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Former Sony Dev says, PS5 and Xbox Series X Power Difference Is STAGGERING !!!

-kb-

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A source on the patent would be a great place to start.

Ok, so you consider that "Cheaping out", fine. Some people also see Sony's use of 36 CU and clocking the GPU at 2.23 their form of cheaping out. You see, insulting the other side does nothing to prove a point, it just makes you look desperate and not having an answer to all that bandwidth difference. 560GB/s vs 448GB/s is nothing to sneeze at and one of the MAJOR differentiators according to NXGamer himself, the man that's always defending the PS5.
You clearly dont want to understand how the hardware actually works and that's fine, but dont just respond trolling then cause you'll derail real discussions.
 
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Hawk269

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First, I want to see the design of the PS5... What's taking forever to show it?
IMHO...They have not finalized it yet. If you go back to the PS4 reveal in Feb. 2013 they did not show it...it was not actually shown until June 2013 at E3. I personally think they are finalizing it and what it looks like. The other thing is if you look at the Xbox One and PS4, they shared the same kind of look in color where it was part black matte and black shinny. Yes, the One was bigger and more of a box and the PS4 was angular...but they were not that massively different looking.

Perhaps the PS5 will kind of look like the Series X? Anyways, I just think they are not 100% done with the final look and are taking the time it needs to get it right.
 
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eastwood333

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_rogame is wrong, they may have more intersection engines but they run slower then the PS5's. If you read the patent it'll become obvious that they are most likely relative to the core clocks.
Rogame has a good track record. But I don't know. I do wonder if MS ups the clocks in the near future. DF stated that MS is underclocking the XSX
 
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-kb-

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Where does it state that these cores uplift with frequency? The mere fact that they're connected to them doesn't mean they do not possess their own operations logic.
For a core to run in sync which caches it has to run at a relative clock speed of those caches, because the intersection units are running using the TMU caches they must run at a relative clock to the TMUs caches and therefore the core clock. This is the most likely scenario based on the patent that we know at least the XSX Is using for raytracing.

Rogame has a good track record. But I don't know. I do wonder if MS ups the clocks in the near future. DF stated that MS is underclocking the XSX
Just because someone has a good track record doesn't make correct all the time.
 
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down 2 orth

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Fun to see this war of messages between shills, influencers, and fanboys.

"Show me the games" was the official X-Box fanboy line last time around. My, how the times are changing.
 
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Hawk269

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Rogame's own words:
One of the drawbacks of using less CUs is less "Intersection Engines" for HW Raytracing which are tied to each shader unit Xbox Series X have 44% more Raytracing HW than PS5. That's why Microsoft is demoing "Real Time Path tracing" while Sony is talking about global illumination
I don't know,but Rogame is reliable with his technical knowledge. It will be interesting if MS ups there clocks more in the near future. According to DF, MS may be underclocking and have room to upclock more
If and that is a big "IF" MS is able to upclock the Series X GPU beyond it's current clock rate...the meltdowns will be immense. I personally think they should push the clocks as high as they can but able to maintain the goal of the noise and heat level. It has as 300w Power Supply so they have the room to go...it comes down to the cooling, thermals and noise. From what DF has said it is whisper quiet...but we don't know if the demo units were pushing demanding demo's/games.

I am a PC guy as well and just build a custom Water Loop gaming PC and I push the clocks as far as I can. I spend days tweaking the clocks so I stable on both the CPU and GPU. If MS has the room to do it, why not? The original Xbox One got both a CPU and GPU upclock prior to launch.
 
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CatLady

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Surely you must know Andrew Reiner was abused into submission and vowed never partake in any insider talk again after his tweet around E3 last year that put the PS5 at 13TF and the Xbox Series X below that.
This toxic fanboy shit comes from both sides of the fence.
I'm not aware of that situation, but it's absolutely NOT cool to run anyone off just because they don't say the right things about your favorite plastic box.

I would say I have somewhat less sympathy for the person you mention though because if he was claiming as an insider that the PS5 was 13 TF he was a fake insider along the lines of good old Tommy Fisher. John OTOH was simply reporting the data that had been found at GitHub which btw turned out to be true.
 
