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Sports Formula 1 Season 2019 |OT| Sons of Liberty (Media)

hariseldon

Gold Member
Aug 22, 2018
3,538
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When someone pulls that shit on iRacing, and another driver protests it, it can result in a week's suspension or more. It's generally regarded as the most amateur bullshit a driver can do. You check before re-entering. Hell if you pull that shit on a track day you'll be black flagged and asked to leave. These are supposed to be the best drivers around FFS. Vettel is done.
 

Nicktendo_

Neo Member
Oct 30, 2018
27
27
155
Mother Russia
Great race and brilliant result for Renault.

I'm surprised Vettel didn't just get out of the car during the penalty stop and thumb for a ride home. When he pulled that idiotic move into Stroll, I launched up from my couch screaming... not at Vettel and his buffoonery, not at the dangerousness, but at the freaking directors.

"Oh hey, a critical situation that will instantly unfold in any number of ways, the whole race is going to be affected, let's not focus on that and stare at some kid in the fucking crowd instead."
I think given last weekend it was perfectly reasonable to pan away immediately before any impact. Yes, the speed wasn’t the same as the top of the hill after Eau Rouge, but they’re still doing 150 through Ascari. Could have been really nasty and really highlights how much of a brain dead move it was from Vettel. He should sit out the next race in my opinion.
 

Can't decide

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Sep 11, 2018
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I think given last weekend it was perfectly reasonable to pan away immediately before any impact. Yes, the speed wasn’t the same as the top of the hill after Eau Rouge, but they’re still doing 150 through Ascari. Could have been really nasty and really highlights how much of a brain dead move it was from Vettel. He should sit out the next race in my opinion.
I would agree with you about switching the camera if it were an isolated incident. All too many times during an overtake or similar action, the camera changes to some celebrity or crew members in the pit garage or the crowd reacting, leaving us waiting for a replay to fully see what happened.
If they really have to do that, at least stick it in a box in the corner or make it split screen. We tune in to watch what's happening on the track, not on the track side.
 
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dhatt1

Member
Feb 10, 2010
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I would agree with you about switching the camera if it were an isolated incident. All too many times during an overtake or similar action, the camera changes to some celebrity or crew members in the pit garage or the crowd reacting, leaving us waiting for a replay to fully see what happened.
If they really have to do that, at least stick it in a box in the corner or make it split screen. We tune in to watch what's happening on the track, not on the track side.
Agreed 100%.

Do not care for the fcking crowds. Just read the YT comments everyone blasts these directors.
 

Mohonky

Member
Jan 19, 2007
11,393
922
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Yeh that lack of showing Vettel come back onto the track was likely a result of last week, I can't blame them. How Vettel didn't get t-boned I don't know, same with Stroll. That was the accident that claimed Huberts life, then there was another huge crash in F3 at Monza, I believe they were just being cautious.

As to the race, I think LeClerc had that in the bag even if Merc found a way past. On a track like Monza (and same as Spa) those long straights really play into Ferraris hand; it's unreal how much speed that thing has in a straight line. Consistently 3-4 tenths faster, even with slipstream and DRS Hamilton was ever so barely able to pull the Ferrari in much less get close enough to challenge in the braking zone. Ultimately being stuck unable to get that pass done just killed his tyres and even if he did do it eventually, I'm not sure he would have had enough tyres to make the difference in the middle sector to get out enough of a lead that LeClerc wouldn't just sail straight back by again on the straight.

What was interesting though, was the performance deficit between Hamilton to Bottas and LeClerc to Vettel. Bottas is just not a great racing driver. With 8 laps newer tyres, he couldn't even achieve what Hamilton had been doing for 30 laps, which is stick his car up LeClercs behind close enough to put the pressure on. Hamiltons greatest strength is his wheel to wheel racing and relentless pressure but Bottas just seems incapable of either. I mean in Bottas defense, he's being compared to Hamilton who is known for breaking other drivers but he just doesn't have any killer instinct.

Vettel though, jesus. He's a mess. He says his head is still in it, but if thats true, you really have to be asking questions about what he is truly capable of. The mistakes he makes aren't what you expect from a driver at Ferrari, much less one that arrived there with 4 WDC. LeClerc is clearly both the superior driver and the one capable of handling the pressure. I would honestly be very very surprised if Ferrari aren't already looking for alternatives. LeClerc is clearly going to be Ferrari's Number 1 going forward and if I were Vettel I'd very much be trying to get back into that second seat at RB and hope some rose tinted glasses of the success between that partnership garners him some pull.
 

