Forza Motorsport Vs. Gran Turismo. Better Sim Franchise? -poll-

Better Sim Franchise?


  • Total voters
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Sep 21, 2018
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Also, why are people not addressing the question posed.....It's ok if you feel Forza is a better package, because it has more content etc.....SP content was what GTS was knocked for anyway, not it's sim quality.....The question posed was which franchise has the better sim? It's not which game has the better Meta score, the truth is, GTS has gone leaps and bounds with extra tracks, cars and SP content since launch, even improvements to physics etc.......So the current game is much improved, even though journalists reviewed it as a main GT when it was not meant to be.....

Yet beyond the meta score, even Forza is trying to catch-up to the high standard GTS has set for online racing, they have devoted time to getting rid of lootboxes, which was a way to access all the cars people deem make Forza a better package of content, which is pretty ironic.......Yet on the sim aspect.......GTS is the first game to really nail the physics, sound, graphics and presentation of Sim racing on your couch......I think more persons will see what PD has done here in the next iteration of racing games, especially Forza, even Project Cars or Assetto (if they have the budget)....You will see Turn 10 try to get their presentation, replays, the motorsport aspect closer to GT for the next round.....
You re-worded the thread title. It doesn't ask which is a better sim, just which is a better sim franchise. See: "Forza Motorsport Vs. Gran Turismo. Better Sim Franchise? -poll-" and "But of these two franchises which one is better overall?" At no point is the question only which is a better simulator.

On the sim side of things they aren't too far apart anyways, as they are both a bit more arcade than sim which is fine by me. GT has better sim elements like working pits, a flag system, and the cockpit view shows a better representation of what the driver is doing. Forza has a better car simulation with proper damage simulation, tire wear, and tire model. It also includes brake fade, sector based tire temperatures, and track temperatures that change throughout the race dependant on conditions, all of which is viewable real-time in the telemetry which can be pulled up at any time in a race. I can also choose a view that takes the steering wheel right out of cockpit view so I'm not using my wheel while looking at another wheel on the screen. Forza 7 will be getting race regulations in 2019, but since they aren't here yet, it means jack shit at this time. GT has the FIA series you mentioned, Forza has the ForzaRC.

As a sim they both pale in comparison to AC, PCars or even poor old Race Pro, which feature every sim aspect of both GT and Forza, but also include much more comprehensive damage systems with visibly modeled damage and parts that can actually come off the cars.

Polyphony has always been given all the time in the world to make games, and despite that the games Kaz releases are more often than not very rough around the edges, two of them have been full price demos containing only a partial game. Some have included car models from previous generations in the franchise. Forza has been on a tight two-year deadline since the first game, and the games still manage to release as full titles, though it has been obvious that they had started to rush things after FM4. With FM7 being the last game on that two year deadline, there is already a huge improvement to how T10 in handling the game as a result. Modes like experimental drag, the upcoming racing regulation system, new steering angle modifications for drifting, more aesthetic car modifications, new wheels, collision improvements to the camera, etc shows that T10 is finally tackling the list of items players have been asking for now that they have the time to do so. With the extra time between games it will be interesting to see what they come up with.

On another note, you're completely wrong about how the loot box system worked in FM7 before they turned it into Race Shop. It let you use in-game currency to buy crates containing mod cards you use to get bonus credits/experience in races, badges for your profile, or racing suits. The crates had nothing to do with the cars at all. The Race Shop system is simply the exact same items but instead of being hidden in a crate, they are visible as individual items that are on a five minute rotation. Progressing through the career, increasing your driver level, and increasing your car inventory unlocks rare cars and Forza Edition cars which are duplicate cars that offer another race bonus of one type or another. Most of them are available through new Forzathon challenges offered every week. The initial roster when at driver level 1 is still more than the full car list for GTS was at launch. FM7's car list doesn't include things like the Rally/Drift/Race versions of some cars that can be assembled using modifications available to each car. By tier 5 (which can be quickly reached by buying cars) all cars are available for use, and you don't have to buy them to use them, as any car can be rented for use in a race.

Your complaints about assists are equally misinformed. While they do exist, every one of them can be shut off completely meaning if I fuck up the first corner, or any corner, I can damage parts on my car for the remainder of the race possibly ending my race right there as the car will behave differently based on what was damaged. There are dozens of parts that can incur damage, and each part has different levels of damage, for example a broken shock leaving just the spring making that corner of the car unstable or damaged brakes that can leave you with no braking pressure on one tire. Having any assist turned on reflects in leaderboards (or if you can even place at all), what type of online races you are allowed to enter, what rewards you get after a race. Super easy mode exists so that a guy can play the game after work and when a screaming toddler wants to play a race, he can set up a super easy race and watch the little shit get snot all over the controller while he questions his decision to go raw dog four years ago, that's it. With all assists off, a simple mistake like putting a tire in the gravel exiting a corner or locking up a tire in a braking zone can end the race.

All this leads to your complaint about the online racing in Forza. You can choose a long duration race hopper with assists off, and simulation damage on, and you can create private matches with anyone on your friends list. Voila, you have a bunch of people that want to race clean. There is also a new collision assist in place now that can deflect blatant crashers, rendering them pointless as it now reduces the impact strength and damage incurred from blatant ramming to near-zero while still allowing regular bump-and-grind racing to do the normal amounts of damage. GTS still does have an overall cleaner online community from what I've read, but it's not hard to find like-minded people to race with in Forza either.

Your opinions are always based on mis-information or outright missing info. If you had played FM7 for even a few hours you would have known all of the info I posted. You couldn't even be bothered to read the initial post so obviously researching something before you post about it is asking a lot.
 
Mar 19, 2013
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I can understand the debate until GTS... sure GT6 was a mini GT5 more polished that resulted in Forza 4 being overall a better game.

But Forza is in a stagnation state since Forza 5 and that is why you can’t see anything different in the franchise this generation except the more arcade spin off Horizon... that showed how Horizon shined this gen over the main Forza games.

Most Forza fans still consider Forza 4 being the peak and that tells a lot of what happened this gen with the mainline franchise.

GT in the opposite way envolved... envolved to new horizons, envolved the genre again.

GTS is the most complete and polished GT game ever created... it is well done in every single mode. It takes the genre and envolve it to hit the peak together with iRacing (actually both franchises are in a another league compared with others racing sims).

So yes GTS put GT franchise in a better shape than Forza 5, 6 and 7 put the Forza mainline franchise. Forza needs to catch and envolve to the new benchmark of the racing sim games but maybe that didn’t happens this gen.

