Forza Motorsport Vs. Gran Turismo. Better Sim Franchise? -poll-

Better Sim Franchise?


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Mar 19, 2013
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OMG.

+ UK profiles matches with UK sales with little difference.
+ JP profiles matches with JP sales with little difference.

Now some weird dude says the rest of profiles (over 6.1 million) won’t match worldwide sales with little difference.

You see how you say is crazy bullshit?

Profiles at 6.1m means sales are north 5m peharps over 5.5m.

PD next milestone is 90m maybe you will luck if they give anything before that after they sift from shipment to sales report.
 

Magik85

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Aug 21, 2018
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Non of it is a sim really.
But if i had to pick id say FM > GT.
It would be hard to pick between FM7 and GTS but looking at whole franchise im gonna give it to Forza.
Especially in old times (FM vs GT4 or FM2 vs GT:p) Foza was ahead. Things like damage and weight transfer were much better.
Then GT improved alot its driving model and added dynamic weather + TOD which was great.
Pitty that modern GT doesnt really simulate weather.
 
Aug 24, 2016
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OMG.

+ UK profiles matches with UK sales with little difference.
+ JP profiles matches with JP sales with little difference.

Now some weird dude says the rest of profiles (over 6.1 million) won’t match worldwide sales with little difference.

You see how you say is crazy bullshit?

Profiles at 6.1m means sales are north 5m peharps over 5.5m.

PD next milestone is 90m maybe you will luck if they give anything before that after they sift from shipment to sales report.
Actually you're wrong on UK sales but that's irrelevant.

I can have 10 profiles on GTS right now. Profiles don't equal sales, and you don't know the sales numbers of the other countries otherwise you would know you profile claim is nonsense. The sales totals we can have even at the highest assumed estimate is still not over 4 million. You don't have any evidence that suggests otherwise. All you have is a poorly thought-out conclusion that profiles=sales and that's not true. You also must not be much of a GT fan as PP has consistently announced numbers like 5 million and such for the last few games, they will do it again, WHEN they pass 5 million.
 
Aug 24, 2016
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Each one more crow.

35 Videogames Gran Turismo: Sport Sony Computer Ent. 484,933 (2017 sales)

https://eraltd.org/news-events/pres...elps-entertainment-outstrip-the-printed-word/

UK profiles created in 2017: 377,161

PS. PP doesn't exists.
so what you're saying is that the UK is over 100K wrong, how is that close? Do you know the average the UK sales for top selling games? Because that's not remotely close and the number is outdated. Only crow that's being eaten i the one served to you.

Meanwhile, you still haven't shown me those NA, German, etc, sales numbers that make up that other several million. Why? Because it doesn't exist. GTS being over 6 million would be more than the sales we can currently get. So either there's many more profiles than players, or you literally have no proof GT is over 6 million, heck over 5 million. You just keep repating things that have nothing to do with sales over and over and continuing to fail.
 
Nov 5, 2004
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Both are sim cades, not really hardcore sims, but GT is a better sim game than Forza. What they did with GT Sports, making it one of the few if not only really good online racing game where they promote clean racing with big penalties and a driver classes that incentivates players to race clean to move up and be matched with other clean racers.

Gt Sport released barebones, and deserved the low scores it got, but as for today its a very complete game as it receives free updates every months with more cars tracks and simgleplayer races. Even if the focus was always the online mode. Polyphony just shown they vision was the right one to move the franshise forward. I still wished the singleplayer had that car RPG feel that previous GTs had, but that would only make him a better game, not a better sim. Maybe in the next GT they can make the better of both worlds. The online is already pretty much set to make Gran Turismo the e-sport racing game to go.

The Chanpionship they hosted was above everething else i saw in e-Sports, it felt professional as much as a real sports event. Was not by coincidence that the champion Igor Fraga, is also a formula racer in real life.
 
