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[G Rom]

Yep, I would also be fine with a fixed (or finished, depends how mean you want to be with them :lol ) Forza Motorsport 3. I've said it numerous time in this thread, with more time and polish Forza 3 could have been 10x better, be it the graphics, the PI, the online, etc...

It's not the fact that we won't see those type of graphics that make me sad/mad, it's the way Turn 10 handle the communication again by trying to lie again... :/


And I do agree saladine1 that they need to start doing a racing game again...

Edit :

can someone please clarify what was shown here though ?

i've seen some gameplay about overtaking cars which looked exactly like fm3, and a great car porn demo which looked fabulous, but only had one car onscreen (no trouble believing that was real time).

Gameplay section was some fm3 add on and the car porn was a sneak peak at fm4 (yeah right) or they were both from forza "4" (in which case i think we can expect the game to look like fm3)

Both were demos from which the next big Forza experience (read Forza 4) will take ideas.
The gameplay part looked exactly like Forza 3 indeed and the desert part wasn't too far technically. I think everyone is fooled by the great presentation but when you look closely it is far from being the leap they want us to believe.

 

[SuperÑ]

Forza Motorsport Prologue, as i see it.

 

[phosphor112]

Forza Motorsport Prologue, as i see it.

$60 brand new.

"Spec I" update is going to cost $10 dollars, each update includes 5 cars :lol

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Forza Motorsport Prologue, as i see it.

Forza Motorsport 3 Epilogue.

 

[phosphor112]

Forza Motorsport 3 Epilogue.

Imagine during a 24 hour race with "Kinect." :lol
Future of racing? Bite me. I'll take my PC/PS3 rig and keep this motion sensing crap away from it.

 

[Hyoushi]

Seems like a more casual Kinect-focused game. The gameplay sequence with the passing challenge from the PGR games seems based on the Forza3 engine with some minor tweaks, which is what I would expect considering the relatively short devtime. Also, no explanation how you accelerate/brake. Might be automatic!

The whining about what screenshot is realtime or not seems a bit inane. However, in the "desert showroom" part, if you are a car nerd and want to look closer at the highlighted info spots, I'd guess you'd want it to display the info in a more non-intrusive manner than cutting between 5-6 crazy cameras and overlaying COOL MOTIONGRAPHICS INFO with the same annoying music clip every time.

 

[Saiyu]

Meh Test Drive's "moving around the garage" was good enough for me, I just want to race and buy pretty cars in Forza.

 

[saladine1]

Seems like a more casual Kinect-focused game. The gameplay sequence with the passing challenge from the PGR games seems based on the Forza3 engine with some minor tweaks, which is what I would expect considering the relatively short devtime. Also, no explanation how you accelerate/brake. Might be automatic!

The whining about what screenshot is realtime or not seems a bit inane. However, in the "desert showroom" part, if you are a car nerd and want to look closer at the highlighted info spots, I'd guess you'd want it to display the info in a more non-intrusive manner than cutting between 5-6 crazy cameras and overlaying COOL MOTIONGRAPHICS INFO with the same annoying music clip every time.

The future of Forza will be enhanced by Kinect. We are creating a game that will truly be accessible by audiences of all racing pedigrees. That said, we are not leaving our core players behind. There will be plenty here for both newbies and veterans. It's Forza Motorsport. We know what we do best.

At least that's some consolation from all the confusion.
Whether they go through with that is another story altogether..

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Imagine during a 24 hour race with "Kinect." :lol
Future of racing? Bite me. I'll take my PC/PS3 rig and keep this motion sensing crap away from it.

Nah, Kinect driving is intended for a different audience and that's okay with me. Forza deserves to be in more people's hands. I like Dan's vision and adding things like Kinetic support and showroom modes is great - as long as it doesn't impede on advancing the actual racing aspects.

Then again, maybe there are no more advancements to be made in that area, since Forza 3 was the definitive racing game of the generation.

However, in the "desert showroom" part, if you are a car nerd and want to look closer at the highlighted info spots, I'd guess you'd want it to display the info in a more non-intrusive manner than cutting between 5-6 crazy cameras and overlaying COOL MOTIONGRAPHICS INFO with the same annoying music clip every time.

That I agree with. I mean, those animations are neat and all, but I'd also like the mode to provide a way of getting all that information and close-ups in a less hectic manner.

