France: Four shot dead outside Jewish school in Toulouse

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Umm, 20% of France's population is foreign-born. They have the largest number of blacks in all of Europe. The French may be snobbish about their food, art, and entertainment, but they're multicultural where it counts (i.e. beyond the superficial).

Moreover, when Merkle said that "multiculturalism has utterly failed" in Europe, she wasn't talking about Lebonese food.
 
That's the republican ideal, but there are lots of racist people who think otherwise.
We just need to expel these idiots, trying to take back the country to a state the country never had is one of the stupidest thing one can do.
We can do away with them.

Umm, 20% of France's population is foreign-born. They have the largest number of blacks in all of Europe. The French may be snobbish about their food, art, and entertainment, but they're multicultural where it counts (i.e. beyond the superficial).

Moreover, when Merkle said that "multiculturalism has utterly failed" in Europe, she wasn't talking about Lebonese food.
You'll have to define better multiculturalism then because by the 2nd generation the foreign culture is anything but apparent anyway. It's really no more apparent than another regionalism.
In short, someone who's parents are Itialian, Spanish, American or whathaveyou is really the same as if you said Corsican, from Brest or Paris.
Different places, same idea.
Heck not 120 years ago people from France weren't even always talking French anyway!
 
TOULOUSE SHOOTING: WHO OWNS 11.43mm GUNS?

March 19, 2012



A .45 caliber pistol (11.43 mm in French), REUTERS

The ballistic analyses performed at the scene of the shooting of Toulouse, Monday, March 19, "formally establish that one of weapons used (class 11.43) [...] is the same that was used in Montauban last Thursday and Sunday" reports radio station Europe 1.

Earlier in the morning, police sources quoted by AFP already explained that one of the two weapons used by the killer was the same caliber as that used in the murders of paratroopers. Who owns a semi-automatic, 11.43mm caliber pistol in France?

Marksmen or people who acquired the weapon illegally. The 11.43mm semi-automatic pistol is a handgun that may belong to the 1st or the 4th legal category, and thus subject to authorization. "11.43" means the size of ammunition, 11.43 millimeters, therefore, a little larger than a centimeter in diameter. In the United States, we speak of a .45 caliber (45/100 of an inch). That's a big gun, a semiautomatic pistol adopted by the U.S. Army in 1911 but now out of fashion: it is no longer used by the army (except in some elite units) or the police, which is equipped with 9 mm caliber weapons.

There is an estimated two million (legally obtained) firearm owners in France, but it is impossible to know how many guns are circulating in the country. Handguns have a lifetime of fifty years or more, many weapons present in the area have been purchased or imported before strict rules and records went in place. The Agrippa file that lists all weapon owners dates only from 2007.

Estimates of the total number of firearms, both legal and illegal, vary between 10 and 20 million. The regulation is rather strict in France, and the only people who can legally possess are marksmen, who are about 140,000 licensees of the French Federation of Shooting ("Fédération française de tir", aka FFTir), hunters, who are 1.3 million, collectors and people who need them for their work (police, "gendarmerie", cash transportation, security agents).

Among them, target shooters are those most likely to have a 11.43 caliber pistol: hunters tend to have longer shotguns, 'gendarmes' and policemen do not use this caliber in their trade and collectors rather own beautiful old weapons, which are sometimes nonfunctional.

Difficult to obtain a permit

Among marksmen, however, the 11.43 caliber is quite common, according to practitioners and corresponds to weapons fun to shoot, that don't fire "violently" and are rather accurate. But obtaining a permit of possession for a marksman is particularly regulated.

One must first be licensed to FFTir, be part of a club recognized by the federation and have a book showing the date of three controlled, yearly shooting sessions which are spread across several months. Then you have a preliminary notice issued by the FFTir saying the person is fit to practice before filing the application for authorization to the police or gendarmerie.

The police will then investigate on each applicant, checking for example a medical certificate if the person is not on the list of prohibited firearms, or those under guardianship. It is the prefecture (local jurisdiction) which has the final decision on the permit, which must be renewed every three years and can be removed after certain offenses, including driving offenses.

The permit of possession of firearms should not be confused with the carrying of weapons, which is prohibited, except for professional reasons (policemen, gendarmes, etc.) Marksmen can carry their weapon, but it is heavily regulated: it must be unusable (disassembled, separated from its ammunition, with a security device or in a closed briefcase). Firearms and ammunition must be kept in safes or in fortified cabinets.

Illegal detention

Other people likely to have a 11.43 caliber pistol are those who obtained them illegally. Like the Kalashnikov rifle, semi-automatic pistols circulate in the middle of crime and banditry, mainly to protect all forms of trafficking. The 11.43 caliber pistol is sometimes described as "rogue's weapon" because it was used in a number of criminal cases, including the United States in 1930 and France in the 1950s.

But its presence in the worlds of crime can be explained simply by the fact that it is one of the most widely manufactured handguns in the world during the twentieth century: three million copies are reported made.