GTS continue it success and deliver the best of the racing sim on consoles at the same time iRacing is doing the same on PCs.

Play, watch, take photos, make videos, make your own car designs are a joy in GTS that actually is not matched in any sim racing on consoles.

Give GTS a try... it will show you a new world in the racing sims.
 
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Likes: m34
May 30, 2018
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You re-worded the thread title. It doesn't ask which is a better sim, just which is a better sim franchise. See: "Forza Motorsport Vs. Gran Turismo. Better Sim Franchise? -poll-" and "But of these two franchises which one is better overall?" At no point is the question only which is a better simulator.

On the sim side of things they aren't too far apart anyways, as they are both a bit more arcade than sim which is fine by me. GT has better sim elements like working pits, a flag system, and the cockpit view shows a better representation of what the driver is doing. Forza has a better car simulation with proper damage simulation, tire wear, and tire model. It also includes brake fade, sector based tire temperatures, and track temperatures that change throughout the race dependant on conditions, all of which is viewable real-time in the telemetry which can be pulled up at any time in a race. I can also choose a view that takes the steering wheel right out of cockpit view so I'm not using my wheel while looking at another wheel on the screen. Forza 7 will be getting race regulations in 2019, but since they aren't here yet, it means jack shit at this time. GT has the FIA series you mentioned, Forza has the ForzaRC.

As a sim they both pale in comparison to AC, PCars or even poor old Race Pro, which feature every sim aspect of both GT and Forza, but also include much more comprehensive damage systems with visibly modeled damage and parts that can actually come off the cars.

Polyphony has always been given all the time in the world to make games, and despite that the games Kaz releases are more often than not very rough around the edges, two of them have been full price demos containing only a partial game. Some have included car models from previous generations in the franchise. Forza has been on a tight two-year deadline since the first game, and the games still manage to release as full titles, though it has been obvious that they had started to rush things after FM4. With FM7 being the last game on that two year deadline, there is already a huge improvement to how T10 in handling the game as a result. Modes like experimental drag, the upcoming racing regulation system, new steering angle modifications for drifting, more aesthetic car modifications, new wheels, collision improvements to the camera, etc shows that T10 is finally tackling the list of items players have been asking for now that they have the time to do so. With the extra time between games it will be interesting to see what they come up with.

On another note, you're completely wrong about how the loot box system worked in FM7 before they turned it into Race Shop. It let you use in-game currency to buy crates containing mod cards you use to get bonus credits/experience in races, badges for your profile, or racing suits. The crates had nothing to do with the cars at all. The Race Shop system is simply the exact same items but instead of being hidden in a crate, they are visible as individual items that are on a five minute rotation. Progressing through the career, increasing your driver level, and increasing your car inventory unlocks rare cars and Forza Edition cars which are duplicate cars that offer another race bonus of one type or another. Most of them are available through new Forzathon challenges offered every week. The initial roster when at driver level 1 is still more than the full car list for GTS was at launch. FM7's car list doesn't include things like the Rally/Drift/Race versions of some cars that can be assembled using modifications available to each car. By tier 5 (which can be quickly reached by buying cars) all cars are available for use, and you don't have to buy them to use them, as any car can be rented for use in a race.

Your complaints about assists are equally misinformed. While they do exist, every one of them can be shut off completely meaning if I fuck up the first corner, or any corner, I can damage parts on my car for the remainder of the race possibly ending my race right there as the car will behave differently based on what was damaged. There are dozens of parts that can incur damage, and each part has different levels of damage, for example a broken shock leaving just the spring making that corner of the car unstable or damaged brakes that can leave you with no braking pressure on one tire. Having any assist turned on reflects in leaderboards (or if you can even place at all), what type of online races you are allowed to enter, what rewards you get after a race. Super easy mode exists so that a guy can play the game after work and when a screaming toddler wants to play a race, he can set up a super easy race and watch the little shit get snot all over the controller while he questions his decision to go raw dog four years ago, that's it. With all assists off, a simple mistake like putting a tire in the gravel exiting a corner or locking up a tire in a braking zone can end the race.

All this leads to your complaint about the online racing in Forza. You can choose a long duration race hopper with assists off, and simulation damage on, and you can create private matches with anyone on your friends list. Voila, you have a bunch of people that want to race clean. There is also a new collision assist in place now that can deflect blatant crashers, rendering them pointless as it now reduces the impact strength and damage incurred from blatant ramming to near-zero while still allowing regular bump-and-grind racing to do the normal amounts of damage. GTS still does have an overall cleaner online community from what I've read, but it's not hard to find like-minded people to race with in Forza either.

Your opinions are always based on mis-information or outright missing info. If you had played FM7 for even a few hours you would have known all of the info I posted. You couldn't even be bothered to read the initial post so obviously researching something before you post about it is asking a lot.
Truth right here.

The problem with tlw, is that his posts are so misinformed, while being so long, that it takes an equally long post just to correct all the mistakes he posts. Sometimes I have the time and energy to do it.... Most times I don't.

Glad you took the time to dismantle his points, because it was beyond obvious that they were flawed.
 
May 30, 2018
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I can understand the debate until GTS... sure GT6 was a mini GT5 more polished that resulted in Forza 4 being overall a better game.

But Forza is in a stagnation state since Forza 5 and that is why you can’t see anything different in the franchise this generation except the more arcade spin off Horizon... that showed how Horizon shined this gen over the main Forza games.

Most Forza fans still consider Forza 4 being the peak and that tells a lot of what happened this gen with the mainline franchise.

GT in the opposite way envolved... envolved to new horizons, envolved the genre again.

GTS is the most complete and polished GT game ever created... it is well done in every single mode. It takes the genre and envolve it to hit the peak together with iRacing (actually both franchises are in a another league compared with others racing sims).

So yes GTS put GT franchise in a better shape than Forza 5, 6 and 7 put the Forza mainline franchise. Forza needs to catch and envolve to the new benchmark of the racing sim games but maybe that didn’t happens this gen.

GTS continue it success and deliver the best of the racing sim on consoles at the same time iRacing is doing the same on PCs.

Play, watch, take photos, make videos, make your own car designs are a joy in GTS that actually is not matched in any sim racing on consoles.

Give GTS a try... it will show you a new world in the racing sims.
Wow! There's a lot to unpack here.

• Do you work for Sony or Polyphony?

• Forza is in stagnation, and hasnt evolved? Weather, visuals, game modes, drifting setups, drag setups, etc... makes your statement false.

