They're usually in MMO worlds.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
From Persona 5 to Project Re Fantasy - What do you want to see?
- Thread starter BRSxIgnition
- Start date
They're usually in MMO worlds.
Mediking
Member
Lmao. Do you know who the Osaka Team is and how they handled some Kingdom Hearts games? Just wondering.
StereoVsn
Member
"From the creators of Persona 5 comes a thrilling epic of a middle aged Otaku being thrown inside the world of MMO."
I am sure Atlus can make it work. The twist is that the red headed woman in the concept art is that Otaku.
Son Of Sparda
Member
Not a Kingdom Hears fan.
What I meant was that it's hard to make a good game while the goal is obviously to milk the existing cast of earlier titles.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
Great OP, thanks for putting together such a good summary.
I for one am very excited about the fantasy direction they're taking. I really don't think there are many recent fantasy JRPGs, and even less that are pure fantasy (ignoring things like isekai or technological elements). The fact that Re:Fantasy is going all in on fantasy seems fresh to me.
That said, I really hope they do some kind of new turn-based battle system. Less targeting weaknesses and more using your skills appropriately. So within the Atlus catalogue, I'm hoping for closer to Etrian Odyssey than SMT.
My biggest concern is actually for the localization. I certainly don't want another P5 situation where we in the West wait months for a wonky translation. As I see it, both Atlus JP and Atlus USA have room for improvement here
I for one am very excited about the fantasy direction they're taking. I really don't think there are many recent fantasy JRPGs, and even less that are pure fantasy (ignoring things like isekai or technological elements). The fact that Re:Fantasy is going all in on fantasy seems fresh to me.
That said, I really hope they do some kind of new turn-based battle system. Less targeting weaknesses and more using your skills appropriately. So within the Atlus catalogue, I'm hoping for closer to Etrian Odyssey than SMT.
My biggest concern is actually for the localization. I certainly don't want another P5 situation where we in the West wait months for a wonky translation. As I see it, both Atlus JP and Atlus USA have room for improvement here
I am not confident they'll be able to subvert the genre's expectations as much as they want to. Medieval settings are overabundant in all kinds of media and it's hard to think of something that hasn't been done before. At this point, it has been deconstructed and reconstructed to death. Besides, I don't expect them to make the kinds of design decisions it'd take to make a truly "counter culture" fantasy RPG.
What I do expect it to be is a very high quality product all around and I'm pretty excited about the project. I like medieval settings myself so I really have no issue in playing even a somewhat generic variation of it. I don't expect it to be quite as good as Persona or the best Megaten games, but hopefully it'll still be up there in the higher echellion of Atlus titles.
What I do expect it to be is a very high quality product all around and I'm pretty excited about the project. I like medieval settings myself so I really have no issue in playing even a somewhat generic variation of it. I don't expect it to be quite as good as Persona or the best Megaten games, but hopefully it'll still be up there in the higher echellion of Atlus titles.
Also, hopefully they take a look at ASOIAF too instead of just Lord of the Rings.
I really don't think the Persona spinoffs are representative of the full potential of their "B" team, and even if it were, well, Persona Q is one of the best Persona branded games mechanically speaking, and part of P Studio worked on that (collaborating with the EO team, of course).
Sure they're untested in some aspects, but if it's story what really worries people then I dunno. I liked P5 but it's not some masterpiece writing wise, and has a lot of elements that are extremely tone deaf and embarrassing to see play out, so if anything this could be an opportunity for Persona to get /better/. I'm not saying it'll be easy for them but who knows, maybe they're more capable than the main team if given the chance.
Sure they're untested in some aspects, but if it's story what really worries people then I dunno. I liked P5 but it's not some masterpiece writing wise, and has a lot of elements that are extremely tone deaf and embarrassing to see play out, so if anything this could be an opportunity for Persona to get /better/. I'm not saying it'll be easy for them but who knows, maybe they're more capable than the main team if given the chance.
Instead we got a rpg...with AI party members.. :/Oh and remember that once upon a time, they tried making Persona 3 an action RPG with AI party members..
Jawmuncher
Member
Something that isn't like persona at all
Mediking
Member
Uhhhhh.... lol. Always gonna be similarities. Wont be a carbon copy but Atlus a distinct way with their high class style of making games.
Honestly, more mature dialogue and writing. Persona 5's themes suffer a lot from writing that's way too on the nose, imo. I'd rather they either not take themselves as seriously or do a better job of delivering the serious themes they want to convey - personally I would prefer the latter.