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so what you're saying is that the UK is over 100K wrong, how is that close? Do you know the average the UK sales for top selling games? Because that's not remotely close and the number is outdated. Only crow that's being eaten i the one served to you.

Meanwhile, you still haven't shown me those NA, German, etc, sales numbers that make up that other several million. Why? Because it doesn't exist. GTS being over 6 million would be more than the sales we can currently get. So either there's many more profiles than players, or you literally have no proof GT is over 6 million, heck over 5 million. You just keep repating things that have nothing to do with sales over and over and continuing to fail.
There is nothing wrong with the data.

At end of 2017 UK profiles was 100k lower than it sales in UK.

#FACT

It is for end of 2017 it is probably around 600k sales or more today.

Keep eating.
 
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Aug 24, 2016
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At end of 2017 UK profiles was 100k lower than it sales in UK.
Which isn't close.

You also have no sales data for anything, you're whole argument is based on two countries profiles. You don't know the sales data of the other euro countries or NA, otherwise you'd know all those combined still would not lead to 5 million. So where are the other two million sales coming from man? Why are you so scared to show me sales numbers if it's obvious? Why are you only able to give me UK and Japan profiles? thats' not relevant data. Why is no one on any GT forum I can find saying what you're saying?

Sorry man you don't have anything, you're alone, concede. PP will announce 5 million like usual when they hit it or go over.
 
Mar 19, 2013
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Which isn't close.

You also have no sales data for anything, you're whole argument is based on two countries profiles. You don't know the sales data of the other euro countries or NA, otherwise you'd know all those combined still would not lead to 5 million. So where are the other two million sales coming from man? Why are you so scared to show me sales numbers if it's obvious? Why are you only able to give me UK and Japan profiles? thats' not relevant data. Why is no one on any GT forum I can find saying what you're saying?

Sorry man you don't have anything, you're alone, concede. PP will announce 5 million like usual when they hit it or go over.
I gave you all counties profiles lol

3rd crow in a row.
 
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Aug 24, 2016
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It is close enough to make estimates
You have no evidence of this, you've only posted two countries and in the UK the gap is huge. Where is your source on this for Germany? NPD? KOREA? ME? FRANCE? Anything?

You don't have any, at this point you're clearly just going in circles. Heck, again we take the sales we KNOW or can estimate for GTS biggest selling ares it's not even at 5 million. I don't know why you can't just show me where the 6 million is from, this shouldn't be hard since you said it was obvious. (actually you said it likely didn't go over 5.5 million and then changed ti to saying it's over 6 million so you've been inconsistent this entire time honestly.)
 
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You have no evidence of this, you've only posted two countries and in the UK the gap is huge. Where is your source on this for Germany? NPD? KOREA? ME? FRANCE? Anything?

You don't have any, at this point you're clearly just going in circles. Heck, again we take the sales we KNOW or can estimate for GTS biggest selling ares it's not even at 5 million. I don't know why you can't just show me where the 6 million is from, this shouldn't be hard since you said it was obvious. (actually you said it likely didn't go over 5.5 million and then changed ti to saying it's over 6 million so you've been inconsistent this entire time honestly.)
Yes UK 2017 gap has more sales than profiles lol learn to read... that goes against everything you tried to say in this thread lol

GTS UK 2017 confirmed sales: ~484k

GTS UK 2017 confirmed profiles: ~377k

Your own comments go against yourself... I’m showing the same solid data since beginning... I don’t need to twist actual data lol
 
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Aug 24, 2016
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Yes UK 2017 gap has more sales than profiles lol learn to read... that goes against everything you tried to say in this thread lol

GTS UK 2017 confirmed sales: ~484k

GTS UK 2017 confirmed profiles: ~377k

Your own comments go against yourself... I’m showing the same solid data since beginning... I don’t need to twist actual data lol
You continue to prove my point you have no data on other countries and are basing your claim one one country.