• Some fans do consider Forza 4 a classic, but I haven't heard any claim that it peaked. Most simply believe that 5 was a step back from 4, and that 6 had the franchise going in the right direction again. I would also say that there are many more GT fans that believe GTS to be one of the worst GT's in the series with the direction they took the franchise. There are even some examples of that in this thread.

• GTS is the most complete and polished GT game ever created? That automatically makes Forza 7 the most complete and polished game of all time then, going by that standard. Way more cars, more tracks, more customization, weather, more game modes, etc... Go home, you're drunk.

• "Play, watch, take photos, make videos, make your own car designs are a joy in GTS that actually is not matched in any sim racing on consoles." Not much of this has anything to do with being "sim". Photos and videos in GTS are better than any other racing game. Nobody would dispute that. Making your own car designs on Forza is lightyears ahead of GT. Nobody would dispute that... yet here you are.

• How about you play both GTS, and Forza 7 before making such ill informed posts, because it's obvious that you have no real world experience to compare these two games.... yet alone the entire franchises.
 
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Apr 6, 2015
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I think that you hold that opinion because you're used to GT's car selection: 30 skylines, 30 miatas, 30 civics, yet only 10 ferraris. Like around 60% of the GT6 car roster was Japanese if I recall correctly.

Forza is actually very balanced in terms of car selection, and takes from all three major regions appropriately.

Though I admit, driving everyday japanese hatchbacks is part of the GT charm.
It’s just where my taste in cars lies. I couldn’t give a fuck about some ugly ass Lambo or really any supercars in general.

I grew up on GT, and Initial D. My taste in cars formed from there.

The only European car company I care about is Porsche, and BMW prior to the late 2000s (my last car was a E36 M3).

That being said I will always choose GT over Forza because it caters to my tastes. There’s no point in driving cars I don’t enjoy.
 
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Likes: BusierDonkey
Mar 19, 2013
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lol that is why I avoid sharing opinion here... you get attacked when you do that even when you explain with facts what is happening with the franchises.

Next time I will just put GTS and ends without any explanation.
 
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Feb 22, 2018
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While Forza is better executed in recent years (in terms of UI, driving mechanics), I must say I miss the clunky progression system of the Gran turismo series. If it wasn't for the awful screen tearing I would consider GT6 to be my favorite racer, right alongside GT4.
 
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It’s just where my taste in cars lies. I couldn’t give a fuck about some ugly ass Lambo or really any supercars in general.

I grew up on GT, and Initial D. My taste in cars formed from there.

The only European car company I care about is Porsche, and BMW prior to the late 2000s (my last car was a E36 M3).

That being said I will always choose GT over Forza because it caters to my tastes. There’s no point in driving cars I don’t enjoy.
And that's totally understandable. Back when I played GT4, it was pretty satisfying to take my parents car and upgrade it to make it a rocket. Driving a Toyota Vitz or Mazda Demio is always refreshing for a change.
 
Mar 26, 2016
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lol that is why I avoid sharing opinion here... you get attacked when you do that even when you explain with facts what is happening with the franchises.

Next time I will just put GTS and ends without any explanation.
Come crawling back to GAF it seems, they don't tolerate your shit at the new place.
 
May 30, 2018
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lol that is why I avoid sharing opinion here... you get attacked when you do that even when you explain with facts what is happening with the franchises.

Next time I will just put GTS and ends without any explanation.
Dismantling your opinion that was based on anything but facts isnt "attacking" you.

You made statements, and I replied to them. Some of your statements can be written off as simply a difference of opinion. Others had no basis in fact, despite you saying so.

If you have a counterpoint to make, you're free to make it. That's called discussion. If you're not capable of doing that, that's not on me.
 
Mar 19, 2013
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Dismantling your opinion that was based on anything but facts isnt "attacking" you.

You made statements, and I replied to them. Some of your statements can be written off as simply a difference of opinion. Others had no basis in fact, despite you saying so.

If you have a counterpoint to make, you're free to make it. That's called discussion. If you're not capable of doing that, that's not on me.
Fine but there is no discussion when you made useless points with personal attacks to begin with.

- No.

- What changed from Forza 5 to Forza 7? It is basically the same game released each two years while some features are a step down compared with Forza 4... that is the concept of stagnation... so no as a racing sim my statement is far from false.

- Forza 4 is still considered the peak of the franchise because it was more focused than the actual games of the franchise and it had more sim feature than actual games... of course the graphics are better now because well you have more power to work on... but physics simulation, AI are steps back from Forza 4. GTS is only not considered the best GT in the series until you play it fully... any fan that touched the MP have different opinions after initial misconceptions... it is not hard to find post like “I was wrong about GTS...” here, in GTPlanet, or any other gaming community... the genre envolved for better and GTS is leading the genre in consoles... racing in a racing sim was never so fun before like it is in GTS.

- Yes GTS is the most complete and polished GT ever created and that has nothing to do with Forza... GTS is the fist GT game in decades to have a clear focus in both SP and MP content... the SP is basically a racing driving school that really teach you everything you needs to envolve and race in both the game and real life... it is well made and complete for every single track in the game. It is really an accomplish what PD did here making a must to play SP content instead the unfocused loads of content in previous games. And the MP is basically the envolve of the racing sim genre and the pioneer in consoles... it is no brainer to relate it with the successful features found in iRacing on PC where it takes a lot of inspirations. GTS is really well made and polished in every single part of the game and it cover all sides of it goal to make you a racer... so no I’m not drunk so cut the useless attacks.

- The complete experience found in GTS can’t be found in any other racing sim and it is tons of fun play it... I’m not sure what are your arguing about here.

- Another pointless comment when you can’t counter what I write in the first place... I have real world experience to make my claims... not only I played I talk, listen and share opinion with both fan bases... GTS is the game envolving the genre right now and racing was never so joyful experience.

I can understand some hate for changes made by GTS... human are used to hate what is diferente even when it is better... the content (read tracks and cars) even being enough at launch was not what most expected... but it was a game created to have constant updates to never left you without any new thing to play so every single month you receive new tracks (at least new layout) and cars... even the unless and boring old mode GT League was added (it is add nothing for the racing... GTS still shines with the original SP content that is increased with each new track/layout that teach you pretty well how to race).
 
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Fine but there is no discussion when you made useless points with personal attacks to begin with.

- No.

- What changed from Forza 5 to Forza 7? It is basically the same game released each two years while se features are a step down compared with Forza 4... that is the concept of stagnation... so no as a racing sim my statement is from from false.

