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Forza 5: The monetization is even worse than you think.
- Thread starter NullPointer
- Start date
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Liabe Brave
Member
I don't have the game myself, but could this be the real version?
It makes more sense, since the more expensive sets do give more tokens per dollar and thus better bang for the buck. Though the quantities and prices seem specifically chosen to make that math harder to see at a glance, for some reason.
QuicheFontaine
Member
I don't have the game myself, but could this be the real version?
It makes more sense, since the more expensive sets do give more tokens per dollar and thus better bang for the buck. Though the quantities and prices seem specifically chosen to make that math harder to see at a glance, for some reason.
Another tactic taken from the f2p model.
I don't have the game myself, but could this be the real version?
It makes more sense, since the more expensive sets do give more tokens per dollar and thus better bang for the buck. Though the quantities and prices seem specifically chosen to make that math harder to see at a glance, for some reason.
Is this photoshop? It has to be. There's no way $139.95 for 20,000 tokens is real. Those must be pre release prices. This can't be life.
I took this picture of a guy's stream on twitch.
Unfortunately, it doesn't look like he archived the video.
First off... look at the date format in the screenshot. That's a European date format with the date listed first, then the month and year.
Second... I pulled up the Store on my TV here are the token prices in the US store right now:
100 tokens = $0.99 or $.0099 cents per token
325 tokens = $2.99 or $.0092 cents per token
575 tokens = $4.99 or $.0087 cents per token
1250 tokens = $9.99 or $.0080 cents per token
2700 tokens = $19.99 or $.0074 cents per token
8000 tokens = $49.99 or $.0062 cents per token
20,000 tokens = $99.99 or $.005 cents per token
So no, the price per token does not increase on the larger packages.
Version 3.0
Member
Just got back from a totally out-of-touch holiday weekend. In this Jim Sterling video, dated today:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/8524-Fee-to-Pay-and-the-Death-of-Dignity
Jim says:
What's up with that? I don't see any threads or news about changes to Forza.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/8524-Fee-to-Pay-and-the-Death-of-Dignity
Jim says:
What's up with that? I don't see any threads or news about changes to Forza.
NullPointer
Member
Version 3.0
Member
Thanks! I swear, I read the OP...last week.
I guess the thread came and went while I was out, since there aren't specifics yet.
Companies should learn not to repeat the same mistakes of other companies. That does not instill trust in the consumer.
NullPointer
Member
Not necessarily. You can push things too far and tarnish your image, your credibility, your brand and your good will, even if you end up responding to criticism.
I wouldn't say that MS has recovered from all the negativity they engendered since the Xbone reveal. The fact that they were even trying to enact such a restrictive machine and service is something that a lot of gamers won't forget any time soon.
In fact, Forza 5's cynical DLC fits the steroeotype of the completely out-of-touch MS we all saw and heard before the 180s.
Its almost (read:exactly) like they never truly understood where all that negativity came from.
I've never played a Forza game, so I have nothing to compare it to. I haven't spent anything on the game other than the list price, and I have 53 cars so far. It's only a big deal if you don't ignore it.
So far as MS goes, I still don't have any problem with the original vision. I never freaked over it - all my PC/phone games are tied to my user account/system and are digital. No discs, no cartridges. It's no different, and it's how things are going. 5 years from now everyone is going to think the whole thing was just silly to freak out over.
Debasertron
Neo Member
Am I the only person that doesn't totally detest microtransactions? In this case it seems like IF you aren't willing to put in the time and have the money you can just purchase your vehicles. This is more for the person who just occasionally picks up the controller and just wants to drive a particular car it seems. If you HAD to pay for certain features in the game and had no other way to access them it would be disgusting at best, but unless I read all of that wrong it doesn't seem that way.
After buying a McClaren during the 50% off sale my biggest issue with the Forza economy is I'm getting the same credits for winning a race in a McClaren as I got in a Charger. I would be fine if the payout increased based on league/level so that you started earning bigger purses as you went on.