You also intentionally ignored the other points of My post, like you thinking 100k for the UK isn't large. You won't address you said earlier GTS likely did NOT sell 5.5 and changed it to it now has sold over 6 million. You also can't give any info for any other country. You also won't answer why I can add up SALES (not profile) totlas and not get 5 million.

Again you don't have any data. Just desperate, and another thing is you're basically almost entirely by yourself on this, near no one GT boards is repeating what you say. So clearling somethings wrong here. The answer is you have nothing.
 
Mar 19, 2013
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You continue to prove my point you have no data on other countries and are basing your claim one one country.

You also intentionally ignored the other points of My post, like you thinking 100k for the UK isn't large. You won't address you said earlier GTS likely did NOT sell 5.5 and changed it to it now has sold over 6 million. You also can't give any info for any other country. You also won't answer why I can add up SALES (not profile) totlas and not get 5 million.

Again you don't have any data. Just desperate, and another thing is you're basically almost entirely by yourself on this, near no one GT boards is repeating what you say. So clearling somethings wrong here. The answer is you have nothing.
Profiles shows GTS sales are around 5.5m peharps even over that...

The only guy nothing is you lol I back up my claims... not bullshit dreams like you create.
 
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Mar 8, 2018
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Forza generally has better and much more content.
GT has a better driving model and the captures the realistic look better even if the graphics are technically worse.
GT also has a much better online mode due to the penalty system. Forza online is terrible.
However Gt sport has the absolute worst AI and campaign races. Every race is just an overtake challenge where you start from last position against drivers with very little spatial awareness. The first place driver is always super powered and can magically catch up at super speed.
Right now both games are not where they should be imo.
 
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Apr 7, 2006
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Forza generally has better and much more content.
GT has a better driving model and the captures the realistic look better even if the graphics are technically worse.
GT also has a much better online mode due to the penalty system. Forza online is terrible.
However Gt sport has the absolute worst AI and campaign races. Every race is just an overtake challenge where you start from last position against drivers with very little spatial awareness. The first place driver is always super powered and can magically catch up at super speed.
Right now both games are not where they should be imo.
The graphics in GTS are not technically worse......Pull up any analysis on the two games.....DF, SUPER GT etc....or just watch the games in motion.......A.I is not an area where Forza shines either, there are a million videos online to prove that.......Besides, there are various levels of A.I in GT if you want a bigger challenge in SP mode or various tuning settings you can use to give yourself a greater challenge... However, if you really want a challenge like you're saying, that's what sport mode is for and I'm not talking destruction derby in Forza 7.....
 
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The graphics in GTS are not technically worse......Pull up any analysis on the two games.....DF, SUPER GT etc....or just watch the games in motion.......A.I is not an area where Forza shines either, there are a million videos online to prove that.......Besides, there are various levels of A.I in GT if you want a bigger challenge in SP mode or various tuning settings you can use to give yourself a greater challenge... However, if you really want a challenge like you're saying, that's what sport mode is for and I'm not talking destruction derby in Forza 7.....
Tlw delivering the salt yet again. Lol
 
Feb 29, 2016
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The graphics in GTS are not technically worse......Pull up any analysis on the two games.....DF, SUPER GT etc....or just watch the games in motion.......A.I is not an area where Forza shines either, there are a million videos online to prove that.......Besides, there are various levels of A.I in GT if you want a bigger challenge in SP mode or various tuning settings you can use to give yourself a greater challenge... However, if you really want a challenge like you're saying, that's what sport mode is for and I'm not talking destruction derby in Forza 7.....
Sorry, but the polls don't agree, and also...

 
Nov 4, 2015
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I dont get all this forza online is terrible talk?

Is the PC version cross platform? Im just wondering because my experience with it after around 150 hours or so has been stellar. Really competitive close, fair races. Im not having the experience that the usual suspects are saying I should be having.
 
Nov 5, 2013
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Forza generally has better and much more content.
Agreed.