- Forza 4 is still considered the peak of the franchise because it was more focused than the actual games of the franchise and it had more sim feature than actual games... of course the graphics are better now because well you have more power to work on... but physics simulation, AI are steps back from Forza 4. GTS is only not considered the best GT in the series until you play it fully... any fan that touched the MP have different opinions after initial misconceptions... it is not hard to find post like “I was wrong about GTS...” here, in GTPlanet, or any other gaming community... the genre envolved for better and GTS is leading the genre in consoles... racing in a racing sim was never so fun before like it is in GTS.

- Yes GTS is the most complete and polished GT ever created and that has nothing to do with Forza... GTS is the fist GT game in decades to have a clear focus in both SP and MP content... the SP is basically a racing driving school that really teach you everything you needs to envolve and race in both the game and real life... it is well made and complete for every single track in the game. It is really an accomplish what PD did here making a must to play SP content instead the unfocused loads of content in previous games. And the MP is basically the envolve of the racing sim genre and the pioneer in consoles... it is no brainer to relate it with the successful features found in iRacing on PC where it takes a lot of inspirations. GTS is really well made and polished in every single part of the game and it cover all sides of it goal to make you a racer... so no I’m not drunk so cut the useless attacks.

- The complete experience found in GTS can’t be found in any other racing sim and it is tons of fun play it... I’m not sure what are your arguing about here.

- Another pointless comment when you can’t counter what I write in the first place... I have real world experience to make my claims... not only I played I talk, listen and share opinion with both fan bases... GTS is the game envolving the genre right now and racing was never so joyful experience.
Let's just agree to disagree then. Your opinions are different to mine. You made a statement, and I rebutted it. You've just basically repeated your first statement. Any reply here would just look like my first. So in order to avoid that, let's just agree to disagree.
 
Jul 1, 2009
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What makes Forza online trash?
The standard of racing quality is just trash. 90% of lobbies are a frustrating experience of first corner wreck fests and no braking rammers. Even cars that managed to get lapped in a 3 lap race aren't ghosted and often fuck with the leaders.

Thrn there's baffling design decisions like how the tire walls suck in cars and shits tires all over the track. The ad signs weight 1000 pounds and can mess you up when they get on track.

I played Forza for 10+ years and finally got tired of it.
 
Likes: Zannrebel
Sep 21, 2018
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It’s just where my taste in cars lies. I couldn’t give a fuck about some ugly ass Lambo or really any supercars in general.

I grew up on GT, and Initial D. My taste in cars formed from there.

The only European car company I care about is Porsche, and BMW prior to the late 2000s (my last car was a E36 M3).

That being said I will always choose GT over Forza because it caters to my tastes. There’s no point in driving cars I don’t enjoy.
I'm from northern Canada, and I didn't know much about Honda until my grandma got one in 1989 because everything here was big-three in the 80s. GT introduced me to the Skylines, Evos, Scoobies, etc. I have a huge affinity to Japanese cars so your stance makes perfect sense. There are actually more Japanese cars in FM7 than in GTS which dropped a lot of the micro cars and small displacement road cars from the roster, that's counting the duplicate cars in GTS like the four 2017 NSX models, or the five 2015 EVO X models. There are around 90 Japanese cars in FM7, many of which can be modified extensively. you can recreate rally or road racing versions of a lot of the cars using the upgrade and modifications in the game.

I wish Project Gotham Racing was still a thing.
A lot of the people that made up that studio are now working at Playground Games, along with some Criterion and Codemasters people. I'm sure if enough people asked for it, it could happen, or at least something similar. The racing genre needs another PGR style racing game based in real world locations. Nobody recreated real city scapes like Bizarre.

Fine but there is no discussion when you made useless points with personal attacks to begin with.

- No.

- What changed from Forza 5 to Forza 7? It is basically the same game released each two years while some features are a step down compared with Forza 4... that is the concept of stagnation... so no as a racing sim my statement is far from false.

- Forza 4 is still considered the peak of the franchise because it was more focused than the actual games of the franchise and it had more sim feature than actual games... of course the graphics are better now because well you have more power to work on... but physics simulation, AI are steps back from Forza 4. GTS is only not considered the best GT in the series until you play it fully... any fan that touched the MP have different opinions after initial misconceptions... it is not hard to find post like “I was wrong about GTS...” here, in GTPlanet, or any other gaming community... the genre envolved for better and GTS is leading the genre in consoles... racing in a racing sim was never so fun before like it is in GTS.

- Yes GTS is the most complete and polished GT ever created and that has nothing to do with Forza... GTS is the fist GT game in decades to have a clear focus in both SP and MP content... the SP is basically a racing driving school that really teach you everything you needs to envolve and race in both the game and real life... it is well made and complete for every single track in the game. It is really an accomplish what PD did here making a must to play SP content instead the unfocused loads of content in previous games. And the MP is basically the envolve of the racing sim genre and the pioneer in consoles... it is no brainer to relate it with the successful features found in iRacing on PC where it takes a lot of inspirations. GTS is really well made and polished in every single part of the game and it cover all sides of it goal to make you a racer... so no I’m not drunk so cut the useless attacks.

- The complete experience found in GTS can’t be found in any other racing sim and it is tons of fun play it... I’m not sure what are your arguing about here.

- Another pointless comment when you can’t counter what I write in the first place... I have real world experience to make my claims... not only I played I talk, listen and share opinion with both fan bases... GTS is the game envolving the genre right now and racing was never so joyful experience.

I can understand some hate for changes made by GTS... human are used to hate what is diferente even when it is better... the content (read tracks and cars) even being enough at launch was not what most expected... but it was a game created to have constant updates to never left you without any new thing to play so every single month you receive new tracks (at least new layout) and cars... even the unless and boring old mode GT League was added (it is add nothing for the racing... GTS still shines with the original SP content that is increased with each new track/layout that teach you pretty well how to race).
Before anything, I'm going to say I have no issue with your opinion of what series you prefer, you obviously really like GTS and that's just fine, I'm not a big fan if the direction it's taken the franchise though. I can write a book about blue being better than red, and after reading it people will still like red because opinions are like me, and every asshole has a bird in the hand? So don't be offended by anything I type, it's all discussion. It's just like you said yourself, people tend to hate what is different even when it is better, so I don't expect you to change your mind anytime soon, but you seem to choose to ignore that there have been several big improvements to the Forza franchise since Forza 4.