Makariel

Gold Member
Jan 14, 2018
1,804
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Vettel driving into traffic was mindboggling, that should have been a black flag, Stroll doing the exact same shit 2 seconds after he complains about it also should have some consequences. When does Vettels contract expire? I get the feeling that will be his last one.

Well done Charles! Albeit the cutting of the corner was a bit suspicious, but with the speed advantage of the Ferrari on the main straight I think Leclerc would have been able to come back at the Mercedes even if Lewis would have been able to get past. And Lewis was IMO the only one who could have come past. Bottas might be a good driver, but he's no Hamilton, as shown time and time again.
 

ruvikx

Member
Jan 12, 2018
1,188
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Vettel though, jesus. He's a mess. He says his head is still in it, but if thats true, you really have to be asking questions about what he is truly capable of. The mistakes he makes aren't what you expect from a driver at Ferrari, much less one that arrived there with 4 WDC. LeClerc is clearly both the superior driver and the one capable of handling the pressure. I would honestly be very very surprised if Ferrari aren't already looking for alternatives. LeClerc is clearly going to be Ferrari's Number 1 going forward and if I were Vettel I'd very much be trying to get back into that second seat at RB and hope some rose tinted glasses of the success between that partnership garners him some pull.
Leclerc has very little pressure compared to Vettel who is constantly overdriving for xyz messed-up reasons, sometimes his own fault, other times not. Plus his mistakes cost him dearly when others (Hamilton, Leclerc etc.) miss their braking zones, drive off track & nothing happens. That "no pressure" will change now & we'll see where Leclerc goes from here because instead of the "young rookie taking on the 4x world champ", he'll be the established Ferrari star expected to deliver a title challenge next year. Verstappen has also yet to face that sort of pressure. That's why it's too early to talk about titles or whatnot. As for Vettel, I don't know whether his contract could be severed in a "mutually agreed" manner but if I was him I'd give Red Bull a call & ask whether the second seat is available for next season. Ferrari is going to become unbearable for him now that the Italian media & Tifosi have the knives out. Fortunately for Vettel Singapore is next, i.e. a circuit not suited to Ferarri's strengths, therefor both cars should return to some relative anonymity.

Well done Charles! Albeit the cutting of the corner was a bit suspicious, but with the speed advantage of the Ferrari on the main straight I think Leclerc would have been able to come back at the Mercedes even if Lewis would have been able to get past. And Lewis was IMO the only one who could have come past. Bottas might be a good driver, but he's no Hamilton, as shown time and time again.
The Mercedes was a lot quicker in the turns at that point in the race ergo either car (Ham or Bottas) would have opened up a sufficient gap to make Leclerc lose ground & the DRS range. Bottas though is shit, IMO. People can point at Vettel's errors & have a laugh, but what Bottas did yesterday was borderline amateurish, i.e. as soon as he was 1.5 seconds or thereabouts behind Leclerc & about to get within DRS range, he made loads of small errors which made any attempt to overtake impossible. He's just constantly useless.
 

DarkestHour

Member
Oct 27, 2015
1,103
215
355
Vettel driving into traffic was mindboggling, that should have been a black flag, Stroll doing the exact same shit 2 seconds after he complains about it also should have some consequences. When does Vettels contract expire? I get the feeling that will be his last one.

Well done Charles! Albeit the cutting of the corner was a bit suspicious, but with the speed advantage of the Ferrari on the main straight I think Leclerc would have been able to come back at the Mercedes even if Lewis would have been able to get past. And Lewis was IMO the only one who could have come past. Bottas might be a good driver, but he's no Hamilton, as shown time and time again.
I'm fairly sure Vettel is checked out and doesn't even care anymore.
 

Fox Mulder

Member
Jul 1, 2009
17,831
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Greensboro, NC
I'm fairly sure Vettel is checked out and doesn't even care anymore.
I don’t think that yet, but it’s probably time to move on from the team like Alonso did. Vettel went there in 2015 to be the Ferrari hero and just hasn’t got it done.

He’s even at 9 penalty points on his license now with error after error.
 
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Breakage

Member
Mar 3, 2014
6,451
3,406
565
Vettel should try to get back into Red Bull. I think he was happier being among Brits. I just don't think he fits into Ferrari's “Italian” culture and it is that disconnection that is being reflected on the track.
 