GT has a better driving model and the captures the realistic look better even if the graphics are technically worse.
I don't think GT has had a better driving model since GT4. Many other racers have improved physics well beyond what GT has done to this point (e.g. Forza, Project Cars, Assetta Corsa). GT still doesn't manage to properly convey the difference in vehicle dynamics between front/rear/mid engine cars with front/rear/awd drive trains. I can race different combinations in forza and they provide, more or less, the expected dynamic behavior of the engine/drive train layout. The tire model is also still poor in GT. Far behind what Forza and others are doing. This is arguably the most important factor in a racing simulator. See here for some discussion of the problems in GT Sport: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/flaws-of-the-tyre-model-simulation.374616/

I do think GT has captured the realistic look of lighting better than Forza. Sadly, this doesn't translate well into game play graphics at times.


GT also has a much better online mode due to the penalty system. Forza online is terrible.
Penalty/ranking system is very nice in GT Sport. However, I think stating that Forza online is terrible is going a bit far. I've had many good races online and will continue to do so in Forza.
 
Mar 19, 2013
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Wait, you’re equating the number of profiles that have played GTS to one sale each?
I'm comparing actual sales for the countries that reported it with profiles for the same period and extrapoling to worldwide estimates.

Eg. Country A, B and C has an avg, 10% difference between Profiles and Sales... so I use these 10% to find a estimate for Worldwide sales using the worldwide profiles.
 
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But profiles are not an accurate metric to extrapolate with sales.
I'm using real sales to extrapolate.

Let's give a easy example.

Country A: 100 profiles and 90 units sold
Country B: 100 profiles and 85 units sold
Country C: 100 profiles and 95 units sold

So an avg. of 90 units sold for each 100 profiles in these countries... so I extrapolate that to using worldwide profiles:

1000 WW profiles = 900 units sold.

There is margin of error? Of course but it is close enough to make estimate.

The premisse of the extrapolation is that we actually have units sold and profiles for the same period in some countries... so we have an actual data of how many % of sales you have from determined number of profiles in these countries.
 
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Aug 24, 2016
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But profiles are not an accurate metric to extrapolate with sales.
The issue is Ethomas is using a very terrible argument for pages now. He only has profile numbers for two countries, UK and Japan, and his argument is that since the sales of those two regions for GTS are "close" to the profile count (ignoring the UK number is over 100k difference) than all other countries must follow the same exacmple and 1 profile is somehow equal to One sales which makes zero sense.

Especially since one person can have multiple profiles. While also saying before that GTS likely didn't hit 5.5 o saying it did over 6. he also is claiming to have sales data but as you and I both know profile numbers aren't sales data.
 
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Likes: TheAdmiester
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I dont get all this forza online is terrible talk?

Is the PC version cross platform? Im just wondering because my experience with it after around 150 hours or so has been stellar. Really competitive close, fair races. Im not having the experience that the usual suspects are saying I should be having.
The PC version uses the Xbox OS set up on your PC with Win10, so you're playing on the same servers with all the same Xbox Live friends you've had for years, but also all the same Xbox community console players are playing with.

It all boils down to two factors:

Hoppers - Which hoppers do you use? Short race hoppers result in a higher number of casual players. No-damage hoppers allowing assists also result in higher casual player counts. Pick a hopper with long races, and sim damage active, there will be almost no casual players. It can boil down to luck as well, I spent a couple hours in random hoppers last time I was online, and everyone was behaving like saints.

XBL Friends - Do you have any? Do they play the game? Play with them. It's super easy to find like-minded racers online, there are entire communities of players looking for other clean racers that post their gamertags on forums for you to add. I used to race every sunday in FM2- FM4 and when custom public lobbies were removed for FM3, we managed to fill rooms with people found on various car forums.

The issue is Ethomas is using a very terrible argument for pages now. He only has profile numbers for two countries, UK and Japan, and his argument is that since the sales of those two regions for GTS are "close" to the profile count (ignoring the UK number is over 100k difference) than all other countries must follow the same exacmple and 1 profile is somehow equal to One sales which makes zero sense.