Improved from Forza 4 to 7:

-Full weather system ranging from overcast to all out lightning storms with torrential downpours. Puddles can form on the track in low spots, and will dry up after the storm passes. Large puddles cause hydroplaning.
-Weather conditions drop track temperatures in real-time during races, which affects tire temperature, which affects handling.
-Night racing was added including dynamic headlights that can be broken in a crash leaving you with no headlights in a race with sim damage active.
-Dynamic skyboxes, not as complex as in Horizon, but still dynamic.
-Laser scanned tracks started appearing in FM5.
-Cockpit view is no longer a magic carpet ride over the road as camera motion effects have been added in addition to properly rendered track surfaces (they can also be disabled if you prefer the feeling of driving an old Cadillac).
-Experimental drag, basically a much improved drag series using trees instead of the old countdown and false starts are included.
-Steering angle axis modification parts and tuning for drift cars
-More cars on track.
-Ability to select race length manually. Any race in the game's career races can be made a short sprint race or an hour long endurance race based on how much time you have/want to play.
-Physics model is much more detailed than in 4. The new engine started in Forza 5 and featured a better tire model, more robust damage simulation system, etc. Playing them back-to back is a night and day difference. Being better doesn't make it preferable though, so a lot of people still prefer FM4's handling. I prefer Forza 6 Apex's handling to Forza 7 for instance, it just clicked with me as the cars seemed heavier and more planted. Other people didn't like that.
-Obviously there has been a major UI overhaul every release, sometimes it's worse, somethings are better.
-Driver Gear. You can choose from hundreds of driver racing suits ranging from 1930's leather suits, rally suits, famous driver's suits, the Stig's suit, or fun shit like a knight's armor.
-Forzathon was introduced, giving you list of objectives to complete for rewards every week and a reason to keep playing SP after finishing the career.
-Driver's legs aren't made out of logs anymore.
-Crates were introduced, and then they were removed due to player feedback.
-Forza Tokens have been removed completely after Forza 6 due to player feedback.
-Race regulations are coming in the new year due to player feedback.
-Livery editor has been improved, with upcoming options to paint individual sections of wheels due to player feedback.
-Menus are being overhauled tomorrow due to player feedback.
-Force feedback is being overhauled tomorrow due to player feedback.
-Shitty biker bar menu music. I really don't like FM7's menu music, it makes me want to pour molten steel in my ears. Where's the player feedback when I need it?
-Removal of Kinect garbage.
-Dan Greenawalt seems to have stopped talking as much at press events.


Forza 7 is better in almost every respect than 4, though it is missing fan favorites like Fujimi Kaido, and obviously Toyota isn't involved anymore other than the handful of race cars and trucks in FM7. The only major thing I give FM4 over FM7 is custom public lobbies. The reason 4 is still so widely revered in the series is because it was a massive jump from FM3 to FM4, then FM5 was a content wasteland for the same reason GT3 was, they had to have a new console launch title ready in a short time frame. Lots of people are still stuck on that. Forza hasn't been stagnating since 4 though, it's been limited by a two-year release window which has finally been lifted, and the additions to correct the issues with FM7 have already started. It had plenty of content right from launch though. What they need to focus on now is better car models, as a lot of the cars in FM have errors that go back to the first game. With playground having recently hired a bunch of people just for car modeling, there's hope that there will be an improvement.

I disagree with you about GTS being complete too. It lacks many of the things every other game in the category has included this gen, and it's predecessor included. No weather, no night racing, no damage model. Though I don't own GTS, I have played it on my friend's PS4 for a few hours deciding if I was willing to get a PS4 for it. It didn't convince me like it's predecessors would have. I have every other GT game, and I've enjoyed every one of them until GT5 hit and it started losing it's charm. Each game added something missing from the previous game. I bought my own PS for GT as it was the first game like it I'd ever seen. GT2 added so many cars, so many places to race. GT3 released and I bought a PS2 for it. It cut back on content but the visuals and the handling saw huge upgrades. I'd compare it to Forza 5, less of everything, but everything that was there was better. GT4 dumbed the handling down IMO, but the car count skyrocketed, we got the first taste of wet track racing even if it was more of a beta of wet track racing. GT5 Prologue came out and I bought a PS3 for it, it was a demo. In GT5 the standard/premium car/track thing sucked, and the game looked somehow rougher than Prologue. By now I had played Forza 2, PGR, and other racing games on the market so I had started to notice areas the game was lacking in compared to those titles. GT on the PSP let me shoot a UMD across the room when races got tense. After Forza 4 had been around for quite a while we got GT6 and although it's been patched up since release, it really offered nothing new over GT5 other than the revised handling, it's by far the least played GT in my collection because I had Horizon, Forza 5 which was a gen ahead, Grid 2, and a backlog of other racing games I found more interesting. GTS released, and gone are more than half the cars, tracks, an gameplay options. The handling model felt off the first time I played (and I really don't like the PS4's controller), the July update apparently fixed a lot of things but it's not as good IMO as FM7 or PCars2. It is the first GT with decent car sounds, but I wouldn't say it's much better than the first Forza on the OG Xbox (the doppler effect in replays is extremely well done though). The single player is not a complete SP experience at all either, it's clearly a tutorial for the online mode. While the driving school approach is commendable (I actually liked the license tests in prior GT games), it should have been a part of the SP game mode like license tests were, not the entire SP campaign. I loved the weird pacing of GT's SP mode over the years. The funky jazzy music in the messy but endearing menus. Half the challenge in GT was figuring out where the fuck they put shit in the menus. Goofy shit like the car wash and oil change system were always fun too and added a charm to the series. All GTS has over it's predecessors is it's online play and Scapes mode, which to me isn't worth what it left behind. Probably the best addition it brings is finally having a livery editor.

On top of all that, GTS now offers car microtransactions on an incomplete $80 game right after T10 was chased around with torches and pitchforks for the same thing. I've seen people defending it because of free updates, but the stuff in the updates should have been in the game from the start. GTS is just GT with it's soul ripped out. It's not a bad game, but it's not something I really want to spend a lot of time with.
 
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Fine but there is no discussion when you made useless points with personal attacks to begin with.

- No.

- What changed from Forza 5 to Forza 7? It is basically the same game released each two years while some features are a step down compared with Forza 4... that is the concept of stagnation... so no as a racing sim my statement is far from false.

- Forza 4 is still considered the peak of the franchise because it was more focused than the actual games of the franchise and it had more sim feature than actual games... of course the graphics are better now because well you have more power to work on... but physics simulation, AI are steps back from Forza 4. GTS is only not considered the best GT in the series until you play it fully... any fan that touched the MP have different opinions after initial misconceptions... it is not hard to find post like “I was wrong about GTS...” here, in GTPlanet, or any other gaming community... the genre envolved for better and GTS is leading the genre in consoles... racing in a racing sim was never so fun before like it is in GTS.