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Hawk269

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Who cares? PS5 will still get more games, better games and be the hardware of choice for more people.
While history (the PS4 1st party lineup) agree's with you and if things stay the same it might....I think it is a little presumption to assume that MS's 15+ studio's are just going roll over and make indie games. But based on the success of the PS4 I think many of those will migrate to the PS5...but I would not discount what the teams at MS can or will do. They never had that many 1st party devs. supporting a console. Will it be enough to equal Sony's 1st party devs we don't know. What we do know is that Sony's teams have a great/fantastic track record and it is MS in the position to have to prove themselves. But I would caution people dismissing MS's 1st party teams.
 
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nordique

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as a sony fan it's obvious x series destroys ps5. Sad time to be a sony fan. I really don't game that much to buy 2 consoles. if i want to get the cream of the crop nextgen experience i have to get a X series.
it didn’t matter when the ps2 came out did it?

the switch is pumping out some beautiful games and that’s running a mobile chip

think about games like god of war and uncharted 4, theyre amazing to look at right now and next gen will only build on that

yes the series X is going to be more powerful but I don’t think anyone who is planning on owning only one system next gen will be disappointed if they go with the ps5

games will still be in the same ballpark like how Xbox one was with ps4

I’ll be getting both myself but people need to just accept that weaker doesn’t mean anything at the end of the day.

There will always be a PC configuration that will come and leave consoles in the dust, and Nintendo has shown that you can still make magic with less.
 
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Reindeer

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Why so much salt this in thread? "Staggering" part was obviously a response to a discussion on RT. Series X should be significantly more capable when it comes to RT and many people have already said this. Also, it's kinda funny to see people talk about games and sales in a thread about specs and performance, SMH.
 
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For real, I don't think power = performance.

We're thinking about this like it's a PC in a box, that's what XSX thinks at least, but these things cost a fraction the amount of PCs so if you want to play games that would usually take an Alienware for $400, $500 bucks, it'll need to be different from what PCs are all about.

The PS2 was a ground breaking console, so much so that you could barely emulate PS2 games (even on the Vita) for years and years because they had to exist in such a weird-ass architecture. Despite their weirdassity, however, the PS2 is generally (on this forum at least) proposed first in list asking us to consider which console would be the [most memorable] console of the 6th generation.

So with the PS5 they're trying to make the same quantum leap that the PS2 made. Can't the hordes of people who are just gleefully rubbishing it just open their minds a little and, at the very least, decide to wait and see if it'll actually be a game changer?
 

CatLady

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Imagine hounding out real industry tech veterans, and all round respected experts, off a videogame forum trying to regain its former glory. I wonder how many of them were banned, actually i can guess already.
I believe only the one that was the most aggressive caught a 1 week ban and the rest were warned but John was already gone by then. It happened pretty fast and mod action was taken quickly but it was too late.
 

JordanN

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For real, I don't think power = performance.

We're thinking about this like it's a PC in a box, that's what XSX thinks at least, but these things cost a fraction the amount of PCs so if you want to play games that would usually take an Alienware for $400, $500 bucks, it'll need to be different from what PCs are all about.

The PS2 was a ground breaking console, so much so that you could barely emulate PS2 games (even on the Vita) for years and years because they had to exist in such a weird-ass architecture. Despite their weirdassity, however, the PS2 is generally (on this forum at least) proposed first in list asking us to consider which console would be the [most memorable] console of the 6th generation.
Now compare the PS2's graphics to what the Gamecube or Xbox could do...

Although the PS2 did have one advantage the other system's didn't have, which is the insanely high pixel fillrate. But other than that, it was generally weaker.
 
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PocoJoe

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VRS and machine learning are going to kill PS5. Their SSD is already equaled out by having texture compression that is twice as good as Kraken on PS5 (25 % compression vs. 50 %).
Where did you find these numbers, your ass?

