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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35

F#A#Oo

Banned
spwolf said:
between GT4 and GT5 Prologue in driving physics? Standard model is already better than GT4 and Pro physics are even better... you need to look at GT5P threads from that time.

Great way to dodge the question.

The fact that you can't actually tell me the improvements just from memory/experience (if you improve stuff people notice) is enough to say that the experience has not changed all that much and is as I said "incremental" at best.

People who played GT5 at the recent gaming events couldn't even feel any discernible difference. So I don't know how this "Oh wait till GT5 drops" arguement is still standing. It should be more "wait till GT6" but that is indeed for another thread.
 

K' Dash

Member
dark10x said:
You do realize that there are CRTs capable of resolutions higher than 1080, yes?

High-end CRTs are fantastic displays that still trump LCDs in many areas.

Heavy as hell too, I had one myself and they are EXCELLENT HD displays.
 

Yoritomo

Member
mujun said:
Before you ignore me is your name a play on yaritomo?

It was a joke. And no. Grandmother told me she had some tangential relation to the Seiwa Genji Clan through her family so it's been my handle or part of my handle for 20 odd years now.
 

tinfoilhatman

all of my posts are my avatar
Has PD or TT shared the info regarding how often they are sampling for physics? TT shared it in FM2 and it was like 300x a second or something crazy like that.

Would be cool if both devs would share this info, would be revealing as to how the actual physics\handling models compare.

To me there's no comparison, with the screenshots we have available the cars in GT5 look head and shoulders above FM3.

Personally I've always been more interested in the tracks\environments than the cars and I hate racing games that take place in urban environments but either way I"ll download demos of both games to se for myself.

Right now for me it's

GT5 better graphics(overall)+Better car selection

FM3 better environments+more realistic physics\collisions\crashes(until it's proved differently)
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
K' Dash said:
Heavy as hell too, I had one myself and they are EXCELLENT HD displays.
That's pretty much one of the main reasons they're not the defacto standard everyone gets - size and weight.
 

Piggus

Member
How exactly are people coming to conclusions on the whole thing about physics and handling? Just because something "feels" good doesn't mean it's realistic. You have to have something to compare it to. So what would that be? Real life? PC sims? How many of you saying Forza's physics or GT5's physics are "better" than the other because you actually have racing experience?
 
Why Interfectum and FortunateSon stopped posting? WTF happened here?


EDIT: Read last page. Yeah, Bish's post and Chubigans' photoshop killed this thread.
 
D'ultimate said:
So...Who won?


The little guy:




Flawless victory.
 

RSTEIN

Comics, serious business!
Piggus said:
How exactly are people coming to conclusions on the whole thing about physics and handling? Just because something "feels" good doesn't mean it's realistic. You have to have something to compare it to. So what would that be? Real life? PC sims? How many of you saying Forza's physics or GT5's physics are "better" than the other because you actually have racing experience?

Well, that's the problem. As far as I know, none of us here are racing around in anything. Doesn't matter if it's a Miata, a 355, or a Le Mans racer. Nobody here has the experience necessary to really provide a concrete review of each game's physics.

However, we can look to three things:

1) How many calculations is each game doing per second and what exactly is each game calculating?
2) What is the opinion of professional drivers and hardcore sim enthusiasts who have played each game?
3) Which game "feels" better? While we may not have racing experience, we have an understanding of basic stuff like grip, acceleration, understeer, braking, etc.

I don't have any technical documents or links handy (perhaps someone can link to them) but if I remember correctly Forza 3 is indeed doing more calculations on the fly (at 360 hz). But more calculations doesn't mean better physics if it ain't calculating the right things.

Each game has been tested by professional racers. Some paid, some not. I've heard glowing reviews about both. Both dev teams have worked with real racing teams and professional tuners to nail down the physics.

For me, personally, Forza 3 feels better. This is totally 100% subjective. I think the game does a better job of giving input to the player. I think the game gives you a better sense of the relationship between acceleration, grip and braking. You feel more connected to the road. However, this may or may not mean it's a more realistic depiction of real racing physics. Indeed, it could be more fun becuase it isn't restricted by as many real world limitations.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
mclaren777 said:
I've been part of the beta for months and it's a fantastic game. Unfortunately, however, it probably won't be released in the States. :(
Good thing there's no region locking then, right?
 

