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Front Mission Evolved: How it became the game you probably don't want

kevm3

Member
Jun 12, 2004
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1,595
Square has been awful this generation... Can't believe these are the guys that at one time made Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 6, Final Fantasy Tactics among other great games.
 

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
Feb 14, 2009
56,116
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800
major_killjoy said:
What about Brave Fencer Musashi . . . oh.
What about Parasite Ev--oh... :(

(Though, I did like 2)
 

NovemberMike

Member
Jun 2, 2007
1,528
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K.Jack said:
Am I a nerd, if I point out that this FME looks more 'mech' than 'mecha'
Er, mech and mecha are the same thing. In Japan it refers to any mechanical vehicles (tanks, walking tanks, the weird scorpion in FF7) and in the west it refers to walking tanks.
 

avatar299

Banned
Jun 9, 2007
8,927
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kevm3 said:
Square has been awful this generation... Can't believe these are the guys that at one time made Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy 6, Final Fantasy Tactics among other great games.
Yeah lets ignore all the great games they have relesed over the past few years because they made a FM spin-off.
 

Hypereides

Member
Jan 19, 2009
7,693
347
1,005
Denmark
Back when Sakaguchi left Square, I never believed they would be on their way to destroy everything they've established. Wada is the depiction of the japanese kotick.

Fuck, I miss Square's passionate years. Fucking horseshit Wada.
 

LiveFromKyoto

Member
Jul 19, 2006
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Host Samurai said:
Japanese publishers are so out of touch with what fans want sometimes.
I think this shows they're exactly in touch with what people want, and it's not SRPGs. Why should they care about Front Mission's microscopic fanbase?
 

chespace

It's not actually trolling if you don't admit it
Jun 8, 2004
8,580
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Seattle
A bunch of assholes in this thread.

Game was fun last E3. Looking forward to it this E3.

Last thing I want is another FM SRPG that "pays homage" to its roots on the Super Famicom.
 

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
Mar 10, 2007
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Davidion said:
A TREMENDOUS one.





...not that I disagree or anything. :lol
Someone had to take one for the team. :lol

I'm really looking forward to playing this. Hopefully S-E continues their trend of using Steam as the PC distro platform. Steamworks would be nice as well.
 
Sep 20, 2005
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I'm not going to write the game off. It could be fun. But Sqaure should make another SRPG Front Mission and step it up to next gen standards.
 

Alex Connolly

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May 12, 2008
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chespace said:
A bunch of assholes in this thread.

Game was fun last E3. Looking forward to it this E3.

Last thing I want is another FM SRPG that "pays homage" to its roots on the Super Famicom.
Amen. I think this is a great way to get the lumbering series back onto the menu, and as they've said, the possibility of another TBS game is not off the cards. I'm certainly looking forward to it.

Lost Planet 2 certainly has its fair share of terrific mechs, and it's rapidly becoming my go-to multiplayer simply due to this fact. I hope FME can achieve the same level of heft, weight and firepower. Even if it sidesteps the older Armored Cores and goes for a more deliberately paced Mech Assaults, I am there.
 
D

Deleted member 13876

Unconfirmed Member
Would anyone else like an iPhone version of a Front Mission? I'd certainly dig it.
 

Rahxephon91

Banned
Mar 23, 2006
12,623
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Chicago IL.
major_killjoy said:
The only way SE can redeem themselves is if they rebooted this bad girl. But, they'd probably f' it up by making it a FPS. *worse-case-yet-plausible-scenario*
I guess Square is reademing themselves then?

And people act like Square never made a action FM game before.
 

Xater

Member
Jul 28, 2007
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Nils said:
Would anyone else like an iPhone version of a Front Mission? I'd certainly dig it.
I would be down for that, but they would probably just port the FM1 and that cell phone FM.
 
D

Deleted member 13876

Unconfirmed Member
Xater said:
I would be down for that, but they would probably just port the FM1 and that cell phone FM.
That's what I fear yeah, even though FM3 should be fully doable if they put their backs behind it.
 

mujun

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Dec 5, 2008
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Osaka
Shinjitsu said:
How so? The game looked like something I'd like to try at least. I don't really get all the bitching here.

Yes it's not a SRPG, but can you blame them? The sales in the states for Front Mission games have been shit. At least they are trying something with the franchise instead of letting it rot.

I hope they do go back to a SRPG at some point (front mission 3 was one of my favorite PSX titles)
Graphics look bad. Level design looks like a PS1 game and the action didn't look fun.

