Fracking is deeply misunderstood by a lot of people

[Goodstyle]

So just recently, Susan Surrandon was interviewed by Chris Hayes, and she argued that a lot progressives didn't vote for Hillary because Hillary and the DNC wouldn't support an anti-fracking platform. I mean, nevermind the fact that her opponent has much worst things planned, can we talk about fracking? It was a wedge issue during the Dem primaries and part of what put me on team Hillary.

Fracking isn't this unambiguous evil, it's probably the best method we have of extracting natural resources right now. Some argue that we shouldn't be doing that at all, and I get that, but if we're going to it should be through fracking. It's why our oil prices are lower than Europe's and why carbon emissions have gone down significantly. Just in Pennsylvania, fracking has led to a 30% reduction in carbon emissions. It creates millions of jobs too.

The problems do exist, but those can partially be attributed to poor regulation, an issue that can be dealt with. I'm not going to pretend it's perfect though, some people will stand against it no matter what on principle (after all it alters the Earth's landscape irrevocably), but I don't like this idea that it's inherently bad and anyone who is for it makes them someone you absolutely can't support. It's a lot more nuanced than that and there is a value in discussion.

 

[Yaboosh]

Fracking seems like it is on shaky ground in Oklahoma.

 

[pxleyes]

Guess what changed

 

[NewFresh]

I think you will hear a lot of people who have real and justified concerns with things like increasing amounts of earthquake and possible runoff from fracking sites. Someone will post the increase in earthquakes image you usually see floating around.

But I agree with you op, I think there are some benefits that can come from it. Sadly regulations seem to be going in the more lax direction than I would like.

 

[Abstrusity]

Sure, let's just make sure it's not causing tectonic shifts, or say, I don';t know, maybe not do it when your entire state is limestone over a goddamn aquifer like is the case in Florida. Cascading sinkholes and contaminated water = bad times.

 

[gotstrangepowers]

It's so great that Tillerson sued to stop it near his home...

"Exxon Mobil's CEO has joined a lawsuit to stop construction of a water tower near his home that would be used to in the fracking process to drill for oil."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/02/22/exxon-mobil-tillerson-ceo-fracking/5726603/

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Guess what changed

I've heard of this, but has there been any research into fracking leading to increased earthquake frequency? Or just correlationat this point.

 

[BadenBadenLily]

Everybody needs to watch Gasland.

Fracking is great when it's not your tap water that is catching on fire.

 

[Foffy]

To normalize fracking is to normalize abuse.

This shit is linked to earthquakes, fam.

Better than coal? Sure. Good by itself? Fuck outta here, hookers.

 

[Tuber]

Guess what changed

I've read that those quakes are more likely caused by wastewater injection for disposal post-frack rather than the fracking process itself, but I'll go look for a citation on that.

Edit: https://earthquake.usgs.gov/research/induced/myths.php

 

[Ferrio]

Fracking isn't this unambiguous evil,

Let's revisit this in a couple decades when places are completely unlivable due to contamination or devastated because nothing was ever built to withstand earthquakes?

 

[TAJ]

It's so great that Tillerson sued to stop it near his home...

"Exxon Mobil's CEO has joined a lawsuit to stop construction of a water tower near his home that would be used to in the fracking process to drill for oil."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/02/22/exxon-mobil-tillerson-ceo-fracking/5726603/

And we're done here.

 

[xxracerxx]

I've read that those quakes are more likely caused by wastewater injection for disposal post-frack rather than the fracking process itself, but I'll go look for a citation on that.

Edit: https://earthquake.usgs.gov/research/induced/myths.php

I mean, isn't post-fraking considered part of the fraking process?

 

[kirblar]

Fracking seems like it is on shaky ground in Oklahoma.

It's not the reason for the quakes- it's the wastewater injection done by the oil industry as a whole: https://earthquake.usgs.gov/research/induced/myths.php

 

[Deleted member 22576]

I definitely have a pretty vague understanding of what it is and its impact. I could probably explain to a 5 year old but thats about as far as it goes.

 

[Goodstyle]

I think you will hear a lot of people who have real and justified concerns with things like increasing amounts of earthquake and possible runoff from fracking sites. Someone will post the increase in earthquakes image you usually see floating around.

But I agree with you op, I think there are some benefits that can come from it. Sadly regulations seem to be going in the more lax direction than I would like.

For sure. I'm of the opinion that we should frack, but heavily regulate it. People that didn't vote due to the issue of fracking allowed an administration into office that will 100% deregulate everything having to do with it.