- Yes GTS is the most complete and polished GT ever created and that has nothing to do with Forza... GTS is the fist GT game in decades to have a clear focus in both SP and MP content... the SP is basically a racing driving school that really teach you everything you needs to envolve and race in both the game and real life... it is well made and complete for every single track in the game. It is really an accomplish what PD did here making a must to play SP content instead the unfocused loads of content in previous games. And the MP is basically the envolve of the racing sim genre and the pioneer in consoles... it is no brainer to relate it with the successful features found in iRacing on PC where it takes a lot of inspirations. GTS is really well made and polished in every single part of the game and it cover all sides of it goal to make you a racer... so no I’m not drunk so cut the useless attacks.

- The complete experience found in GTS can’t be found in any other racing sim and it is tons of fun play it... I’m not sure what are your arguing about here.

- Another pointless comment when you can’t counter what I write in the first place... I have real world experience to make my claims... not only I played I talk, listen and share opinion with both fan bases... GTS is the game envolving the genre right now and racing was never so joyful experience.

I can understand some hate for changes made by GTS... human are used to hate what is diferente even when it is better... the content (read tracks and cars) even being enough at launch was not what most expected... but it was a game created to have constant updates to never left you without any new thing to play so every single month you receive new tracks (at least new layout) and cars... even the unless and boring old mode GT League was added (it is add nothing for the racing... GTS still shines with the original SP content that is increased with each new track/layout that teach you pretty well how to race).
GT sport does indeed have the best online component. Its the only racer on consoles that encourages clean racing. Something I wish Forza 7 would take seriously.


However, GT sport is far too sterile and flawed to be taken seriously as a sim racer. It could have all the features in the world but what good is that when the core driving experience is flawed?

Why has it taken Kaz over a decade to finally implement a tire model into gt sport? The competition has had competent tire models for over a decade now.

Tire model is the most important element in car physics engine for car simulation and it was never a priority to KAZ. That speaks volumes about Kaz and Polphony, wouldn't you agree?

Gt sport has a very limited physics engine, it has an almost non existent tire model with hardly any tire flex. Turbocharged cars do not have simulated boost pressure, its basically an on and off switch which is the furthest thing from how a real turbocharged vehicle works. Sport also has a linear throttle and each car has the same torque curve. A V8 has the same torque curve as a fucking Mazda Miata. Its absolutely ridiculous.

Here is a perfect example as to why Forza feels a lot more visceral and thrilling. Go and drive a R35 GTR in forza 7 and gt sport. Going at least 60mph in both games, from a roll whilst holding the revs at around 3000rpm floor the throttle and notice the difference in how torque is simulated in both games.

Forza 7 will give you the sensation of pinning you against the seat as the R35 is near peak torque at roughly 5500rpm. Just as the real car would.

The torque curve is not simulated in gt sport so the R35 will gradually increase in speed with no sensation of speed and power. This is why the game feels so sterile and lifeless.

Forza 7 simulates tire flex, tire heart, track tempretures. Boost pressure, torque curve, chassis flex and braking distance with each car is accurate. I'm sure it even simulates brake fade.
 
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Stupid thread: there's literally nothing in common, one is a hard simulation racing game, the other is almost a full arcade game.
I know GT has been lacking in quite a few areas regarding physics (e.g. tire model, drivetrain, etc.), but these have been improved and it’s clearly not an arcade racer. Go try need for speed and drive club, then come back to GT and you’ll see.
 
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GTS is the most complete and polished GT game ever created...
Are you being serious? GTS is like another Prologue. I can't believe anyone would call this thing the most complete in the series.

Sure, the online is good, but the game is lacking otherwise. I was very disappointed with it.
 
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I'm from northern Canada, and I didn't know much about Honda until my grandma got one in 1989 because everything here was big-three in the 80s. GT introduced me to the Skylines, Evos, Scoobies, etc. I have a huge affinity to Japanese cars so your stance makes perfect sense. There are actually more Japanese cars in FM7 than in GTS which dropped a lot of the micro cars and small displacement road cars from the roster, that's counting the duplicate cars in GTS like the four 2017 NSX models, or the five 2015 EVO X models. There are around 90 Japanese cars in FM7, many of which can be modified extensively. you can recreate rally or road racing versions of a lot of the cars using the upgrade and modifications in the game.
Yeah GT helped shape my entire love for cars. There’s something I just love about GT that I don’t find in Forza. Maybe it’s the atmosphere of the menus and the music. There’s something very Japanese about it.

It doesn’t really surprise me about F7 vs. GT:S car count wise. GT Sport for me is taking out some GT500 cars out on a track and just pretending I’m in Super GT. plus the online is amazing. If F7 online is anything like FH4’s trash fire the. I want nothing to do with it.

Now if we’re talking Horizon, I’ve probably got like 300 hours combined in them. I love the Horizon games but Motorsport just isn’t my thing.
 
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Are you being serious? GTS is like another Prologue. I can't believe anyone would call this thing the most complete in the series.

Sure, the online is good, but the game is lacking otherwise. I was very disappointed with it.
It fells complete without any filler (hell they added the useless GT League due request that add nothing to the game)... it teach you from basic to master how to race and when you ends it you are ready for competition even in real life.

It basically a complete racing experience.

It is crazy how each part of the game was designed to make you a driver without waste time... they finally nailed what a racing sim needs to be and that exactly why it envolved the genre.

I understand a lot gamers didn’t like the sim racing focus but that is what GT was made since beginning and now they are finally reaching that goal.

This year was axing for GTS and you can see in every major tournament... the number of viewers is increasing exponentially.

It is like a real life racing tournaments but played on GTS... there is nothing more GTS needs in terms of features or SP content because it is a complete experience.

What it needs is cars and tracks for new tournaments being released regularly and even that PD is showing a great consistent.

But I see people not liking the focus on racing of GTS... even more now that Horizon take the other route making Forza finally shine in sucess (it is already way bigger than the mainline franchise) because there are q lot of gamers that wants gaming content and not racing content like GTS... but GTS finally found it place with a lot of passion and each day more fans are discovering and loving that new world.
 
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It fells complete without any filler (hell they added the useless GT League due request that add nothing to the game)... it teach you from basic to master how to race and when you ends it you are ready for competition even in real life.

It basically a complete racing experience.
As a person that actually participates in motorsport, I have to ask... really? Sure, it gives you some general real world concepts, but thinking that playing GTS prepares you for real world racing is insanely far from the truth. Seat time in GTS is nothing compared to real seat time (or even classroom instruction for that matter).