 

[eso76]

Both were demos from which the next big Forza experience (read Forza 4) will take ideas.
The gameplay part looked exactly like Forza 3 indeed and the desert part wasn't too far technically. I think everyone is fooled by the great presentation but when you look closely it is far from being the leap they want us to believe.

well..no, the part in the desert was looking fabulous, kinda like fm3 screensaver mode in montserrat, but with ***much*** better shaders and lighting. Still, that was just a 'photomode' with one car onscreen, so even assuming that was realtime i'm not too impressed. Let's see if they can get ingame shaders on par with those come 2011, though.

 

[G Rom]

I think the way they showed specs was done to accommodate the awful short time they had in the conference. Maybe in the behind closed door demo you can take more time to do it.


Now that I think about it, I wonder if the concept art showing rain was for this next big forza experience too. It looked like a Forza game at the time. Maybe Turn 10 is making a new engine to make rain and night racing possible.
Could be a valid reason as the current one doesn't have dynamic lighting for example.

 

[TheOddOne]

Forza Motorsport 3 Epilogue.

:lol

PLEASE NO. PLEASE

 

[saladine1]

I think the way they showed specs was done to accommodate the awful short time they had in the conference. Maybe in the behind closed door demo you can take more time to do it.


Now that I think about it, I wonder if the concept art showing rain was for this next big forza experience too. It looked like a Forza game at the time. Maybe Turn 10 is making a new engine to make rain and night racing possible.
Could be a valid reason as the current one doesn't have dynamic lighting for example.

I think your right. Lit up headlights were also shown in the demo. Then again, headlights were also shown in a previous FM3 trailer which as we know, wasn't included in the final game.
One could always hope..

 

[G Rom]

well..no, the part in the desert was looking fabulous, kinda like fm3 screensaver mode in montserrat, but with ***much*** better shaders and lighting. Still, that was just a 'photomode' with one car onscreen, so even assuming that was realtime i'm not too impressed. Let's see if they can get ingame shaders on par with those come 2011, though.

Hence my "it's not a big leap" thinking. Better shader and lighting could have been done in Forza 3, the engine was more than capable to do that.

The leap will be impressive if they can optimize the shit out of the engine and get more cars on track with graphics at least on par (technically not esthetically :lol ) with Forza 3.
I would take at least 16 cars on track over rain anytime.

In the past, Turn 10 said they were communicating with studios developping for the Xbox 360, maybe they got the dynamic lighting of Alan Wake for night racing !:lol

 

[Arhal_Katarn]

Brake and Gas controls anyone? I guess it could scan your feet going up or down i dont know. Damn this thing does seem dumb somethimes, theres no way it will ever replace a traditional controller like the wii has.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

I don't want any hand waving nonsense, but give me head tracking, and I'll be set

 

[G Rom]

IIRC, the Burnout demo they had last year tracked your feet. Depending on which one was in front of the other, it accelerated or braked. Some have speculated that the passing challenge demo had no accelerate/brake control though, just turning to avoid collision with other cars.

Forza 3 had one button driving, get ready for zero button driving !:lol

 

[Tbigum]

So now with Kinect, people can use their G25/27 on the Xbox playing Forza, without even have to plug it in :-D

 

[eso76]

Hence my "it's not a big leap" thinking. Better shader and lighting could have been done in Forza 3, the engine was more than capable to do that.

The leap will be impressive if they can optimize the shit out of the engine and get more cars on track with graphics at least on par (technically not esthetically :lol ) with Forza 3.
I would take at least 16 cars on track over rain anytime.

well, it doesn't have to offer rain AND 16 cars at the same time.
I believe GT also adjusts the number of cars to whatever else the engine has to deal with.

(LOD management that displays those high quality models during replays ? that's out of the question i guess )

 

[Seanspeed]

If the motion controls dont work absolutely great(with precision braking and throttle allowed, of course), then its not gonna be acceptable for me.

The graphics are not that important to me. FM3 looks just fine, I just want improved gameplay aspects and balancing.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Seems like a more casual Kinect-focused game. The gameplay sequence with the passing challenge from the PGR games seems based on the Forza3 engine with some minor tweaks, which is what I would expect considering the relatively short devtime. Also, no explanation how you accelerate/brake. Might be automatic!

You bet your ass it's automatic, that's why he was racing slower cars in an overtake challenge.

Anyway, I just wanted to chime in and say, to me, this whole thing goes against everything Forza stands for. You don't ruin the best simulation racer with controls that obviously have a long way to go before they can compare to a traditional controller (or a wheel).