By "mature" I don't mean "darker", btw. P5 is plenty dark. It's just fairly juvenile in its conveyance of that tone imo.
By "mature" I don't mean "darker", btw. P5 is plenty dark. It's just fairly juvenile in its conveyance of that tone imo.
eyeball_kid
Member
And I liked it. Felt like I was just one member of a group. If you paid attention in P3, the AI of each party member even corresponded to their personalities. But the AI in P5 can't handle all the strategic options and is pretty much unusable for anything but simple fights. So Atlus would have to do a ton of work on their AI to make it even passable for use in a ARPG.
But here's hoping it stays turn-based.
They did a much better writing (and localization) job with Catherine. So I know they have it in them. I think part of it is just the difference between writing for adults and emotionally inexperienced, over-earnest, naive teenagers.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
I'm pretty sure Hashino's whole point is that most fantasy settings nowadays try so hard to be "counter culture" that they all end up looking the same. Therefore, doing a fantasy setting with NO subversion is one way to stand out. And I think he has a point. Japan loves their "counter culture" fantasy (it's an otaku in a fantasy land!), but as a consequence not many stories play it straight.
Yeah, and Lord of the Rings still holds up amazingly well. Great stories of camaraderie. Human weaknesses from Boromir and Frodo losing themselves to temptation instead of necessarily overcoming it. Obviously fantastic fantasy settings.
Persona is not "mature" unless you mean the ESRB rating. Persona is never meant to be mature. It's a RPG series about juveniles, for juveniles. The target audience is not adults, but school children who can best relate to the themes and characters in the games directly. They're not meant to be totally serious and complicated deconstructions of their own themes. They are for the most part WYSIWYG. There are interesting themes and lots of social commentary, but they're wrapped in narratives which are meant to be appealing and engaging for teenagers. Criticizing Persona for not being mature enough is like asking why Naruto doesn't target adults instead.
Sumio Mondo
Member
An all new tactical turn based battle system. Hashino was one of the geniuses that came up with Press Turn system for SMT3: Nocturne and adapted it for Persona series with variations on the system used since then so I hope they do something else fresh with this new IP. I certainly wouldn't mind a hybrid system of sorts if they wanted to do that, either.
Listening to Meguro's music for the project so far really reminds me of his work on SMT: Strange Journey, just great stuff all around. I know he will deliver, as will Soejima, who's really grown as an artist.
I just hope the scenario is up to snuff, they should concentrate really hard on it since if it's Medieval and missing certain story elements like S-Links/Confidants (although they may do some variation on that with "Bonds" system or whatever they decide to call it) then it needs to make for better writing in other areas so that it doesn't feel lacking. The base story needs to feel fresh in such a setting as do the characters.
And I kinda hope Hashino keeps his challenging gameplay intact, Nocturne was incredibly challenging, as was Digital Devil Saga and Catherine so I hope he and his team hones in more into that rather than the P4 ease factor.
Other than that, I have full faith in this team, Hashino hasn't set a foot wrong yet for me, neither has Meguro as composer or Soejima as artist, so best of luck to them and I look forward to seeing it in a couple of years.
Listening to Meguro's music for the project so far really reminds me of his work on SMT: Strange Journey, just great stuff all around. I know he will deliver, as will Soejima, who's really grown as an artist.
I just hope the scenario is up to snuff, they should concentrate really hard on it since if it's Medieval and missing certain story elements like S-Links/Confidants (although they may do some variation on that with "Bonds" system or whatever they decide to call it) then it needs to make for better writing in other areas so that it doesn't feel lacking. The base story needs to feel fresh in such a setting as do the characters.
And I kinda hope Hashino keeps his challenging gameplay intact, Nocturne was incredibly challenging, as was Digital Devil Saga and Catherine so I hope he and his team hones in more into that rather than the P4 ease factor.
Other than that, I have full faith in this team, Hashino hasn't set a foot wrong yet for me, neither has Meguro as composer or Soejima as artist, so best of luck to them and I look forward to seeing it in a couple of years.
At least if we're going by Japanese fan polls, the P5 audience is actually 20+, and by a pretty large margin. Even the 30-39 demo polled higher than actual teens.
P3 and P4 are probably more targeted at actual teens in comparison, but I think P5 reflects a 20+ target demographic very well - relative to P3 and P4, the subject matter is much more adult, there's lots of talk about sexual assault and drugs and prostitution and politics, there are adult romance options, characters in the localization actually say "fuck" now and then, etc.
like.a.ser
Member
Kind of worried about some of the responses in this thread where people are essentially asking for more Persona. I like Persona, but in a new IP, I hope for something COMPLETELY different.
