Game demos and restrictions

[pramath]

The power of game demos is astounding. Whereas I feel the quality of game demos has degraded incredibly over the past few years, two recent demos- Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning and Resident Evil: Revelations- made me go from iffy and wait and watch to 'holy shit, day one purchase.' Amalur was, in any case, a game I would have bought, since I love Big Huge Games. Revelations on the other hand was a game I was planning on sitting out (especially because of the $50 price), but god damn has the demo got me sold.

With that said, the true topic of my discussion here is pertinent given recent restrictions on game demos (particularly Nintendo and their ridiculous implementation of play limits on game demos). It was something that was brought into even clearer contrast given how liberal the Amalur demo was and how restricted the Revelations demo was. Both were great, by the way- but both were approached in very different ways.

Game demos are powerful marketing tools, that much is clear. Over the years, however, they've been greatly degraded. Where once long ago I got a massive portion of the game to play without restrictions, or at least an experience tailor made for the demo, today I get a tiny portion of the campaign that is oftentimes (in Nintendo's case, at least) limited in the number of times I can play it. Now, not looking at it from a company's point of view (because we know there can be multiple 'justifications' as to why companies are doing this), and purely from a consumer's point of view... what is your stance on game demos and restrictions? Do you think it matters? Do you think it is justifiable? Do you actually LIKE there being restrictions?

For a game like Revelations, I doubt I'd play the demo 30 times... but what if there were a Smash Bros. demo tomorrow with 30 play counts? I'd be out of it by the end of the day!

As far as I am concerned, limits on game demos are perfectly inexcusable, but I wanted to know what all of you had to say on the matter.

 

[abstract alien]

If the demo is already in retail stores and can be bought, I'm for a 3 play limit. Support the game if you like it.

If it's a pre-release demo, then I think a generous 30 limit play count is more than enough to see if you like it or not. A smash bros limit would make me hype out of fucking control and yearn for the game even more once that last play count was hit.

For...I guess. Go ahead and kill me, if I'm not already dead.

 

[Ranger X]

I think that limits on demos (if tweaked right) are an absolute must. A demo exist so you can try and see if the game is good enough for you to BUY. What play limits gets out of the equations are people that are happy with the demo and not buying the game. Now its hard to tell if there's alot of people like that or not but let me bet those people are enough of them in order for limits on demo to be implemented. Some people don't have the message clear, a demo is to try and see if you want to buy. Nothing else.

 

[Anth0ny]

If they released a Smash Bros demo with a play limit... I wouldn't quit out of the demo until the game is released.

 

[alr1ght]

I don't think I've ever played a demo more than 5 times, but to limit them is fucking dumb.

 

[Emitan]

If they released a Smash Bros demo with a play limit... I wouldn't quit out of the demo until the game is released.

I wouldn't quit out either way. There is nothing more important in the gaming world to me than a new Smash Bros.

 

[Optical_Matrix]

While I think that a play limit is ridiculous in this day and age, so long as the full retail game isn't so far away from release that you use up all your plays weeks before the game is even out, arguing against the play limit is tenuous.

Resident Evil Revelations comes out here in the UK on Friday and so far I've used up about 8-9 of my plays. I'll probably stop playing the demo within the next couple of days and wait for the game to just release so in the end, cumulatively I would have only played through about half of the limit. It's not so bad, when you think of it in that respect.

 

[sixteen-bit]

If they released a Smash Bros demo with a play limit... I wouldn't quit out of the demo until the game is released.

Buy a seperate, dedicated smash demo console you can leave on for years at a time.

 

[Franklinator]

Even though I think the 30 play limit is more than enough on RE, I wish the limit didn't exist at all

 

[Jedi2016]

Demos, by their nature, have to have some sort of limitation. But, I don't think limiting it to a certain number of playthroughs is the way to do it. A demo should be a teaser.. just a small taste, with a promise of more. Something to whet your appetite and get you to buy the game. Just slapping the first level of a game onto a disc doesn't really do the trick. The restriction should be integral to the demo itself, and not just an artificial one tacked on at the last minute.