PS5 tech reveal(which isnt same as full launch presentation) had numbers 5.5Gb/s raw, 8.8 compressed (average) and up to 22Gb/s.

So how it is now 25% vs 50%? When different data compresses differently, it cant be just one number.


Sounds like xbox fanboy down talk
 

eastwood333

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For a core to run in sync which caches it has to run at a relative clock speed of those caches, because the intersection units are running using the TMU caches they must run at a relative clock to the TMUs caches and therefore the core clock. This is the most likely scenario based on the patent that we know at least the XSX Is using for raytracing.



Just because someone has a good track record doesn't make correct all the time.
Rogame has enough tech knowledge to data mine both consoles,that nobody was able to accomplish.Well he's more credible than a random neogaf user. No offense. And why is sony more focused on demonstrating global illumination where as MS is talking in direct detail about RT? Its not surprising that the more powerful console is more capable of doing RT
 

Hobbygaming

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An ex-guerrilla games developer or NX gamer. Hmmmm, who should we trust here. Ah, the random Youtuber thats right.
This ex-developer is a Xbox guy and is obviously wrong going by the spec sheets, check his Twitter timeline he associates with TimDog and Jez Corden lol
 

LED Guy?

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Former Sony Dev: PS5 and Xbox Series X Power Difference Is Quite Shocking, Several Developers Say

From Wccftech:

In comes a new tweet from a former PlayStation developer, who says to have heard from several developers that Microsoft’s console is the superior console and that the power difference between the Xbox Series X and PS5 is quite shocking. These developers have also said, however, that this doesn’t mean the PS5 won’t be getting great games.

“I’ve chatted to a few devs and they have confirmed the power difference is quite staggering”, ex-Sony developer Chris Grannell wrote. However they have said it doesn’t mean you can’t make good games on the PS5. These fanboys clearly don’t care about that and are massively rattled.”

In an earlier tweet, Grannell also commented on a recent ‘analysis’ from an outlet that claimed that the PS5 will actually end up with more raw computing power due to it removing the audio workload from the CPU and GPU. Instead of going by an analysis, Grannell replied that he has heard differently from the actual developers working on the console.



15% GPU difference isn't "STAGGERING!!".
 
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Gamer79

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Throw all the numbers out there in the world but the results is all that matter in the end. Let's see some game and port comparisons, then we will talk.
 

-kb-

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Rogame has enough tech knowledge to data mine both consoles,that nobody was able to accomplish.Well he's more credible than a random neogaf user. No offense. And why is sony more focused on demonstrating global illumination where as MS is talking in direct detail about RT? Its not surprising that the more powerful console is more capable of doing RT
Literally an appeal to authority, he has no more knowledge then anyone else about the RT solution.

He was responding to a discussion about Ray Tracing, why is that so hard to understand for people?
Because raytracing is also only a 15% difference.

I really dont understand why people cannot explain their side of things here without just throwing the opinion of someone else around, i shown the evidence for my side of things and the responses are always 'someone said this'. Thats not evidence.
 
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Reindeer

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Throw all the numbers out there in the world but the results is all that matter in the end. Let's see some game and port comparisons, then we will talk.
You are in the wrong thread, there are threads to talk about games and sales, this one is about power and performance.
 

molasar

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King is back, nuff said.






Sony devs acknowledges what's packing inside Series X tower..I mean what's new, we all know that no other console will match that, accept it and move on..but pride, ego, and loyalty just cant get passed that.

And look forward to insane looking games on the SeX, starting with Cyberpunk 🤜🔥🤛
But where are they? Is the king naked? And no, CP2077 does not look that great.

 

Reindeer

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Because raytracing is also only a 15% difference.
Because of how demandin Ray Tracing is it becomes much more demanding on hardware with less power so the implication could be much greater than that 15%.
 

eastwood333

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Bullshit.
RT is clock dependent, as everything else.
The more powerful console has more capability at doing RT. No? Are you suggesting the weaker console has the advantage in RT? If so, you have no credibility and can't be taken seriously
 
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Now compare the PS2's graphics to what the Gamecube or Xbox could do...