Especially since one person can have multiple profiles. While also saying before that GTS likely didn't hit 5.5 o saying it did over 6. he also is claiming to have sales data but as you and I both know profile numbers aren't sales data.
People can have multiple profiles, and you can buy GTS used as well. So one copy of the game may have both multiple owners, and multiple owners creating multiple profiles. Using profile numbers to determine sales figures is flawed at best. If we used Xbox live account numbers to determine Xbox console sales, things would be looking a lot better for Xbox sales this year.
 
Likes: TheAdmiester
Jan 28, 2014
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People can have multiple profiles, and you can buy GTS used as well. So one copy of the game may have both multiple owners, and multiple owners creating multiple profiles. Using profile numbers to determine sales figures is flawed at best. If we used Xbox live account numbers to determine Xbox console sales, things would be looking a lot better for Xbox sales this year.
This sums it up better than I did. If you go by some of the reactions of past Forza "active users" threads you'd think they sold one copy that every single player shared. If we're putting Forza's profiles > sales mapping under the microscope then GTS should get exactly the same treatment.
 
Oct 13, 2014
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All driving games are sims, because they simulate driving. None even come close to what it's like to drive a real car.
In other words, they're just games.
You ever played iRacing, rFactor or Assetto Corsa? There are many nuances within the genre of 'racing games' and to distuingish from Need for Speed Most Wanted (which is a racing game, true that) from a game like Project CARS, where the term 'simulation' applies. Reminds me of people who say all games are roleplaying games "because you play a role". It doesn't work like that.

Sim-wise, when it comes down to the physics, GT and Forza are just as good as the other in most areas. Both simulate somewhat accurate physics in many areas of the vehicle, and both offer believable (not ultra-realistic) vehicle behavior and driving experience. Load change (best simulated in iRacing, followed by ISI sims) in both games feel arcady in many circumstances (as does Project CARS in that regard). When it comes down to a motorsport experience I was very disappointed with Forza 6, and GT6. They cut the endurance mode in GT6 which needs to be in a serious racing game. Forza 6 did offer these.

Also, I found no way in both games to do a qualifying and do other races than those 2 or 3 rounds races where you start from last place or a random position (at least in the first few hours.) I'm used to driving at least 45 minutes, often 90 minutes or more, and I need such long races to feel what is racing about: consistency, lap after lap. Lap-long battles with your enemy, slowly gaining on the runner up lap after lap, or defending your position (un)successfully for ten laps and more. Although both franchise don't have dynamic track surfaces (with road rubbering etc.) that are also influenced by dirt and grass brought from off-track incidents, and by marbles of the tyres. There are also no flat spots on the tyres when locking up under braking. So, both aren't that much of a simulation. When I had to choose between either franchise, as per poll, and it's not only about physics and realism but content too, I'd go for the slightly 'better' Forza.
Well with the possible exception of Grand prix legends anyway. That game requires you to know how to drive a real F1 car almost to even finish one track.
Ah, Grand Prix Legends, my legend. Used to play it with a joystick back when it was released. To be accurate here, you have to know how to drive a real F1 from that era, which is totally different. There is no aerodynamical grip like on nowadays Formula cars – only mechanical grip. You have to work with your wheel, and padle input all the way through, and keeping that right torque – right down-shifting before or while braking is crucial. No aero is helping you here. As awesome as Grand Prix Legends is, it is just as brutal. Low-speed grip is a bit off in GPL, but high-speed grip levels are generally very well simulated and accurate, although a bit too twitchy. Tyre modell however is out-dated by today's standards and iRacing and rFactor 2 here are really state-of-the-art. Then again, driving in GPL is like driving a Triumph Spitfire – it's pure fun.
 
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Interesting he vanished when multiple people pointed out the same flaws.