The 11.43 mm pistols circulating illegally in France come largely - like the Kalashnikov - from countries of the former Yugoslavia. A motivated person can easily optain a firearm. The National Assembly recently passed a law to simplify the control of weapons including firearms adopting the European system of four categories of weapons instead of the current eight. It also provides for tougher penalties, multiplied by three to four, for illegal possession.

Richard Durn, the author of the massacre at Nanterre in 2002, was a marksman and had bought several guns legally, but his situation was illegal when he acted out. He had not renewed his authorization of detention, and no control over his high caliber guns had been made by the prefecture of the Hauts de Seine, in charge of supervising.
Translated from http://www.slate.fr/france/51785/fusillade-toulouse-arme-pistolet
 
FM: Ashton's Toulouse-Gaza comparison inappropriate

Lieberman blasts EU's foreign affairs commissioner's remarks equating attack on Jewish schoolchildren in France to IAF operations in Gaza; says she should 'worry about Israeli children who live under constant fear of Gaza rockets'


Latest Update: 03.20.12, 11:44 / Israel News


Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman leveled harsh criticism Tuesday against EU Foreign Affairs Commissioner Catherine Ashton over her comparison of the terror attack on a Jewish school in Toulouse, France, to the situation in Gaza, calling them "inappropriate."

Speaking on the sidelines of a meeting of Palestinian youths in Brussels on Monday, Ashton said: "When we think about what happened today in Toulouse, we remember what happened in Norway last year, we know what is happening in Syria, and we see what is happening in Gaza and other places."

Lieberman, who is on official visit to China, said he "hopes Ashton will retract her statement."

"Israel is the most moral country in the world and despite the fact that it has to fight terrorist who operate from within civilian population, the IDF makes every effort possible not to harm that population, despite their defense of the terrorists.

"No army is as ethical as the Israeli army," he continued. "The IDF risks its soldiers' lives in order to minimize risk to civilian population. The children Ashton should be worried about are those living in southern Israel, who are in constant fear of Gaza rocket fire."

Opposition Chairwoman Tzipi Livni (Kadima) echoed Lieberman's sentiment, calling Ashton's comments "misguided, wrong and outrageous. The demand that she retracts her statement is right.

"A hate crime or a leader butchering his people cannot be compared to a state's fight against terror, even if civilians are hurt in that fight."

Defense Minister Ehud Barak vigorously condemned the statements as well, saying:
"The comparison made by Ashton between events in Gaza, Toulouse and Syria is outrageous and disconnected from reality.

"The IDF is operating in Gaza with the utmost care in order to prevent hurting the innocent. I hope the EU foreign affairs commissioner realizes her mistake quickly and retracts her statements," he said.

The attack on Ozar Hatorah School, which is believed to be the work of neo-Nazis, claimed the lives of Rabbi Jonathan Sandler, 30, his 3-year-old and 6-year-old sons Gabriel and Arieh and 8-year-old Miriam Monsonego, daughter of school headmaster Rabbi Yaacov Monsonego.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4205206,00.html
 
I'm slightly confused by the information regarding the handgun. Was the same type of handgun used in both incidents or are they saying the exact same gun was used? I was under the impression forensics needed to obtain the original weapon first to compare ballistic signatures in order to determine whether X bullet came from X gun
 
Latest article on the shooting. They have footage of it.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-...illed-jewish-children/3902616/?site=melbourne

The chief prosecutor in charge of the case says all the victims were shot in the head at point-blank range and has warned that the gunman is likely to strike again because he knows he is being hunted.

French officials have watched security footage of the shooting that shows the gunman grabbing a child by the hair when she tries to escape.

When his weapon jams, he calmly pulls out a second gun, which he then uses to kill her.
 
Shiiiiiiit. Zero affect, ice cold.

I wonder how many movies they're going to make about this horror.


I hope they catch this guy, and then hand him over to Mossad for a little one on one time.
To be honest I find Mossad to be pretty disgusting myself, I'd rather he be held and punished by more responsible authorities.

Besides, Mossad wouldn't care, it's not like they get to 'assassinate' any muslims for it.
 
Wow that's fucked up... was there no witnesses describing who he looks? Was he wearing a ski mask or something? I really hope they identify the inhuman POS...
 
I'm slightly confused by the information regarding the handgun. Was the same type of handgun used in both incidents or are they saying the exact same gun was used? I was under the impression forensics needed to obtain the original weapon first to compare ballistic signatures in order to determine whether X bullet came from X gun
I'm not certain at all, but I think they can tell if individual bullets came from the same gun. At least in TV shows, they confirm that a specific gun matches a bullet from a crime scene by firing a bullet from it and seeing if the test bullet and the bullet from the crime scene had the same markings.

If this is the exact same gun being used in both of the shootings, then I would think that means that this person isn't exactly paranoid about hiding his trail.
 
From the article:

Reports quoted police as saying the 24-year-old they arrested had told them he wanted to avenge the deaths of Palestinian children. He was described as a French national with an Algerian mother. The other suspect is reported to be his brother.
The French news channel BFM TV said the suspect was linked to an Islamist group that it identified as Forsane Alizza but it was not immediately possible to confirm this.

