• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

GAFs big house of Linux |OT| for gamers, ricers, newbs and greybeards - because it's free as in freedom!

ThatGamingDude

I am a virgin
Pentesting without authorization.... tsk tsk... very poor form!

Linux kernel group is already strained, they don't need to deal with maliciousness.
Well honestly it just goes to show some of the benefits of open source projects

Since it's a COMMUNITY project, with community beliefs, ethics, practices and standards there's already a large chorus ready to tell these people they're doing wrong, and can easily protect it
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Well honestly it just goes to show some of the benefits of open source projects

Since it's a COMMUNITY project, with community beliefs, ethics, practices and standards there's already a large chorus ready to tell these people they're doing wrong, and can easily protect it

That's certainly reassuring and it's good these things are looked at. Trust within the community is powerful.

Btw, seems we're gettomg close to Elementary os 6 beta these guys beat to the sound of their own drum and have had their share of controversies, but their distro certainly has a dedicated fanbase. They're even cultivating an ecosystem based around elementary HIG and Vala.
 

Dream-Knife

Member
Fortunately there’s options out there!

Speaking as someone who runs a gnome distro, there’s enough extensions to make it very usable, but I agree with you that default gnome is rather meh.
Oh yeah I know. KDE looks awesome and is what I would use if I had to use linux.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Oh yeah I know. KDE looks awesome and is what I would use if I had to use linux.

KDE is super customisable too. A lot of ricers run it because how moddable it use.

It's most well known trick is that it comes with a global menu bar ala macos as an option. Funnily enough, gnome mandates a top menu bar and yet they refuse to add this option - it boggles the mind! But again, that's gnome for ya :lollipop_flores:
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Looks nice. I might fuck around with this os on my wife's old pc. Does it play well with GPUs? Her processor is an old AMD, which, if memory serves, does not have onboard graphics.

Out of the box it should play well with AMD cards. For nvidia there’s ok performance open source drivers built in, you might wanna look into installing the nvidia proprietary ones for best performance.
 

-Minsc-

Member
Was initially planning to switch to Linux when the Win 8.1 support ended in 2023. Now I'm planning to buy an SSD for this over five year old machine and put Mint on it. I do have Mint on an old mid-2007 iMac. Works OK. Wonky booting up as I have to type in "exit" in this Grub or something screen to make it boot.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Was initially planning to switch to Linux when the Win 8.1 support ended in 2023. Now I'm planning to buy an SSD for this over five year old machine and put Mint on it. I do have Mint on an old mid-2007 iMac. Works OK. Wonky booting up as I have to type in "exit" in this Grub or something screen to make it boot.

Woot! Welcome!

Mint comes built in with a boot repair app, have you tried it? You need to boot from a mint live USB to use it, I think.

Be sure to backup before using it! Messing with your boot is always risky.
 
Last edited:

-Minsc-

Member
Woot! Welcome!

Mint comes built in with a boot repair app, have you tried it? You need to boot from a mint live USB to use it, I think.

Be sure to backup before using it! Messing with your boot is always risky.
Cool. Will give it a try when 20.2 stable drops. Just the hard drive or is there something else you are recommending me to back up?
 

-Minsc-

Member
What do you mean, like external drives?
I'm honestly not sure myself. There's nothing of real importance on that machine so I'll just go a clean install.

https://linuxhint.com/linux_mint_boot_repair/ Lots of guides out there to give me a hand.

I remember back six or seven years ago I attempted to triple boot OS X, Windows and Linux Mint. Did something with rEFInd. Always wondered if I screwed something up. Didn't have much issue booting OS X or Windows, just Linux.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
I'm honestly not sure myself. There's nothing of real importance on that machine so I'll just go a clean install.

https://linuxhint.com/linux_mint_boot_repair/ Lots of guides out there to give me a hand.

I remember back six or seven years ago I attempted to triple boot OS X, Windows and Linux Mint. Did something with rEFInd. Always wondered if I screwed something up. Didn't have much issue booting OS X or Windows, just Linux.

Alright! Clean install it is!
 

Maiden Voyage

Gold™ Member
 

Unknown?

Member
The wait is long but I'm finally upgrading my old laptop to a Star Labs Star Book MKV. Supposedly will be shipping by the end of this month.
 
Would you guys recommend Mint for a complete newb?
Pop OS is based on Ubuntu and comes with AMD/NVIDIA graphics drivers alongside other drivers preinstalled.

