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Game Dev [Forbes] The PS5 Versus Xbox Series X Fanboy Wars Hit A Fresh Low

3liteDragon

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During a period of time when both the PS5 and Xbox Series X are selling extremely well and previewing extremely good looking games, dedicated console fanboys are still finding the need to poke holes in each other’s upcoming offerings. Yesterday offered a rare look at this eternal struggle with two manufactured “controversies” unfolding in the same day, two points of criticism aimed at Sony and Microsoft respectively which are frankly, some of the dumbest takes I’ve ever seen in years. And I’ve been watching fanboy flame wars for a long time.

God of War Animation Recycling!
On the PlayStation side, some Xbox fans were highlighting the fact that God of War Ragnarok doesn’t look all that much different than the last God of War, and showed off clips that had Kratos using the same animation to get into a boat that he did in the last game.
God of War Ragnarok, of course, is a direct sequel to God of War, built on the same engine and using a lot of the same work that was done on the first game. The idea that somehow in a sequel, Kratos needs to…get into a boat in a different way, is a criticism I just can’t wrap my head around. Why, exactly, would you need to start from scratch for basic animations like that, throwing out existing work purely for its own sake? That kind of criticism makes zero sense. Are they going to be mad that throwing and recalling the Leviathan Axe works the same way too?

“Asset reuse” is a constant fan criticism of games, but it’s a core part of the industry and a standard practice so you don’t have to start from scratch on literally everything you ever make. Sure, there are instances where the copy and pasting can be a bit too obvious, but here? With…boat entry animation? You are really reaching when that’s the worst thing you can say about a preview like Ragnarok’s.


Redfall's Graphics Are Bad!
But on the flipside, I’d probably consider this one even worse. There has been a leak of images of Redfall, the upcoming Arkane vampire shooter, and the criticism from Sony fans is that the game looks terrible.…in a pre-alpha dev build test state.
The screenshots shown here are clearly very old and very unfinished. Many of them have clear dev assets in them “start mission” buttons, “spawn enemy” buttons. There are shots in third person when we’ve been told this game is supposed to be an FPS. This is old, and early, and does not deserve to have any conclusions drawn about the final look or state of the game. In fact, many developers were quick to point out how long games go looking terrible ahead of release, and things don’t really come together until the last minute. Here’s Destiny, for example, in alpha:
Again, this is an absurd criticism that has no bearing in reality. I think Halo Infinite did warrant a lot of the “bad graphics” criticism it got last year, but that was a public demo of a game that was supposed to be out in a few months. These are months (years?) old leaked screenshots of a game not coming out until some time next year. Apples and oranges, and this is absurd.

There are plenty of criticisms to make of both Sony and Microsoft. These are not it, for either side. Get smarter.
 
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Punished Miku

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This is a new low?

GOW is objectively recycling animations. Redfall is objectively bad looking. If you're not focusing on alpha gameplay, it's more a commentary on the bad art design.

These aren't even major controversial points. I think most people would agree with these.
 
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Thirty7ven

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PlayStation and Xbox fans, is this so hard? Could tell it was a trash article just on that.
 

ManaByte

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Dog Eye Roll GIF by Rover.com
 

Rykan

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This is not a new low. Its a new high. I absolutely love spectating console wars. It's amazing. This is the first console generation where I'm on twitter and I'm so glad I did. The ridiculous nitpicking, the dumb takes, the petty arguments. "Xbots" "Playslaves" "Ponies". I love it.
 
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Magic Carpet

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I'll make a point to change the way I get into a boat everytime I step off the pier from now on. Right foot this time. Left foot next time. Head first into the water the third time.
 
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Bernd Lauert

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Just play games. If gaming bores you, find another hobby. No need to fight stupid identity wars (that's what console wars ultimately are).
 
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martino

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I agree with that opinion but i don't consider this kind of opinion should be considered journalism and appear on journalist sites....
this is giving too much power to one voice not linked to data or something people can build their own opinions on even if the journalist give his.
Journalism should be about that....bringing the data difficult to find...and sadly tweets are far from being that.
Here it's a reaction to reactions without anything meaningful added on it. Some forum post can be more valuable than that.
 
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pratyush

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They read GAF.

To be honest that twitter post of recycling animation is absolutely hilarious. What will they accuse next? That he walks in similar fashion or that Axe is similar or blades are similar?

Accused by some experts of being "less ambitious" by seeing 3 min trailer. Redfall was laughed at because of Alpha footage.
 
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Tier2

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Recycling animations? How many ways are there to get in and out of a boat? What do they expect kratos to do? Jump in the air and do a back flip? Paddle with his chains of Olympus?
There's hundreds of different ways to get in and out of boats irl. I would love to see slightly different animations each time you get in and out of a boat in a game. It's possible to program and more work for developers, but why do that when you can be fast and lazy and just reuse animations from previous games instead.
 

elliot5

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There's hundreds of different ways to get in and out of boats irl. I would love to see slightly different animations each time you get in and out of a boat in a game. It's possible to program and more work for developers, but why do that when you can be fast and lazy and just reuse animations from previous games instead.
yeah dood they're so lazy for not tweaking every fucking animation in a sequel. :rolleyes:
 
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Clear

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GoW being a sequel targeting the same platform as its 3 year old forerunner sharing animations shouldn't be surprising or controversial. Its a pretty dumb complaint.