Authorities believe the gunman in Monday's school shooting was the same person responsible for killing three soldiers of North African origin in two shootings last week in Toulouse and the nearby town of Montauban.
I guess that could explain why the school was attacked but it wouldn't explain why the soldiers were attacked. If there's even a rational explanation to be found here that is...
 
The (a) suspect is not even arrested yet and you're already thinking of an explanation?
Of course I am. Why wouldn't I be? Isn't the most natural question one asks one self in a situation like this the question of why?

Anyway, BBC claim Al-Qaeda:

The man inside the building where the operation is taking place has claimed affiliation to al-Qaeda, Interior Minister Claude Gueant told reporters.
The suspect also denounced French "crimes" in Afghanistan.
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17446999
 

catfish

I have a foreskin yet I do not have AIDS
looks like they have got him or his brother now.

Dutch news reports a house surrounded. guy is apparently 24 French national from Toulouse and is best buds with Al-Qaida.

:/

http://nos.nl/artikel/353830-verdachte-toulouse-omsingeld.html

google translate of article.

The police surrounded a building in Toulouse where the suspected perpetrator of the shooting at a Jewish school has entrenched. His brother was arrested on suspicion of involvement in the attack.

The police, who searched two days to the shooter, stormed the house tonight. It came to a firefight. Two officers were slightly injured.

The alleged offender is a man of 24 with the French national living in Toulouse. He challenged the police said that his association with the terrorist organization al-Qaida.

The attack Monday took the lives of a teacher and three children. The culprit, who escaped on a scooter, is still missing. He is also associated with two deadly attacks last week in the same region.
 
The guy is still in his appartment, "negociating" with the Raid (special police forces).


The guy was found thanks to his IP adress and also because he went in a garage of the city and tried to get a paintjob for his scoter. :lol Not suspicious at all ! :lol
 
The guy is still in his appartment, "negociating" with the Raid (special police forces).


The guy was found thanks to his IP adress and also because he went in a garage of the city and tried to get a paintjob for his scoter. :lol Not suspicious at all ! :lol
It works in Grand Theft Auto.
 
No death penalty in France. I would be surprised if this was an al-qaeda attack just because they never hesitate to take responsibility for their attacks.
they do not have control of every cell or crazy person who believes to be part of al queda.

Although al-qaeda and their taliban friends have attacked children before (schools in pakistan and afghanistan)
 
I'm slightly confused by the information regarding the handgun.
I was more amused by what an awesome waste of time it was.

The .45 ACP round is one of the most common rounds in history. It's been around since 1905 and weapons manufacturers around the world are still being making many, many different models of guns to fire them, from pistols to carbine rifles.

The article makes it sound like some rarity of a weapon that must say a lot about the shooter. It really doesn't.
 
Is it possible America will jump in due to the nature of his apparent 'contacts'?

"We'll take it from here boys..."
AHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA
You actually think we'll deliver someone who did nothing to any US interest and killed French national on a French soil?

This guy is beyond fucked anyway, the judiciary system here is even harsher on terrorists than even the US.
And by that I mean he'll have a hard time defending himself if he even gets the chance.
We don't have the death penalty and there's a limitation to life sentences so I'm not talking about that.

He won't see a US citizen for a very long time if at all, that's guarranteed.
 
Wow so it was a muslim guy. I guess that Debbie Schlussel lady gets to say "I told you so". People were initially very reserved and reflective because they thought it may have been a racist nazi type but I suspect the reaction will be very angry now.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/french-police-close-suspects-toulouse-killings-055423403.html

"The suspect is thought to be a 24-year-old man who had previously travelled to the lawless border area between Pakistan and Afghanistan which is known to house al Qaeda safehouses," a French police official told Agence France Press, adding that "a source close to the inquiry told AFP a 24-year-old suspect had exchanged words with the RAID team and had declared himself to be a member of al Qaeda, the armed Islamist group founded by late Saudi extremist Osama bin Laden."

The same .45 caliber gun has reportedly been used in three separate shooting incidents the past 9 days that have killed seven people in the Toulouse area. Those killed include four people at the Jewish school this week, as well as three French troops of North African and Caribbean descent, killed in two separate incidents last week. The sniper attacks, perpetrated by a gunman riding a black Yamaha scooter, have occurred every four days over the past two weeks, reports said.

The chief suspect is reported to have cited the death of Palestinian children as the reason for the attacks, and to have targeted the French troops of (like himself) North African descent because he considered them traitors. Some reports say he previously served as a French soldier in Afghanistan. Police reportedly tracked him based on recent emails trying to sell his motorbike.

Killed in the attacks on Ozar Hatorah school in Toulouse Monday were Jonathan Sandler, a rabbi and teacher at the school, his two sons, ages 3 and 6, and an 8-year-old girl, daughter of the head teacher. A fifth person, a 17 year old boy, was also wounded in the attacks, in which the gunman shot his targets in the head.
 
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