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Force Feedback Vs. Rumble

Mmmkay

Member
Aug 13, 2005
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Force feedback devices exert a normal reaction force to the direction of your movements. Rumbles just... rumble.
 

aoi tsuki

Member
Jun 15, 2004
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Mmmkay said:
Force feedback devices exert a normal reaction force to the direction of your movements. Rumbles just... rumble.
Bingo. Rumble is a simple sensory indicator that something is happening, like sound.

i'd really like to see a version of Get Bass on Wii with true force feedback, if that's possible. Reeling in a huge bass (with actual reeling motions) and fighting to keep control of him would be pretty sweet, and tiring.
 

Mmmkay

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Aug 13, 2005
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phantomile co. said:
i suppose it's going over my head, cause all im getting from these descriptions is turbo rumble. not some new form of rumble unlike previous rumble in controllers.
For the Wiimote [I assume this is where we're heading] to have force feedback in the conventional sense, it would need at least 6 retrorockets mounted to the controller so it could restrict movement in any given direction.

Rumble feedback doesn't restrict your movement, it's on the bottom rung of the haptic ladder. The problem is that as they're both of the same family, they often get used interchangably.
 

SnakeXs

about the same metal capacity as a cucumber
Dec 20, 2005
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Ok, let'se use the most common use as an example.

A racing wheel.

If a racing wheel has force feedback, when you turn the wheel, it actually FIGHTS you as you turn it, making it exceedingly harder to turn in that direction.

With a vibration feedback wheel, you can go end to end in a split second, since you're just pushing around "weightless" plastic.

You can't have force feedback on a standard controller. I think that's where you're getting confused.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
Apr 26, 2006
44,944
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SnakeXs said:
Ok, let'se use the most common use as an example.

A racing wheel.

If a racing wheel has force feedback, when you turn the wheel, it actually FIGHTS you as you turn it, making it exceedingly harder to turn in that direction.

With a vibration feedback wheel, you can go end to end in a split second, since you're just pushing around "weightless" plastic.

You can't have force feedback on a standard controller. I think that's where you're getting confused.

oh yeah, that's what it is.

a joystick with force feedback does the same thing when you're playing a flight simulator.
 

blackadde

Member
Feb 24, 2005
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without actually bolting the controller down with a heavy base (or using ridiculously fast/heavy gyros) you are not going to get any real force feedback. jeez, didn't you guys ever own ff flightsticks?
 

Tumalu

Member
Oct 20, 2005
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It would, in theory, be possible to resist a change in the angle of the controller, but that's about it. Nothing that goes on in that tiny thing (unless, as others have said, it's bolted down), is going to produce the constant force needed to resist non-rotational movement.
 

FightyF

Banned
Jun 7, 2004
16,250
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www.myspace.com
There isn't going to be FF in the fairy wand, it would be impossible.

FF is relative to the steering wheel base. Unless there are propellers on the wand...you're not going to feel anything fighting your movement.
 

Tumalu

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Oct 20, 2005
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Speevy said:
I CANT MOVE...MY REMOTE IT MUST...BE 9 THOUSAND POUNDS MY GOD
And of course, if the controller could somehow resist an external force, there'd be nothing stopping it from resisting the force of, say, gravity and hopping right off the table and out the window. :lol
 

Speevy

Banned
Jun 26, 2004
62,861
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Mario Kart Wii player found dead under mysterious circumstances.

"I told him not to resist. It's too powerful!"
 

ahmad

Banned
Feb 9, 2006
1,763
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Speevy said:
Mario Kart Wii player found dead under mysterious circumstances.

"I told him not to resist. It's too powerful!"

:lol :lol "But it was too late"
 

ahmad

Banned
Feb 9, 2006
1,763
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I wonder how much would the wii controller cost if force feedback will be included. I think the controller would greatly benefit from it.

Even without force feedback, how much do you think it will cost???
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Dec 9, 2005
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That's the new big announcement by Nintendo. They've managed to make a device that creates a large variable gravitational field within the controller. This gives true force feedback as it can exert a force in any direction. Rather than using this for transportation and space travel, Nintendo has decided to stick with thier roots and use it for the Wii. On a related note, the Wii will be priced at 6.3 million dollars US a unit.
 

Of All Trades

Member
Oct 14, 2004
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ahmad said:
I wonder how much would the wii controller cost if force feedback will be included. I think the controller would greatly benefit from it.

Even without force feedback, how much do you think it will cost???
Cost has little to do with it; something that small and un-mounted cannot physically provide meaningful force-feedback.
 
Jul 16, 2004
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ahmad said:
I wonder how much would the wii controller cost if force feedback will be included.
The cost of an heavy motorized base to attach it to or the cost of little rockets attachet to its extremities, you decide :lol

When Nintendo talks "force feedback", they mean "rumble".
 

sc0la

Unconfirmed Member
Jun 7, 2004
14,254
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Fight for Freeform said:
Where did this idea come from anyways? Who said it would have FF?