Although the PS2 did have one advantage the other system's didn't have, which is the insanely high pixel fillrate. But other than that, it was generally weaker.
Oooooh I absolutely agree with that. I always thought PS2 was at the back of that pack... but it also came out earlier, without the benefit of having other consoles doing similar things to improve upon... For whatever that's worth, it's not the case this time, and technology has come a long way since that period~ I think it is, at least, totally possible for things to be done in a different way but still work fine.

I predict that, unless Sony buggered up hugely in which case they'll fully deserve their downfall, I predict that this console will be considered, accepted by all, to be the match of the XSX in terms of performance and game appearance, this time next year. It'll just get there another way. I think there are people out there expecting PS5 to be noticeably pixellated or with noticeably worse draw distance or far detail or whatever... I feel that launch titles on the two consoles are going to be identical.

Also I am anticipating XSX fanboys conceding the high ground on 3D sound with headphones on... Because it's a small, niche advantage.

And let's bare in mind that PS5 hasn't had any footage teased yet... Everyone's just going off comparison of a handful of numbers... Ah well, no sense asking GAF to wait and see I guess~
 

eastwood333

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Literally an appeal to authority, he has no more knowledge then anyone else about the RT solution.



Because raytracing is also only a 15% difference.

I really dont understand why people cannot explain their side of things here without just throwing the opinion of someone else around, i shown the evidence for my side of things and the responses are always 'someone said this'. Thats not evidence.
Where are getting 15% from?
 

TheBreezyBB

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No matter how many biased articles or Devs saying how good XsX is and how bad PS5, even though the difference in TFlops is only 20%, XsX will never ever sell more than PS5.

XsX as was it's predecessors will not have any exclusive games that will make you say damn i want to play this game!
 

psorcerer

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The more powerful console has more capability at doing RT. No? Are you suggesting the weaker console has the advantage in RT? If so, you have no credibility and can't be taken seriously
The advantage in RT is exactly the same as the advantage in ALU: 18%
 
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Reindeer

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This doesnt make sense to me, can you explain it.
Ray Tracing eats up a lot of power and something like having 1.87 tflop less power could mean a big loss in Ray Tracing performance. Series X also has an equivalent of 13 tflops of GPU power reserved for Ray Tracing alone, we don't know how much Ray Tracing hardware there is in PS5 and how it will scale with higher clock speeds.
 
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Bryank75

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@dark10x came back recently and made the stupid mistake of entering the PS5 Safe Space. He got dog-piled by the Sony folks for the egregious sin of DF reporting on the actual PS5 GPU aka the GitHub leak. I'm pretty sure that truly was the last will see John around here, he was treated very badly and he stated he wouldn't be back.

Makes me sad that a small group of people here who get over wrought about their favorite console can run off an industry professional like John, while sniffing fake insider farts. I really liked John & enjoyed his contributions here.
Even though I do think they are a little nicer to Xbox over there, nobody should have taken it out on John. He is a nice guy and we are all subject to our own preference etc.

I always thought it was nice when he dropped in....
 

-kb-

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Ray Tracing eats up a lot of power and something like 1..87 tflop less could make a lot of difference. Series X also has an equivalent of 13 tflops of GPU power reserved for Ray Tracing alone, we don't know how much Ray Tracing hardware there is in PS5 and how it will scale with higher clock speeds on PS5.
The XSX doesn't have 13 TFLOPS of raytracing hardware, it has fixed function hardware that would take 13TFLOPS of general purpose compute to match. The XSX is using the RDNA2 based raytracing from the patent I linked earlier, we 100% know this because the block names in the GitHub leak exactly match the patent.

I suspect because Sony is using the saying base GPU generation (RDNA2.0) that they will have the same raytracing implementation, we also dont know how it scales with high speeds no, but it could certainly scale better then with more cores. Its something we literally dont know at this point so its not worth discussing as itll just go around incircles.

I dont think that itll make that much difference, at worse you'll see slightly less rays depending on how much the ALU is loaded during raytracing.
 
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