On the other hand a new IP revealed with a pure CG trailer getting criticised for how it looks doesn't seem like a particularly low-blow.

Be honest, those screenshots make it look like a completely different game to what was shown earlier.
 
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SlimySnake

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Nonsense. Most of the complaints over GoW are from Sony fans.

I am not gonna touch Redfall but I will just say that if the final game looks like that then they deserve every bit of criticism, I dont care if its from Sony fanboys or Microsoft or Taylor Swift fanboys. It is unacceptable to have a next gen game look like that.

And no saying Arkhane only makes trash looking games is no longer an excuse. They are part of a first party studio and should now have all the resources they need to make an incredible looking game that should show off the power of the amazing console MS has built for their developers. It's on MS to ensure the game looks next gen. Same reason why I am blaming Sony and not SSM for the GoW visuals.
 

Sosokrates

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He is missing what the legitimate complaints of Ragnarok are.

People are disappointed because of:

"God of War Ragnarok, of course, is a direct sequel to God of War, built on the same engine and using a lot of the same work that was done on the first game. "

Yes people are upset that a game 2yrs into the new gen is being shackled by 2012 hardware and that from what they showed Ragnarok does not have any new gameplay additions apart from some new moves.

The redfall situation is not comparable because its an early unofficial showing not intended for public viewing. Also there are different expectations for an open world multiplayer shooter.


I would not say the Ragnarok situation is bad, but its disappointing and different to the sony of this time last gen. After watching the SSM developer interview im actually more interested in Ragnarok but I would of been really hyped if they showed GamePlay with UE5 quality environments and character models on par with UE5s meta humans, maybe some solid smoke and fluid simulations not possible on PS4 hardware, but we did not get any of that.
 

Banjo64

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The xbox fans have no match for God of War so they're lashing out. Easy enough to have a laugh and move on.
I genuinely feel sorry for you.

Luckily, Xbox have acquired studios like id Software, Bathesda, Double Fine and Playground who not only have amazing technical prowess but can create fun and exciting worlds with satisfying gameplay loops.

The funniest thing of all is if I had to hedge my bets I’d guess you are a Johnny Come Lately fan of GoW after 2018, whereas I’ve platinumed all of them apart from Ascension.
 
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elliot5

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Nonsense. Most of the complaints over GoW are from Sony fans.

I am not gonna touch Redfall but I will just say that if the final game looks like that then they deserve every bit of criticism, I dont care if its from Sony fanboys or Microsoft or Taylor Swift fanboys. It is unacceptable to have a next gen game look like that.

And no saying Arkhane only makes trash looking games is no longer an excuse. They are part of a first party studio and should now have all the resources they need to make an incredible looking game that should show off the power of the amazing console MS has built for their developers. It's on MS to ensure the game looks next gen. Same reason why I am blaming Sony and not SSM for the GoW visuals.
i mean yeah if it looks bad when they get around to showing it off then it can be fairly critiqued. Same way Craig and Infinite was in 2020.
 

yurinka

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This is a new low?

GOW is objectively recycling animations. Redfall is objectively bad looking. If you're not focusing on alpha gameplay, it's more a commentary on the bad art design.

These aren't even major controversial points. I think most people would agree with these.
The problem is trying to create a drama for no reasing. To reuse an animation that almost never is used in a direct sequel is something all games do. It's ok and nothing wrong on it.

Redfall looks exactly like how games in early stages of development look. These are (very likely poorly compressed) screenshots very likely are old, from when the game was still 2 or 3 years away from its release, they aren't final version screenshots. It's ok and there is nothing wrong on it.

No reasons for drama.
 
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martino

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After watching the SSM developer interview im actually more interested in Ragnarok but I would of been really hyped if they showed GamePlay with UE5 quality environments and character models on par with UE5s meta humans, maybe some solid smoke and fluid simulations not possible on PS4 hardware, but we did not get any of that.
i don't see any reason why a game being cross gen could not do that if the engine is capable of it
Imo your example and expectations are the perfect one where cross gen could last a long still adapting to available power
Maybe one of the problem some people doesn't add to the equation is the more detailed content and new effect you add , the more time it takes to add them....
Here maybe they choose to favor more diversity in the game-play and the place we will go (this alone adding a lot of work). If it's the case i can only second that choice.