It's made by System76, a company that builds computers with Linux preinstalled (which they've been doing for quite a while now). I'd recommend the 21.10 version though because AFAIK the 21.04 LTS version still has a bug where your windows will disappear all of a sudden, nothing will launch and you have to restart to get it to work again.
 

ThatGamingDude

I am a virgin
Pop OS is based on Ubuntu and comes with AMD/NVIDIA graphics drivers alongside other drivers preinstalled.

It's made by System76, a company that builds computers with Linux preinstalled (which they've been doing for quite a while now). I'd recommend the 21.10 version though because AFAIK the 21.04 LTS version still has a bug where your windows will disappear all of a sudden, nothing will launch and you have to restart to get it to work again.
Though something bugs me about packaging GPU drivers in
sudo apt update nvidia-driver-### every fucking time

Sure sure you should update the distro but sheesh, sometimes I want to quick deploy, test something then dump it lol
 
I compiled Ungoogled Chromium after switching to Arch and it's fucked up now. The shit lags way too much and now I can't right click for the menu.

Yay.
 

billyxci

Permabanned.
sorry for bumping it. with the new ubuntu i want to give it another shot. i'm on windows 11 now which requires secure boot. is there any issues dual booting ubuntu with windows 11?
 

Raploz

Member
sorry for bumping it. with the new ubuntu i want to give it another shot. i'm on windows 11 now which requires secure boot. is there any issues dual booting ubuntu with windows 11?
No. Ubuntu supports secure boot. The only thing you need to keep in mind is that you should always install Windows first and Ubuntu last, but since you already have Windows that won't be a problem. Also make sure you have free unpartitioned space for the install. If you install it to another drive entirely, you can also choose which system to boot from your UEFI's boot selection screen. If you don't like it you can try giving some of its flavours a try (Kubuntu, Xubuntu, Lubuntu, etc).

If I were you I'd try it in a virtual machine first.
 
Last edited:
I'm considering switching to linux since windows keeps getting worse and more annoying, more recently they will require a microsoft account even for windows 11 pro users. I am looking at ubuntu since that is what I started and used back in the mid 00's. Is ubuntu still good?
 

Raploz

Member
I'm considering switching to linux since windows keeps getting worse and more annoying, more recently they will require a microsoft account even for windows 11 pro users. I am looking at ubuntu since that is what I started and used back in the mid 00's. Is ubuntu still good?
Yes, it's still good but not perfect. The biggest complaint from users nowadays is that they're now using their own format for installing apps called Snap, and most apps take a long time to open after a cold boot. You could have to wait up to 10 seconds to open Firefox even on an NVME drive. Of course, after opening it once it would open quickly until the next reboot. If you can deal with that, then it's a good option still.
 

billyxci

Permabanned.
well i tried installing ubuntu and to be fair it's much better than it was last time i tried it. however, i had some difficulty installing some programs. at first i did a normal installation but there was a lot of programs i didn't need. i tried uninstalling them but kept getting errors that they weren't installed lol. so i reinstalled ubuntu and did a minimal installation and tried installing stuff myself. it took me about 15-20 minutes to get spotify installed and my VPN straight up wouldn't work.

what's the difference between snap and flatpak apps? i don't know why but i thought flatpak was better so i tried installing that. most apps i tried installing didn't work and i couldn't figure out how to remove the flatpak store.

if i can't simply install apps then it's really no good to me. also i do a bit of photo editing. i tried GIMP but i'm too used to Affinity Photo. i gave up and removed ubuntu and of course it fucked up my entire drive so i had to reinstall W11 from scratch. i was up to about 3AM trying to restore my PC. i keep wanting to go to linux but i never learn cause something always goes wrong and i need to wipe my entire PC. i hate windows for many reasons but i always go back to it because it "Just works".

i've tried running in a VM before so i'll probably do that again and try spend more time learning how this all works.
 
Last edited:

Unknown?

Member
well i tried installing ubuntu and to be fair it's much better than it was last time i tried it. however, i had some difficulty installing some programs. at first i did a normal installation but there was a lot of programs i didn't need. i tried uninstalling them but kept getting errors that they weren't installed lol. so i reinstalled ubuntu and did a minimal installation and tried installing stuff myself. it took me about 15-20 minutes to get spotify installed and my VPN straight up wouldn't work.

what's the difference between snap and flatpak apps? i don't know why but i thought flatpak was better so i tried installing that. most apps i tried installing didn't work and i couldn't figure out how to remove the flatpak store.

if i can't simply install apps then it's really no good to me. also i do a bit of photo editing. i tried GIMP but i'm too used to Affinity Photo. i gave up and removed ubuntu and of course it fucked up my entire drive so i had to reinstall W11 from scratch. i was up to about 3AM trying to restore my PC. i keep wanting to go to linux but i never learn cause something always goes wrong and i need to wipe my entire PC. i hate windows for many reasons but i always go back to it because it "Just works".

i've tried running in a VM before so i'll probably do that again and try spend more time learning how this all works.
Get a " made for Linux" PC and you won't have any problems. Try Mint or Zorin OS instead of Ubuntu and see if those work better.

