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Former Bungie director joins 343 Industries to work on Halo Infinite

Fredrik

Gold Member
I finally made myself complete Halo Infinite a couple days ago. I'm still pissed at how bad it was.

Not even slightly interested in trying the mp.

The lackluster campaign ends with you having the ability to complete all if the side quests you might've missed (so almost all if them then), I've never deleted a game so fast in my life...

I've no idea why diversity hire Bonnie Ross still has a job! Oh wait I know, it's cos they don't want to lose woke points.

They need to close the studio right now and give Halo to a studio that knows what they're doing, or make a new studio with Bungie and other fps vets at the top, it's just too late for 343 I'm afraid.
Bonnie Ross gets lots of hate but she’s the studio head and not the director or designer or programmer, there should be enough people at 343i by now with knowledge how to make a great game, if there isn’t then that’s the main problem and it won’t be fixed by replacing some higher up people.
 

Gavon West

Member
Joke of the year he means....

If this game gets a re-review...it would never get the same 10's again. Most of those reviews looked all like paid reviews.

Never understand how this game ever got those high scores.
Because it's legit a great game. The SP was a helluva good time, and the MP (though lacking in more game modes) still has gunplay and gameplay like no other. The foundation for a complete MP experience is there. They just need the push over the hill. Hopefully this new hire can make that happen.

What's all this "Halo is in trouble, shit?" What did I miss?
 

Chukhopops

Member
I feel embarrassed to be a neogaf member everytime I read that. What a stain on the history of this site.
Agreed, should have been Forza Horizon #1 and Halo Infinite #2 instead of the other way around.
Joke of the year he means....

If this game gets a re-review...it would never get the same 10's again. Most of those reviews looked all like paid reviews.

Never understand how this game ever got those high scores.
Everyone was paid: all 94 reviews, all GOTY titles, all Neogaf GOTY votes and even all 20M players received the game for free. It was all a marketing operation.
 

clarky

Member
Bonnie Ross gets lots of hate but she’s the studio head and not the director or designer or programmer, there should be enough people at 343i by now with knowledge how to make a great game, if there isn’t then that’s the main problem and it won’t be fixed by replacing some higher up people.
But shes the Boss? surely the person responsible for putting these people in the positions they (were) in ,in the first place. id argue the buck does stop with her. You said it yourself in your post above. Surely its the bosses fault if the upper middle management isnt upto the task no?
 
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Roxkis_ii

Member
Everyone was paid: all 94 reviews, all GOTY titles, all Neogaf GOTY votes and even all 20M players received the game for free. It was all a marketing operation.
If the game had to be re-reviewed, do you think it would get as much praise as it did last year?
 

Chukhopops

Member
If the game had to be re-reviewed, do you think it would get as much praise as it did last year?
The game was reviewed 8 months ago so I guess it would review more or less the same, maybe even better if it reviews again after coop is added? Most of the reviews were about the SP anyway so I’m not sure what would change.

You would think this game is universally hated if you only read GAF but it’s basically 5-10 people hating on it non-stop and saying the game is dead (which I can assure you it’s not, at least on console), broken etc.

Only thing I’d agree on is that last year the competition for GOTY was much easier than it would have been any other year.
 

DragonNCM

Member


 

clarky

Member
If the game had to be re-reviewed, do you think it would get as much praise as it did last year?
Game is Decent, great at times. Nothing has changed, its the live service aspect that is an utter failure. if the seasons were 3 months and we got a couple of maps per season, brand NEW modes better customisation, forge on time, co-op on time, an expansion this fall. Then we wouldnt be having this conversation.

I love whats there, but there just not enough of it to sustain a live service right now.
 

Jinzo Prime

Member
Hey Microsoft, here's some free advice:

FIRE BONNIE ROSS

FIRE FRANK O'CONNER

FIRE KIKI WOLFKILL


You can hire all the talent you want, but until the idiots in charge are gone, your franchise will not recover it's lost popularity. That being said, Paul Bertone was the campaign design lead for Halo 2, 3, ODST and Reach, so hopefully he will be able to steer the future campaigns in a positive direction.
 

proandrad

Member
The game was reviewed 8 months ago so I guess it would review more or less the same, maybe even better if it reviews again after coop is added? Most of the reviews were about the SP anyway so I’m not sure what would change.

You would think this game is universally hated if you only read GAF but it’s basically 5-10 people hating on it non-stop and saying the game is dead (which I can assure you it’s not, at least on console), broken etc.