Personally, I'm comforted by the idea of a high fantasy setting. It's something that's becoming increasingly rare in games, with most games opting instead to throw technology or sci-fi elements into the mix.
Personally, I'm comforted by the idea of a high fantasy setting. It's something that's becoming increasingly rare in games, with most games opting instead to throw technology or sci-fi elements into the mix.
Do you really think for a game which has sold over 500k in Japan, a poll on Dengeki Playstation is representative of anything? Would it be surprising that the readership of Dengeki Playstation, especially those who would bother to submit stuff to a poll, is skewed towards older audiences? We're not even talking about the most popular gaming magazine in Japan here, we're talking about a platform brand exclusive bi-weekly magazine.
Is there any other, better data out there about this? I don't exactly find it hard to believe - tons of media in Japan about teenagers is actually aimed at an older audience, and I've already stated several reasons I think the content of P5 reflects this as well.
I'm fairly sure I've read Hashino interviews where he discussed how the Persona audience is getting older as well - P3 and P4 were a decade ago now, after all.
MaximumSpider
Banned
Although I prefer the modern setting of the Persona games (and Catherine), this is my dream team when it comes to gaming so I expect great things out of them anyway. I can't get excited right now because I know it won't be out for a while now.
I think it depends on what people mean by mature. Personally I enjoy when Persona focuses on themes teenagers can resonate with, same with silly concepts like "let's use our super hero powers to teach those shitty adults what's good!".
What I mean with wanting them to be more mature is basically respecting women and LGBT+ people instead of using them as objects and comic relief, that's pretty much it. The rest is perfectly fine as is, whether they choose to go with a dark or upbeat tone, I don't care.
Maybe I'm misremembering but didn't someone from Atlus say the target audience for Persona was 16-21 year olds?
As far as maturity goes, a story can be told maturely whilst not being a mature story. P5 has an awful habit of treating the player like an idiot, and it has some serious gaps in logic when it comes to motivation and consequence. The exact same story could be told better, and I think doing so would make it more 'mature'.
As far as maturity goes, a story can be told maturely whilst not being a mature story. P5 has an awful habit of treating the player like an idiot, and it has some serious gaps in logic when it comes to motivation and consequence. The exact same story could be told better, and I think doing so would make it more 'mature'.
That's not really a fair comparison. The Osaka team was and is being supervised by Nomura and a large chunk of the writing staff is the same. The Persona B team no longer has Hashino (arguably the main creative and according to the artbooks the one who is actually willing to do something more bold with his games) and lost its entire lead writing staff to Re Fantasy.
I mean, as far as maturity of content goes, do you really feel that media in Japan about teenagers is aimed at older audiences who desire more mature storytelling, or do they simply sell to older audiences who dig the same childish stuff teenagers do, but have more spending power? Because I firmly believe it is the latter rather than the former.
As far as the Persona audience "growing up" goes, sure, but Persona 5 sold so much more than P3 and P4 that it seems it hardly matters. The audience has expanded significantly, so it's not like they put all their effort into just appealing to the same base that aged up.
I see Catherine as a title from the same creators actually targeting adults specifically, with little consideration for making things particularly interesting for younger audiences. On the other hand, Persona panders about as much as you can expect for something that wants to hit all the check boxes on popular topics, designs, memes, and trends when it comes to teens and young adults.
Mediking
Member
Kamoshida, who?
Putting a gun to my head to activate a power, who?
Those aren't mature?
I understand what you're saying... I think.
Putting a gun to your head to summon your Persona is edgy, but not mature.
Green Mamba
Member
P3 delves into some mature themes but its overall visual design including its Persona summoning method is over the top and incredibly goofy.
Mediking
Member
Shadow the Hedgehog is edgy.
Riku from Kingdom Hearts is edgy.
Putting a gun to my head as symbolism that I'm killing myself for power is not edgy, in my opinion.
Son Of Sparda
Member
The popular theory is that the fool arcana from the logo will most likely be the main character right?
BRSxIgnition
Member
With all due respect, it may have basis in the game's themes, but it's still damn edgy.
This is what Hashino wrote about tarot when P5 came out (translated by the wonderful nenilein):
The implication here is that his next game is about The Moon (#18), which is all about being trapped in illusions.
Mediking
Member
Putting a gun to my head and pulling the trigger is edgy and not mature?