Just keep it simple. Wipeout HD on PS3, for example.. one track, one vehicle, one race type, but you could play it as many times as you wanted. And it got you wanting more.. you wanted more tracks, more vehicles, more race types and modes. And so you buy the game. Racing games have an advantage by virtue of their somewhat "modular" design, but you get the idea.

I don't like timed demos, either.. "You can do anything you want.. for three minutes". I can see that at a game show like E3 or TGS, but for a public-release demo?

 

[MrGreencastle]

It doesn't bother me too much, as long as the limit doesn't restrict my ability to get a feel for the overall game. It's a demo, after all. I normally don't play demos through more than once or twice, so a 30 play limit seems pretty fair, in my opinion.

Just keep it simple. Wipeout HD on PS3, for example.. one track, one vehicle, one race type, but you could play it as many times as you wanted. And it got you wanting more.. you wanted more tracks, more vehicles, more race types and modes. And so you buy the game. Racing games have an advantage by virtue of their somewhat "modular" design, but you get the idea.

Don't you think that there may be some people that don't want that extra track/vehicle/gametype or what have you? Imagine console/PC gaming adopting the "lite/free" system from iOS and Android gaming.

 

[Omega.Blaze]

It baffles me how anyone can pretend to be "upset" about the 30 plays limit demo. It's almost impossible to believe that anyone, ANYONE is going to play the same exact tiny portion of a game more than a couple times.... and if you do want to play it that much, then isn't it better to just buy the thing?

 

[StreetsAhead]

With that said, the true topic of my discussion here is pertinent given recent restrictions on game demos (particularly Nintendo and their retarded implementation of play limits on game demos). It was something that was brought into even clearer contrast given how liberal the Amalur demo was and how restricted the Revelations demo was. Both were great, by the way- but both were approached in very different ways.

Game demos are powerful marketing tools, that much is clear. Over the years, however, they've been greatly degraded. Where once long ago I got a massive portion of the game to play without restrictions, or at least an experience tailor made for the demo, today I get a tiny portion of the campaign that is oftentimes (in Nintendo's case, at least) limited in the number of times I can play it. Now, not looking at it from a company's point of view (because we know there can be multiple 'justifications' as to why companies are doing this), and purely from a consumer's point of view... what is your stance on game demos and restrictions? Do you think it matters? Do you think it is justifiable? Do you actually LIKE there being restrictions?

Ignoring your ignorant (and frankly offensive) use of the word retarded, as a consumer, while I don't like it, I understand that a) I'm getting something for free and b) the company wants me to purchase the game. The demo is there to provide a taste of the game - ideally just enough to spark my interest, but not enough to fully scratch my itch. In fact, the Theatrythm, puyopuyo, and Rhythm Thief demos have done just that - I've gone from mildly curious to possible purchases after only a few tries of the demo each. The restriction has made me actively consider whether I want to purchase these games. I don't like the restrictions, but knowing that eventually I will need to make a decision to purchase the games or not is not a bad thing, rather than continuing to replay the demo indefinitely.

On the flip side, the MGS3D demo has made me completely reconsider ever buying the game, even second hand.

For a game like Revelations, I doubt I'd play the demo 30 times... but what if there were a Smash Bros. demo tomorrow with 30 play counts? I'd be out of it by the end of the day!

As far as I am concerned, limits on game demos are perfectly inexcusable, but I wanted to know what all of you had to say on the matter.

A 'play' is not like 'one round/battle/song' in Nintendo's system, but a boot up of the demo. You can get dozens of hours out of each demo (particularly the more arcade-y ones, with random content/replay value) by simply not shutting the demo down. Unless you were constantly flicking between the SSB demo and another game you'd be either foolhardy or ignorant to run out of plays in a single day, but thanks for the strawman.

I don't see a problem with restrictions on demos at all - they are free content for me, designed to help me make purchases and if companies feel that they need to be restricted, I'm ok with that.

 

[The Faceless Master]

play limits on demos has to be the most ridiculous thing i've seen this gen.

and considering this gen, that's saying a lot.