Hey, you like it a lot - that's fine, but no need for all the hyperbole.
 
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As a person that actually participates in motorsport, I have to ask... really? Sure, it gives you some general real world concepts, but thinking that playing GTS prepares you for real world racing is insanely far from the truth. Seat time in GTS is nothing compared to real seat time (or even classroom instruction for that matter).

Hey, you like it a lot - that's fine, but no need for all the hyperbole.
No hyperbole... that is what happening with GTS and the genre.

3 Million People Watched the FIA-Certified GT Championship World Finals
How ‘Gran Turismo’ Became a Gateway to Real-Life Racing
DRIVING AMBITION How Sony’s Gran Turismo is fuelling a new age of racing drivers
With Gran Turismo, racing esports has come of age
The Stunning Realism Of Gran Turismo Redefines Driving Games With Epic World Final
First FIA Esports winner Igor Fraga chasing real-world racing career

Even Hamilton said he prefers to use GTS to get the feeling of the tracks than the official Merceders simulator.

It is weird to see here posters having a wrong ideia of the game when everybody that take it time to play it is loving it... it is growing and becoming a massive success and that is only the first year.

GTS envolved the genre to the new heights... it is changing the genre... everything is happening right now with GTS being the spotlight.
 
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How do physics compare in both games? I thought Forza has better physics simulation but GT has better car detail.
Depends on the person. Vt (and others) will say Forza has the upper hand. Meanwhile, myself (and others) say GT has the superior physics implementation. Try them both out and see which one you personally think works better.
 
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Depends on the person. Vt (and others) will say Forza has the upper hand. Meanwhile, myself (and others) say GT has the superior physics implementation. Try them both out and see which one you personally think works better.
I think that is the best advise right now.

And a hint the driving physics of GTS and specially the tyre model changed a lot thought this year... so you need to check yourself to see how it is.
 
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Forza Horizon having the Forza title is really hurting Forza 7 sales, biggest mistake they've ever made.

However critics rate it highly, even now, especially those that specialize in racing games. GT has been having issues with critics for awhile now.

However GT is going down in sales as well, it may sell less than GT6. Those 9+ million days are long gone.
 
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Forza Horizon having the Forza title is really hurting Forza 7 sales, biggest mistake they've ever made.

However critics rate it highly, even now, especially those that specialize in racing games. GT has been having issues with critics for awhile now.

However GT is going down in sales as well, it may sell less than GT6. Those 9+ million days are long gone.
It already sold more than GT6 that is not a benchmark for the franchise because it sold really crap (5mish).

GTS already has over 6 million profiles created and it increasing an avg. 9k per week (I did not check in November yet that probably increase the rate due Black Friday and start of holiday sales)... it is not sales but it give you an ideia.
 
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Only a little while ago it was at 3.3 million it had not outsold GT6.
It was not.

In May 14 it was shared the franchise SELL-THROUGH over 80.4 million units as of May 5, 2018.

So smart people take the latest SHIPPED data at 77.02 million and subtracted to claim GTS sold 3.3m... when the number used should be SELL-THROUGH too (or both SELL-IN/SHPPED) that was way lower than 77.02 million to make the GTS math (and even so the actual data could be others games sales instead GTS).

I don't have actual data for May but in Mar 26 GTS had already surpassed 4 million profiles (not including Beta).

If you want a history:

Jan 24, 2018: GTS 3481248, Beta 726004, Total 4207252
Jan 26, 2018: GTS 3504429, Beta 721183, Total 4225612
Jan 30, 2018: GTS 3548375, Beta 721183, Total 4269558
Feb 5, 2018: GTS 3621652, Beta 718789, Total 4340441
Feb 9, 2018: GTS 3647602, Beta 718789, Total 4366391
Feb 19, 2018: GTS 3740505, Beta 713310, Total 4453815
Feb 26, 2018: GTS 3818613, Beta 713310, Total 4531923
Mar 4, 2018: GTS 3885703, Beta 708733, Total 4594436
Mar 12, 2018: GTS 3962581, Beta 704265, Total 4666846
Mar 19, 2018: GTS 4030113, Beta 704265, Total 4734378
Mar 26, 2018: GTS 4088249, Beta 704265, Total 4792514
Aug 6, 2018: GTS 5262454, Beta 660346, Total 5922800
Aug 13, 2018: GTS 5305518, Beta 660346, Total 5965874
Aug 21, 2018: GTS 5367021, Beta 660346, Total 6027367
Aug 29, 2018: GTS 5442650, Beta 640842, Total 6083492
Sep 10, 2018: GTS 5540585, Beta 636684, Total 6177269
Sep 27, 2018: GTS 5656841, Beta 636684, Total 6293525

The number of profiles GTS profiles is over 6 million today... to be more accurate it is between 6.1m and 6.2m.

BTW GT6 didn't break 5.5m shipped.
 
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It was not.

In May 14 it was shared the franchise SELL-THROUGH over 80.4 million units as of May 5, 2018.

So smart people take the latest SHIPPED data at 77.02 million and subtracted to claim GTS sold 3.3m... when the number used should be SELL-THROUGH too (or both SELL-IN/SHPPED) that was way lower than 77.02 million to make the GTS math (and even so the actual data could be others games sales instead GTS).

I don't have actual data for May but in Mar 26 GTS had already surpassed 4 million profiles (not including Beta).

If you want a history:

Jan 24, 2018: GTS 3481248, Beta 726004, Total 4207252
Jan 26, 2018: GTS 3504429, Beta 721183, Total 4225612
Jan 30, 2018: GTS 3548375, Beta 721183, Total 4269558
Feb 5, 2018: GTS 3621652, Beta 718789, Total 4340441
Feb 9, 2018: GTS 3647602, Beta 718789, Total 4366391
Feb 19, 2018: GTS 3740505, Beta 713310, Total 4453815
Feb 26, 2018: GTS 3818613, Beta 713310, Total 4531923
Mar 4, 2018: GTS 3885703, Beta 708733, Total 4594436
Mar 12, 2018: GTS 3962581, Beta 704265, Total 4666846
Mar 19, 2018: GTS 4030113, Beta 704265, Total 4734378
Mar 26, 2018: GTS 4088249, Beta 704265, Total 4792514
Aug 6, 2018: GTS 5262454, Beta 660346, Total 5922800
Aug 13, 2018: GTS 5305518, Beta 660346, Total 5965874
Aug 21, 2018: GTS 5367021, Beta 660346, Total 6027367
Aug 29, 2018: GTS 5442650, Beta 640842, Total 6083492
Sep 10, 2018: GTS 5540585, Beta 636684, Total 6177269
Sep 27, 2018: GTS 5656841, Beta 636684, Total 6293525

The number of profiles GTS profiles is over 6 million today... to be more accurate it is between 6.1m and 6.2m.