BladeoftheImmortal
Member
man this really is horrid.
i don't have anything against microtransactions if the game is free 2 play. put it in a full price retail game and I find it absolutely disgusting and gameplay will suffer since it has to be designed around it.
If you're suggesting players who held back ought still purchase this title, as if none of this had ever happened, once the game and economy are fixed then the company is actually taking on 0 risk by attempting to screw players for the sake of profit. This encourages further similar actions by other titles and companies in the future.
Version 3.0
Member
First of all, it was different, for several reasons discussed many times. You clearly didn't listen to any of that, so I won't bother reiterating, but you're dead wrong.
You're also dead wrong about 5 years from now, but I worry that ignorance and apathy, like your own, will be widespread enough that those of us who still care, though numerous, will still be a small enough segment to be safely ignored.
At the moment, though, we're still loud enough and important enough during this early part of the gen to be influential.
Debasertron
Neo Member
They don't have to be necessarily. For the most part they are built around that functionality, but it is totally possible for them to just exist within the game and not be in your face about it or have it totally necessary to the completion of the game.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
Turn 10 fixed things big time. Thanks to the rewards I own more exotic cars in Forza 5 than I ever did in any other game.
Or, there could be a free cheat code if the purchaser of the game wants a quick way to unlock the content that, you know, he already paid for when he bought the game.
Let the consumer use the product they bought any way they want. Don't make them pay twice for the privilege.
I just got a million credits!!! Woot!
Neuromancer
Member
Question: did Gran Turismo 5 have this level of microtransaction asshattery? Is GT6 supposed to?
are you talking about microtransactions or digital only consoles? I'm talking about the latter, and I guarantee everything is moving away from discs. There's no argument for the other way around. Everything else has gotten rid of or is getting rid of physical media. It's a dinosaur.
yeah I own 53 cars, with a few really expensive ones - and I paid nothing extra. Just used the rewards site and the 50% off.
CrazyJuan77
Banned
I for one think that T10 rather overreacted to this "crisis".
For one I dispute that it was that hard to make money in the game, turn up your drivatar difficulty and turn off your assists and bam 125% more money on each race. As it stands, all the whining caused a kneejerk overreaction and now with barely 5 hours of play I've got nearly 8 million banked and the 3million cred F1 car and how ever million+ La ferarri in my garage? So much for enjoying earning them.
If anything racing for money makes even more money than it used to in 4, but because players are now so terrified of actually spending playing the game in order to enjoy it lets just hand out the hard to earn stuff. That will be ever so much more rewarding.
For one I dispute that it was that hard to make money in the game, turn up your drivatar difficulty and turn off your assists and bam 125% more money on each race. As it stands, all the whining caused a kneejerk overreaction and now with barely 5 hours of play I've got nearly 8 million banked and the 3million cred F1 car and how ever million+ La ferarri in my garage? So much for enjoying earning them.
If anything racing for money makes even more money than it used to in 4, but because players are now so terrified of actually spending playing the game in order to enjoy it lets just hand out the hard to earn stuff. That will be ever so much more rewarding.
yeah, you went way too far the other direction. Plus, 125%? you're crazy. not everyone can shift well, or shift with clutch, etc.
CrazyJuan77
Banned
Thats not even talking about the rivals events. Those pay out better and better the higher you climb on the boards, the trick is to just challenge a ghost of a player only marginally faster than you, out drive that player, make profit, and move on to the next one. And of course the difficulty payout increase applies to those too.
yeah I'm a beginner, and my percent on above average is 25% with the assists I have off.
CrazyJuan77
Banned
then keep em on but try tackling rivals near you and racing thier ghosts, great way to improve.
Makes sense with all that negativity.
A couple of things, at least, are incorrect. There is an affinity stat. While it doesn't give you free cars, it's there, and it gives you bonus payouts for races. (Unless I'm misunderstanding what he means by the affinity stat.)
In addition to that, it seems pretty strange to state conclusively that there will be no market for livery/cars, when there's an enormous tile on the front page saying "Market coming soon".