Only thing I’d agree on is that last year the competition for GOTY was much easier than it would have been any other year.
I only played the single player so I assume the multiplayer was incredible, because the campaign seemed like a work in progress. The open world was pretty boring, if you played the first 1 hr of the game you basically played the entire game. Both deathloop and Returnal were much better single player games.
 
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clarky

Member
I only played the single player so I assume the multiplayer was incredible, because the campaign seemed like a work in progress. The open world was pretty boring, if you played the first 1 hr of the game you basically played the entire game. Both deathloop and Returnal we’re much better single player games.
Each to their own, I found Deathloop just ok, yet to start Returnal but i believe its great looking forward to diving in at some point.

I though the Halo campaign was the best since 3, the gameplay loop is phenomenal. If they figured out a way to switch equipment on the fly better, gameplay wise it would be as close to perfect as they'll get.
 
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N30RYU

Member
didn't Sony paid bungie a "talent fee" so ppl don't leave the company? what a waste of money tbh
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
But shes the Boss? surely the person responsible for putting these people in the positions they (were) in ,in the first place. id argue the buck does stop with her. You said it yourself in your post above. Surely its the bosses fault if the upper middle management isnt upto the task no?
The director is sitting on the most important chair, that’s where the game is being made. Plus, honestly the concept artist, that’ll set the tone for the whole project. After that they need talented people who knows combat, level design, progression, story, enemy behaviour etc etc.

The boss is important for the studio but not for the game when the problems are of this nature where the game plays well but it’s just boring (subjective I know). I know Staten supposedly came in and removed a bunch of redundant stuff but considering my main complaint is that it’s so samey I kinda want to know what was removed. Maybe whole areas were removed, other parts of the ring with different biomes, who knows 🤷‍♂️
 
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Lady Jane

Banned
Bonnie Ross gets lots of hate but she’s the studio head and not the director or designer or programmer, there should be enough people at 343i by now with knowledge how to make a great game, if there isn’t then that’s the main problem and it won’t be fixed by replacing some higher up people.

It's always the fault of the manager, no matter what. Her decision making trickles down toward the entire company and it's her jobs to make sure it's running smooth. To not accept this responsibility is bad management.

When I was a bar manager, both of my bartenders didn't show up without noticing me. So I thought the bar was open and running fine. I wasn't notified until 11pm that the doors are closed and this was a Friday night. It cost the bar at minimum $15k. Was it really my fault? No. Was I the right person to blame? Yes. Since I was blamed, I routinely checked up on it if I wasn't there and became a better manager.

Bonnie Ross (the manager) is the person to blame. It's how the corporate world spins and it's the right way. It's been a decade of this. She needs to go.
 
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clarky

Member
The director is sitting on the most important chair, that’s where the game is being made. Plus, honestly the concept artist, that’ll set the tone for the whole project. After that they need talented people who knows combat, level design, progression, story, enemy behaviour etc etc.

The boss is important for the studio but not for the game when the problems are of this nature where the game plays well but it’s just boring (subjective I know). I know Staten supposedly came in a removed a bunch of redundant stuff but considering my main complaint is that it’s so samey I kinda want to know what was removed. Maybe whole areas were removed, other parts of the ring with different biomes, who knows 🤷‍♂️
Who puts the director in the chair in the first place? The guy before Staten, frankly was not upto the job( chris something i think) and the multiplayer leads basically wasted years trying to make not Halo but a hero shooter(lol). Thats on Ross

Seems to me like Staten came in gutted the game , finally shipped something half decent and here we are. i dont think she had any say in his appointment. Personally think he was parachuted in to save the day by MS.

That said i do think things are moving in the right direction now, slowly. It will be a while before we see the fruits of Joes influence proper imo
 
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CatLady

Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
Hey Microsoft, here's some free advice:

FIRE BONNIE ROSS

FIRE FRANK O'CONNER

FIRE KIKI WOLFKILL


You can hire all the talent you want, but until the idiots in charge are gone, your franchise will not recover it's lost popularity. That being said, Paul Bertone was the campaign design lead for Halo 2, 3, ODST and Reach, so hopefully he will be able to steer the future campaigns in a positive direction.

Good to know, hopefully we can get more SP content sooner rather than later. In any event this is a great addition to 343i.
 

STARSBarry

Gold Member
Honestly it dousent matter who they add to the team because the people holding this game back are the suits, and that's become apparent with the recent departures and tweets from the developers repeatedly asking you to send negative feedback on decisions you don't like.