Anyone here use Qubes?
 
Last edited:

Raploz

Member
well i tried installing ubuntu and to be fair it's much better than it was last time i tried it. however, i had some difficulty installing some programs. at first i did a normal installation but there was a lot of programs i didn't need. i tried uninstalling them but kept getting errors that they weren't installed lol. so i reinstalled ubuntu and did a minimal installation and tried installing stuff myself. it took me about 15-20 minutes to get spotify installed and my VPN straight up wouldn't work.

what's the difference between snap and flatpak apps? i don't know why but i thought flatpak was better so i tried installing that. most apps i tried installing didn't work and i couldn't figure out how to remove the flatpak store.

if i can't simply install apps then it's really no good to me. also i do a bit of photo editing. i tried GIMP but i'm too used to Affinity Photo. i gave up and removed ubuntu and of course it fucked up my entire drive so i had to reinstall W11 from scratch. i was up to about 3AM trying to restore my PC. i keep wanting to go to linux but i never learn cause something always goes wrong and i need to wipe my entire PC. i hate windows for many reasons but i always go back to it because it "Just works".

i've tried running in a VM before so i'll probably do that again and try spend more time learning how this all works.
Snaps and Flatpaks are sandboxed app formats and are competitors. Snaps are made by Canonical and Flatpaks by RedHat/IBM. For the end-user, the differences shouldn't matter and you should stick to what the built-in app store offers.

Ubuntu doesn't officially support Flatpaks (although you can try installing it). You should stick to Snaps that are available in the built-in store. In that store, you should also see Spotify, so I don't know why it would take so long to install.

Some built-in programs are essential to the system, so you shouldn't try to remove them.

As for the VPN not working, I don't use one, so I can't comment on that.

One thing to keep in mind is that optimally every app you want should come from the Ubuntu Store. Forget about downloading stuff off of the internet unless you trust the source and know what you're doing.

If you want to find alternatives to the software you want, a good website is alternativeto.net. Here are some results for alternatives to Affinity Photo: https://alternativeto.net/software/affinity-photo/?platform=linux
 
Yes, it's still good but not perfect. The biggest complaint from users nowadays is that they're now using their own format for installing apps called Snap, and most apps take a long time to open after a cold boot. You could have to wait up to 10 seconds to open Firefox even on an NVME drive. Of course, after opening it once it would open quickly until the next reboot. If you can deal with that, then it's a good option still.
You mentioned apps. I was curious if there are apps and "programs" like windows 10?
 

Raploz

Member
You mentioned apps. I was curious if there are apps and "programs" like windows 10?
It's just that I'm used to using the word "apps", but they're programs like any other. As I said, the best thing you can do is to stick to the app/program store within the system, and not download stuff off of the internet like you'd do on Windows. Unless it's a big program like Chrome that is well supported, the rest can be complicated to install if you don't know what you're doing.

If you want to give it a try I recommend testing in a virtual machine first. If you don't like the user interface, you can try other official versions like Kubuntu (second most used version and looks more like Windows), Xubuntu (for older PC, looks more like Mac), etc.
 
It's just that I'm used to using the word "apps", but they're programs like any other. As I said, the best thing you can do is to stick to the app/program store within the system, and not download stuff off of the internet like you'd do on Windows. Unless it's a big program like Chrome that is well supported, the rest can be complicated to install if you don't know what you're doing.

If you want to give it a try I recommend testing in a virtual machine first. If you don't like the user interface, you can try other official versions like Kubuntu (second most used version and looks more like Windows), Xubuntu (for older PC, looks more like Mac), etc.
I would prefer downloading from the internet, but if it's a native program then it will be simple correct? When you mentioned that it can be complicated do you mean programs that arent native to linux?
 

Raploz

Member
I would prefer downloading from the internet, but if it's a native program then it will be simple correct? When you mentioned that it can be complicated do you mean programs that arent native to linux?
No, not only programs not native to Linux. This requires a bit of an extensive explanation, which should be irrelevant to the end user as long as they don't try to install random stuff from the internet. Anyway, I'll try to explain the complicated nature of different program formats below.