I absolutely love(d) the AC series and mech games in general but this seems like it's been outdone by PS2 era AC games even though it isn't out yet.
 

B.K.

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Jun 8, 2004
25,497
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Xater said:
I would be down for that, but they would probably just port the FM1 and that cell phone FM.
There's always Front Mission 2089. It was on cellphones in Japan. They could port the cell or DS version to the iPhone.
 

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
Jul 26, 2004
28,052
6
0
Long Island, NY
I'm just worried, that when this bombs (and it will, if not even the core FM fanbase is interested), that S-E won't ever bring any more SRPG FMs to America.

Really sick of Japanese developers outsourcing their properties to 3rd rate western devs too, like someone said above...
 

Desi

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May 15, 2007
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mujun said:
I absolutely love(d) the AC series and mech games in general but this seems like it's been outdone by PS2 era AC games even though it isn't out yet.
but the PS2 AC games are still the best.
And people act like Square never made a action FM game before.
2089 and didn't they also make a game similar to this one around the time Dirge of Cerberus was onine?
 

mjemirzian

Banned
Jul 9, 2009
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www.tbstactics.com
djtiesto said:
I'm just worried, that when this bombs (and it will, if not even the core FM fanbase is interested), that S-E won't ever bring any more SRPG FMs to America.

Really sick of Japanese developers outsourcing their properties to 3rd rate western devs too, like someone said above...
I don't see this as a problem. Anyone serious about SRPGs has been importing and learning Japanese for years now (you don't need to be able to read plot/character dialogue to get down some basic stuff that's repeated in a lot of RPGs), or playing PC wargames with strategic complexity that makes most console SRPGs look like tic tac toe.
 

Nairume

Banned
Jan 19, 2010
7,347
0
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Screw the haters. The last time Square outsourced an action-based Front Mission, it was pure unadulterated awesome. Even if it's not likely for that lightning to strike in the same place, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and at least wait until the final game comes out.

LiveFromKyoto said:
I think this shows they're exactly in touch with what people want, and it's not SRPGs. Why should they care about Front Mission's microscopic fanbase?
I've been noticing more and more that we "hardcore gaming nerds" still have ourselves convinced that WE are THE gaming demographic. Not only is that not the case now, but it has never been the case.

Let Square have their spin-off folks. It might actually *gasp* be good.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Jun 28, 2009
44,620
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Xater said:
There were a couple. You have to be mre specific.
No come on, I'm not talking about anything first party, it was japanese and exremely unique, pretty much limitless customization...

Damn, I hate this feeling :lol I should go post in that one thread
 

Tylahedras

Banned
Jul 6, 2008
3,267
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Looks fine to me, maybe if there were a glut of good mech action games around I'd be more old school upset but I hate AC so I'm happy to see someone else give it a go.
 
Apr 27, 2009
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Why didn't they just slap some normal maps, updated particle effects and full voice work to the previous engine and call it a day?

That said, I reserve judgement until I see more. Fingers crossed for an awesome title.
 

K.Jack

Knowledge is power, guard it well
Mar 10, 2007
24,188
0
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Desi said:
but the PS2 AC games are still the best.
Nah, the PS1 ACs felt better to me. I can't explain it, really, but i felt the PS2 games sucked.
 

Xater

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Jul 28, 2007
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Hawkian said:
No come on, I'm not talking about anything first party, it was japanese and exremely unique, pretty much limitless customization...

Damn, I hate this feeling :lol I should go post in that one thread
If I don't count Mech Assault I still know 3 mech games that were released. Steel Batallion, Metal Wolf Chaos and Phantom Crash.
 

Zenith

Banned
Feb 17, 2006
12,579
1
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djtiesto said:
I'm just worried, that when this bombs (and it will, if not even the core FM fanbase is interested), that S-E won't ever bring any more SRPG FMs to America.
it's not targeted at the "core FM fanbase" though..... any game that is would bomb.
 

Nairume

Banned
Jan 19, 2010
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0
djtiesto said:
I'm just worried, that when this bombs (and it will, if not even the core FM fanbase is interested), that S-E won't ever bring any more SRPG FMs to America.
They've tried three times already to get a sizable audience for SRPG FMs in America. I doubt this game flopping will really do much to change their minds on the subject.
 