BTW GT6 didn't break 5.5m shipped.
Taking the 80.4 and subtracting sales of other Gt games leaves GT sport below 4 million so I can't have broken 4 million yet.
 
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Taking the 80.4 and subtracting sales of other Gt games leaves GT sport below 4 million so I can't have broken 4 million yet.
Which other GT games sales??? There is no sell-through for others GT sales since 2010 (60 million).

The only number we have is the number of profiles that it is over 6 million today and it crossed 4 million in mid March.

Kaz itself twitted in July.

 
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lol that is why I avoid sharing opinion here... you get attacked when you do that even when you explain with facts what is happening with the franchises.

Next time I will just put GTS and ends without any explanation.
The funny thing is that no one is really happy with the latest Forza Motorsport installment hence why they're basically redoing the whole game.

https://gamingbolt.com/forza-motorsport-7-redoing-force-feedback-collisions-handling-and-more

Gran Turismo Sport is definitely the superior game at this time.
 
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Why are people worshipping one game and hating on the other. I play them both and love them both. They are soo different right now that its always fresh to jump from one to another. I liked classic GT games more than GTS but GTS is much cleaner and direct with what its doing wich is online racing. Forza on the other hand just expanded in every way with the old formula wich is getting better and better every release and update. After all the updates these both games got after launch they are really amazing and fixing and adding things fans want. And please stop with the sales dicussion, AC sold less then both does that mean AC is a bad sim? IMO Forza is the better franchise because they made soo much progress and add weather, night racing, 750+ cars, 30+ tracks, really good sounds (not only cars), new FFB wheel update, good damage model, advanced tuning, huge single player content and much more customisation. But that doesn't mean that GTS doesn't have nothing to offer. GTS has more race rules, better driving school, cleaner online racing, even if not perfect better online rating system and has the biggest e sport racing tournaments going on. If you love racing games and cars, then you will love both for what they are doing.
 
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PP has put out sales for basically every GT game, what are you talking about?
Source? They shared SHIPPED data for every GT game... you are making the same mistake I pointed before.

80.4 million is SOLD-THROUGH.

If you take and subtract SHIPPED numbers you will have a lower number than actual sales lol.... it is like getting end of 2017 sold-through sales (75m) for PS4 and subtract end of 2016 shipment sales (57.1m) having something like 17.9m when PS4 sold near 20m in 2017.
 
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Source? They shared SHIPPED data for every GT game... you are making the same mistake I pointed before.

80.4 million is SOLD-THROUGH.

If you take and subtract SHIPPED numbers you will have a lower number than actual sales lol.... it is like getting end of 2017 sold-through sales for PS4 and subtract end of 2016 shipment sales having something like 15-16m when PS4 sold near 20m in 2017.
In what world is shipped below sold?

The whole point of shipped is that it hasn't been sold yet, so for shipped numbers to be less than sold wouldn't make much sense.

Also the GT 4/PSP/HT4P/GT5P/GT5 numbers aren't shipped from what I can find, are you saing GT sales from 1-3 were shipped?
 
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In what world is shipped below sold?

The whole point of shipped is that it hasn't been sold yet, so for shipped numbers to be less than sold wouldn't make much sense.

Also the GT 4/PSP/HT4P/GT5P/GT5 numbers aren't shipped from what I can find, are you saing GT sales from 1-3 were shipped?
What are you talking about?

You are doing math SOLD-THROUGH - SHIPPED that give you a number lower than actual sales lol.

80.4m is SOLD-THROUGH.

There is no SOLD-THROUGH numbers from others GTs since 60m in 2010... that means you are using shipment to make the weird claims.

Yeap all PD site sales until GTS release was SHIPMENT.

 
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What are you talking about?

You are doing math SOLD-THROUGH - SHIPPED that give you a number lower than actual sales lol.

80.4m is SOLD-THROUGH.

There is no SOLD-THROUGH numbers from others GTs since 60m in 2010... that means you are using shipment to make the weird claims.
Actually hold on a second.

You're saying that in less than 1 full year, you think GT sport somehow sold over 3 million copies?.
 
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Are you saying PP is lying about individual games sales like GT5?

You keep mentioning 60 million, but we have sold-through for some entries in the series, we have GT5 sales for example, those aren't shipped so what are you talking about?
Laying? They say right in the * that it is sell-in (shipped) lol

Ohhhhh I made a mistake... the 60 million was SELL-IN (SHIPPED): https://www.sie.com/en/corporate/release/2010/101210.html

80.4m is the first time they shared SELL-THROUGH.

Again we don't have SELL-THROUGH except for the franchise (80.4m).
GT5 sales are SHIPPED.

Actually hold on a second.

You're saying that in less than 1 full year, you think GT sport somehow sold over 3 million copies?.
More like over 5 million in less than year.
 
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Laying? They say right in the * that it is sell-in (shipped) lol

Ohhhhh I made a mistake... the 60 million was SELL-IN (SHIPPED): https://www.sie.com/en/corporate/release/2010/101210.html

80.4m is the first time they shared SELL-THROUGH.
The article says 77 million was shipped before. And all those numbers in your chart were part of that 77 million shipped. That means GTS wasn't part of the 77 million.

You're claiming GTS sold over 5.3 million in one year since you say it outsold GT6 with no information. If GTS sold 5+ million in one year it would be the fastest selling GT game of all time, not possible.
 
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The article says 77 million was shipped before. And all those numbers in your chart were part of that 77 million shipped. That means GTS wasn't part of the 77 million.

You're claiming GTS sold over 5.3 million in one year since you say it outsold GT6 with no information. If GTS sold 5+ million in one year it would be the fastest selling GT game of all time, not possible.
GT5 shipped 5.5m in less than a month... it is the fastest selling GT game of all time.

77.02m is shipped.
80.4m is sold.

What it was sold at 77.02m? 76.5m? 76m? 75.5m? It it was 76m then it GT games SOLD 4.4m since the 77.02m shipped was shared (Sep 30, 2017) until the 80.4m sold was shared (May 5, 2018).
 
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GT5 shipped 5.5m in less than a month... it is the fastest selling GT game of all time.
And your source for this is?

Because 5.5 million is for players and players don't = sales, and if it was the fastest selling GT PP would have said so and wouldn't have said a few months ago it was trying to "imporve" sales.

Also we would see it in higher places in JP and Euro charts.