Hanmik

Member
I just went to the danish gaming site Gamereactor.. they have a new comparison up and running.. so here we go.. its Forza2 vs. Forza 3.







 

Interfectum

Gold Member
Hanmik said:
I just wnet to the dnaish gaming site.. they have a new comparison up and running.. so here we go.. its Forza2 vs. Forza 4.

http://i36.tinypic.com/107kgur.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/2rdi7vb.jpg

http://i35.tinypic.com/142r4mv.jpg

http://i38.tinypic.com/f5mz7.jpg

Amusing to think that over the last 2 years all we've heard in the official Forza thread is

'how did Turn 10 do it'

'the difference is almost generational'

'Turn 10 are gods'

etc.

and that's because all Turn 10 was feeding the public were fake screens. From what I've seen when playing the game even the menu models don't match the models in the fake screens.
 
I'm not surprised that the tracks in the comparison look mostly the same. As far as I know, these are ones on the second disc which were just thrown in straight from Forza 2.
 
Are those ingame? Forza 3 doesn't look like that. I'll say it's not on GTs level, but those screens are some serious bull, F3 does not look that bad. Post some screens with fairness please.
 
Interfectum said:
From what I've seen when playing the game even the menu models don't match the models in the fake screens.

Well, you don't need to go overboard here.

Anyhow, why are you even bothering to play Forza when you clearly dislike the graphics so much that it's actually making you write so much hate about it? Just pop in GT5P and play that happily and forget Forza 3 even exists :)
 
The Citroen pics are not from GT5, they are from a concept render.
Someone should compare the photomode 458 pics with the screengrabs from PD's prerendered 458 trailer.
 
CrushDance said:
Are those ingame? Forza 3 doesn't look like that. I'll say it's not on GTs level, but those screens are some serious bull, F3 does not look that bad. Post some screens with fairness please.

Yeah, those are completely non-representative, but when we're dealing with games that run through 60 of those a second, let's be real: they all are.
 
Interfectum said:
Amusing to think that over the last 2 years all we've heard in the official Forza thread is

'how did Turn 10 do it'

'the difference is almost generational'

'Turn 10 are gods'

etc.

and that's because all Turn 10 was feeding the public were fake screens. From what I've seen when playing the game even the menu models don't match the models in the fake screens.

Then minutes later you post



Interfectum said:
New GT5 screens including day/night

BULLSHOTS

You don't see any hypocrisy here? Of course not huh....
 

alba

Little is the new Big
Interfectum said:
New GT5 screens including day/night

Only the day time ones are new, the night ones are screencaps from an old promotional video for the GTbyCitroën.
 

DarkJC

Member
F#A#Oo said:
Great way to dodge the question.

The fact that you can't actually tell me the improvements just from memory/experience (if you improve stuff people notice) is enough to say that the experience has not changed all that much and is as I said "incremental" at best.

Have you played GT5:p? Professional physics is much different vs. standard physics, let alone GT4. I've played both GT4 and GT5:p with a wheel, and the changes in the pro physics are more than "incremental at best".

I've never raced a car, so I can't say with 100% certainty if they're more accurate, but the level of difficulty and the reward you feel after getting gold on an S class race with no assists and pro physics is pretty tough to beat.
 
CrushDance said:
Are those ingame? Forza 3 doesn't look like that. I'll say it's not on GTs level, but those screens are some serious bull, F3 does not look that bad. Post some screens with fairness please.
The Gamereactor.dk screens are direct feed 720p with the least possible JPEG compression available. They did a similar comparison between Forza 3 and NFS: Shift a few days ago using the same method.
 
archnemesis said:
The Gamereactor.dk screens are direct feed 720p with the least possible JPEG compression available.