You underestimate how low of a bar fanboys can take things...

evil star wars GIF

we also know how moderation always end this
 

VAVA Mk2

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i don't see any reason why a game being cross gen could not do that if the engine is capable of it
Imo your example and expectations are the perfect one where cross gen could last a long still adapting to available power
Maybe one of the problem some people doesn't add to the equation is the more detailed content and new effect you add , the more time it takes to add them....
Here maybe they choose to favor more diversity in the game-play and the place we will go (this alone adding a lot of work). If it's the case i can only second that choice.



we also know how moderation always end this
chef dont try it GIF
 
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Sosokrates

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i don't see any reason why a game being cross gen could not do that if the engine is capable of it
Imo your example and expectations are the perfect one where cross gen could last a long still adapting to available power
Maybe one of the problem some people doesn't add to the equation is the more detailed content and new effect you add , the more time it takes to add them....
Here maybe they choose to favor more diversity in the game-play and the place we will go (this alone adding a lot of work). If it's the case i can only second that choice.



we also know how moderation always end this

Some things can be added to last gen games, like ray tracing.
But it really depends in the tools and budget. Things like UE5s "nanite" are a new technology developed for UE5. SSM probably dont have the time to develop addition models and effects for the PS5, they would likely need to rewrite parts of there engine to facilitate this also.
When it comes to navigating the world, the PS5 versiin should have instant travel through portals and stuff, it will be interesting to see how SSM deals with this because sections and animations were created to cater for slow HDD loading times, I wonder if they will just leave the corridors out of the PS5 version.
 

Dr Bass

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I genuinely feel sorry for you.

Luckily, Xbox have acquired studios like id Software, Bathesda, Double Fine and Playground who not only have amazing technical prowess but can create fun and exciting worlds with satisfying gameplay loops.

The funniest thing of all is if I had to hedge my bets I’d guess you are a Johnny Come Lately fan of GoW after 2018, whereas I’ve platinumed all of them apart from Ascension.
This board has gotten so disingenuous and so tiresome.

I'm not sure on what planet Hellblade, an extremely mediocre game with good visuals for the size of the team that made it (it got ported to Switch for crying out loud), is now considered on par with GoW 2018. Now that MS has bought the team, they are world beaters up there with the best? Like I say over and over. Results matter. These studios do not have the results yet.

Both of you guys are acting like you're full of it, and your defensiveness around Xbox when you bash on anything PS related is old.

In terms of the recycling issue ....

Mega Man 1-6 on NES say hello. And I know there are countless others starting from that point on.

I mean the big game for Xbox this year is Halo Infinite, where a bunch of the shown enemies seem to look and behave exactly the same as a team from 20 years ago. But for some reason the same group of people who are so livid over GoW think that Halo has game of the year potential.

Ok.

Nothing to see here.

It's pretty clear that a lot of the most vocal members of this board don't want to actually discuss games because they like them. They want to play some weird form of corporate fanboy sports. Because in sports to win, the other guy has to lose, even though that's not what is happening here. All of the big platform providers can "win." Yes there will be a ranking, and it probably won't be changing any time soon. Get over it if you don't like it.

If you're into this crap, have fun y'all.
 

Banjo64

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This board has gotten so disingenuous and so tiresome.

I'm not sure on what planet Hellblade, an extremely mediocre game with good visuals for the size of the team that made it (it got ported to Switch for crying out loud), is now considered on par with GoW 2018. Now that MS has bought the team, they are world beaters up there with the best? Like I say over and over. Results matter. These studios do not have the results yet.

Both of you guys are acting like you're full of it, and your defensiveness around Xbox when you bash on anything PS related is old.

In terms of the recycling issue ....

Mega Man 1-6 on NES say hello. And I know there are countless others starting from that point on.

I mean the big game for Xbox this year is Halo Infinite, where a bunch of the shown enemies seem to look and behave exactly the same as a team from 20 years ago. But for some reason the same group of people who are so livid over GoW think that Halo has game of the year potential.

Ok.

Nothing to see here.

It's pretty clear that a lot of the most vocal members of this board don't want to actually discuss games because they like them. They want to play some weird form of corporate fanboy sports. Because in sports to win, the other guy has to lose, even though that's not what is happening here. All of the big platform providers can "win." Yes there will be a ranking, and it probably won't be changing any time soon. Get over it if you don't like it.

If you're into this crap, have fun y'all.
What a load of bollocks. Some bell end comes in with clear and obvious bait, it’s going to get responded to.

Holding God of War up on a pedestal like it’s the greatest game of all time, absolutely embarrassing.

Sony don’t have an answer for a lot of shit, so what?

And the fact that you’ve just said ‘these studios do not have the results yet’ about id Software, Bathesda, Playground and Double Fine proves that you literally know fuck all, or are just acting like a bell end. You can chuck Obsidian and Turn 10 in there too.
 
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CheeseCake

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What a load of bollocks. Some bell end comes in with clear and obvious bait, it’s going to get responded to.

Holding God of War up on a pedestal like it’s the greatest game of all time, absolutely embarrassing.

Sony don’t have an answer for a lot of shit, so what?
But it's considered one of the greatest games of all time.... lmao... why so salty?

It won GOTY and this one might win next year as well.

Anyway, he is right on multiple fronts, especially the one about Halo:

I'm a HUGE fan of halo, but it looks worse than Halo 5 and I HATED Halo 5 apart from the multiplayer.