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
Oct 9, 2007
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LiveFromKyoto said:
I think this shows they're exactly in touch with what people want, and it's not SRPGs. Why should they care about Front Mission's microscopic fanbase?
But dying franchises are awesome! How dare they try to ruin it.
 

FateBreaker

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Mar 12, 2005
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djtiesto said:
I'm just worried, that when this bombs (and it will, if not even the core FM fanbase is interested), that S-E won't ever bring any more SRPG FMs to America.

Really sick of Japanese developers outsourcing their properties to 3rd rate western devs too, like someone said above...
Sorry to choose your post, since I know a lot of people say this, but that's absolute bullshit. Western developers are just as capable as many Japanese developers. I think that the real problem is that they want new directions. I think it's really more of S-E's fault than it is Double Helix's. I mean, Silent Hill was just fine for one of their first games...better than The Room.
 

Hawkian

The Cryptarch's Bane
Jun 28, 2009
44,620
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820
Xater said:
If I don't count Mech Assault I still know 3 mech games that were released. Steel Batallion, Metal Wolf Chaos and Phantom Crash.
Yes! Phantom Crash! Thanks. :D
 

sixteen-bit

Member
Aug 16, 2006
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Hawkian said:
Yes! Phantom Crash! Thanks. :D
Speaking of Phantom Crash, did they ever fix the visual glitches when running it in BC on a 360?
I know BC hasn't been updated in forever, but I last tried PC on 360 so long ago.
 

Nairume

Banned
Jan 19, 2010
7,347
0
0
major_killjoy said:
The only way SE can redeem themselves is if they rebooted this bad girl. But, they'd probably f' it up by making it a FPS. *worse-case-yet-plausible-scenario*
Really wouldn't be any different than the last PE being an RE clone.

Actually, a FPS/TPS PE that retained the RPG elements would probably be an improvement over both PE1 and 2.
 

Ravidrath

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Jun 8, 2005
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I have the say, the game looks a lot better than I expected.

I certainly would not have picked Double Helix to make this, but it doesn't look incompetent by any means. It probably has a pretty large budget compared to what Double Helix usually gets for its games, too?

The real reason this game got made at all, though, is because Hashimoto was producer on the original games, and he's now in the company's upper echelons. I think it's more of a vanity project than anything.

The reason why Double Helix got this is really due to the fact that Japanese publishers clearly aren't ready to pay for what they want out of a game. They want to compete in the Western markets without paying what Western development costs. This is the same thing that sunk Capcom's western-developed games and will likely sink this one, too. Japanese development, for a variety of reasons, is much cheaper at the moment, even though it's not yielding the returns of AAA western development yet.
 
Aug 30, 2009
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I wish it was a SRPG. But I understand why they would change it because it's so niche.

This could either be good or a disaster.

I know one thing for sure though. If it was a SRPG, it'd be 30-40 hours long. Since it's a action game, I expect a 6 hour long game, LOL!

They could make up for this IF they release Front Mission 3 on PSN! Than all will be forgiven!
 

djtiesto

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Jul 26, 2004
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mjemirzian said:
I don't see this as a problem. Anyone serious about SRPGs has been importing and learning Japanese for years now (you don't need to be able to read plot/character dialogue to get down some basic stuff that's repeated in a lot of RPGs), or playing PC wargames with strategic complexity that makes most console SRPGs look like tic tac toe.
You don't see how learning an extremely complicated and challenging language to play certain games would be a problem? And yes I have taken a few Japanese courses in college... mostly to meet the language requirement.

Also about those PC wargames - I myself aren't into them because not only do they lack a lot of the charm/presentation/music/art/etc stuff I like about SRPGs and other RPGs... but because I program and design military simulations for a living - playing these games would remind me too much of work :p

If Japanese companies are interested so badly in penetrating the western market, wouldn't it be better for them to hire a few contract people who are more well-versed in the market (sort of like Team Kojima did with Ryan Payton), and still develop in Japan, instead of going all the way and hiring a whole western team?
 

mjemirzian

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Jul 9, 2009
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djtiesto said:
You don't see how learning an extremely complicated and challenging language to play certain games would be a problem? And yes I have taken a few Japanese courses in college... mostly to meet the language requirement.

