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[nib95]

It does, I didn't say it doesn't, I just said that I like how it behaves in GT5, which in my opinion better conveys what a car is going through. You can see in the 60fps clips how as you turn in GT5 the car tilts to the outside, and in Forza 3 it's harder to see it.

http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_forza_motorsport_3_audi_r8_hood_view_60_fps-13046_en.html

http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_gran_turismo_5_gamescom_hood_view_60_fps-12581_en.html

I'm a huge fan of both games, but I've said this from day 1. I even mentioned it to Che in the hopes they improve it some more with F3. The best test for it is if you play both GT5 and F2/F3 with the sound completely off using a wheel and the interior view (road cam for F2). It's much easier to tell what your vehicle is doing based just off the visual clue's in GT5P. The body roll and suspension feedback seems to be a tad more sensitive and responsive.

But both games have their advantages and disadvantages.

 

[+Aliken+]

It does, I didn't say it doesn't, I just said that I like how it behaves in GT5, which in my opinion better conveys what a car is going through. You can see in the 60fps clips how as you turn in GT5 the car tilts to the outside, and in Forza 3 it's harder to see it.

http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_forza_motorsport_3_audi_r8_hood_view_60_fps-13046_en.html

http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_gran_turismo_5_gamescom_hood_view_60_fps-12581_en.html

Funnily enough in my personal view the dipping in GT5 feels exaggerated and it is one of the things that puts me off GT games.

Ok in real life you do feel the G-force in a car however your eyes do a good job in smoothing the effect of the car making it less apparent.

As a result what I see on the screen should simulate what a see in real life not try to simulate G-Force which as a result can be felt more than seen.
There is no way to do this in a video game except with one of these:
http://www.gtplanet.net/gt5-prologues-motion-simulator-at-gamescom/.

And adding such a forced effect I think makes the game less real.

 

[nib95]

In real life, cars respond a heck of a lot more than they do in either GT5P or F3, so i have to disagree with you on the point that GT5P exaggerates it. Imo, it doesn't showcase the feedback well enough. In reality the cockpit view of these cars would not only see stark suspension/body roll feedback, but they'd be shaking about from all the torque and stress. At least that is, if you're in a high performance vehicle. In which case even flooring it would see greater dips in suspension and ride height (though I believe both games do show case that to an extent?).

 

[Shining Sunshine]

Well, you can even do this in real-life.

I was about to say that. Realistically, if you're going so fast grinding against the guardrail, you can hit those speeds and maintain them. The car did slowdown from 200 to 150ish.

This on the other hand...

Friction seems nonexistent when you roll over.

Edit: I couldn't find the original gif...

 

[jakonovski]

I guess I have to buy a 250Gb PS3 Slim for Xmas, because this thread makes me want to make an in-depth comparison of GT5P to Forza3.

 

[jakonovski]

Friction seems nonexistent when you roll over.

I'm not sure I understand this. What friction exactly? What I'm seeing is static friction kicking in and rocking the car so it rolls over.

 

[eso76]

weird, you would think it would all be using same physics.

they do, it's just that racing cars which are born with a lower riding height and stiffer suspension look accurate, since they're not supposed to wobble and lean too much.
Lower class production cars could show their weight on suspensions a little more.

 

[bj00rn_]

Friction seems nonexistent when you roll over.

AFAIK (Not sure, don't have the demo here) there is an option to use the controller to flip the car back over in Forza 3, right..?

 

[ResidentDante]

I guess I have to buy a 250Gb PS3 Slim for Xmas, because this thread makes me want to make an in-depth comparison of GT5P to Forza3.

That won't help you, because if you list any complaints about GT5P, the GTboys will simply say that "it's fixed in GT5" (no matter what you say, it's "fixed in GT5"). A game which is hopefully released before Skynet goes online and the robots take over the world.

