Support NeoGAF

[sflufan]

For the life of me, I cannot understand the double standard that some on this board apply to Valve and the Half-Life series and how they should be "forced" to make the game, even if they don't want to.

Some on here constantly lament how terrible it must be for the developers at Treyarch, Infinity Ward, Ubisoft Montreal, etc. to be forced to crank out annual releases of CoD and Assassin's Creed year after mind-numbing year as these series sink further into mediocrity.

And yet, here we have a company that allows its employees to express their creativity and interests and have the freedom to choose what project they wish to work on and yet these very same individuals who pity Treyarch and IW howl that Valve should make another Half-Life entry, even if it sucks. It's just illogical and borderline ridiculous.

 

[Nirolak]

He said "when we started" so like around 1996. Quake had just come out. Everquest wouldn't come out until 1999. I don't think it's incorrect to say it.

Well it depends what you count as multiplayer, no?

Arcades are what pop to mind.

 

[RooMHM]

I don't conform to the opinion that a game has to be ground-breaking or revolutionary to be an excellent experience. Why should making HL3 mean "using the same old tired tropes"? Is Valve as a studio incapable of crafting fresh, quality stories/campaigns now?

If I was sure that we re just waiting for new ideas concepts and technology I d be willing to wait a lot more. HL is the franchise that drives the FPS genre now Quake is dead so it would be a disaster if it wasn t innovative and ground breaking enough.

 

[Orayn]

Valves such a bizarre company. Surely people make atmospheric FPS games because those are the kinds of games they want to make? Why would they give a shit about what "the customers" want? Why would they stay on to make multiplayer only arena battle games?

Some people do like those games and want to make them, but that's not the prevailing interest at Valve right now, so it's not what they're working on.

 

[sn00zer]

Was never a huge fan of their multiplayer games...always felt like a snack or appetizer to their singleplayer games....Portal 2 coop being the exception

 

[szaromir]

Bioware is long gone, Bethesda is going down the lowest common denominator route.

Valve has always been about the lowest common denominator.

 

[TheContact]

HL3 could have a good multiplayer, make it like quake

Or online co-op up to 4 players or something

 

[Whompa]

Over 10 years ago sure, that's how they got them on it between counter strike and half life, but nowadays? Skyrim brought more to it then those two combined in the last 3 years.

Right but with Counter-Strike, Garry's Mod, and Left 4 Dead right behind it. Skyrim definitely boosted the userbase, but i'd argue that most people, especially the average age of a gamer, knows what Half-Life is. The new wave I'd totally agree, that they might not know. Maybe they're just trying to figure out how to get Half-Life more concurrent....Something you can go back to and yet still has a narrative.

I wouldn't even go that far back either. Episode 2 came out in 2007. It's still lingering.

 

[SteveWinwood]

Well it depends what you count as multiplayer, no?

Arcades are what pop to mind.

Yeah I suppose. I guess I had just assumed at home and online.

There are tons of 2600 games that would fit too.

 

[Takamura-San]

At this point .. release a half life book that ends the story. We know that the HL bible exist and most likely ends the story. hire or re purpose one of your writers to make it into a novel. We get it, your people don't want to make the game. I guess I made my peace, I still want to know what happens.

 

[Tagyhag]

Right but with Counter-Strike, Garry's Mod, and Left 4 Dead right behind it. Skyrim definitely boosted the userbase, but i'd argue that most people, especially the average age of a gamer, knows what Half-Life is. The new wave I'd totally agree, that they might not know. Maybe they're just trying to figure out how to get Half-Life more concurrent....Something you can go back to and yet still has a narrative.

I wouldn't even go that far back either. Episode 2 came out in 2007. It's still lingering.

Pls no.

Bloody screen! So real!

 

[SlowRevolution]

Valve ditching SP is a bummer. I don't even care what kind of game they make, doesn't matter to me if it's a new Half Life or an original IP. I just don't really give a shit about multiplayer or co-op Portal 3 (or whatever they do).

 

[Whompa]

Pls no.

Bloody screen! So real!

lol. Yeah I never suggested it was a good idea. I'm just curious if they want people to latch onto their single player games a little longer than playing it ONCE and then moving on.

 

[Marauder Shields]

As long as you keep that Dota train rolling, we're cool Gabe.

 

[Interfectum]

Sure, but if you were a hotshot singleplayer/campaign developer and wanted to go get a new job, how high up would Valve rank on your list?

That person would probably not rank high on Valve's list because they aren't interested in a single talent developer.

If they hire the right, multi talented people they are more than capable of creating an innovative single player game. As I said before, Portal 2 shows this. And if you look at the staff they currently employ (Clint Hocking, Erik Wolpaw, etc) they could easily make a Half Life 3 if they desired.

