming your own self interests defending this, it's unbelievable how much you Xbox diehards can take from MS and still try to pretend everything is good (but you're destroyed inside).

Enjoy playing up-scaled XB1 games whilst PS5 owners get to enjoy a true generational leap in experiences, which you can bet your pituitary gland are coming from SSM, GG, Naught Dog, Sucker Punch and Insomniac. I'm telling you, it will blow us away. As you're playing Forza 10 and Halo, you'll look back and think why did I defend this shit, nothing much has changed from last gen to this on Xbox, just better res and slightly framerate.
 

GHG

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Do you read books that start off horrible? Do you watch movies that start horribly? No, the normal response is to close the book or turn it off.

I have no clue who this channel is, they're not anyone familiar to me, getting hit with some click baity intro doesn't offer any incentive to continue watching.
Well for some reason I read your posts so...

The intro is satirical, that's how they roll with everything. No Xboxes were harmed in the making of the intro. You can rest easy.
 

o'dium

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Enjoy playing up-scaled XB1 games whilst PS5 owners get to enjoy a true generational leap......
See, this is why people look at fanboys and go “What the hell is wrong with people?”

Upscaled xbox one games. Sony does walking simulators. Nintendo is a kiddy company.

You sound utterly god damn moronic, in every way, and it’s dreadful how bad some of you get.
 
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SleepDoctor

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What Sony game reviewed better in 2019?

Lol you're really showing your ass here.

Xbox launched one quality in how many years since the last decent one which is up for debate. And Gears in itself has gotten lower and lower scores as more come out.

Best part is that im probably better than you at gears too. Was in the top 300 on leaderboards for 2 and 3. I just have no bias in calling shit out from either side.

Gears 5 is just microtransaction infested game right now. Lootboxes were removed and somehow they still made monetization worse.

Agreeing with scores only when they fit your agenda is fine. Days Gone was easily my personal goty if i had to pick.

You only praise ds to save face cuz its reviews weren't great lol. At the end of it all, content is king. 3 exclusives versus one microtransaction exclusive that's best days are behind it. I know the truth hurts, but it'll be ok champ.
 

DynamiteCop!

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You're harming your own self interests defending this, it's unbelievable how much you Xbox diehards can take from MS and still try to pretend everything is good (but you're destroyed inside).

Enjoy playing up-scaled XB1 games whilst PS5 owners get to enjoy a true generational leap in experiences, which you can bet your pituitary gland are coming from SSM, GG, Naught Dog, Sucker Punch and Insomniac. I'm telling you, it will blow us away. As you're playing Forza 10 and Halo, you'll look back and think why did I defend this shit, nothing much has changed from last gen to this on Xbox, just better res and slightly framerate.
It's called not being a fanatical, understanding that it's not any kind of real problem or a problem at all and that this transitional period however it plays out will be a footnote on the generation and nothing to really think about. Microsoft has shown that they know how to create and leverage hardware, that they're committed, even Frank O'Connor from 343i commented on this as did a developer from Dice and more or less told people they're wrong in a pleasant and developer centric kind of way.

Infinite looks gorgeous and it appears as if Microsoft wants their entire output to be 60 FPS, that's the goal they've been gradually lurching towards. With their games targeting this framerate any kind of transitional gulf for the Xbox One will not be problematic because it allows a surplus of resources for a 30 FPS target. It could be Native 4K at 60 FPS on Series X with nuanced usage of RT and higher settings and straight raster rendered at 720p and 30 FPS on the Xbox One and 1440p at 30 FPS on One X.

I mean take Gears 5 on the One X, it looks like this, this is a current generation game running at 60 FPS and it looks like this. The Xbox One didn't compromise this experience and it's operating at double the framerate. To the surprise of many distance shadows in the game are actually Ray Traced as well.

I think you need to relax and give these people more credit, they know exactly what they're doing.









 
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EuropeOG

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When you buy your next gen console and all you get is 4k version last gen games built for a jaguar CPU.

Some crossgen is expected, it's understandable, but XB1 base console is about 1/10th of the rumoured XSX specs. Don't be scared, swing those big trillion dollar balls.
 
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See, this is why people look at fanboys and go “What the hell is wrong with people?”

Upscaled xbox one games. Sony does walking simulators. Nintendo is a kiddy company.

You sound utterly god damn moronic, in every way, and it’s dreadful how bad some of you get.
You're getting too emotional again. If calling out MS' poor strategy makes you this upset, click on the X in the top right of your screen.
 

DynamiteCop!

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You're getting too emotional again. If calling out MS' poor strategy makes you this upset, click on the X in the top right of your screen.
No one is getting emotional you people are simply getting annoying, not just for the fact that many of you are grossly misinformed but also on the basis that you're not just giving a viewpoint; you're attempting to instill doubt.

It's a motivated and spiteful propaganda based agenda.
 

o'dium

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You're getting too emotional again. If calling out MS' poor strategy makes you this upset, click on the X in the top right of your screen.
You do know how stupid you sound, don’t you? The only “mandate” to run games on old hardware thats enforced on SX is first party titles. anybody else is free to do whatever they want however they want. That means GTA6, Witcher 4 or whatever other massive games likely coming will run to the consoles full potential.

And even THEN, even knowing the above, you still think MS will release “upscaled Xbox one games” as first party titles, and not take advantage of the new tech and port down in any way shape or form.

Do you have any idea how thick you sound? 🤣
 
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Clear

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Make no mistake, you either commit to the capabilities and benefits of SSD storage as part of your project plan or you don't. Its intrinsic because the flow of most games is dictated by i/o concerns.

People are really underestimating the amount of effort that goes into working around limitations on data throughput.
 
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SleepDoctor

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No one is getting emotional you people are simply getting annoying, not just for the fact that many of you are grossly misinformed but also on the basis that you're not just giving a viewpoint; you're attempting to instill doubt.

It's a motivated and spiteful propaganda based agenda.

If you're "annoyed" you're the one who's emotional lol. Couldn't even come up with a good rebuttal to my last post. Sorry you're so "annoyed". You should go outside for a little while bud.

Cuz right now you're up there with tlw and danielsm lol
 
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