But Vincent's situation of being torn between a
demonic succubus
Dont get me wrong. I love Catherine.
You're comparing apples and oranges. You're comparing a visual metaphor with a character's relationship to two women.
Mediking
Member
But Vincent's situation is the entire situation of Catherine. Besides some side stories... its all about that love triangle.
And the visual metaphor of a gun to my head is vital just like how ripping off a mask is important in P5.
This is one bizarre argument.
Evokers as a means to summon personas is just a couple steps above giving Shadow guns and motorcycles to appeal to teens, as far as maturity goes.
Don't get me wrong, I dig evokers, I see them as endearingly edgy and they fit the game. But mature?... No lol. Elements in media that aren't meant for younger audiences =/= Mature content.
Evokers as a means to summon personas is just a couple steps above giving Shadow guns and motorcycles to appeal to teens, as far as maturity goes.
Don't get me wrong, I dig evokers, I see them as endearingly edgy and they fit the game. But mature?... No lol. Elements in media that aren't meant for younger audiences =/= Mature content.
Doing a fantasy setting with no subversions is something Dragon Quest already does quite well in the JRPG realm so I'm not sure if that's really a great way to stand out, but we'll see.
Mediking
Member
Yeah that legendary scene of Yukari sweating about putting a gun to her head is edgy and not mature at all.
Come on, man. Lol work with me.
....
Maybe deep down... I just don't like the somewhat negative connotation that the word "edgy" has.
More focus on Social Links/Community/Cooperation/Confidants that actually impact the story and the story impacting the SLinks.
For example Links should have benefits like in P5 but if you break a Link that benefit is disabled, your team mates should comment and react naturally, and breaking a large ammount should affect the ending in some way.
Open World similar to Dragon Quest XI.
Turned Based like Dragon Quest XI.
For example Links should have benefits like in P5 but if you break a Link that benefit is disabled, your team mates should comment and react naturally, and breaking a large ammount should affect the ending in some way.
Open World similar to Dragon Quest XI.
Turned Based like Dragon Quest XI.
Cannon_Fodder
Member
I see your point, but that's just one series. The fact that its something as big as Dragon Quest almost makes it its own category.
Between contemporary anime, manga, and games I feel like there are a lot more "subversive" or genre-blend ones. Stuff like Etrian Odyssey, Re:Zero, SAO, Grimgar, and others that escape me right now.
So what part of mitsuru's personality is trying to seduce everything?
Son Of Sparda
Member
That was an interesting read. Hopefully whatever he tries to accomplish with that theme will actually become more apparent this time.
eyeball_kid
Member
Mitsuru wanted to tell everyone what to do, including the shadows. Junpei would often go for the big brash attacks, Ken would do lots of things that showed his inexperience in battle, Yukari's self-centeredness showed in that she would often choose to heal herself rather than her teammates, Akihiko usually made smart tactical decisions, and Koromaru was constantly showing himself to be man's best friend by always saving your ass with a clutch death spell.
I thought P5 was quite clear about its message.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
This is the right take on this. These dead eyed straight shooters never miss, no matter the target.
I can see that being the case. Escapism, being "trapped in illusions" and a fantasy medieval setting mix together really well thematically. I remember I read somewhere he wanted to explore the reasons why people seek fantasy settings in the first place and I'm hoping that means he plans to explore the aforementioned aspects since it definitely ties in.
I know where you're coming from, but anime/light novel/jrpg subversions of medieval tropes is more often than not very basic "this game is medieval... but with a sci-fi/steampunk/mecha twist!" or "this is
I don't really have an issue if they play the setting itself straight anyway, but I definitely want them to do something different with the narrative and themes, even if it's still inside the confines of the "a hero's journey" template.
eyeball_kid
Member
See also: Deep Down, which if I remember was to have some futuristic people exploring ancient memories of a fantasy world.
I'm hoping for a unique take on the fantasy setting. I'm not a huge fan of fantasy in general which is why the destroyed or stylish cities of SMT always resonated with me more than any of the numerous games set in fantasy worlds did.
I saw a Hashino quote where he said he was reading Lord of the Rings in preparation to get started on this and that....isn't exactly inspiring much confidence in me. The LotR take on fantasy is not anything I feel like I want or need more of. Hopefully Hashino feels the same way but who knows!
I saw a Hashino quote where he said he was reading Lord of the Rings in preparation to get started on this and that....isn't exactly inspiring much confidence in me. The LotR take on fantasy is not anything I feel like I want or need more of. Hopefully Hashino feels the same way but who knows!