 

[Wereroku]

For the life of me, I cannot understand the double standard that some on this board apply to Valve and the Half-Life series and how they should be "forced" to make the game, even if they don't want to.

Some on here constantly lament how terrible it must be for the developers at Treyarch, Infinity Ward, Ubisoft Montreal, etc. to be forced to crank out annual releases of CoD and Assassin's Creed year after mind-numbing year as these series sink further into mediocrity.

And yet, here we have a company that allows its employees to express their creativity and interests and have the freedom to choose what project they wish to work on and yet these very same individuals who pity Treyarch and IW howl that Valve should make another Half-Life entry, even if it sucks. It's just illogical and borderline ridiculous.

I am not sure that it would be true to say that Valve gives there employees creative freedom though. Even here it is suggested that the current company initiative is on connected multiplayer experiences. I don't think a team at Valve could freely start a single player game without being told to add some multiplayer elements or scrap it entirely. I mean look at the stories about the arcast people they were free to work on their projects but they were basically shunned and then fired. Valve gives their employees the creative freedom to work within their initiatives but otherwise they are a lot like EA currently in their development focus.

That person would probably not rank high on Valve's list because they aren't interested in a single talent developer.

If they hire the right, multi talented people they are more than capable of creating an innovative single player game. As I said before, Portal 2 shows this. And if you look at the staff they currently employ (Clint Hocking, Erik Wolpaw, etc) they could easily make a Half Life 3 if they desired.

I disagree Portal 2 shows how Valve is not interested in Single player experiences anymore. All the continuing support for that game is focused on the coop. Portal 2 may be the last single player game from Valve for a while because it just does not make them money like their other games. Also as to your point I agree Valve are not going to hire someone interested in single player games and if they do I am guessing they will be encouraged to focus on other avenues.

 

[RooMHM]

At this point .. release a half life book that ends the story. We know that the HL bible exist and most likely ends the story. hire or re purpose one of your writers to make it into a novel. We get it, your people don't want to make the game. I guess I made my peace, I still want to know what happens.

HL is a game series. So no.

 

[EatChildren]

For the life of me, I cannot understand the double standard that some on this board apply to Valve and the Half-Life series and how they should be "forced" to make the game, even if they don't want to.

Some on here constantly lament how terrible it must be for the developers at Treyarch, Infinity Ward, Ubisoft Montreal, etc. to be forced to crank out annual releases of CoD and Assassin's Creed year after mind-numbing year as these series sink further into mediocrity.

And yet, here we have a company that allows its employees to express their creativity and interests and have the freedom to choose what project they wish to work on and yet these very same individuals who pity Treyarch and IW howl that Valve should make another Half-Life entry, even if it sucks. It's just illogical and borderline ridiculous.

Valve can do whatever they want, and more power to them for being able to. But that's not going to curb my personal disappointment when they even further distance themselves from producing already irregularly released single player first person shooters, a genre that despite saturation seems almost totally devoid of the creative flair and talent Valve brings to the table.

It's less about getting no Half-Life, and more about getting far fewer if any single player campaigns from a developer well established as really, really fucking good at making them.

 

[Yeef]

I'm still of the mind that Half-Life 3 will be their flagship title when they finally reveal Source 2.

 

[Basileus777]

At this point .. release a half life book that ends the story. We know that the HL bible exist and most likely ends the story. hire or re purpose one of your writers to make it into a novel. We get it, your people don't want to make the game. I guess I made my peace, I still want to know what happens.

A book about a video game with a silent protagonist? Sounds horrible.

 

[Grief.exe]

Just be patient guys, the last two leaks we have had showed that the HL3 teams have been growing in size.

A book about a video game with a silent protagonist? Sounds horrible.

................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

Fin

 

[DMczaf]

"you want them to recognize that being really good at Half-Life level design is not as nearly as valued as thinking of how to design social multi-player experiences."
"we collectively said let's try to make multi-player games even though there's never been a commercial successful multi-player game."

People would be all over this load of crap if it had been said by an EA executive.

THANK YOU BASED GABEN!! TEARS OF GABEN ROLL DOWN MY CHEEKS!!



fuck you gabe.

 

[Zoc]

Some people do like those games and want to make them, but that's not the prevailing interest at Valve right now, so it's not what they're working on.

I can see that, but I have no idea why that is the case.

 

[RoboPlato]

Valve can do whatever they want, and more power to them for being able to. But that's not going to curb my personal disappointment when they even further distance themselves from producing already irregularly released single player first person shooters, a genre that despite saturation seems almost totally devoid of the creative flair and talent Valve brings to the table.

It's less about getting no Half-Life, and more about getting far fewer if any single player campaigns from a developer well established as really, really fucking good at making them.