 

[Apex]

Anyway, if you want to take a car show seriously in the UK, it has to be Fifth Gear. A BTCC Champion (Jason Plato) and 2 other racing drivers (Tiff Needell and Vicki Butler-Henderson). Alas I haven't seen if they have tried either Forza or Gran Turismo but if they did, I would trust them far more than the great TV presenters but non racers that Hammond, Clarkson and May are.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/driving/features/article739669.ece?token=null&offset=0

 

[+Aliken+]

In real life, cars respond a heck of a lot more than they do in either GT5P or F3, so i have to disagree with you on the point that GT5P exaggerates it. Imo, it doesn't showcase the feedback well enough. In reality the cockpit view of these cars would not only see stark suspension/body roll feedback, but they'd be shaking about from all the torque and stress. At least that is, if you're in a high performance vehicle. In which case even flooring it would see greater dips in suspension and ride height (though I believe both games do show case that to an extent?).

Wait, you don't see what I mean.
You are right that they do respond more but as you are in the car your eyes, therefore what you actually see, do a good job in smoothening out the G-forze effect on the car while breaking and turning.

As for vibrations that's a different story and you are right, it is missing completely in both games in the cockpit view and the eyes have a harder time dampening the vibrations. Hell it is possible to get a blurred vision when driving High End racing cars and high speeds.

 

[SamBishop]

Sam, this thread is pure comedy, come on!

Sorry, I've been stuck with work lately but... it's a concentration of everything that is wrong with GAF as a collective, and creating the topic was both a blatant coaxing of stupid console warrior shit and a theater for one-system fucks to.. ohhhhh... Aw crap, I just got it.

It's still a goddamn cesspool and does no favors to help this place to buck the trend of being a vacuum of intelligent discourse or understanding that, yes, people can dig games on competing systems without being offended shitheels.

Fuck you, Bish -- we may share a name (even if mine is real), but you've only made some of the worst parts of this forum a showpiece for why this place is cesspool. I understand the reasoning behind trying to concentrate all that "rah rah my game is better than yours" sentiment in one place, but it's far more productive to just ban IPs upon first infraction. Threads like this do more to further the hilariously retarded console wars than they would ever localize an infection.

Talk with the other mods. Enforce the idea of keeping discourse intelligent. And while you're at it, outlaw pure emoticon replies, enforce the use of grammar and raise this place to a hotbed for both breaking news and replies that actually add to a conversation. It's fucking ridiculous how much white noise this place generates in replies to topics. Threads like this are a blight on the entire industry.

 

[DangerousDave]

That won't help you, because if you list any complaints about GT5P, the GTboys will simply say that "it's fixed in GT5" (no matter what you say, it's "fixed in GT5"). A game which is hopefully released before Skynet goes online and the robots take over the world.

Well, it's more than 2 years from GT5P. So I dare to think that there are some improvements with GT5P in the programming part (not only in number of cars-tracks). But we won't be able to compare it correctly until March. Before this, we're comparing a new full game with a 30$ 2yo game.

 

[cyberheater]

And while you're at it, outlaw pure emoticon replies, enforce the use of grammar ....

I wholeheartedly agree with this bit. I too get sick of the one word or one picture replies. They add nothing to the discussion and take up my bandwidth.

 

[shuyin_]

Sorry, I've been stuck with work lately but... it's a concentration of everything that is wrong with GAF as a collective, and creating the topic was both a blatant coaxing of stupid console warrior shit and a theater for one-system fucks to.. ohhhhh... Aw crap, I just got it.

It's still a goddamn cesspool and does no favors to help this place to buck the trend of being a vacuum of intelligent discourse or understanding that, yes, people can dig games on competing systems without being offended shitheels.

Fuck you, Bish -- we may share a name (even if mine is real), but you've only made some of the worst parts of this forum a showpiece for why this place is cesspool. I understand the reasoning behind trying to concentrate all that "rah rah my game is better than yours" sentiment in one place, but it's far more productive to just ban IPs upon first infraction. Threads like this do more to further the hilariously retarded console wars than they would ever localize an infection.

Talk with the other mods. Enforce the idea of keeping discourse intelligent. And while you're at it, outlaw pure emoticon replies, enforce the use of grammar and raise this place to a hotbed for both breaking news and replies that actually add to a conversation. It's fucking ridiculous how much white noise this place generates in replies to topics. Threads like this are a blight on the entire industry.

My friend, chill. Really.. you take this way too seriously than you should.
The only part i agree with is your last paragraph. For the rest of your post you use an enraged tone that doesn't elevate you past the level of the above posters that jump at each other calling themselves trolls or fanboys or whatever.