Also about those PC wargames - I myself aren't into them because not only do they lack a lot of the charm/presentation/music/art/etc stuff I like about SRPGs and other RPGs... but because I program and design military simulations for a living - playing these games would remind me too much of work :p
You don't need to learn a lot of Japanese to be able to to read menus, status screens, and descriptions, which is enough to play a game. Most of the time those are in katakana so they require minimal translation. Most Japanese instruction manuals have hiragana above the kanji which makes them easier to decipher as well.

If all you want out of games is the JRPG/anime style and presentation then you don't even need to play SRPGs. If you're not playing for the strategic difficulty/challenge just play an RPG instead.
 

Xater

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Jul 28, 2007
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Ravidrath said:
The reason why Double Helix got this is really due to the fact that Japanese publishers clearly aren't ready to pay for what they want out of a game. They want to compete in the Western markets without paying what Western development costs. This is the same thing that sunk Capcom's western-developed games and will likely sink this one, too. Japanese development, for a variety of reasons, is much cheaper at the moment, even though it's not yielding the returns of AAA western development yet.
well Japan will have to learn the hard way as it seems.
 

Quixzlizx

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Jul 6, 2006
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mjemirzian said:
You don't need to learn a lot of Japanese to be able to to read menus, status screens, and descriptions, which is enough to play a game. Most of the time those are in katakana so they require minimal translation. Most Japanese instruction manuals have hiragana above the kanji which makes them easier to decipher as well.

If all you want out of games is the JRPG/anime style and presentation then you don't even need to play SRPGs. If you're not playing for the strategic difficulty/challenge just play an RPG instead.
Not every SRPG player is borderline-autistic about playing/cataloging/ranking every SRPG in existence according to gameplay systems/balance/difficulty, and they may actually want to experience complete games, including the stories.
 

mjemirzian

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Quixzlizx said:
Not every SRPG player is borderline-autistic about playing/cataloging/ranking every SRPG in existence according to gameplay systems/balance/difficulty, and they may actually want to experience complete games, including the stories.
A game is a test of skill that is complete without the need for plot or characters. If Final Fantasy Tactics or Disgaea were traditional JRPGs and combat didn't take place on a grid, most players would probably be just as entertained by them, and there wouldn't be much strategy lost in the process.

Autistic insults are so classy. But you forgot to add tactical level TBS games in there as well.
 

Quixzlizx

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mjemirzian said:
A game is a test of skill that is complete without the need for plot or characters. If Final Fantasy Tactics or Disgaea were traditional JRPGs and combat didn't take place on a grid, most players would probably be just as entertained by them, and there wouldn't be much strategy lost in the process.

Autistic insults are so classy. But you forgot to add tactical level TBS games in there as well.
So your point is people can't enjoy a role playing game and a grid-based battle system in the same game? If you only want one or the other, you can always stick to chess.
 

mjemirzian

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Quixzlizx said:
So your point is people can't enjoy a role playing game and a grid-based battle system in the same game? If you only want one or the other, you can always stick to chess.
Chess is a wonderful game, thanks for mentioning it.

I'm just trying to put the melodrama about the SRPG genre increasingly becoming Japan-exclusive or extinct into perspective (see Front Mission). For the majority of players, they aren't interested much in the 'strategy' portion of SRPG anyway, so they'll still have boatloads of traditional RPGs to choose from to get their interactive anime plot/character fix.

People certainly can enjoy an RPG and grid combat at the same time. The level of strategy that most people enjoy can easily be found in a traditional RPG anyway (at least going by how popular the easy SRPGs are compared to the more complex and difficult ones), so it won't be much of a difference for them either way.
 

Urban Scholar

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Fully customizable wanzers: weapons, paints, etc. Series tired and true arena feature (I think? I hope it makes an appearance) . A story that's going to fit within the Front Mission (I'm a fan of socio-political fuled games, more relateable) lore and some seemingly ok online. I weight this in my mind and it all sounds like a mech action I'd want to play. Honestly how many do we even see in the West? My only concern with this game is the on-foot sections, everything else can stay the course.
 

Sacha

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Jan 22, 2010
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Urban Scholar said:
Fully customizable wanzers: weapons, paints, etc. Series tired and true arena feature (I think? I hope it makes an appearance) . A story that's going to fit within the Front Mission (I'm a fan of socio-political fuled games, more relateable) lore and some seemingly ok online. I weight this in my mind and it all sounds like a mech action I'd want to play. Honestly how many do we even see in the West? My only concern with this game is the on-foot sections, everything else can stay the course.
My concern with the story is the fact that it's written by Motomu Toriyama. I don't know what to think of it.