Also, I am aware of the flaws of fracking. I said in the OP that it isn't perfect. But it lowers carbon emissions, lowers gas prices, and has lifted communities out of poverty. It isn't the remorseless boogey man so many people seem to think it is.

 

[Kthulhu]

It still contributes to climate change. We should be pushing for sustainable energy, not slightly less unsustainable energy.

 

[jay]

Poor regulation is an issue that can be dealt with by a government making attempts to dismantle the EPA?

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

we need to start switching to cleaner, safer energy NOW.

 

[Xe4]

Let's revisit this in a couple decades when places are completely unlivable due to contamination or devastated because nothing was ever built to withstand earthquakes?

That's never going to happen. Contamination of freshwater sources and increased earthquakes are a concern, but certainly not one that will make a place uninhabitable.

Fracking isn't horribly evil (and is a great way to reduce our carbon output at the moment), but it does need a fuck ton of reasearch and regulations.

we need to start switching to cleaner, safer energy NOW.

What do you think natural gas is? As long as nuclear energy is stuck in regulation purgatory, there needs to be a non renewable energy source that is more reliable than wind and solar. Right now, natural gas is the best resource for the job.

 

[TheChewyWaffles]

Everybody needs to watch Gasland.

Fracking is great when it's not your tap water that is catching on fire.

That was a load of bullahit.

 

[Boney]

Arguing on it's cost saving measures is missing the point on a level that would make the Democratic Party proud

 

[Goodstyle]

It's so great that Tillerson sued to stop it near his home...

"Exxon Mobil's CEO has joined a lawsuit to stop construction of a water tower near his home that would be used to in the fracking process to drill for oil."

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2014/02/22/exxon-mobil-tillerson-ceo-fracking/5726603/

And we're done here.

Ya, that's not an argument.

 

[Yaboosh]

It's not the reason for the quakes- it's the wastewater injection done by the oil industry as a whole: https://earthquake.usgs.gov/research/induced/myths.php

What to you is the functional difference?

 

[Rebel Leader]

Can we stop with fracking and just use renewable energy?

 

[Tuber]

I mean, isn't post-fraking considered part of the fraking process?

Sure, that's a fair thing to bring up, but injection isn't the only way to dispose of the waste - it's just the quick and easy way. Companies, unsurprisingly, often run with that rather than safer options.

That said, while I'm on the more idealistic "we shouldn't even be extracting more fossil fuels" side and I'm not a fracking proponent, it does prove what OP is saying to claim fracking directly causes the quakes.

 

[Zutroy]

Although my knowledge with fracking is fairly minimal and uneducated, my two main issues with it are:

1. It seems old school. The research and money used to invest in it could be used for extracting energy that's more sustainable and greener in the long term (i.e. Solar, tidal, wind)

2. I don't trust the companies that want to frack for a second to take environmental and human interests into concern. I think they'd happily destroy animal sanctuaries and destroy small communities if they're "in the way" of accessing land they want.

 

[Stumpokapow]

So just recently, Susan Surrandon was interviewed by Chris Hayes, and she argued that a lot progressives didn't vote for Hillary because the Hillary and the DNC wouldn't support an anti-fracking platform.

This honestly isn't true, right off the jump.

 

[Glix]

Fracking seems like it is on shaky ground in Oklahoma.

Fucking amazing first post

 

[jay]

Ya, that's not an argument.

Rich powerful people want to do a thing but not where they live is an argument for the inherent questionability of said thing.

 

[royalan]

It still contributes to climate change. We should be pushing for sustainable energy, not slightly less unsustainable energy.

People aren't pushing for fracking as the next major source of energy.

People are pushing for it as a bridge fuel. A stopgap to lower our reliance on coal until clean energy sources are viable enough to take on the role.

 

[Goodstyle]

Arguing on it's cost saving measures is missing the point on a level that would make the Democratic Party proud

Again, it does a lot more than that. It reduced our carbon foot print significantly in communities that used other methods to extract natural resources. Last I checked, that mattered to liberals.

we need to start switching to cleaner, safer energy NOW.

It still contributes to climate change. We should be pushing for sustainable energy, not slightly less unsustainable energy.

I agree. But a lot of the clean energy alternatives don't have a fraction of the power necessary yet. Solar and wind energy isn't quite on the level of natural gasses yet, and a lot of communities depend on the resources that those things provide. I believe we should be investing in wind and solar, but totally shutting down the use of natural gas just isn't feasible.

 

[Kenai]

I've heard of this, but has there been any research into fracking leading to increased earthquake frequency? Or just correlationat this point.