Someone has a real hardon for GaaS and I'm betting its their make or break career move because they sure as hell don't want the game improving without it. They just recently slided the prices back up after the original backlash resulted in them lowering.

And for everyone saying "The base game is still great it just needs more content" people play great games even with limited content available, fact is infinite is only "good enough" and without a carrot for people to chase after their not playing.
 
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clarky

Member
Undead Labs to 343 . . . it's like trying to decide which ship to go down with. heh
Not really. State of decay was great and so was Halo.

I do find it weird how how some videogame fans hope certain games turn out bad or dev studios fail. Especially if you dont own the platform. Its like hoping your neighbors car breaks down.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
Who puts the director in the chair in the first place? The guy before Staten, frankly was not upto the job( chris something i think) and the multiplayer leads basically wasted years trying to make not Halo but a hero shooter(lol). Thats on Ross

Seems to me like Staten came in gutted the game , finally shipped something half decent and here we are. i dont think she had a say in his appointment. Personally think he was parachuted in to save the day by MS.
Hard to say, do you know? might be a whole group of old guys debating on who’re going to be the director, or they might go with plain experience from someone having been a director before.

Idk I’ve just seen enough bosses come and go during my days to know it’s rare to be able to turn around an old moving ship. Problems often go deeper than that. The few times it has happened near me it has been a left field change, new blood in all areas, instead of some old fart just stepping up who has worked there since kindergarten.
 

clarky

Member
Hard to say, do you know? might be a whole group of old guys debating on who’re going to be the director, or they might go with plain experience from someone having been a director before.

Idk I’ve just seen enough bosses come and go during my days to know it’s rare to be able to turn around an old moving ship. Problems often go deeper than that. The few times it has happened near me it has been a left field change, new blood in all areas, instead of some old fart just stepping up who has worked there since kindergarten.
Its not hard to say at all lol. Its what a management structure is there for. its litteraly her job. Same with the tv show, the buck ultimately stops with her, at the top.

Who gets the blame if your football team plays shit? and who gets the blame if the manager of the team is shit?

Look im the first person usually to call people out for saying people need to be fired, and i really like Infinite but its been clear for a while 343i have major internal problems and things need to change. They struggled getting 5 out of the door and now the same issues persist with Infinite. Like i said hopefully they are turning a corner, but shit clearly needs to he done differently over at 343.
 
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Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
Game is Decent, great at times. Nothing has changed, its the live service aspect that is an utter failure. if the seasons were 3 months and we got a couple of maps per season, brand NEW modes better customisation, forge on time, co-op on time, an expansion this fall. Then we wouldnt be having this conversation.

I love whats there, but there just not enough of it to sustain a live service right now.

Spot on, 6 months a season and not enough new content each time, that's the issue. What is there is great there just isn't enough of it.
 

Fredrik

Gold Member
Its not hard to say at all lol. Its what a management structure is there for. its litteraly her job. Same with the tv show, the buck ultimately stops with her, at the top.

Who gets the blame if your football team plays shit? and who gets the blame if the manager of the team is shit?
Yes I know the boss is blamed for everything, I just don’t agree that it’s crystal clear that that’s where to problem actually lies. Maybe some day we’ll get to know what actually happened.
 

Dane

Member
Halo Inifnite won't die because they know its a big IP with a good launch reception, there has been games with worse reception that got turn around.
Bonnie Ross gets lots of hate but she’s the studio head and not the director or designer or programmer, there should be enough people at 343i by now with knowledge how to make a great game, if there isn’t then that’s the main problem and it won’t be fixed by replacing some higher up people.
Because the management is responsible for overseeing the hires and studio structure, they are over reliant on temporary contracts which means the permanent staff gets flaked by constant swaps and their middle ups that were criticized for being oblivious to the franchise core and changing ideas every time to please some popular trend that fans disagreed. The only reason why MCC got a turn around was because they hired the right guy, Pierre Hintze, who managed a team to complete its legacy releases, make major fixes and the PC port with mod tools, he was brought in at the last minute to Halo Infinite.
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
FIRE BONNIE ROSS
Bonnie Ross is not the director. You want the actual game devs who should be working on the game to waste their sitting on meetings with Microsoft execs? Bonnie Ross has been working on Microsoft's gaming division before Xbox and is probably the seniormost member after Phil Spencer. She was the one who requested the Xbox execs to give Halo Infinite extra time and budget(instead of the usual 3-4 years) and was the one who bought in Joseph Staten first into Xbox Publishing Division in 2014 from Bungie and later into 343i in 2020. There is no one else in 343i who can talk with the top guys in Microsoft better than her.
FIRE KIKI WOLFKILL
Her job is to manage non gaming related stuffs.
 