How could people believe that?!
it started because people generally use force feedback and rumble as interchangeable words. thats why you saw everone call those racing wheels "true force feedback" for needed differentiation.

the controller will rumble. that is all it will do. anyone who believes otherwise is a a moran idot
 

Galactic Fork

A little fluff between the ears never did any harm...
Dec 9, 2005
6,173
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scola said:
it started because people generally use force feedback and rumble as interchangeable words. thats why you saw everone call those racing wheels "true force feedback" for needed differentiation.

the controller will rumble. that is all it will do. anyone who believes otherwise is a a moran idot

Sadly sooooo many people believe it! They want swordfights where the controller forces the hand to stop when it contacts another sword on screen! They want a fishing sim where the fish fight back. not only want, expect.

I personally hate rumbling. I always turn the function off. There is a time and place for vibration, and it's not while I'm playing video games.
 

Deku

Banned
Jan 6, 2005
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If Nintendo managed to include a more sophisticated 'rumble' device in the controller that does more than just rumble but actually gives more descriptive feedback to the user, then color me impressed.

It would make Iwata's claim that Nintendo isn't interested in putting 100% of the hardware budget on the screen more persuasive to a lot of people. We'll have to wait to see if this is true or not.
 
Deku said:
If Nintendo managed to include a more sophisticated 'rumble' device in the controller that does more than just rumble but actually gives more descriptive feedback to the user, then color me impressed.

It would make Iwata's claim that Nintendo isn't interested in putting 100% of the hardware budget on the screen more persuasive to a lot of people. We'll have to wait to see if this is true or not.
It would impress some people, but the VAST majority of gamers I know have no idea there's even a difference between rumble and force feedback. They use the terms interchangeably.
 

Acosta

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Jun 9, 2004
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Maybe they have managed to include an illusion of Force Feedback through rumble, but it´s actually impossible to put force feedback in a wand you control on the air (at least they used rockets or elf magic :p)
 

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
Jun 8, 2004
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Chris Remo said:
It would impress some people, but the VAST majority of gamers I know have no idea there's even a difference between rumble and force feedback. They use the terms interchangeably.

That could be because "force feedback" and "rumble" essentially mean the same thing, literally. The steering wheels mentioned use resistance... "force feedback" merely means that some form of force is used to give the play an indication of something happening.

How about "resistance feedback"?
 

blackadde

Member
Feb 24, 2005
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force feedback :



rumble :



good? we set? alright.
 

Gek54

Junior Member
Jun 8, 2004
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Rumble is a form of force feedback which is why alot of Wheel controler's can be marketed as having force feedback when it is in fact only rumble. What you have to look for is TRUE force feedback, or does Logitech own that term?
 

isamu

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Jun 7, 2004
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Gek hit the nail on the head

You will never see a TRUE Force Feedback wheel on the Xbox 360 for example.
 

blackadde

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Spider_Jerusalem said:
I used this playing MechWarrior 2... it was simply perfect :)

so did i. i remember it came bundled with interstate 76 and the fan whined like a bitch.
 

acidviper

Banned
Jan 23, 2005
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I think its they are analogous terms. Nintendo came out with a rumble pak for the N64 and its was known as rumble. Sony countered with vibration Dual Shock and then that medical company sued Sony for using their patented Force Feedback technology.
 

Roders5

Iwata een bom zal droppen
Oct 14, 2005
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The guy who said his dad had binoculars which became still in mid air when you flicked a switch, whats that called?

Edit: Found it
http://www.buytelescopes.com/product.asp?pid=1824

My dad has these, they are binoculars with image stablization which I am pretty sure is the same technology you are talking about. You press a little button and instantly the thing just SOLIDIFIES itself in space, no shakiness when looking through the binoculars, and its very hard to rotate the thing in your hand, it just wants to stay absolutely still. Very very cool, and would be amazing if implemented into the Revmote. However look at that price...
 

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
Jun 8, 2004
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Roders5 said:
The guy who said his dad had binoculars which became still in mid air when you flicked a switch, whats that called?

Edit: Found it

That sounds interesting... it vaguely sounds like a gyroscope, in as much as it offers strong resistance...
 

Tim the Wiz

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Sep 22, 2004
10,747
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Fight for FreeForm said:
Where did this idea come from anyways? Who said it would have FF?

How could people believe that?!

IGN Wii: Are you going to be using any force-feedback when you're throwing the ball or when you're getting hit, or anything like that?

John Schappert: Yes, we are. I think it's a little early to talk about how. Right now, these are the core mechanics that we've been working on getting them right. And I think you'll see further refinement there, but I think we're pretty happy with how Madden will be experienced on Wii.

Hmmm...
 

pestul

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Jun 13, 2004
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Tim the Wiz said:
Well, if it's anything at all like those binoculars.. then the wiimote is a beast technologically. Sometimes I think we forget that they spent hundreds of millions on that dinky looking thing..