 

[abstract alien]

Just keep it simple. Wipeout HD on PS3, for example.. one track, one vehicle, one race type, but you could play it as many times as you wanted. And it got you wanting more.. you wanted more tracks, more vehicles, more race types and modes. And so you buy the game. Racing games have an advantage by virtue of their somewhat "modular" design, but you get the idea.

I don't like timed demos, either.. "You can do anything you want.. for three minutes". I can see that at a game show like E3 or TGS, but for a public-release demo?

This very example had the exact opposite reaction from me. I played it, and never cared to by the game because I was VERY content with what I had in the demo. I only have the full game because Sony game it to me for free. Other wise, I would still have the demo and be playing that from time to time. I would have probably bought it if I couldn't play it anymore though.

 

[pramath]

Ignoring your ignorant (and frankly offensive) use of the word retarded, as a consumer, while I don't like it, I understand that a) I'm getting something for free and b) the company wants me to purchase the game. The demo is there to provide a taste of the game - ideally just enough to spark my interest, but not enough to fully scratch my itch. In fact, the Theatrythm, puyopuyo, and Rhythm Thief demos have done just that - I've gone from mildly curious to possible purchases after only a few tries of the demo each. The restriction has made me actively consider whether I want to purchase these games. I don't like the restrictions, but knowing that eventually I will need to make a decision to purchase the games or not is not a bad thing, rather than continuing to replay the demo indefinitely.

On the flip side, the MGS3D demo has made me completely reconsider ever buying the game, even second hand.





A 'play' is not like 'one round/battle/song' in Nintendo's system, but a boot up of the demo. You can get dozens of hours out of each demo (particularly the more arcade-y ones, with random content/replay value) by simply not shutting the demo down. Unless you were constantly flicking between the SSB demo and another game you'd be either foolhardy or ignorant to run out of plays in a single day, but thanks for the strawman.

I don't see a problem with restrictions on demos at all - they are free content for me, designed to help me make purchases and if companies feel that they need to be restricted, I'm ok with that.

You are right about my use of the word. I removed it and edited it, and I greatly apologize.

I can understand that demos are supposed to be, by their very nature, restricted. But they already are. Look at the Revelations demo (again). It gives you what, one level to play through? That's enough of a restriction. I play through it, and if I like what I play, and I want to play more, I buy the game. Why restrict my ability to play the same, rather short section of the game to just 30 times however?

And yes, I know what a play is like, I know how it is counted. However, what makes you think the Smash demo is the ONLY thing I'd be playing? I mean, maybe I want to play a round of Mario Kart? I quit Smash Bros., and that's one play gone. It's not feasible for me to leave my system on the Smash demo forever, you know.

 

[Emitan]

It's not feasible for me to leave my system on the Smash demo forever, you know.

Dude. It's Smash Bros

 

[StreetsAhead]

You are right about my use of the word. I removed it and edited it, and I greatly apologize.

Cheers.

I can understand that demos are supposed to be, by their very nature, restricted. But they already are. Look at the Revelations demo (again). It gives you what, one level to play through? That's enough of a restriction. I play through it, and if I like what I play, and I want to play more, I buy the game. Why restrict my ability to play the same, rather short section of the game to just 30 times however?

I think it's just that Nintendo requires demos on 3DS to have a play limit and therefore that limit is set to the max (30). I think the limit is especially useful (maybe even implemented) for games like Theatrythm where getting an A on hard on the one song they provide could potentially take a fair few plays to achieve (especially if you're like me and suck at rhythm games). I just don't see why it's such a big deal for games like RE:R though; as you said it's only a small section anyway and if you like it you'll buy the game anyway.

And yes, I know what a play is like, I know how it is counted. However, what makes you think the Smash demo is the ONLY thing I'd be playing? I mean, maybe I want to play a round of Mario Kart? I quit Smash Bros., and that's one play gone. It's not feasible for me to leave my system on the Smash demo forever, you know.

Well, you did say you'd use them all up in one day, which seemed excessive. You don't have to leave it on forever, but the limited nature makes you choose - is MK so important I'm willing to 'waste' a play switching out. etc

 

[Sophia]

Look at the Revelations demo (again). It gives you what, one level to play through? That's enough of a restriction.