 

[eso76]

know what ? i was almost starting to convince myself that cars in forza looked hideous, but after booting the demo again i have to say they actually look very good from every 'typical' angle. Like in fm2, some kinds of 'paint' look much better than others, but the dark grey metallic ferrari i was using yesterday looked absolutely fantastic and as realistic as *some* gt5 shots *at times*, while obviously not as detailed.
Yeah, some will laugh at this but there you have it.

Something that is too often overlooked is scenery; i would really like to be able to capture a screen without having to take pics of the tv, but most of the time what prevents Fm3 from looking 'photorealistic' is not the cars themselves.
Of course non-metallic paints are also to blame, since they don't look nearly as accurate. Especially when in the shadow, where they are supposed to lose a lot of saturation, which they don't.

sorry, yeah, spending so much time analyzing my games sounds rather sad.

 

[SamBishop]

I wholeheartedly agree with this bit. I too get sick of the one word or one picture replies. They add nothing to the discussion and take up my bandwidth.

My friend, chill. Really.. you take this way too seriously than you should.
The only part i agree with is your last paragraph. For the rest of your post you use an enraged tone that doesn't elevate you past the level of the above posters that jump at each other calling themselves trolls or fanboys or whatever.

If nothing else, I feel a sense of comfort that not everyone is happy with posting a string of mouse clicks and one word replies.

shuyin_, I promise you I'm not taking anything seriously. I've graduated so far beyond the point of getting upset about the general chatter here that at this point it's the kind of stuff I just kinda point and laugh at -- until it's made into a thread like this.

It just seems like an excuse to openly troll a game -- and as much as I figure some may see me as a pro-Sony person, the stuff that happened recently between games apparently became reason to rip on a game mega-PS3 fans will never own just because they can't play their sim for another six months.

Thanks, though, guys, for making me feel better about hopes for standards with posts. I know it won't be as ever-refreshing in terms of what's added, but asking people to actually contribute to the thread with discussion-worthy posts would mean they become bits of conversation rather than a race to regurgitate memes and gifs.

 

[Cheeto]

:lol

 

[bishoptl]

Fuck you, Bish

Hello!

-- we may share a name (even if mine is real), but you've only made some of the worst parts of this forum a showpiece for why this place is cesspool. I understand the reasoning behind trying to concentrate all that "rah rah my game is better than yours" sentiment in one place, but it's far more productive to just ban IPs upon first infraction. Threads like this do more to further the hilariously retarded console wars than they would ever localize an infection.

There are other elements in play here that you're not privy to.

 

[TheHeretic]

There are other elements in play here that you're not privy to.

???

 

[Raist]

There are other elements in play here that you're not privy to.

Moneyhats? It's always the moneyhats. Wouldn't know from whom though.

 

[SamBishop]

Hello!


There are other elements in play here that you're not privy to.

Heya, buddy!

[edit] Gonna err on the side of things being nebulous as an indicator of no need to pursue things here further. If a PM shows up at some point, I'll perhaps know better, and if not, I'll know I was a bit out of my place. Still hopeful for that last paragraph about enforcement of better discourse, though.

And I still hate the idea of this thread...

[edit]

Moneyhats? It's always the moneyhats. Wouldn't know from whom though.

C'mon, man, that doesn't help. I retract my backseat modding and ask only that people strive to avoid lolling it up and go for proper responses to stuff rather than recycling catchphrases and one-word (or emote) replies. Y'know, while suppressing the irrational hate/feelings of superiority that comes from liking one franchise over another.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Hello!


There are other elements in play here that you're not privy to.

Hahaha, you're making a list. :lol

 

[SamBishop]

Hahaha, you're making a list. :lol

Next event he's at, I'll be sipping a drink and suddenly realize there's a shiv slipping into my side and a gruff "shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" as I shuffle off this mortal coil.

 

[Raist]

C'mon, man, that doesn't help. I retract my backseat modding and ask only that people strive to avoid lolling it up and go for proper responses to stuff rather than recycling catchphrases and one-word (or emote) replies. Y'know, while suppressing the irrational hate/feelings of superiority that comes from liking one franchise over another.