Dane

Member
Bonnie Ross is not the director. You want the actual game devs who should be working on the game to waste their sitting on meetings with Microsoft execs? Bonnie Ross has been working on Microsoft's gaming division before Xbox and is probably the seniormost member after Phil Spencer. She was the one who requested the Xbox execs to give Halo Infinite extra time and budget(instead of the usual 3-4 years) and was the one who bought in Joseph Staten first into Xbox Publishing Division in 2014 from Bungie and later into 343i in 2020. There is no one else in 343i who can talk with the top guys in Microsoft better than her.

Her job is to manage non gaming related stuffs.
Didn't Spencer said in Gary Whitta's show that he had to say to Bonnie to delay the game to ship with both modes, confirming Brad Sams information regarding both being separate? Because from what I remember from Brad and Jason is that the idea for a long time was to have both modes separate until Xbox had to convince the studio the otherwise and delay the game.
 

Jinzo Prime

Member
Bonnie Ross is not the director. You want the actual game devs who should be working on the game to waste their sitting on meetings with Microsoft execs? Bonnie Ross has been working on Microsoft's gaming division before Xbox and is probably the seniormost member after Phil Spencer. She was the one who requested the Xbox execs to give Halo Infinite extra time and budget(instead of the usual 3-4 years) and was the one who bought in Joseph Staten first into Xbox Publishing Division in 2014 from Bungie and later into 343i in 2020. There is no one else in 343i who can talk with the top guys in Microsoft better than her.

Her job is to manage non gaming related stuffs.
Bonnie Ross has been the head of 343 Industries since it's inception and what has she accomplished throughout her tenure? Halo 4, whose multiplayer direction was aimed at a Call of Duty fanbase that largely ignored it's existence and drove away Halo's long term fanbase? Halo 5: Guardians, whose story was so bad, the next game in the series resolves it's conflict offscreen? Halo Infinite, a game that was in development for six years and to this day still doesn't have as many features as a game that was released twelve years ago? That last point being a continual complaint had by the community sense Halo 4 which launched without Firefight, a ranking system, and playable Elites. Halo 5 launched without so many things: FORGE, Firefight, armor customization, playable Elites, splitscreen multiplayer, Big Team Battle, Grifball, Emblem customization and multiplayer playlists. and Infinite still doesn't have Forge and just got Co-Op, kind of.

Oh, and I almost forgot the abortion of a TV show that was in development for a decade by Kiki Wolfkill, An ad campaign that completely misled fans about the story of Halo 5, Bonobogate, Battlepass, Req Packs, there are videos, essays, articles, and so many posts about the misdirection of the Halo IP under these three idiots that anybody can find out just how slagged the series has really become. Oh, and to anyone who says: 'It's not her fault she's just the manager!', all I can say is that at the end of the day, the Studio Head or Director, or Executive Vice President or whatever is ultimately responsible for the product that gets put out onto the store shelf. If you are charging people money for a product, if you put your name on that product, it means that you are responsible for it no matter what.
 
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Droxcy

Member
Competitive was really fun for those first couple weeks but the lack of content and updates just killed it. Is it too late probably. With Forge mode coming in August we might see another resurgence highly unlikely though.
 

levyjl1988

Member
The only way to fix the game is to make it more in line with Halo 3 and Halo Reach, bring back that lobby mic thing with clans. Scrap the whole season shit, so annoying and scummy.
 

Bernkastel

Ask me about my fanboy energy!
Didn't Spencer said in Gary Whitta's show that he had to say to Bonnie to delay the game to ship with both modes, confirming Brad Sams information regarding both being separate? Because from what I remember from Brad and Jason is that the idea for a long time was to have both modes separate until Xbox had to convince the studio the otherwise and delay the game.
That was in 2020. I remember in a 2018/2019 interview where Spencer said that Bonnie Ross requested him that Halo Infinite needs a longer dev cycle than previous entries.
Nice get for MS. Are there many folks that worked on the bungie halo games still at bungie? Might be hard to get any of those with the compensation packages Sony is offering. Would love to see it though!
Not much
 