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xrnzaaas

Member
Dec 9, 2013
8,064
832
535
Williams is such a shitshow, Robert was ready on new tyres in Q1, but his engineer falsely told him to slow down because of crossing the start-finish line too late. It's like the engineer is extremely incompetent or they're very cautious about Robert not performing better than George... which wouldn't be that big of a conspiracy theory. It's Robert's seventh race with the same engine and he's also got old suspension.
 
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ruvikx

Member
Jan 12, 2018
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Vettel needed that.
Yes he did. That's how champions react after a humiliation (which Monza was for Vettel, i.e. probably his worst weekend as an F1 driver). They bounce back & win. Leclerc is very quick but Vettel made the strategy call work & his overtaking moves were really good.
 

xrnzaaas

Member
Dec 9, 2013
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Singapore GP is an absolute shitshow and need to be replaced
Nah, it's a cool track. There's always a lot of action on the track unlike in the French or Russian GP, plenty of (safety car) drama and the extreme conditions in Singapore are a nice test for all the drivers to maintain full concentration for 2 hours.
 
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IAmLegendary

Neo Member
Aug 18, 2019
40
55
135
No way! We have enough samey-looking tracks already, Singapore needs to stay.
Unpopular opinion but i think most street circuit like this are ugly and boring man

Limited visibility, small room to overtake and very prone to multiple crash

I pretty much enjoyed Formula One on a real track
 
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Makariel

Gold Member
Jan 14, 2018
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Unpopular opinion but i think most street circuit like this are ugly and boring man
Boring? Have we watched the same race yesterday? ;) I think that is a fairly popular opinion you have there, but I still think we have enough purpose built tracks on the calendar. Removing Monaco and Singapore would make the whole season much more boring to watch.

What I like about street circuits: one mistake and they are in the wall. No discussion about "track limits", as long as you still have all your wheels attached you were within limits (y)
 

IAmLegendary

Neo Member
Aug 18, 2019
40
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135
Boring? Have we watched the same race yesterday? ;) I think that is a fairly popular opinion you have there, but I still think we have enough purpose built tracks on the calendar. Removing Monaco and Singapore would make the whole season much more boring to watch.

What I like about street circuits: one mistake and they are in the wall. No discussion about "track limits", as long as you still have all your wheels attached you were within limits (y)
Add to that a multiple car collision where its dificult to avoid each other running at 300 mph

Theres so much potential disaster in circuit like this im glad so far it didnt happened

Theres a section in Baku in which its so narrow that if a colision happened there it will block the entire path
 
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AlphaMale

Gold Member
Apr 21, 2015
217
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410
Decent race yesterday. Ferrari needed the 1-2 and Vettel needed a win. Too bad Verstappen wasn't able to challenge. Also, I love the aggressive overtakes from RIcciardo. Too bad he suffered a puncher as a result. Otherwise, great racing!
 

xrnzaaas

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Dec 9, 2013
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Add to that a multiple car collision where its dificult to avoid each other running at 300 mph

Theres so much potential disaster in circuit like this im glad so far it didnt happened

Theres a section in Baku in which its so narrow that if a colision happened there it will block the entire path
A disaster can happen anywhere, this year it happened in Spa, last time it happened in Suzuka. Besides with modern safety standards it's much easier to issue an immediate VSC or red flag.

F1 city circuits have been delivering good races in the past years with the exception of Monaco. They should definitely stay imo.
 
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ruvikx

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Jan 12, 2018
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A disaster can happen anywhere, this year it happened in Spa, last time it happened in Suzuka. Besides with modern safety standards it's much easier to issue an immediate VSC or red flag.

F1 city circuits have been delivering good races in the past years with the exception of Monaco. They should definitely stay imo.
People seem to be using the extreme tyre management in Singapore as a reason to hate the circuit, but that also happens everywhere else - it just isn't publicized as much nor used quite as ostensibly as a race strategy (i.e. with Leclerc deliberately slowing the field in order to prevent Hamilton from pitting early & undercutting him). Personally speaking I loved yesterday's race & it was constantly tense throughout (i.e. one small mistake in a street circuit has dire consequences). The French gp was the low point this season (turgid stuff) but the rest has been good.
 

AlphaMale

Gold Member
Apr 21, 2015
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For a street circuit, it has way more overtaking than, say, Monaco, which makes it more interesting.

Looking forward to Sochi!
 