Well I dunno man. While an intelligent discussion comparing FM3 and GT5 could be interesting, when all is said and done I think it's neither conceivable, nor would that be of any use anyway. Not with such a huge flagship PS franchise (which is probably the biggest one) and its direct competitor, not when official reps do their best to make shit hit the fan, and probably not on GAF.
It would be like expecting a reasonable discussion between Manchester and Barcelona fans (random examples, I don't give a shit about football).

So if the only thing this thread brings is avoiding to have the official threads torn down to pieces by these kind of posts, I'd say it wasn't a bad idea at all after all.

 

[Melfice7]

know what ? i was almost starting to convince myself that cars in forza looked hideous, but after booting the demo again i have to say they actually look very good from every 'typical' angle

That happens with every game, the more you play the more you adapt even if it's an ugly game

 

[chubigans]

Sorry, I've been stuck with work lately but... it's a concentration of everything that is wrong with GAF as a collective, and creating the topic was both a blatant coaxing of stupid console warrior shit and a theater for one-system fucks to.. ohhhhh... Aw crap, I just got it.

It's still a goddamn cesspool and does no favors to help this place to buck the trend of being a vacuum of intelligent discourse or understanding that, yes, people can dig games on competing systems without being offended shitheels.

Fuck you, Bish -- we may share a name (even if mine is real), but you've only made some of the worst parts of this forum a showpiece for why this place is cesspool. I understand the reasoning behind trying to concentrate all that "rah rah my game is better than yours" sentiment in one place, but it's far more productive to just ban IPs upon first infraction. Threads like this do more to further the hilariously retarded console wars than they would ever localize an infection.

Talk with the other mods. Enforce the idea of keeping discourse intelligent. And while you're at it, outlaw pure emoticon replies, enforce the use of grammar and raise this place to a hotbed for both breaking news and replies that actually add to a conversation. It's fucking ridiculous how much white noise this place generates in replies to topics. Threads like this are a blight on the entire industry.

You're absolutely wrong for one reason.

This thread was made to clean up the absolutely horrid discussion threads of Forza 3 and Gran Turismo 5, both of which would have a page of endless bickering for every 3 pages or so.

Since this thread was created, both F3 and GT5 threads have been clean and wonderful to participate in.

Mission accomplished.

 

[Thetallywacker]

I'm not at all important in anyway to what mods do with the forums. So can I get PM messages of intent to what's going on. I want to feel important like Sam.

 

[chubigans]

Yeah, if Sam is important enough to get a PM then I am too!

bish (the cool one), I demand you secretly PM everyone in this thread and let us know what's really going on.

 

[Esch]

ask only that people strive to avoid lolling it up and go for proper responses to stuff rather than recycling catchphrases and one-word (or emote)

:lol

 

[XiaNaphryz]

There are other elements in play here that you're not privy to.

I knew it!

 

[m0dus]

That happens with every game, the more you play the more you adapt even if it's an ugly game

Yeah, no. Why don't you prove it by playing YARIS until it looks 'good'.

Assuming, of course, you dig out your eyeballs after the first hour or so.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Hahaha, you're making a list. :lol

 

[-viper-]

Sorry, I've been stuck with work lately but... it's a concentration of everything that is wrong with GAF as a collective, and creating the topic was both a blatant coaxing of stupid console warrior shit and a theater for one-system fucks to.. ohhhhh... Aw crap, I just got it.

It's still a goddamn cesspool and does no favors to help this place to buck the trend of being a vacuum of intelligent discourse or understanding that, yes, people can dig games on competing systems without being offended shitheels.

Fuck you, Bish -- we may share a name (even if mine is real), but you've only made some of the worst parts of this forum a showpiece for why this place is cesspool. I understand the reasoning behind trying to concentrate all that "rah rah my game is better than yours" sentiment in one place, but it's far more productive to just ban IPs upon first infraction. Threads like this do more to further the hilariously retarded console wars than they would ever localize an infection.

Talk with the other mods. Enforce the idea of keeping discourse intelligent. And while you're at it, outlaw pure emoticon replies, enforce the use of grammar and raise this place to a hotbed for both breaking news and replies that actually add to a conversation. It's fucking ridiculous how much white noise this place generates in replies to topics. Threads like this are a blight on the entire industry.

Chill out, it's only an internet forum.