Amen. As much as I want HL3, I'm more saddened by the lack of SP games coming from them. If HL3 ever makes it out, I think it'll be the last single player game Valve ever makes.

 

[zhorkat]

Just be patient guys, the last two leaks we have had showed that the HL3 teams have been growing in size.

Takes a lot of people to figure out how to add hats, weapon skins, and crates to a Half-Life game.

 

[angular graphics]

At this point .. release a half life book that ends the story. We know that the HL bible exist and most likely ends the story. hire or re purpose one of your writers to make it into a novel. We get it, your people don't want to make the game. I guess I made my peace, I still want to know what happens.

That's not really the case.

 

[Nirolak]

That person would probably not rank high on Valve's list because they aren't interested in a single talent developer.

If they hire the right, multi talented people they are more than capable of creating an innovative single player game. As I said before, Portal 2 shows this. And if you look at the staff they currently employ (Clint Hocking, Erik Wolpaw, etc) they could easily make a Half Life 3 if they desired.

Right, but what I'm trying to get at here is that they're likely to attract people who want to go work on multiplayer games even if they can creating singleplayer ones.

For example, a quick look at Valve's JIRA tracker tells us that Doug Church and Clint Hocking are on Left 4 Dead 3: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=689145

I'm sure they could have had their choice of workplace (especially Clint Hocking), but they ended up at Valve and then chose to work on the multiplayer zombie shooter game as opposed to spearheading new frontiers on campaign titles.

I would propose that given Valve's output, this is the kind of interest they're likely to attract.

 

[SteveWinwood]

I'm still of the mind that Half-Life 3 will be their flagship title when they finally reveal Source 2.

I'm still banking on L4D3 being it. That'll be the playground for the refined HL3 on it.

 

[Nzyme32]

Would it really be so bad to have both? A full fledged Freeman experience and then a social multiplayer thing based around in the universe?

 

[Grief.exe]

I'm still banking on L4D3 being it. That'll be the playground for the refined HL3 on it.

I agree, L4D3 is probably farther along.

 

[Orayn]

I can see that, but I have no idea why that is the case.

I can. Valve works on whatever captures the imagination of a sufficient number of employees to set up a project dedicated to it. With the follow-ups to HL2, it was episodic gaming. When that went all pear-shaped from a schedule perspective, things turned more towards multiplayer games where they've been met with considerable success and critical acclaim. It's not surprising that they want to strike while the iron is hot and devote the most effort to what currently inspires them the most.

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

Really sad, they were one of my top devs during HL and HL2. They've pretty much slipped into irrelevancy to me with their new direction. I don't even want to think of other devs I love going this route (Bioware, Naughty Dog, Bethesda, etc). *shudder*

There is no other developer in the position that Valve is in. Besides I want Valve to do what is best for them, not force them to make another sequal. People need to realize that Valve might never make HL3 and deal with it. Steam is such a bigger deal anyways.

 

[Interfectum]

Valve can do whatever they want, and more power to them for being able to. But that's not going to curb my personal disappointment when they even further distance themselves from producing already irregularly released single player first person shooters, a genre that despite saturation seems almost totally devoid of the creative flair and talent Valve brings to the table.

It's less about getting no Half-Life, and more about getting far fewer if any single player campaigns from a developer well established as really, really fucking good at making them.

I dunno, I'd wait and see what they come out with next. Valve has been very MP focused these past couple years due to getting Dota 2 and CS:GO up and running. There are many, many big employees at Valve that have been silent for quite some time and we already have leaks that there is indeed an HL3 team working on something.

 

[shinobi602]

Valve can do whatever they want, and more power to them for being able to. But that's not going to curb my personal disappointment when they even further distance themselves from producing already irregularly released single player first person shooters, a genre that despite saturation seems almost totally devoid of the creative flair and talent Valve brings to the table.

It's less about getting no Half-Life, and more about getting far fewer if any single player campaigns from a developer well established as really, really fucking good at making them.

Pretty much.

There is no other developer in the position that Valve is in. Besides I want Valve to do what is best for them, not force them to make another sequal. People need to realize that Valve might never make HL3 and deal with it. Steam is such a bigger deal anyways.

Yup, and that's fine, I have dealt with it. They're irrelevant to me now.

 

[Nzyme32]

I'm still banking on L4D3 being it. That'll be the playground for the refined HL3 on it.

I'd second that based on the leaked dev group size. Wouldn't be surprised if they are demoing the new Steam Machines at CES with some sort of L4D3 tech demo to show off each ones capabilities or something

 

[-MB-]

I applaud Valve for making the stuf they WANT to make instead of pandering to fans demanding more of the same from them. If only more would follow their lead on this.