CrazyJuan77
Banned
I get why they did it, but I think they might have over done it. I mean I'm a tier 5 reward player (rewards page from forzamotorsport.net) for my long history with the franchise. I was gifted (as part of this i'm sure) 6 bloody million dollars!, granted thats only like 20 hours of driving at the rate i'm making money, but I could bascially buy any car/cars I want because along with that I was gifted 2 of the most expensive cars as well! Way to take all the joy of earning them out of it.
So I'm not a massive Forza player. But I put some time into Forza 4 and enjoyed it quite a bit. Got the wireless wheel (the small one, it's awesome really), and found the official wireless steering wheel and pedals extremely cheap ($8) at a thrift store. So I've put a little more than just casual time into my past experience.
Anyways, I just checked out ForzaRewards....like, not ever knowing that existed until this thread. And I saw I was given over $3M in credits plus a slew of cars. I'm not sure if this is what I've earned myself or if it was some sort of pre-existing reward prior towards picking up FM5. But hot damn...I'm actually excited to play the game tonight and buy me some new cars that I'd like to hop in to. Seriously.
I'm rather neutral on this topic. I mean, I wish the system was just the way it always was. However, I totally understand T10 making the changes they did to balance out the rarity of the Elite Tier Vehicles. I dunno. I suppose as I put more time into FM5 I'll learn and lean more in one of the directions of argument. But for now, I'm stoked to buy some cars!
Anyways, I just checked out ForzaRewards....like, not ever knowing that existed until this thread. And I saw I was given over $3M in credits plus a slew of cars. I'm not sure if this is what I've earned myself or if it was some sort of pre-existing reward prior towards picking up FM5. But hot damn...I'm actually excited to play the game tonight and buy me some new cars that I'd like to hop in to. Seriously.
I'm rather neutral on this topic. I mean, I wish the system was just the way it always was. However, I totally understand T10 making the changes they did to balance out the rarity of the Elite Tier Vehicles. I dunno. I suppose as I put more time into FM5 I'll learn and lean more in one of the directions of argument. But for now, I'm stoked to buy some cars!
Thanks. I've done a bit of that, i'll do it some more.
you could just not redeem the points, or not use the CR quickly. I mean.... I don't understand complaining about it. People complain they don't have enough CR or that TK cost real money, and on the other side people complain that they got too many free cars and CR. T10 can't win.
Oh, yeah I agree. I just feel it was good though since many people on this forum can stop dissmissing it as a great game.
Personally, as a long time Forza (an in general racer dude), it is much easier to rise to the top...and I personally like the struggle to get to the top lol
From what I've seen so far (60 rivals races) that's not correct. Money has been normalized through all game modes. The amount of time spent on the track decides how much money you make, nothing else. I get the same CR/h when doing slow rival sessions taking them one by one as I get when I just go full speed. I doesn't matter at all. Might as well just do free race on Brickyard for hundreds of laps to earn money. The only thing that seems to get a lot of money is selling tunings.
GrizzleBoy
Banned
Well, here's my input into this whole debacle.
I've played Forza 5 for about 15 hours in total and earned about 1,000,000 credits. I also play with no assists and hardest drivatars.
I was initially bummed about the no free cars, no selling cars and high prices, but it feels like not having so much freedom has actually given me better focus on what I do have to drive.
I started off with a Honda civic and to keep my payouts high, the next car I bought was a Honda NSX-R to keep my affinity rating/bonus rising.
I've done the vast majority of my racing in the NSX and after starting out being absolutely incapable of even cornering with a rear wheel drive car at speed I know that thing inside out and have now started getting so good with it that I can set top 5% times with it. Its also the first time I've spent hours messing with properly tuning/testing my upgrades instead of just running to a new car when I can't go faster.
I redeemed my 3,000,000 credit and free car reward this morning, yet I've spent this evening lapping and racing in my NSX-R. Not spent a penny or touched any of the new cars.
