FUll Redacted Mueller Report RELEASED!!! Neogaf first exclusive! (PDF in thread )

Trey

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That we're using up news cycles bickering over this crap instead of criticizing Trump's veto of the bill that's against the Yemen war shows how damaging this whole debacle has been.
I made a thread about that a few days ago, well before the Mueller report dropped. Most people just don't care, "distraction" or not.
 

autoduelist

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I made a thread about that a few days ago, well before the Mueller report dropped. Most people just don't care, "distraction" or not.
I care, I'm very anti-war. I think it was a mistake, but I also think Trump's hand may have been forced by fragile alliances, both foreign and domestic. Ultimately I'd like to see decreased military conflict under Trump, which is where I think his heart is but his presidency so far has been um, restrained a bit by this whole collusion investigation. Everyone balked at Syria. While ultimately I'd love to see us out of all wars in the ME, I also don't think it can be done overnight [even as a back seat driver that wishes it could].
 

CatLady

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Strange how we haven't had any leaks, let alone anything comparable to Twitter jerking off about Mueller Mondays every week.

Almost like this is an actual, professional investigation versus the special counsel shitshow.
Well that and the fact that MSM wouldn't report on any leaks as they would most likely run counter to their preferred propaganda.
 
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The problem with this is that most of those 10 episodes of concern will involve intent. This is extremely difficult to prove one way or another. The Comey firing was well within his purview.

I've been reading this report and collusion is out, period. When trying to prove obstruction for an investigation that proved fruitless, its going to be even more difficult to prove intent to stop the investigation becuase he was doing it. Its become a point of interest to me, and I'm sure many other Americans that(I get it and others do as well)how can someone obstruct when no underlying crime was commited?

I'm not as confident as you are that anyone could get him for obstruction based on these mitigating circumstances.
According to James Comey, the DOJ prosecutes people for obstruction without an underlying crime often. I've also seen the Martha Stewart case cited on TV. A notable example where the government was successful on convicting her.

However, I don't think Mueller would win in court again for a couple reasons. The president of the US plays by a different set of rules under the law. Moreover, I think there are a lot of conservative judges out there who see things like Barr does.

With that said, Mueller had many of the best and brightest lawyers in the US digging into Pres. Trump and his associates. These aren't scrubs going on a fishing expedition. These are elites that are among the best of the best. So, I take Mueller at his word when he suggests he had substantial evidence on Trump for 6 episodes. And a future prosecutor could slam Pres. Trump once he leaves office.
 
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autoduelist

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According to James Comey, the DOJ prosecutes people for obstruction without an underlying crime often. I've also seen the Martha Stewart case cited on TV. A notable example where the government was successful on convicting her.

However, I don't think Mueller would win in court again for a couple reasons. The president of the US plays by a different set of rules under the law. Moreover, I think there are a lot of conservative judges out there who see things like Barr does.

With that said, Mueller had many of the best and brightest lawyers in the US digging into Pres. Trump and his associates. These aren't scrubs going on a fishing expedition. These are elites that are among the best of the best. So, I take Mueller at his word when he suggests he had substantial evidence on Trump for 6 episodes. And a future prosecutor could slam Pres. Trump once he leaves office.
Meh. The report states: "while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him".

If a pile of top notch hand picked investigators politically motivated to take Trump down can't do it with 2 years and 30 million dollars, and the report itself says it can't conclude wrongdoing, it's not going to court.

It's not like he's keeping info secret that will suddenly move the meter to him being able to conclude wrongdoing.

No matter how much some don't want it to be true, its time for this fever dream to end.
 

matt404au

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Speak for yourself!



You were the one strutting around like a peacock loudly proclaiming that "Mueller is coming" and will help with dealing the fatal blow to Trump's presidency. When others, such as myself, tried to warn you that this might not be the smoking gun you were hoping for and that it might seriously backfire on the Democrats, we were met yet again with your incredibly self-righteous condescending ridicule. Don't believe me? Check our post histories on Mueller!



Also, you quoting Stephen Fry is hilariously hypocritical. After all, he was the one defending Petersonagainst the ideological zealots such as yourself!



Yet, here we are yet again with you trying to retcon the past because you refuse to learn anything. You and me, are not sitting in the same boat.
Glad I’m not the only one who sees it this way. The both sides tactic is just another means of deflecting criticism and is ultimately a stubborn refusal to accept accountability for his own actions.

While I share @guggnichso ’s goals stated in this thread (https://www.neogaf.com/threads/conservative-pussies-have-been-owned-fuck-the-right-wing-establishment.1477495/), I think he’s going about it in the completely wrong way. The environment he is describing has to be built over time by positively reinforcing pro-social behaviours (promoting the truth, being able to admit fault, acknowledging one’s limits, anti-fragility, to name a few) and discouraging anti-social behaviours (outrage baiting, playing the victim, and any of the other numerous narcissistic tendencies that NI so frequently displays). You can’t just both sides your way there because all that does is incentivise the anti-social behaviours and breeds resentment that undermines social cohesion in the long run.

I’m not singling out @guggnichso here — @Yoshi is another who does this frequently, and while I think it’s done with good intentions, it’s a lazy, ineffective and counter-productive parenting method that is actually compounding the problems it claims to want to solve. It encourages spoiled children to avoid accountability because they know that the adults will swoop in to shield them and punish everyone equally whenever they overstep the social bounds. This breeds narcissism and produces adults who cannot function in the real world because they are completely dissociated from corrective social forces. If they can just take everyone down with them, why take the path of most resistance?