The stage itself is pretty painfully short as far as I can tell. Most of it's length comes from it's difficulty and the fact that they give you two settings to try it on.

 

[glaurung]

Limiting the number of times you can play a demo - a demonstration - is retarded. Go ahead and call it a trial, have it include the whole game and make it purchasable via a buy button inside the trial then.

Counting down the number of times you activate the demo is simply bad business and bad blood.

 

[botty]

Not to justify play limits, but has there ever been a demo that needed to be played more than 30 times?

Although I do recall some playstation demos that I enjoyed numerous times.

 

[glaurung]

Not to justify play limits, but has there ever been a demo that needed to be played more than 30 times?

Although I do recall some playstation demos that I enjoyed numerous times.

Crackdown demo. I also played the Red Faction Guerrilla demo more times than I can care to remember (the full game was kind of a letdown after that).

 

[abstract alien]

Crackdown demo. I also played the Red Faction Guerrilla demo more times than I can care to remember (the full game was kind of a letdown after that).

A letdown because you destroyed the demo, or because the game just didn't hold up? Or both?

 

[Baconsammy]

It baffles me how anyone can pretend to be "upset" about the 30 plays limit demo. It's almost impossible to believe that anyone, ANYONE is going to play the same exact tiny portion of a game more than a couple times.... and if you do want to play it that much, then isn't it better to just buy the thing?

If no one would ever play it 30 times, then there's no need to put a limit on it.

 

[rpmurphy]

The best demos are still the kind where Gamestop or wherever puts the full game into the system. No watered-down demo that keeps recycling its tiny bit of content.

 

[radioheadrule83]

This has been done to death here:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=459540

I don't really think this needed one of your wordy, albeit thoughtful, threads.

Lots of people disagree on the matter. Frankly it makes no odds to me how the publishers handle it, because I've never been one to be content playing a demo hundreds of times -- I always play it a few times and know quite quickly whether or not I'm interested. However, there are people out there, and in that very thread I just linked to - who will admit to spamming a demo hundreds of times for years, and never buying the actual game. For those kind of instances, limitations make total sense.

It's also worth noting that as long as you don't exit the demo, and you utilise the game-suspend or sleep mode, 1 of your 30 loads of the Resident Evil demo can encompass countless hours of dying and restarting as much as you want. One GAFfer played the demo for over four hours on his first play.

 

[glaurung]

A letdown because you destroyed the demo, or because the game just didn't hold up? Or both?

The demo section was a condensed little wrecking scenario to steal that walker, followed by an on-rails shooter section.

This was the best bits of the game, crammed into 20 minutes. Once the full game was released and I played it, I realized that it was the same as the demo, but with massive gaps in the action. Kind of like too much marmalade scraped over too much toast. I don't know if I am making sense here, it's 5 AM and I should be sleeping.

 

[botty]

The demo section was a condensed little wrecking scenario to steal that walker, followed by an on-rails shooter section.

This was the best bits of the game, crammed into 20 minutes. Once the full game was released and I played it, I realized that it was the same as the demo, but with massive gaps in the action. Kind of like too much marmalade scraped over too much toast. I don't know if I am making sense here, it's 5 AM and I should be sleeping.

That actually makes perfect sense.

"stares absently at my copy of Red Faction Guerrilla"

 

[Anth0ny]

Not to justify play limits, but has there ever been a demo that needed to be played more than 30 times?

Although I do recall some playstation demos that I enjoyed numerous times.

Not gonna lie, I probably played the RE4 demo 30+ times when I imported it from Japan.

But that was released with Famitsu on October 29, 2004. Biohazard 4 was released in Japan on January 27, 2005, almost 3 months later.

 

[abstract alien]

The demo section was a condensed little wrecking scenario to steal that walker, followed by an on-rails shooter section.

This was the best bits of the game, crammed into 20 minutes. Once the full game was released and I played it, I realized that it was the same as the demo, but with massive gaps in the action. Kind of like too much marmalade scraped over too much toast. I don't know if I am making sense here, it's 5 AM and I should be sleeping.

Nah, I gotcha. Too much filler for your tastes.

 

[Thoraxes]

If I played a demo enough to completely use its limit, chances are I should stop beating around the bush and buy the game because I probably really like it.