 

[chubigans]

Awesome, just got my PM.

If you didnt' get a PM, you're obviously not elitez enough.

 

[[Nintex]]

Sounds like Bish is going to do nuclear tests on this topic. I wonder if some are editting their posts furiously.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Chill out, it's only an internet forum.

I'm sure that will be a strong defense for whatever the mods have planned. :lol

 

[-viper-]

Awesome, just got my PM.

If you didnt' get a PM, you're obviously not elitez enough.

this is a fake photoshop. i can tell from ze pixelz.

and the comic sans font.

 

[SmokyDave]

Enforce the idea of keeping discourse intelligent. And while you're at it, outlaw pure emoticon replies, enforce the use of grammar and raise this place to a hotbed for both breaking news and replies that actually add to a conversation.

My hero. Although I neither agree nor disagree with the rest of the post (because this thread did do it's job to be fair) this bit is music to my ears.

Anybody that truly cared about either / both of these games recognised this thread for what it was straight away.

 

[Firewire]

I wonder what bishoptl is up to. I feel like starting some rumors. :lol

 

[mckmas8808]

I wholeheartedly agree with this bit. I too get sick of the one word or one picture replies. They add nothing to the discussion and take up my bandwidth.

It makes GAF, well GAF. I like intelligent discussing too, but sometimes its also good to have fun.

That's what this thread is for.

 

[Cat in the Hat]

Sounds like Bish is going to do nuclear tests on this topic. I wonder if some are editting their posts furiously.

Wouldn't help I don't think. Writing names as the thread moves seems easier to do than reading the trash again.

 

[Doc Evils]

this is a fake photoshop. i can tell from ze pixelz.

and the comic sans font.

no wayz.

 

[speedpop]

It makes GAF, well GAF. I like intelligent discussing too, but sometimes its also good to have fun.

That's what this thread is for.

Problem is that these days there is a higher popularity of posters therefore a higher chance of complete idiots, and further shows how threads are massive compared to what old threads like this used to be. Some old comparison threads would reach 10-20 pages max. This one will hit 200+ pages by the time GT5 gets released.

 

[F#A#Oo]

I'm not saying you're definitely wrong (F3 might be a better game, sim-wise than GT5, don't know). But even so, since PD is currently still working on GT5 and they especially said they want to upgrade the physics engine, what you said recommends you as a troll.

It's not a question of what if's and all of this. If we're talking right now at present at this very moment. There is a clear and true gap between the two series.

The onus is on PD and has been so since the original Forza was released to prove they can do better gameplay then Turn 10.

We didn't see the improvements in GTHD nor in Prologue...so what makes people so confident that they can somehow pull through on the release? It's wishful thinking is what it is and the current precedent PD has set is that the improvements with gameplay will be incremental at best.

It's not trolling to say Forza 3 has better gameplay or physics then GT...I'm a massive GT fan but I'm not delusional nor do I put this expectation on PD to make the next step with GT in terms of physics.

You can even see it in the way the games are presented and talked about by the developers and publishers themselves...the Turn 10 and Microsoft Staff will talk about the physics and the various things which will happen if you do X, Y and Z. The PD and Sony PR is almost always car porn for people to gush at...

For me personally though I still find GT to be a more fun game though...even if Forza is the better sim. I prefer the career mode for example how the licenses are gained etc I find the U.I is also better and more stylish and friendly. Maybe it's just that I grew up with the series so I'm use to the U.I.

 

[Firewire]

Problem is that these days there is a higher popularity of posters therefore a higher chance of complete idiots, and further shows how threads are massive compared to what old threads like this used to be. Some old comparison threads would reach 10-20 pages max. This one will hit 200+ pages by the time GT5 gets released.

meh, this one is already dieing a slow death.

I think bish is just taking down names of the obvious trolls on both sides and if they pop into either the official F3 or GT5 thread when those games release they get an auto permaban.

 

[Forsete]

Best.. GIF.. ever.

 

[Woz]

We didn't see the improvements in GTHD nor in Prologue...

Oh, I've seen improvement in GT5P, small, but I've seen them.

 

[beast786]

I would like an oppurtunity just to say

B.E.Y.O.N.D

 

[spwolf]

We didn't see the improvements in GTHD nor in Prologue...

what?