Monsterkillah

Member
Aug 12, 2018
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Amazing Mercedes still told Bottas to held back to give his place to Hamilton despite Lewis is 96 points ahead of his Ferrari rival Leclerc

To show you how bleak it is Bottas is actually Hamilton closest rival and yet they told him to held back

Like seriously you still need team orders for that?

Mercedes are dirty scumbag for killing the competition

Is there anyone here still like this team
 
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Makariel

Gold Member
Jan 14, 2018
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Like seriously you still need team orders for that?
I find it funny how Mercedes used to critizise Ferrari for using team orders, and now they are the first to straight up tell Bottas to step on the brakes. Meanwhile at Ferrari, they just ask Leclerc to please not crash the car when trying to overtake.
 

AlphaMale

Gold Member
Apr 21, 2015
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I find it funny how Mercedes used to critizise Ferrari for using team orders, and now they are the first to straight up tell Bottas to step on the brakes. Meanwhile at Ferrari, they just ask Leclerc to please not crash the car when trying to overtake.
But in the interview with Bottas after the race, he said there are "rules in the team" that dictated his requirement to slow down, rather than an actual team order. By his facial expressions as he was saying this, you could tell it was BS and he was pissed.
I guess a condition for signing him for 2020 was that he is a definite #2 (support) driver.
 

xrnzaaas

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Dec 9, 2013
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Can they deliver engines for so many teams in 2021? Or is Williams going to have to go back to working with Renault? (aka become super shit box)
 
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Silentium

Member
Nov 15, 2010
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Renault needs to step up and fund the team + engine programme properly. The marginal cost increase for a fully funded programme (say ~$150/200M additional) vs. the likely marketing benefit from better results is a no brainer. That's the French for you I guess.
 

Lionel Richie

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Jun 22, 2014
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Its too early to write off hamilton and vettel

leclerc sometimes are still prone to mistakes like Monaco and Germany this year
Yeah, Hamilton and Seb are still the main dogs in the category and should continue to be so for the immediate future. I wouldn't mind to see Leclerc and Max on equal grounds once those 2 slow down, they still mess up from time to time but they're really good all around.
 

Can't decide

Member
Sep 11, 2018
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The gaps between LeClerc/Vettel and Hamilton/Bottas are as telling as ever. They were huge, I'd be embarrassed and ashamed, they don't have an excuse like Kubica does.
 

Breakage

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Mar 3, 2014
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So a Merc 1-2. Trust Ferrari to mess up. Didn't watch the race, but heard Ferrari asked Vettel to let Leclerc past during the initials laps of the race. Thought that was strange.
 

xrnzaaas

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Dec 9, 2013
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I don't want to start a conspiracy theory, but Williams retiring Kubica's far feels like a fuck you response to his announcement about leaving the team (and leaving them in a much worse position to negotiate with Latifi). They even made it look like a trap - told him to pit and then told him about the retirement when he was in the pitlane (plus without any explanation).

Or they really really lack spare parts. Anyway I wonder how many seasons they can keep doing this before they run out of sponsors and pay drivers.
 
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Shagger

Banned
Mar 23, 2019
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So a Merc 1-2. Trust Ferrari to mess up. Didn't watch the race, but heard Ferrari asked Vettel to let Leclerc past during the initials laps of the race. Thought that was strange.
Here is what happened as far as I know.

Leclerc was on pole, Hamilton 2nd and Vettel 3rd directly behnd Leclerc. This track runs clockwise with long run to a righthand turn one with the pole and 3rd grid spots on the left hand side of the track. Ferrari hatch a plan for Vettel to get past Hamilton. Leclerc would give Vettel a tow on the back of Leclerc's car. This would require coordination between the two Ferrari's as Leclerc would have stay on the outsid line of the track down to turn one as long as possible before breaking for the corner and allowing Vettel to slip into 2nd place behind him.

The trouble with the plan was it worked a little to well because Vettel got an absolute beast of a start and slipped pasted Hamilton before getting into Leclerc's slipstream. Once he had the tow from Leclerc's car, he used it dive past his teammate instead. Ferrari wanted to swap the drivers back round because Leclerc only lost the lead to Vettel because Leclerc kept up his end of the bargain.

This all went tits up for Ferrari when Vettel's car broke down bringing out a virtual safety car and both Mercedes took this opportunity to pit and come out ahead of Leclerc who had already pitted earlier in the race.
 
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