Would be nice if studies about it would be allowed to occur, though I'm not sure if it's a lack of funding or a lack of available ways to test or something else. It's kind of a catch 22 at this point where we simultaneously don't have much information and very little meaningful research is done.

That in itself is a bit of a red flag though, since a lot of times that means certain parties are worried what will be found (like the gun industry, and the pharmaceutical industry)

 

[leroidys]

I mean, isn't post-fraking considered part of the fraking process?

Yes, but other states that are fracking aren't having the same issues that Oklahoma is having. Good thing Pruitt is going to lead the EPA and make sure states everywhere get their fare share of manmade earthquakes.

 

[kirblar]

What to you is the functional difference?

The issue isn't "fracking", it's the total level of wastewater produced by the industry as a whole in a specific area.

Yes, fracking produces a lot, but that's not an argument against fracking, that's an argument about not regulating the industry properly so that you are keeping the waste levels within a level where you're not causing f'ing earthquakes on a regular basis.

 

[Already Torn]

To normalize fracking is to normalize abuse.

This shit is linked to earthquakes, fam.

Better than coal? Sure. Good by itself? Fuck outta here, hookers.

^^^
Plus the mismanaged pollution stuff is still bad. I would agree that we shouldn't outright ban it, but like its not good. I hate it when someone who took a Geology class once brings out their soapbox to defend fracking.

 

[andythinkpad]

If you don't mind minor earthquakes all the time, sorry.

 

[Goodstyle]

This honestly isn't true, right off the jump.

I got it from twitter. Person I follow is usually reliable, here was the tweet.

 

[Tuber]

What to you is the functional difference?

Okay, I'll run my mouth one more time and then stop, I promise.

The wastewater injection that is correlated with more quakes isn't strictly fracking related. Fracking can be done without wastewater injection, and wastewater injection is done for things other than fracking. It's bad, and fracking isn't perfect, but fracking isn't directly causing the problems in OK with seismic activity.

 

[FUME5]

I'm an environmental consultant in Western Australia, we have done quite a bit of work for a fracking company over here.

Whenever it comes up with my mostly lefty friends I basically have to tell them to shut the fuck up, they point to horror stories from places where the regulations were incredibly lax, which is certainly not the regulatory environment companies are operating under in this state.

As of yet, none of their operations have resulted in any soil, air or groundwater contamination for the sites we monitor.

People with half of the facts are a giant pain in the arse.

 

[kirblar]

I got it from twitter. Person I follow is usually reliable, here was the tweet.

The quote's correct, Sarandon's incorrect.

 

[gotstrangepowers]

"The Fracking Process Is Now The Leading Cause Of Earthquakes In Texas"

https://thinkprogress.org/the-frack...-earthquakes-in-texas-b78a99d8b23d#.t5pe8ueo0

 

[slit]

Fine, then let them tell us what fucking chemicals they are mixing with the water they are polluting our ground wells with. Why is there such secrecy around it?

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fracking-can-contaminate-drinking-water/

 

[Dude Abides]

It's a complicated technology and hasn't been around long so it's hard to blame people.

And given the history of extractive industries a presumption that something the favor is bad is probably justified.

 

[Vic_Viper]

what the Frack are you talking about?

 

[Deleted member 80556]

My biggest worry about fracking, at least in Colombia, is that the government hasn't given a crap about documenting or investigating underground fresh water locations, increasing the risk of contaminating the water that future generations might need.

And that's just the biggest one off the top of my head, I should review a bit more about it before talking further in this topic.

 

[Boney]

In what reality are regulations followed by energy companies anywhere. Best case scenario they get fined for having done irresponsible waste disposal methods and it's just an operating cost and a slap in the wrist.

 

[Goodstyle]

The quote's correct, Sarandon's incorrect.

Derp, I'm a huge dip.

I'm an environmental consultant in Western Australia, we have done quite a bit of work for a fracking company over here.

Whenever it comes up with my mostly lefty friends I basically have to tell them to shut the fuck up, they point to horror stories from places where the regulations were incredibly lax, which is certainly not the regulatory environment companies are operating under in this state.

As of yet, none of their operations have resulted in any soil, air or groundwater contamination for the sites we monitor.

People with half of the facts are a giant pain in the arse.

Interesting perspective. You would have HATED watching the Dem primaries then lol.

 

[plidex]

People that didn't vote due to the issue of fracking allowed an administration into office that will 100% deregulate everything having to do with it.

I doubt the amount of people that didn't vote due to fracking changed anything.

 

[A Fish Aficionado]

This honestly isn't true, right off the jump.

Surandon is a very Jill Stein sort of person.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFmn7woKylQ