 

[G Rom]

well, it doesn't have to offer rain AND 16 cars at the same time.
I believe GT also adjusts the number of cars to whatever else the engine has to deal with.

(LOD management that displays those high quality models during replays ? that's out of the question i guess )

Yeah, I don't think 16 cars and rain is possible on this generation but if I had to chose, I'd take more cars on track for sure.
GT does adjust the number of cars, GT4 had Wet Tsukuba with only two cars on it if my memory is right.


I don't get all the people that keeps bringing the precision of kinect control up, those are optional and are in no way meant for hardcore gamer, just like one button driving wasn't made for them either.
Forza 3 had many option to make the game easy without dumbing down the gameplay for veterans, I don't see why this would change with Forza 4. Turn 10 are aware that the veterans are part of the game. It's not the 4 year old boys who do awesome liveries, take photos or make great drifting videos...:lol
Anyone thinking that we wouldn't see Kinect control in Forza was delusional, it makes perfect sense for Microsoft to use it in their biggest franchises just like it makes sense for Sony to probably announce something similar for GT today.

 

[MrJollyLivesNextDoor]

Clear proof that the screenshots are NOT coming from the demo :

The tires are your typical Forza one in the demo but in the shots they are clearly labeled as Michelin.

most immediate difference would be the fact it's reflecting itself like the wing mirrors which indicates an offline ray traced render so definitely not the same as the real time demo.

Having said that the real time stuff still looked pretty awesome, just a shame they have to give us BS like this.

 

[TheOddOne]

You bet your ass it's automatic, that's why he was racing slower cars in an overtake challenge.

Anyway, I just wanted to chime in and say, to me, this whole thing goes against everything Forza stands for. You don't ruin the best simulation racer with controls that obviously have a long way to go before they can compare to a traditional controller (or a wheel).

Atleast its a option, there was no mention that the controller had been removed completly.

 

[saladine1]

If the motion controls dont work absolutely great(with precision braking and throttle allowed, of course), then its not gonna be acceptable for me.

The graphics are not that important to me. FM3 looks just fine, I just want improved gameplay aspects and balancing.

Even if the motion does work great, are you really content on having to pretend your clutching a steering wheel and depressing an invisible accelerator pedal?
How are you going to 'feel' what the car is doing without rumble or FF?
I can tell you, I CBF waving my arms around like some insane person. I just want to kick back and relax with controller or wheel in hand and enjoy the experience the traditional,practical way.
(All this is being said under the assumption that FM4 is going controller-less)

 

[Fallout-NL]

Atleast its a option, there was no mention that the controller had been removed completly.

The fact that it's there is offensive. They know damn well this is no way to build a sim racer. Let someone else handle crap like this. Anyway, that's all I have to say on the matter.

 

[Diablohead]

The car overtaking part they showed yesterday was very PGR like, I hope that forza 4 has some events like that to spice up the single player snore fest. Not asking for a lot but racing the same track again and again with only 7 ai cars is just boring now, no matter how pretty or what car you are driving this is like the 3rd time in forza we have had the same stuff.

 

[eso76]

most immediate difference would be the fact it's reflecting itself like the wing mirrors which indicates an offline ray traced render so definitely not the same as the real time demo.

Having said that the real time stuff still looked pretty awesome, just a shame they have to give us BS like this.

maybe photomode does raytracing this time

 

[G Rom]

maybe photomode does raytracing this time

I can't wait to see this raytracing ruined by jpeg artifact if it does !

 

[Tiago Leite]

The thing is this... the screenshots aren't equal (the same quality) to the demo shown a Microsoft E3 demo. In screenshots, there are reflections that aren't in the demo (for example). I believe that the demo on stage was indeed real time, as said in the Forzamorotsport.net article, but the SS arn't. I see them as a "vision", a guideline to what they want to achieve, so that's cool. If they will match that quality (raytraced?) in 30fps... I really dont't know, but as a neogaf member.... I WANT TO BELIEVE

Like I said before...
In IGN site, the pictures are labeled as "E3 2010: Forza 4 Artwork", so think about it.
Need more proofs? Go to http://forzamotorsport.net/en-us/Future_of_Forza/ then right-click in any of the "SS" they post in the news and check the file name...
Maybe they will do something like this... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qidy4xf1T4k

Before go wild read what I quoted

 

[Diablohead]

I can't wait to see this raytracing ruined by jpeg artifact if it does !

lol yeah imagine that, 5 minute raytrace saved as a 99kb .jpg :lol

*edit* I think its possible to have forza 3/4 render that pretty with one single car on flat lands, but the self reflections might be taking it a little too far into the bullshot realm.