Historically, Linux has worked differently than Windows when it comes to the way you install programs. Linux makes the assumption you'd get your software from your distribution (like Ubuntu) official sources, and because of that, the dependencies on Linux (which on Windows are known as the .dll files) usually do not come with the program you want to install. On Ubuntu, for instance, the default program format was for a long time the .deb. (there's also .rpm for RedHat based distributions. .rpm files are incompatible with Ubuntu). Usually, a .deb is made with a specific Ubuntu version in mind, but since it doesn't come with the dependencies built-in, the system tries to install them when you install the program. The problem is: since the version of Ubuntu the .deb targets might be a different one than what you're running, sometimes the system cannot find the right version of the dependencies to install. That means even if the program seemingly gets installed, when you open it it won't work because it's missing the correct files.

You may also find programs online that weren't even compiled yet. Usually the ones you find in random GitHub repositories. Those need technical knowledge to be compiled from source and you'll need to provide the dependencies manually.

On Ubuntu specifically, there's also PPAs, which are basically private repositories made by third-parties with the right .deb and dependencies. To use these, you'll need to enter into the command line and will also need to trust the source. It's not impossible to install a malicious program this way if you're not careful, so it's not recommended to do it if you don't know what you're doing.

Anyway, to solve that mess with the billion ways you can install a program in different distributions, Linux projects made three different "universal" program formats (because why agree on having one when you can have an extra three competing options? 😂):

Snaps: Ubuntu has been trying to push the Snap format within their ecosystem. Snap is a centralized source of available programs for Ubuntu. You cannot download a .snap from a random site on the internet. You can only get them from the built-in Snap Store in Ubuntu or browse them from https://snapcraft.io/. When selecting a program there while running Ubuntu, the built-in store will be opened. This format is run in a sandbox for extra security. This means sometimes you might not be able to access something in the system. You should be able to change permissions within the Ubuntu's Snap Store.

Flatpak: This format is made by Red Hat/IBM and DOES NOT work on Ubuntu by default. This is almost the same as Snaps, with the difference your programs are available in https://flathub.org. It competes with Snaps and works with most distributions that are not Ubuntu. This format is also sandboxed for extra security. Due to that, It might prevent the program from accessing some folders. To remedy that, you can install Flatseal and change permissions. Since we're focusing on Ubuntu here, this is not particularly relevant, but I wanted to throw this info here in case someone needs it.

.appimage: This format is made by the community and is the equivalent of a zipped
portable program on Windows. It includes most of the dependencies and runs in most distributions, but it has some drawbacks:

1. It doesn't get automatically updated
2. You cannot install them. They're like .exes in a folder. You can double-click on them to run but they won't be added to the menu or desktop automatically. You have to rely on third-party tools or add a shortcut manually.
3. They come with most dependencies built-in, but not all! Sometimes a program will fail to open depending on your distribution.

.appimage files can be downloaded from the internet.


That is all to say if you do try Linux, you need to leave behind the assumptions you have about how a system should work. If you're not a technically inclined user that wants to get your hands dirty and waste time tracking down dependencies and running command line prompts, you should treat Linux like iOS and download programs only from the app center. When you download something off of the internet you can't be sure it will work or not. Since there's so many combinations of Linux distributions and formats, it's really hard to have any random program work with every distribution out there.

The only big program I know that works fine when you download the .deb is Google Chrome, which is not available from the Snap Store at the moment.
 
Last edited:
No, not only programs not native to Linux. This requires a bit of an extensive explanation, which should be irrelevant to the end user as long as they don't try to install random stuff from the internet. Anyway, I'll try to explain the complicated nature of different program formats below.

Historically, Linux has worked differently than Windows when it comes to the way you install programs. Linux makes the assumption you'd get your software from your distribution (like Ubuntu) official sources, and because of that, the dependencies on Linux (which on Windows are known as the .dll files) usually do not come with the program you want to install. On Ubuntu, for instance, the default program format was for a long time the .deb. (there's also .rpm for RedHat based distributions. .rpm files are incompatible with Ubuntu). Usually, a .deb is made with a specific Ubuntu version in mind, but since it doesn't come with the dependencies built-in, the system tries to install them when you install the program. The problem is: since the version of Ubuntu the .deb targets might be a different one than what you're running, sometimes the system cannot find the right version of the dependencies to install. That means even if the program seemingly gets installed, when you open it it won't work because it's missing the correct files.