NI trying to both sides his way out of this by quoting Stephen Fry — someone he knows will resonate on an emotional level with many of us — and painting it as an “all of us” problem exemplifies this. The absolute worst thing we can do for the culture of the forum as a whole is give in and fail to hold him to account for his anti-social behaviours. This is not the behaviour of someone who has learned anything from Covington, Smollett, Russia, and so on:

I really feel like this is a childish take. Is it really so bad to confront family members with questionable political stances?
------------------------------------> The Point


*you*
I am used to your ignorant trolling, but even by your low standards this is a stupid argument.
You missed my entire point even after I spelled it out for you.
Good job. That takes great effort.
Read my other posts before mindlessly commenting please.

You keep going on about the redaction while ignoring the rest of what I am saying. The least you can do is pay attention to what I am saying rather than skimming through my post. I don't want people to break the law. I just want transparency to avoid months of pointless bullshit.
I gave you multiple chances to back up your claim and show you weren't full of shit. You chose to double and triple down while ignoring everything I have ever said instead. Nobody can say I didn't try.

I'm done here.
https://www.neogaf.com/threads/hatred-of-journalists-whipped-up-by-populist-and-authoritarian-leaders-has-degenerated-into-violence-across-the-world.1477219/page-2#post-254058163

This is just from the last few days.
 

Rentahamster

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I made a thread about that a few days ago, well before the Mueller report dropped. Most people just don't care, "distraction" or not.
Yeah I know, I posted in that thread. When I said we're using up news cycles, I meant the general we, as in all of us, particularly the media that control said news cycles.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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When even liberal comedians see through the bullshit.

Jimmy Dore lays out the birth of the Russian narrative in 3 minutes.
It's worth noting he recorded this a full month before the Mueller probe closed and AG Barr delivered his summary. It's also not the first (or second, or third) time Jimmy Dore called b.s. on Russiagate.

I disagree with some of his standpoints, but dang if he isn't entertaining to watch. :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 
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autoduelist

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We'll see how the media tries to disparage Larry Johnson, then.

It's not like they gave much weight to former CIA John Brennan's opinion, right? Riiiiiight?
Trump and various others have been doing the slow roll on this stuff since the first Barr report cleared Trump of collusion. Given all this stuff is completely in line with what we [as in, those paying attention to public information] already knew to be fact about the Steele dossier, FISA, etc I'm thinking we might be seeing pressure on some of those involved to start talking before Trump starts declassifying documents.

Since the general public is completely unaware of how unhinged and corrupt the entire investigation was, let alone the possibility of coup [and even the meaning of coup, if we are honest], I think Trump is doing a couple of jabs before he throws a haymaker... and the press is too deep in shared psychosis to be able to react.

Time will tell.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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On upcoming IG report.
Yeppp, this guy mentions an incoming blow that the Democrats are seemingly unaware of: the push for "obstruction" only matters if the investigation itself was lawful. What happens when it comes out that all of this was an illegal scheme?

I would've thought that Democrats would've immediately backed off and begun quietly planning their next moves when the Mueller report closed with no further inditements, but their double-downs in the weeks since then is going to make this a whole lot worse for the party.

Interesting times ahead. I expect some insane meltdowns this year over this issue.
 

Arkage

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We'll see how the media tries to disparage Larry Johnson, then.

It's not like they gave much weight to former CIA John Brennan's opinion, right? Riiiiiight?
Larry C. Johnson
is a former analyst at the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency. He currently is the co-owner and CEO of BERG Associates, LLC (Business Exposure Reduction Group). In 1993, Johnson left government work to join the private sector. In July 2001, two months before the September 11 attacks,[2] Johnson wrote a New York Times op-ed entitled, "The Declining Terrorist Threat," arguing that "terrorism is not the biggest security challenge confronting the United States, and it should not be portrayed that way." He is best known for spreading a hoax in 2008 that Republican operatives had a videotape of Michelle Obama complaining about "whitey" In 2013, Johnson falsely accused John Kerry of war crimes in Vietnam, alleging that Kerry had "raped some poor Vietnamese woman."

In March 2017, Andrew Napolitano spread the unfounded conspiracy theory that GCHQ, one of Britain's top intelligence agencies, had wiretapped Donald Trump during the 2016 presidential campaign on orders from President Obama.[1][22] Johnson was the source for Napolitano's claim.[1][23] The conspiracy theory was later asserted as fact by President Trump, with him citing Fox News and Napolitano.[1]GCHQ responded, stating that the claims were "nonsense, utterly ridiculous and should be ignored".[24] Fox News later disavowed the statement by Napolitano.[1]
John Owen Brennan
(born September 22, 1955)[1][2] is an American intelligence official who served as the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) from March 2013 to January 2017.
Keep embarrassing yourself.
 
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cryptoadam

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Yeppp, this guy mentions an incoming blow that the Democrats are seemingly unaware of: the push for "obstruction" only matters if the investigation itself was lawful. What happens when it comes out that all of this was an illegal scheme?

I would've thought that Democrats would've immediately backed off and begun quietly planning their next moves when the Mueller report closed with no further inditements, but their double-downs in the weeks since then is going to make this a whole lot worse for the party.

Interesting times ahead. I expect some insane meltdowns this year over this issue.
regardless of what the investigation finds, the whole thing was a sham and this is shown by how even with no collusion by Mueller the Dems like you said keep doubling down.

It was never about collusion, protecting democracy, or Russian interference. It was about 1 thing and 1 thing only, reversing the 2016 results and destroying Trump and anyone in his orbit.

Dems should be done with it after Mueller told them no collusion, but they know 2020 is lost so this is all they got left.
 
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