It doesn't change the fact that it doesn't look like that when you play it. We're getting into non-stop provage of my point. Screenshots are an inevitably poor representation of the gameplay experience. The game just doesn't look like that when I play it, plain and simple. It could be the freshest, cleanest screenshot, it doesn't change the fact that like .01 second leter it's replaced by another one at a different angle or with different lighting, all coming together to create what the game actually looks like when you play it.
 
Direct feeds may not fully represent what you're seeing in game (1/60), but they're a hell of a lot more accurate than supersampled bullshots and offscreen pics. Obviously direct feed video would be the ideal way to get an honest representation of the way the game looks, but direct feed screens are the next best thing.
 
To quote this image again on this page, I always loved the bloom glow from the roof in forza 2, I hope it's not totaly removed in 3 :(

also wtf did they do to maple valley's trees :(

I think that right now I prefer the F2 approach of darker shadows and brighter reflections.

 
I totally agree with you BenjaminBirdie, but if you want to compare the graphics between two games direct feed screenshots are still the best way to do it.
 

Cheeto

Member
theignoramus said:
Direct feeds may not fully represent what you're seeing in game (1/60), but they're a hell of a lot more accurate than supersampled bullshots and offscreen pics. Obviously direct feed video would be the ideal way to get an honest representation of the way the game looks, but direct feed screens are the next best thing.
I prefer direct feed gameplay on my tv
 
theignoramus said:
Direct feeds may not fully represent what you're seeing in game (1/60), but they're a hell of a lot more accurate than supersampled bullshots and offscreen pics. Obviously direct feed video would be the ideal way to get an honest representation of the way the game looks, but direct feed screens are the next best thing.

Well sure, and smelling food is a better representation of a meal than just looking at it but neither even come close to just eating. I mean, it's futile to try and halt the steady and unstopping march toward screenshots being valued above nearly ever other media, but still, I've never understood it. It's nice to get a look at what cars are in a game, or what new areas and characters will be there (I remember those first Crackton screens when we saw the Tetris Docks for the first time. Pure bliss, not because of any graphic fidelity nonsense, but because 'HOLY SHIT, LOOK AT THAT!'), but trying to judge what a game is going to look at on your calibrated TV from a screenshot has never worked for me. Bioshock looks like a weird blocky mess in screens. On my TV it is a smooth, gorgeous experience.
 

Interfectum

Gold Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
Well sure, and smelling food is a better representation of a meal than just looking at it but neither even come close to just eating. I mean, it's futile to try and halt the steady and unstopping march toward screenshots being valued above nearly ever other media, but still, I've never understood it. It's nice to get a look at what cars are in a game, or what new areas and characters will be there (I remember those first Crackton screens when we saw the Tetris Docks for the first time. Pure bliss, not because of any graphic fidelity nonsense, but because 'HOLY SHIT, LOOK AT THAT!'), but trying to judge what a game is going to look at on your calibrated TV from a screenshot has never worked for me. Bioshock looks like a weird blocky mess in screens. On my TV it is a smooth, gorgeous experience.

What's the problem when comparing screenshots?

For comparisons sake all things are equal and of course both games benefit from being seen in 60FPS video over static screens.

You act as if screens only do Forza 3 a disservice.
 
Interfectum said:
You act as if screens only do Forza 3 a disservice.

Weird that you'd get that impression when I directly cited a completely different game in the post you just quoted.

It does a disservice to any number of games, which was my entire point, directly illustrated by the citation of multiple games in my posts.
 
Keikoku said:

Yeah, see? This looks clearly and distinguishably better than FM2. I can MAYBE see the argument for screenshots being the only way to compare GT5 and FM3 (still, bpth games have in game footage available) but comparing FM2 and FM3 the same way?

That's ridiculous and flatly unnecessary given the material available for accurate comparison in the form of direct feed high definition video.
 

Dina

Member
ResidentDante said:
Well, you don't need to go overboard here.

Anyhow, why are you even bothering to play Forza when you clearly dislike the graphics so much that it's actually making you write so much hate about it? Just pop in GT5P and play that happily and forget Forza 3 even exists :)

Can't do that man. Interfectum is on a crusade.
 
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