 

[Baconsammy]

If I played a demo enough to completely use its limit, chances are I should stop beating around the bush and buy the game because I probably really like it.

I guess I should go out and buy Kingdoms of Amalur tonight then.

 

[thetrin]

I guess I should go out and buy Kingdoms of Amalur tonight then.

You should...but it's not out until the 7th.

 

[pramath]

You should...but it's not out until the 7th.

I think that's the point he's making...

 

[Sean]

I don't really see the issue when the restriction is 30 plays. If you love the demo so much that you play it over and over again 30 times, just buy the game.

Look at all the people who were still playing Halo PC demo years after release - one multiplayer map (Blood Gulch) was enough for them.

 

[Terrell]

Some games are more suited to demos with play limits than others. But having a game-to-game analysis of which ones should and shouldn't have a demo limit isn't feasible. So, in the interest of fairness, they ALL have one to varying degrees.
There's also the matter of players fatiguing themselves on a demo and losing interest in the full product.

 

[zoukka]

It's just a goddamn demo, if you are troubled by the fact that you can't play it over 30 times, then you are a hardcore minority.

 

[WrenchNinja]

I have played demos a lot, yeah more than 30 times, when I was a kid. I couldn't afford every game I liked, but when I could, you bet your ass I ended up buying the game of the demo I had played so many times over. I just think these play limits are just a screw you to kids who cannot buy every game immediately, but I'm not going to pretend many here understand where I'm coming from here. So whatever, I can see Microsoft and Sony doing the same thing and I know that limit is going to get lower and lower with publishers. Ace Combat levels, yeah.

 

[Peagles]

I think limiting the number of plays is a bit much. I mean, they're usually limited in some other way (time limit per play, for example) so continuing to add restrictions is just annoying.

That and I'm so anal about my 3DS that I feel like I shouldn't use up any plays, that I should keep it at 30 forever so it's still "new".

 

[Emitan]

I played the Star Wars Battlefront demo probably 100 times at least. And then I bought the game day one and play it thousands of times. TOTALLY RUINED EVERYTHING WITH THAT UNLIMITED DEMO

 

[BGBW]

play limits on demos has to be the most ridiculous thing i've seen this gen.

and considering this gen, that's saying a lot.

This gen? Shareware and limited demos are ancient. Rather have 30 plays at my leisure than 30 days.

 

[Papercuts]

This gen? Shareware and limited demos are ancient. Rather have 30 plays at my leisure than 30 days.

Yes, demos that have a natural expriation date are the absolute worst. I'd even take 3 plays over 30 days.

 

[benjipwns]

Not to justify play limits, but has there ever been a demo that needed to be played more than 30 times?

Although I do recall some playstation demos that I enjoyed numerous times.

Last I knew, hundreds of people still play the Halo PC and Battlefield 2 demos online.

 

[Raonak]

demo limits are stupid.

 

[dethforce]

play limits and time limits are stupid.

recently, i tried the hot pursuit demo i downloaded ages ago and it didnt work. so i said, shove it and didnt buy the game - even for cheap.

on the other hand, the kingdom of amalur demo sold me on the game. before it, i was on the fence, but after the lengthy demo, i was in the day 1 boat.

also, i dont want do dowanload 1-2GB just to play the demo two times for 10 minutes.

 

[MLH]

If no one would ever play it 30 times, then there's no need to put a limit on it.

And if someone were to get 30 plays out of a demo, don't you think they are getting too much entertainment out of it? Thus the need for a limit.

 

[honeymustardn]

I 100%'d Skyward Sword and only have a play count of 16.

 

[mclem]

If no one would ever play it 30 times, then there's no need to put a limit on it.

It's probably a universal rule, with "30" being the "effectively no limit" option. I suspect the rule is more to cater to Namco's desires.

 

[Bomber Bob]

Demo limits make no sense whatsoever, i guess they were invented to pleasure the publishers

 

[Erekiddo]

I don't get why this even exists. Do publishers/developers feel they're assed out of sales due to people replaying demos and not purchasing the actual product?

that makes no goddamn sense.