You may also find programs online that weren't even compiled yet. Usually the ones you find in random GitHub repositories. Those need technical knowledge to be compiled from source and you'll need to provide the dependencies manually.

On Ubuntu specifically, there's also PPAs, which are basically private repositories made by third-parties with the right .deb and dependencies. To use these, you'll need to enter into the command line and will also need to trust the source. It's not impossible to install a malicious program this way if you're not careful, so it's not recommended to do it if you don't know what you're doing.

Anyway, to solve that mess with the billion ways you can install a program in different distributions, Linux projects made three different "universal" program formats (because why agree on having one when you can have an extra three competing options? 😂):

Snaps: Ubuntu has been trying to push the Snap format within their ecosystem. Snap is a centralized source of available programs for Ubuntu. You cannot download a .snap from a random site on the internet. You can only get them from the built-in Snap Store in Ubuntu or browse them from https://snapcraft.io/. When selecting a program there while running Ubuntu, the built-in store will be opened. This format is run in a sandbox for extra security. This means sometimes you might not be able to access something in the system. You should be able to change permissions within the Ubuntu's Snap Store.

Flatpak: This format is made by Red Hat/IBM and DOES NOT work on Ubuntu by default. This is almost the same as Snaps, with the difference your programs are available in https://flathub.org. It competes with Snaps and works with most distributions that are not Ubuntu. This format is also sandboxed for extra security. Due to that, It might prevent the program from accessing some folders. To remedy that, you can install Flatseal and change permissions. Since we're focusing on Ubuntu here, this is not particularly relevant, but I wanted to throw this info here in case someone needs it.

.appimage: This format is made by the community and is the equivalent of a zipped
portable program on Windows. It includes most of the dependencies and runs in most distributions, but it has some drawbacks:

1. It doesn't get automatically updated
2. You cannot install them. They're like .exes in a folder. You can double-click on them to run but they won't be added to the menu or desktop automatically. You have to rely on third-party tools or add a shortcut manually.
3. They come with most dependencies built-in, but not all! Sometimes a program will fail to open depending on your distribution.

.appimage files can be downloaded from the internet.


That is all to say if you do try Linux, you need to leave behind the assumptions you have about how a system should work. If you're not a technically inclined user that wants to get your hands dirty and waste time tracking down dependencies and running command line prompts, you should treat Linux like iOS and download programs only from the app center. When you download something off of the internet you can't be sure it will work or not. Since there's so many combinations of Linux distributions and formats, it's really hard to have any random program work with every distribution out there.

The only big program I know that works fine when you download the .deb is Google Chrome, which is not available from the Snap Store at the moment.
cool thanks. but wouldn't you know if it will work by the website mentioning it? for example gog games, on the specs section you can see ubuntu,etc so you can download those games from the website.
 

ThatGamingDude

I am a virgin
cool thanks. but wouldn't you know if it will work by the website mentioning it? for example gog games, on the specs section you can see ubuntu,etc so you can download those games from the website.
Not entirely; GOG is meant for consumer use, and for their submissions on Linux compatible games they hold a standard

"The guide is written with the desired “click and run” user experience in mind — this means that no additional steps are required from the user to make the game work.

Before submitting a Linux build to us for release, we strongly recommend that you test your build using a freshly installed Ubuntu 16.04 or 18.04 system (the GOG supported distributions). This will not only prevent the occurrence of many of the issues highlighted in this article, but will also ensure that your game is truly distribution platform agnostic."

Some (If not most) FOSS out there is meant for the person to have SOME common knowledge on how it's built and what it takes to resolve a problem, or at least how to use GoogleFu to start tracking it down
For instance if you're using some off the wall hacky GPU driver that bypasses bitcoin mining restrictions and your game won't load, might want to know enough to get that working, eh?

UNIX systems in general really do have some backing to the "git gud," when it comes down to it

SOURCE ON GOG: https://docs.gog.com/linux-guidelines/
 
Last edited:

Raploz

Member
This seems like big news.

And it is, but it will still take some time for us, home Linux users, to see the results. Anyway, that is absolutely great news. One of the biggest complaints people have nowadays with Linux is how the proprietary Nvidia driver always seems to cause problems, not only for users but for developers as well. It will be possible to have open drivers like Intel and AMD, and open-source developers will now be able to fix stuff instead of waiting for NVidia to do their job. Mind you they'll keep offering their proprietary drivers, but now the community will be able to make good open-source drivers as well.
 
Top Bottom