It feels like that car is way more...' important' to me than cars have been in previous Forza games. Its nowhere near easy to drive and even though I know I could probably find another car to compete with the Ferraris/koennigseggs and McLaren F1s the game keep throwing at me, it feels like 'my' car in Forza 5.....from the time spent driving it to learning how to set it up how I like.
When I save up my credits for the super expensive cars I want to buy (the lotus e21 pls) I guess ill have the same feeling of attachment.
By this time in previous Forza games id have a bunch of cars id be either swapping/ignoring/only using for one race/buying parts for and not tuning them at all.
For reference of how I race, I spend most of my time in free play doing races with high number of laps, trying to drive as clean as possible, then watching replays of the races. The same thing I do with my other favourite racing game Project Cars. I only drive the Formula B in that game.
For the more casual guy, I guess this system is obviously going to play on impatience, but imo as long as the progression system doesn't actually make it impossible to buy the cars you want, its not a problem for me. Like I said, two, weeks to get 1,000,000 credits means that I can easily unlock the cars that I want before year end.
Yes its more of a grind, but longer progression systems aren't inherently bad and in my case its done some good for me I'm terms of how I treat Forza games and the cars I have.
Just my 'pinion.
I've played Forza 5 for about 15 hours in total and earned about 1,000,000 credits. I also play with no assists and hardest drivatars.
I was initially bummed about the no free cars, no selling cars and high prices, but it feels like not having so much freedom has actually given me better focus on what I do have to drive.
I started off with a Honda civic and to keep my payouts high, the next car I bought was a Honda NSX-R to keep my affinity rating/bonus rising.
I've done the vast majority of my racing in the NSX and after starting out being absolutely incapable of even cornering with a rear wheel drive car at speed I know that thing inside out and have now started getting so good with it that I can set top 5% times with it. Its also the first time I've spent hours messing with properly tuning/testing my upgrades instead of just running to a new car when I can't go faster.
I redeemed my 3,000,000 credit and free car reward this morning, yet I've spent this evening lapping and racing in my NSX-R. Not spent a penny or touched any of the new cars.
It feels like that car is way more...' important' to me than cars have been in previous Forza games. Its nowhere near easy to drive and even though I know I could probably find another car to compete with the Ferraris/koennigseggs and McLaren F1s the game keep throwing at me, it feels like 'my' car in Forza 5.....from the time spent driving it to learning how to set it up how I like.
When I save up my credits for the super expensive cars I want to buy (the lotus e21 pls) I guess ill have the same feeling of attachment.
By this time in previous Forza games id have a bunch of cars id be either swapping/ignoring/only using for one race/buying parts for and not tuning them at all.
For reference of how I race, I spend most of my time in free play doing races with high number of laps, trying to drive as clean as possible, then watching replays of the races. The same thing I do with my other favourite racing game Project Cars. I only drive the Formula B in that game.
For the more casual guy, I guess this system is obviously going to play on impatience, but imo as long as the progression system doesn't actually make it impossible to buy the cars you want, its not a problem for me. Like I said, two, weeks to get 1,000,000 credits means that I can easily unlock the cars that I want before year end.
Yes its more of a grind, but longer progression systems aren't inherently bad and in my case its done some good for me I'm terms of how I treat Forza games and the cars I have.
Just my 'pinion.
Version 3.0
Member
Neither. I'm talking about "the original vision of the Xbox One" that you mentioned, which was constant online DRM checks, "ownership" at the publisher's discretion, and virtually guaranteed eventual loss of your purchases.
Nothing wrong with digital. It's DRM that fucks it all up, and Microsoft was aiming to use the worst possible kind of DRM.
Pretty spot on, my friend...
check in would've been unnoticed if you're like most gamers and log in as you turn the system on. The other two things you mentioned are conjecture. No court would uphold that a publisher could take away ownership.
the checkins would've been necessary. otherwise people would rip a disc, and give it away or sell it. double dipping for themselves.
/close argument. Spot on, you are 100% correct.
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