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clarky

Member
Bonnie Ross is not the director. You want the actual game devs who should be working on the game to waste their sitting on meetings with Microsoft execs? Bonnie Ross has been working on Microsoft's gaming division before Xbox and is probably the seniormost member after Phil Spencer. She was the one who requested the Xbox execs to give Halo Infinite extra time and budget(instead of the usual 3-4 years) and was the one who bought in Joseph Staten first into Xbox Publishing Division in 2014 from Bungie and later into 343i in 2020. There is no one else in 343i who can talk with the top guys in Microsoft better than her.
This is not true. If you have a source to correct me id like to see it. Staten is on record saying he directly offered to help and he was the one who got the extension. I said earlier my thoughts are this was not some genius move by her, as 343s hiring mandate was they didnt want people from bungie, and he was probably sent by MS to right the ship (source :my ass ).

The extra time she requested (if true) was largely squandered by hires and promotions she would have had a large part in.
 

CatLady

Selfishly plays on Xbox Purr-ies X
That was in 2020. I remember in a 2018/2019 interview where Spencer said that Bonnie Ross requested him that Halo Infinite needs a longer dev cycle than previous entries.

Not much

That's really interesting research you did, Bernkastel Bernkastel , Great job. I had no idea there were so few developers from the original Halo devs left at Bungie.
 

BabyYoda

Member
Bonnie Ross gets lots of hate but she’s the studio head and not the director or designer or programmer, there should be enough people at 343i by now with knowledge how to make a great game, if there isn’t then that’s the main problem and it won’t be fixed by replacing some higher up people.
You should always look to the top. If she was a man she would've been fired years ago, same story with Kathleen Kennedy.
 

clarky

Member
The only way to fix the game is to make it more in line with Halo 3 and Halo Reach, bring back that lobby mic thing with clans. Scrap the whole season shit, so annoying and scummy.
Ironic, this plays more like 3 than any other Halo, and Reach's MP is among the worst in the series. lobby chat would be nice, if there were lobbies also don't want to go back to map packs and split up the 5 people that are left playing if thats what your thinking instead of seasons.
 

II_JumPeR_I

Member
So when will they hire someone that puts some fire under this slow working folks there?

Ironic, this plays more like 3 than any other Halo, and Reach's MP is among the worst in the series. lobby chat would be nice, if there were lobbies also don't want to go back to map packs and split up the 5 people that are left playing if thats what your thinking instead of seasons.
The last time i played Halo 3, it wasnt possible to slide, sprint or clamber...
Infinite plays nothing like Halo 3.
 
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BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
Competitive was really fun for those first couple weeks but the lack of content and updates just killed it. Is it too late probably. With Forge mode coming in August we might see another resurgence highly unlikely though.

Yeah I agree. I had a great time with it for a few weeks then uninstalled and that was that. I doubt it will ever get back to that level of popularity but does it really matter?

Fun for a few weeks is more than I can say for most games I’ve played.
 

Del_X

Member
I had fun with the campaign which, after Halo 5, was all I wanted. Hope we get a new campaign by Spring 2024 and they can keep the cadence up. The foundation is great IMO.
 

clarky

Member
So when will they hire someone that puts some fire under this slow working folks there?


The last time i played Halo 3, it wasnt possible to slide, sprint or clamber...
Infinite plays nothing like Halo 3.
More like , not exactly. If you want something exactly like Halo 3 then theres a product for you....
 
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Bonnie Ross needs to just be placed elsewhere, not neccesarily fired. She is way too focused on having a diverse and "woke" studio made up of C- college grads than having which should be one of the top 3 studios in the industry, considering the franchise they're working on. The head of a studio needs to try to have the best talent, regardless of their personal beliefs BS. If they're all middle aged white men, so be it as long as they're the best for the job.
 
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Seriously loved the game when it came out - but I’ve beaten the campaign - I played the multiplayer more than most games but there’s nothing really new to bring me back. No couch co op, or regular co op. No new campaign missions or areas. No large improvements or changes to multiplayer.

The game is straight up awesome but they needed to iterate on it, do something with it if they want it to stay alive and a fuck of a lot faster
 

Deanington

Member
clarky clarky Pretty much spot on with every take.

I like infinite and its MP. Its also the first Halo game I have played since Halo 3/MCC ( which I have never beaten and only played a little of the MP ). Infinite got me to stick around so far *shrugs*. Well not a daily player, but enough to complete the seasons ( 10 more levels for season 2 ) and events. To have the other options that are missing/people are wanting would be icing on the cake.
 
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