 

[alexandros]

Valve can do whatever they want, and more power to them for being able to. But that's not going to curb my personal disappointment when they even further distance themselves from producing already irregularly released single player first person shooters, a genre that despite saturation seems almost totally devoid of the creative flair and talent Valve brings to the table.

It's less about getting no Half-Life, and more about getting far fewer if any single player campaigns from a developer well established as really, really fucking good at making them.

You're talking as if Valve didn't relatively recently release a fantastic single player game (Portal 2). That creative flair and talent that you mentioned needs time to produce something unique.

 

[Htown]

I don't think you guys are reading that correctly.

 

[Grief.exe]

Valve can do whatever they want, and more power to them for being able to. But that's not going to curb my personal disappointment when they even further distance themselves from producing already irregularly released single player first person shooters, a genre that despite saturation seems almost totally devoid of the creative flair and talent Valve brings to the table.

It's less about getting no Half-Life, and more about getting far fewer if any single player campaigns from a developer well established as really, really fucking good at making them.

The genre is mostly saturated with garbage at this point, its strange that the best shooters released this year Call of Juarez, Shadow Warrior, Last Light, etc I rarely hear any talk about.

I guess people are fine with the status quo continuing to run the genre into the ground.

 

[Noble Neckbeard]

For the life of me, I cannot understand the double standard that some on this board apply to Valve and the Half-Life series and how they should be "forced" to make the game, even if they don't want to.

Some on here constantly lament how terrible it must be for the developers at Treyarch, Infinity Ward, Ubisoft Montreal, etc. to be forced to crank out annual releases of CoD and Assassin's Creed year after mind-numbing year as these series sink further into mediocrity.

And yet, here we have a company that allows its employees to express their creativity and interests and have the freedom to choose what project they wish to work on and yet these very same individuals who pity Treyarch and IW howl that Valve should make another Half-Life entry, even if it sucks. It's just illogical and borderline ridiculous.

I think there is a balance to be found. If no one tells me what to do at work, chances are I'm going to screw around on the Internet. After a while, if I'm not good at creating my own motivation (and let's face it, most people aren't) then I'll get anxious and bored, which will feed into my non-productiveness even more.

On the other hand, if I have a boss who is jumping down my throat every ten minutes and constantly ordering me around, I'll become resentful and bitter, feeling underappreciated for all the hard work I'm doing.

 

[DUFFMCWALIN]

Yup, and that's fine, I have dealt with it. They're irrelevant to me now.

How is the company that has revitalized and helped grow the PC community irrelevant to you now? Do you not use Steam? Do you not play the games that might not exist without Steam? This seems incredibly narrow sighted.

 

[Grief.exe]

How is the company that has revitalized and helped grow the PC community irrelevant to you now? Do you not use Steam? Do you not play the games that might not exist without Steam? This seems incredibly narrow sighted.

He's a console AAA gamer.

 

[Nirolak]

I don't think you guys are reading that correctly.

How did you read that statement?

 

[SmithnCo]

Half-Life 3 MOBA confirmed

 

[Felix Lighter]

I think there is a balance to be found. If no one tells me what to do at work, chances are I'm going to screw around on the Internet. After a while, if I'm not good at creating my own motivation (and let's face it, most people aren't) then I'll get anxious and bored, which will feed into my non-productiveness even more.

On the other hand, if I have a boss who is jumping down my throat every ten minutes and constantly ordering me around, I'll become resentful and bitter, feeling underappreciated for all the hard work I'm doing.

The people they are hiring are very self motivated. It's absolutely crucial that they are.

 

[shinobi602]

How is the company that has revitalized and helped grow the PC community irrelevant to you now? Do you not use Steam? Do you not play the games that might not exist without Steam? This seems incredibly narrow sighted.

I should have clarified, they're irrelevant to me as a studio that creates games. None of their recent output interests me at all.

But, I barely use Steam at all. I think I have 4 games on there. Not really a PC gamer.

He's a console AAA gamer.

No offense but I don't believe you're in a position to speak for me.

 

[Gestault]

So Valve is Anakin Skywalker, circa episode III. Got it. I can work with this.

 

[EatChildren]

You're talking as if Valve didn't relatively recently release a fantastic single player game (Portal 2). That creative flair and talent that you mentioned needs time to produce something unique.

Heh, I haven't given up on Valve, I just get a bit cranky whenever the topic of Half-Life and single player campaigns comes up. My immense enjoyment of Portal 2 without co-op is fuel on the fire.

 

[jelly]

I just want to see new Valve games and especially on a next gen engine. No bite sized level loading please. I hear streaming is a common thing these days.

 

[Jackben]

HL3 not confirmed.. ever.