 

[rustymike12]

"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me"
I think most people will be intelligent enough to not buy the hype as in FM 2.5

 

[Apex]

 

[Mobius 1]

Oh Turn10, fool me never again :lol

Pretty CGI Italia, though.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Made one like that a while ago but didn't wanna be the one to post it.


Is this demo playable at E3 at all?

 

[TheOddOne]

Made one like that a while ago but didn't wanna be the one to post it.


Is this demo playable at E3 at all?

Yes, Giantbomb played it.

 

[derFeef]

Made one like that a while ago but didn't wanna be the one to post it.


Is this demo playable at E3 at all?

Jeff played it (he tells about in the Bombcast) and it worked well it seems.

 

[G Rom]

Yeah, if Che is to be believed, the demo is shown behind closed door.
To be fair, the amount of lag between the guy and the screen must be enormous. 150 ms from Kinect, then the image go through the whole video setup to be back on the big screen.
What I found weird was how great the guy was doing in the passing challenge, it made it look really (too) precise.

 

[Metalmurphy]

Jeff played it (he tells about in the Bombcast) and it worked well it seems.

Cool, then the real-time comments, can still be true. Just pre-scripted to avoid fuck ups.

 

[derFeef]

Cool, then the real-time comments, can still be true. Just pre-scripted to avoid fuck ups.

Thats what I think and thats why I think those gifs are just making fun of the conference, not the games itself.

 

[eso76]

oh, i think i know what's going on.
each time the guy clicks on something a short cg clip is triggered, which looks similar to the realtime stuff, but not quite there.

 

[adelante]

Has this been posted yet? Forza Motorsport 4 Demo (Gamespot):

http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6265584/?tag=top_stories;title;8

 

[Psychotext]

Also possible that the time spent playing the current option / selecting the next option is used to render / store what's next. There's no way that they'd have the space to be able to put all of the high detail pre-generated stuff on a disc (or three).

 

[TheOddOne]

Has this been posted yet? Forza Motorsport 4 Demo (Gamespot):

http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6265584/?tag=top_stories;title;8

Even Dan says it aint the next Forza, its a tech demo.

 

[BeeDog]

Has this been posted yet? Forza Motorsport 4 Demo (Gamespot):

http://e3.gamespot.com/video/6265584/?tag=top_stories;title;8

I hope this doesn't come off as trolling (because I really don't intend for that), but the lag between motion and the replication in-game could be disastrous in demanding races (or in demanding anything), like when you want to do technical overtakes and such stuff. As of now, the Kinect usage in Forza 3/4 comes off as a cool 'gimmick' (for the lack of a better word right now), sort of like the Sixaxis feature in the MotorStorm games, but more involving and thought-out.

 

[Megasoum]

Even Dan says it aint the next Forza, its a tech demo.

Actually he says it's a vertical slice for a new forza. The VS is the first demo/concept you put up as a dev team to show to the suits in order to get the green light on the project. Aka this is part Tech demo, part concept for FM4.

 

[TheOddOne]

Actually he says it's a vertical slice for a new forza. The VS is the first demo/concept you put up as a dev team to show to the suits in order to get the green light on the project. Aka this is part Tech demo, part concept for FM4.

Ohh, now I get it.

 

[eso76]

Also possible that the time spent playing the current option / selecting the next option is used to render / store what's next. There's no way that they'd have the space to be able to put all of the high detail pre-generated stuff on a disc (or three).

i really doubt the next Fm or whatever it is that they are releasing in 2011 will have that many details - stuff appearing on screen, interactive doors etc - for each car.
This is just an example.

(huge lag on that kinect demo at gamespot)

 

[TheOddOne]

i really doubt the next Fm or whatever it is that they are releasing in 2011 will have that many details - stuff appearing on screen, interactive doors etc - for each car.
This is just an example.

(huge lag on that kinect demo at gamespot)

Yeah :/ Well its a tech demo, hopefully Turn10 fixes some of the issues.

Also did Dan mention Crackdown? Awesome

 

[Diablohead]

The lag in that gamespot footage isn't too bad actually, I was expecting like half a second or something stupid :lol it also looks rather playable... why did they not do this live on the stage?

I wonder if we could hold a plastic wheel and the camera still pick up our hands because holding nothing to me seems weird as shit, and I rather like the mario kart wii controls.