Sim-wise, when it comes down to the physics, GT and Forza are just as good as the other in most areas. Both simulate somewhat accurate physics in many areas of the vehicle, and both offer believable (not ultra-realistic) vehicle behavior and driving experience. Load change (best simulated in iRacing, followed by ISI sims) in both games feel arcady in many circumstances (as does Project CARS in that regard). When it comes down to a motorsport experience I was very disappointed with Forza 6, and GT6. They cut the endurance mode in GT6 which needs to be in a serious racing game. Forza 6 did offer these.

Also, I found no way in both games to do a qualifying and do other races than those 2 or 3 rounds races where you start from last place or a random position (at least in the first few hours.) I'm used to driving at least 45 minutes, often 90 minutes or more, and I need such long races to feel what is racing about: consistency, lap after lap. Lap-long battles with your enemy, slowly gaining on the runner up lap after lap, or defending your position (un)successfully for ten laps and more. Although both franchise don't have dynamic track surfaces (with road rubbering etc.) that are also influenced by dirt and grass brought from off-track incidents, and by marbles of the tyres. There are also no flat spots on the tyres when locking up under braking. So, both aren't that much of a simulation. When I had to choose between either franchise, as per poll, and it's not only about physics and realism but content too, I'd go for the slightly 'better' Forza.

Ah, Grand Prix Legends, my legend. Used to play it with a joystick back when it was released. To be accurate here, you have to know how to drive a real F1 from that era, which is totally different. There is no aerodynamical grip like on nowadays Formula cars – only mechanical grip. You have to work with your wheel, and padle input all the way through, and keeping that right torque – right down-shifting before or while braking is crucial. No aero is helping you here. As awesome as Grand Prix Legends is, it is just as brutal. Low-speed grip is a bit off in GPL, but high-speed grip levels are generally very well simulated and accurate, although a bit too twitchy. Tyre modell however is out-dated by today's standards and iRacing and rFactor 2 here are really state-of-the-art. Then again, driving in GPL is like driving a Triumph Spitfire – it's pure fun.
One thing about Forza and GT is that they were the big super simulation games on consoles and were for a long while, in in many ways still are, among the best you're going to get on consoles for simulation. Of course simulators, outside brand names like the two mentioned, genera; aren't ever going to be big as they used to because it used to be a mix of the novelty of having "realistic" car driving and content with "realistic" graphics, but now that novelty has worn off and people aren't really interested in simulators anymore, especially since they are no longer a top graphical category., which was another major reason why people were excited for them. Simulators could get back into the interest of many but they seem to have halted and are kind of stuck in limbo.

Also GPL was a good looking game when it came out. One of the reasons why people liked it along with it's then super realistic driving quality. it is however a brutal game.
 
Aug 24, 2016
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Hopefully MS does a good job with the next Xbox so Forza becomes even bigger. Forza MS still sells around 3 or so ish million average but that's the same as last gen. Only Horizon really had an increase, a big increase. It's likely the next Motorsport entry will be a launch games so let's hope they learn from 7 and make that game a spear-heading title.
 
Dec 3, 2013
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How.
Forza and horizon are total douche fests galore in the music and art departments. The drivers even pose like the awful awful rare avatars:


While GT Sport has the best damm UI in any software ever made... it's the perfect screensaver... An hommage to the art cars and landscapes... With coffee piano music...
Again, how.
Why are their hips cocked to one side?

 
Nov 12, 2009
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As a franchise I think Gran Turismo has had the title for forever. However, it is pretty clear that Forza is a better more consistent product. I feel like this started being the case since the PS3. PD just has really little to show while Forza's devs keep delivering over and over again.
 
Aug 24, 2016
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You know looking through the sales info of previous consoles it's kind of sad that these two franchises are the last beacon for big selling racing Sims. On consoles these two are basically alone. Two gens ago there used to be competition.

While PC has more output noithing on there comes close to GT or Forza sales wise, I originally thought Project Cars would catchup with it's sequel but that's not the case.

Its likely once GT and FM die off racing Sims will go the way of the point and click adventure.
 
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